No personal offence taken,your right,not what we want to see from our team,with out a doubt our worst game of the season.I'm sure we have not seen the end of "Duke Basketball"this season
***DUKE VS WAKE FOREST OFFICIAL GAMEDAY THREAD***
- Thread starter krzyzewskiville
- Start date
I would take this because means we will be the three seed and unc the two....essentially playing each other a third time but this time at full strength. Most likely have to beat UNC to win ACC championship...and then you could make the case pretty strongly we would have won the regular season, won the ACC and swept the holes if Zion wasn’t hurt..
Cam will need to step up. I get it, nba drafts on potential and appeal, but I haven’t seen that “take over a game in a multifaceted way” that many one and done guys show at least at one point in the season....
Wasnt long ago, Duke won at Chapel Hill with basically 5 players so anything is possible. The way our luck is going, we may be down to 5 players before long.
I didn't see the game, did we cover that 26 point spread?
Yes. Tell your friends.I didn't see the game, did we cover that 26 point spread?
Maybe some of you have already seen it but a Duke fan put a picture up on face book.The last shot would not have counted. The scoreboard clock shows 0.00 time left and the ball is in the air. I don't know how to move it from face book to hear though. OFC
Last edited:
Did anyone else notice how RJ was scared to get fouled so he demanded the ball from Jack which caused jack to get nervous and step in. Jack has to be more conscious of where he is and stay poised but RJ is really scared of the line right now. That’s not good because he spends the most time at the line. His free throw shooting and Cam getting in foul trouble are reasons that game was so close. Coaching was pretty bad too. I hope we just figure out a gameplan for Saturday. We just can’t get swept. Not to them.
Also something that didn't get talked too much about was what (could have) caused that shot to roll out. Jack went to block the shot and the ball just barely nipped his finger tip. That may have been what caused the weird spin that caused it to roll out. We were lucky either way.
Agree. Cam is hurting us. For those fans that rave about the nba, and how much higher in the draft he’s going to go than so and so, that’s not helping us this season.
Sure he has a strong upside, but we need better out of him. Game winner one game, 3 first half charges in another.
We have 2 guys on this team that put points on the board. That won’t bring a title home. We need a 3rd. At this point, Alex needs more touches than Cam.
Anything can happen but I just get a terrible feeling we're going to lose by 10+, i just dont think we will have enough offense.
He may not be hitting the high expectations we have set for him, but he's not consistently hurting us. He was completely out of sorts last night in the first half. He has not improved his ability to avoid charge-like contact in the paint. He is not shooting as consistently as we would want. All fair criticisms. But if you go back to the final play last night, his length is what threw off the Childress shot. He very easily could have saved that game for us in what was a do/die moment. Again, he may not be maximizing his nba potential with us, but he's also far more productive than some others on our team.
If we're talking about the team's lack of emotion, then I agree. That's partly on coaching.
But, we played a chunk of the second half without three starters. Obviously Zion, then Marques and Tre. There weren't a breadth of options/combinations. If RJ makes his free throws, then we win rather comfortably at the end....and by comfortably, I don't mean blowout fashion, but certainly multiple possessions.
Have we heard anything injury-wise regarding Marques? Was it sickness? I know he spent a large chunk of the second half back in the locker room.
I don’t think anyone is discounting his D, but I will agree that AOC needs more offensive touches. He can shoot and isn’t afraid to attack if called on.
Thanks. I saw nothing last night on social media and K never mentioned anything in his presser. A quick online glance this morning turned nothing up, either.
I would agree that Alex could use a few more touches, but I still think Cam is clearly our best third option.
Per twitter, He took a hit to the hip and had it checked out. He was okay to play at the end and coach K decided not to reinsert him at the very end. Bolden is a presence in the paint to a greater extent both offensively and defensively than Javin and should be okay for Saturday.
It's easy to say "so and so should get more touches."
We don't really run much on offense, K isn't drawing up a play for RJ/Cam every time down the court. They just go get the ball.
If Alex needs to get more touches, than he needs to do a better job of getting himself open and go get the ball. This isn't Alex's game though, and everyone knows it, he doesn't have the ability to catch 25 feet away from the basket and go around someone.
Alex's shots are dictated by how we are being defended. RJ/Cam/Tre and of course Zion can beat their man 25 feet away, Alex's man has to help then Alex hits a dagger.
Do we really want Alex trying to beat his man 1 on 1??
We don't really run much on offense, K isn't drawing up a play for RJ/Cam every time down the court. They just go get the ball.
If Alex needs to get more touches, than he needs to do a better job of getting himself open and go get the ball. This isn't Alex's game though, and everyone knows it, he doesn't have the ability to catch 25 feet away from the basket and go around someone.
Alex's shots are dictated by how we are being defended. RJ/Cam/Tre and of course Zion can beat their man 25 feet away, Alex's man has to help then Alex hits a dagger.
Do we really want Alex trying to beat his man 1 on 1??
FWIW, I don't think Chaundee Brown's shot at the end would have counted. Pretty sure the ball was on his fingertips when the clock hit zero.
