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Official gameday thread- Duke vs UNC v2

K-oach Q said:
The most disappointing thing to me is starting the game exactly like we started the first. And we are at home on Senior night….

I’m not sure exactly how you come out and get pushed around, beaten to lose balls, and just overall punched in the mouth.

It’s exactly how the first game went. Both games where essentially over before we even get to the first TV timeout.

That’s just unacceptable…..

We do fight so I guess that’s a positive….we don’t roll over and lose by 30 which could happen easily in both situations.

Overall I just see a deterioration in small things that matter….

1) Overall toughness
2) Hustle
3) Things like Mark pointing at guys, Flip always whining…
4) Fans throwing things….

K would have grabbed the microphone last night and laid into the crazies…..but I’m sure that wouldn’t have happened either with him.

I don’t know….overall it just doesn’t feel like Duke standards. It feels like there is a cheapening of them at least to me….

It kinda makes me sad somewhat.
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You made some good points.

Just two things. Do you recruit differently? Did the Duke staff/team prepare for the response from the fans if we lost? I'm not making any excuses. No different then when Flip was knocked over by a fan. Did security prepare themselves for this response?
 
dukecorey said:
Who cares, the players shouldn’t have run over there either?? Win the game and celebrate with your teammates. What have sports turned into. Just like the Pitt player, what happened to winning with class. If Duke players win like that I wouldn’t condone that and I hope Coach Scheyer wouldn’t either. Just my opinion, can’t have it both ways. Both are at fault, fans shouldn’t throw stuff either. At least security was there unlike Wake Forest.
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UNC is an acronym for University of No Classes. Add to that University of No Class.
 
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It starts with Jon. He has to instill a level of toughness that this team seems to lack. This is a team that appears soft too much. The first 12-15 minutes last night are what I’m talking about.

And this has been a problem all year. Flip is the best example. Soft and whining to stud. All in the same game. Mitchell has regressed. Neither are freshmen. That’s what stings.
 
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Tough night. No way around it. Mitchell has mainly been our best defender all year. In the last few games, he has been a non-factor. But the hate he's getting is ridiculous. Criticism of him and the team is fair. I'm just pissed off at people wishing he was gone or glad he's probably not coming back. He's been a good player for us. And the Roach attacks are embarrassing. That kid has stepped up more times than I can count for us when it is on the line.
 
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jamsession2 said:
You made some good points.

Just two things. Do you recruit differently? Did the Duke staff/team prepare for the response from the fans if we lost? I'm not making any excuses. No different then when Flip was knocked over by a fan. Did security prepare themselves for this response?
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Great question I’ve been thinking about since last night.

The two things I’ve come to:

1) Going to be hard for 18-19 year olds to compete with the landscape of college sports. I would rather go get 20-24 year old men.

The landscape is totally different now….but you will also have people less invested in Duke and way more in themselves….

It is what it is now….

2) It was a great opportunity for Scheyer to grab the mic and stop that last night. Instead he apologized to the fans….

Apologize for what exactly? All he did was condone the behavior by not stopping the behavior…..He’s the man now….it begins and ends with his leadership.

It will happen again….And if he’s not going to stop that then I can only imagine what he allows in practices from players.

It’s just sad to me….it’s inexcusable behavior and it was allowed to happen and happen with K present.

It wouldn’t have been acceptable if he wasn’t present….but man I would have kicked myself all night in hindsight…..
 
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bleediteveryday30 said:
Tough night. No way around it. Mitchell has mainly been our best defender all year. In the last few games, he has been a non-factor. But the hate he's getting is ridiculous. Criticism of him and the team is fair. I'm just pissed off at people wishing he was gone or glad he's probably not coming back. He's been a good player for us. And the Roach attacks are embarrassing. That kid has stepped up more times than I can count for us when it is on the line.
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I like Mitchell and Roach but Roach was forcing a lot last night . As a leader you settle your team down and control the flow .

No one saw Ryan shooting three 3’s back to back with in a two minute span .

What got me was they lead the entire game , made Duke play the way they wanted . Duke showed no toughness in them and it’s all said and done now no changing the outcome .

New season starts now and if I’m Scheyer I give more minutes to Stewart and Power. Especially if Mitchell can’t get out his funk .
 
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I guess I would also add Hubert should of stopped the crap from his players also after the game.

I guess that’s the overall problem with society…

No leadership anywhere….so young adults do what they want and how they want to do it.

It’s wrong all around. I keep hoping eventually the pendulum will swing back…that’s going to be hard though when people in charge don’t hold young people to discipline and standards.
 