It was Marques hip. I didn’t know that last night when I first posted. That last defensive possession was definitely handled wrong. We should’ve had a big man in the game on that for rebounding/shot blocking purposes. Jack White was our biggest guy
I mean, at this point in the season, not really. But I think he’s capable of being a really good offensive player. I’m not saying you want to ISO him, but if there’s enough ball movement then yeah I think he can beat college defenders off the dribble and he’s shown flashes of making really good decisions with the ball.
Unfortunately his defense is really, really bad at times. But the frustrating part of this season and last night’s game, are that I would have hoped someone like AOC would be more than just a shooter at this point in his career.
Also RJ’s uncanny ability to throw sh*t up and have it hit off the back-rim and go in everytime is one of the most impressive things I’ve ever seen out of a college basketball player.
Yes his defense has been good most all season, yet last night he only had 2 rebounds. The problem is we don’t know which Cam will show up on the other side of the court. Our last 4 games, he is shooting 17-47, averaging 11.8 points a game. The same 4 games for Alex, he’s 16-25 for 11.5 a game.
Cam has too much potential, and for what we need, he’s not as productive as others. If everyone is honest, we “hope” he has a good offensive game, but we aren’t certain he will.
Again if we are going purely off of expectations then yes he is falling short. But if you tell me I only get to keep 1 player for the rest of the year and it is between Alex and Cam, I am taking Cam 100 out of 100 times.
No debate, Alex is shooting better than Cam right now. But those stats don't tell nearly the whole story. Although Cam can't stop charging into people, he still can create his own shot, both 3-pt and around the rim. Alex is limited in what he can create. If the scenario is someone gets an open look, right now I want Alex taking that shot. But Cam doesn't get nearly the same amount of open looks as Alex, which throws off the above stats. Defenses are focusing on Cam, not Alex. Oh and Cam is much better defender than Alex, much better.
You’re making this more complicated than it is. Cam is talented, but if Duke is going to have a serious chance at a title, he HAS to be better than he has been.
Alex is closer to being what Duke needs than Cam. But Cam has more potential. Anyone knows that. But we don’t need potential.
Yep screw the nba and potential Alex does need more touches IMO
I saw him do it twice out of 2 attempted iso drives last night so....
I would argue that you are making it too simple. I get what you are saying, Alex needs more touches. I don't disagree with that. But you also claimed in the initial response that Cam is hurting us. Last night he was in a funk, at least in the first half. But overall Cam is not hurting us. People claim that he is hurting us because he will be a top 5 NBA draft pick and he's not playing like a top 5 NBA draft pick. But he's still adding a lot to this team. We very easily see the missed shots, we don't necessarily see or remember the defensive stops or rebounds. Sorry to keep going back to this analogy, but we've connected Alex to this dialogue. If Alex is on Childress last night in that exact situation, we might be pissing and moaning a lot more today.
What I am saying is it is not so black and white, we can't just use the words he sucks or he's great, there's a huge middle ground to describe. Too often this board uses extremes in describing everything, he either sucks or he's the greatest. We either win it all or get bounced the first weekend. We can point out that Cam is missing shots or had a bad half without saying he is hurting us in such general terms.
And I don't disagree with you. Cam likely needs to play better for us to win a title. He doesn't need to carry us, but there will come a time during this year's tournament where we will need him to make shots. I am confident he will bring it, in all other areas like he has all year, but we will specifically need him to make shots too.
Please don't "ignore" him. Where would we be without this riveting discussion?
OFC
We only run perimeter plays for RJ and Cam because if that screen or set up doesn’t give them a shot then it potentially creates a slashing or favorable ISO opportunity. Even if you look back at the prolific 3pt shooters in history we catered to (ie: JJ, Trajan) these guys nailed shots off of screens. Problem is that AOC is a pure spot-up shooter. His shot attempts are limited to what his defender allows. I agree, it’d be tremendously beneficial for him to get way more shots but he can only take what he gets. That’s what separates him from being a Redick-type player. Cements his role as rotational and not star.
The NBA believes that they can develop shooting (and they can) - Cam has the athleticism, build, defense and upside that makes scouts drool. They aren’t worried about his bricks because he has a good stroke and they believe they can fix that. So, his draft stock isn’t going to drop. That’s why he’s a top 5 pick but not a top 5 college player. — I get just as frustrated with his house of bricks games just as much as the rest of us but we have to attempt to score somehow. If he’s open, he needs to shoot. Unfortunately (especially without Zion) our offense is limited.
We have all the talent in the world, a collage of great players... But there’s a difference between great players and great scorers. You have to score to win and the fact that one of our few scorers (Cam) is “raw” rather than “polished” we’ll continue to go through the rollercoaster of emotion with him.
The NBA believes that they can develop shooting (and they can) - Cam has the athleticism, build, defense and upside that makes scouts drool. They aren’t worried about his bricks because he has a good stroke and they believe they can fix that. So, his draft stock isn’t going to drop. That’s why he’s a top 5 pick but not a top 5 college player. — I get just as frustrated with his house of bricks games just as much as the rest of us but we have to attempt to score somehow. If he’s open, he needs to shoot. Unfortunately (especially without Zion) our offense is limited.
We have all the talent in the world, a collage of great players... But there’s a difference between great players and great scorers. You have to score to win and the fact that one of our few scorers (Cam) is “raw” rather than “polished” we’ll continue to go through the rollercoaster of emotion with him.
Similar threads