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We didn't seem to learn anything from the first game is what bothered me. My dad said the same thing. Not getting the loose balls again. Geez even the announcers were saying this. But the season is not over, we have this week's games and then the tournament. There are quite a few older physical teams out there, so we better get our act together. So far this season is playing out a lot like last season, so let's hope we can go further in the big dance. We are still a good team, but we are obviously beatable. A 3 seed is a good seed, although usually we are 1 or 2 seed if we make a deep run. We are talented but we often look like a young team in big games. Making a deep run cures all ills though, so let's make a run. I think we can win the ACC if UNC gets knocked out, but we don't seem to match up well against them.
 
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K-oach Q said:
I guess I would also add Hubert should of stopped the crap from his players also after the game.
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Stopped them from what? Waiving bye bye at the fans who had been yelling awful things at them for hours. Did you see the video from shoot around that captured just a small bit of what the fans were yelling? One guy yelled "I'm going to kill you" at RJ Davis.

 
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I think Jon is doing a good job but I also think he is a little too nice. When I became a supervisor my boss told me "stop apologizing and asking people to do things. Sometimes people need to be told things. They may not like it at first, but they will respect you." This is something Jon needs to learn, and I think he's will. He obviously is a great recruiter and knows a ton about basketball. But teams also reflect the personality of their coach. Not saying he has to be like coach K, but maybe a little more assertive. He will get there. But this team may be too nice. Part of it is youth, Stewart looked overwhelmed out there. I like Roach but he's not a vocal leader, and Flip is too wrapped up in his own head to be one. With the right match ups this team can make a run. But with the wrong match up we could be sent home early again. Teams are going to be physical with us; how do we respond.
 
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Emotions always run high after a loss, but even higher after a loss to the holes. The differing opinions are what makes a board good, imo.

It’s a sad fact that this team isn’t consistently tough enough. Two of our sophomores are the biggest concern imo. Mitchell is gifted with being 6-9 and 220. But you aren’t being honest (loosen up the goggles) if you’re happy with his play.

Flip is the other soph. He’s a huge reason Duke is as good as they are. But he’s also a huge reason the team isn’t reaching its ceiling.
 
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Jon did say if Mitchell scores a lot, Duke wins. We kind of go as he goes. If Mitchell disappears, for the most part Flip is alone down low.
 
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LetsGoDuke83 said:
^
Yes I do think there is a degree of intimidation at work here. Until Duke's recruiting/transfer/NIL philosophy changes, this could stay in place a while.


Bingo
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I don’t agree. Two major shifts are happening. One this extra Covid year is finally going away. This has hurt Duke a lot as freshman now have to play against 26 year olds. Guys with actual 5 years of playing experience. Secondly the NIL will help Duke. What has hurt Duke the most is the good but not great freshman leaving for the draft. To either go second round or get picked very late. This won’t happen as much or at all as they can now get their bag and stay in college for another year or more. We will see more sophomores and juniors on our teams going forward mixed in with the true elite one and done’s.
 
christophero said:
Jon did say if Mitchell scores a lot, Duke wins. We kind of go as he goes. If Mitchell disappears, for the most part Flip is alone down low.
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Couldn’t agree more Chris. I’m a big Mitchell fan but when isn’t in his junk yard dog mentality he looks lost . Duke needs him going forward .
 
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And if you subscribe to the notion that the committee doesn't like us, you can bet they will pair us against a physical team in the round of 32.
 
t-towndomer said:
If you see this as an anomaly, you haven't been paying very close attention.
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No, sadly I have seen this too many times. One week we’re worried about someone going pro because he hit 3 straight shots in a game and the next week he’s yesterday’s dirty laundry because he missed an defensive assignment and shouldn’t be playing for us.
 
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Jon needs to figure out why we didn't come to play for the second straight start against them. Were we so distraught/overcome with emotion by seeing Roach and Young be honored on senior night that we couldn't get our heads into the game until it was 21-6? As I've said, it's great that we clawed back, but the game was already over. You can get away with a slow start against Florida State but not UNC. That UNC guard was disrespecting us all game with the shushing gestures. Flip and Mitchell seem to be distracted. We could make a nice run this week and bounce back. But when we play a team as good as us we seem like we don't always know what to do.
Looks like Thursday we get the winner of Syracuse/NC State. If we win that then Virginia/Clemson winner Friday. Those games seem winnable. Syracuse could give us a fight. If we get UNC in the finals we could get revenge, but losing 3 times to them would be demoralizing.
 
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I agree that the very personal attacks on players who under perform is out of line. We are all fans, and I have certainly been guilty of going a little too far with my blue colored glasses, but it does bother me when other "fans" bash our players for a rough game or a tough stretch. We came out flat, unenergized, and deer in the headlights literally from very opening tip. We showed some guts to pull it to a one possession game in the second half, but we just didn't have the energy to get over the top.

I really thought Roach played one of his worst games of the year, especially when the team needed him most.....not to necessarily score 30 points, but rather to rally them and keep them focused. Mitchell/Stewart were non-factors. Lack of a bench hurt us too.

I think UNC is in this team's heads now, and I for one would rather not see them in the ACC finals.

I also agree that Jon has a very different coaching model that K, and rightfully so, he's his own man. But I do think players at this level need a tough love coach sometimes.

Lastly, IMHO the student sections have taken things way too far. I don't go to many games, but just from watching on TV, I think every school does it. The hatred and utter disrespect is atrocious. "I want to kill you"?? Really? That's as creative as a group of students who scored 1600 on the SATs can be? Where is blue speedo guy when we need him??

Oh well, even on a Monday morning at work, Saturday night's loss still stinks. I am in the camp that if we win two ACC tourney games we are a solid 3. Our round of 32 game will be telling. After that, if we make it to the second weekend, I think it's all gravy. Anything could happen in a single elimination tourney.
 
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Alan I agree with most of what you said. I still think we can beat the Cheaters but have to be ready from the tipoff and COVER THE SHOOTERS!

Every year we talk about being "10 deep" or something like that and by February it's obvious that we maybe have 7 players who are ready to play at a high level. I think our guards were exhausted from coming back from such a large deficit and without Foster they got no rest. They all played virtually every minute.
 
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Agree Liftee. 34-40 minutes in that sort of game is a LOT for our starters. McCain, Roach, Proctor played 117 of 120 minutes!

Yes, we can beat UNC. I agree on that, and a win against them would be huge! I can't help but think of the emotional state if we faced them in the ACC finals and lost again. Who else would go off for a career night??
 
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If you cant hit a jump shot early, then the adjustment is to go inside...unfortunately we dont have an inside presence, nor a guard who can drive consistently etc...so these barren periods happen a lot...3-6 mins of missed jump shots. To happen twice against them starting games is just head scratching. The cheats have a better balance on their team + experience so they can adjust much quicker than us...even after the early time out we didnt score effectively and took questionable shots...so what was the adjustment in the TO? ...spotting them a large lead was never going to end well...we got close, but couldn't sustain consistent scoring, so they pulled away. Even if we see them again I dont think the outcome will change...they have this groups number and we dont have the answer unless one of our guards has a 75% night from 3 like one of the cheats players seems to produce every game.
 
If we are to make a run, one of the players is going to have to become a lot more vocal. And hope the others get on board. Flip and/or McCain are the only options I see. They are the only two that have any nasty in them. Flip could, but he'd have to own his erratic/pouty play to his teammates, and then show them he means business. For 40 minutes, not 20 or so.

Jon doesn't have it in him yet. But he will need to get it if wants to go from a good coach to a great one.
 
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Blakes must be in the dog house . You have five fouls to throw at Ryan . I think with the lack of upper class men and the growing line of NIL the rivalry has begun to get lost .
To go far in March everyone will need to bring their A game .
 
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dukecorey said:
Who cares, the players shouldn’t have run over there either?? Win the game and celebrate with your teammates. What have sports turned into. Just like the Pitt player, what happened to winning with class. If Duke players win like that I wouldn’t condone that and I hope Coach Scheyer wouldn’t either. Just my opinion, can’t have it both ways. Both are at fault, fans shouldn’t throw stuff either. At least security was there unlike Wake Forest.
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Winning with class, are you serious. do you think class is making death threats to a UNC player during shoot around? Is that class? C'mon.
 
wasnt sure where to post and didnt want to add a new thread - more of a question...is Mitchell considered a lock to go pro at the end of this year? I just dont see it but then again, I am no fan of the NBA so may be missing what they consider worthy of a draft pick these days...for those who know more, pls jump in. Would be interested in what you think.
 
I think it’s quite possible Mitchell transfers. He’s nowhere near a pro player.
 
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sheyduke said:
Blakes must be in the dog house . You have five fouls to throw at Ryan . I think with the lack of upper class men and the growing line of NIL the rivalry has begun to get lost .
To go far in March everyone will need to bring their A game .
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No, the coaching staff didn't believe in his contribution.
 
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