Cracks me up how some gyms are filled to the gills when we arrive and then half empty when not us. Cuse had their largest weekday crowd in 27 years last nite. That's insane.
***DUKE VS SYRACUSE OFFICIAL GAMEDAY THREAD***
- Thread starter krzyzewskiville
- Start date
Cracks me up how some gyms are filled to the gills when we arrive and then half empty when not us. Cuse had their largest weekday crowd in 27 years last nite. That's insane.
Bolden is flat out not ready for the speed of the game yet and that's ok. Just b/c some dumb scout called him a lottery pick doesn't mean he drops 20/10 every night.
Though Jav would earn mins this year but his enthusiasm on bench shows he isn't going anywhere.
Harry looked good ast night, Amile just got hot.
I agree with most of what you're saying. A problem I have with losing to Syracuse last night is that they have no depth, very vulnerable inside and we did very little down low to get them in foul trouble. Plus we had 3 of our 4 guards with 4 fouls. Javin & Chase are non factors, but I thought Bolden could help some. I don't understand him not playing any at all
Maybe you're right about Bolden on offense, but what do we give up on D? K obviously doesn't like that scenario.
Bolden hasn't been given the opportunity to adjust to the speed of the game! You can't expect a player to develop in practice alone. Everything is done at half the speed in practice! Real learning and development happens with minutes in a real game, I'm sorry I don't agree with anyone on this board when it comes to developing talent. The kid has been done a disservice sitting on the bench. No other major program treats its talent like Duke does.
Practice only gives you so much. Game time helps. From my seat it looks like he's trying out there. Maybe when he's in there a possession or two, go zone. He could help some. I'm not saying 20 minutes. It's not like the rest of the guys are playing lockdown d. But you also don't learn how to drive a car sitting in the passenger seat.
That's certainly a fair take. You could be right. Maybe K feels like he's doing this for Harry right now too? It must be hard to decide minutes on a team like this.
Bolden had some solid minutes earlier in the year and didn't make any leaps. Harry has passed him and there's not any minutes to spare in a close game. Bolden got a fair shot. I see no disservice. You think he'd be better off playing 25 mpg at Clemson putting up 8ppg and 8rpg? Would he be getting minutes at Kentucky?
Bolden injury clearly hurt early season development. Harry on the other hand plays quick, grabs rebounds & makes put backs. Amile is a senior & k honors that. Not many mins avail for the bigs.
No other major program has 5 titles in last 25 years. K knows what he's doing.
it does make you wonder why some of these kids select Duke over a U.K. Cal will play his talent and let them work through there mistakes. That's why he gets 5-7 of the best every year. The down side of a Bolden is some future recruits will pay attention to this and lean away from Duke. I'm still not a huge fan of so many OADs. Between Duke and Kentucky they still have only won 2 nattys between both schools using the OAD mentality. Not like it's a concrete template for winning it all with regularity.
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This team is what it is- very inconsistent from game to game, half to half and time out to timeout. We have absolutely zero clue if they will play solid defense which they have in spurts or as Topps said, give up layup after layup after layup. If someone is banking in threes more power to them, but we lost this game and quite frankly could have lost a few others during the 7 game win streak to inferior teams.
The positives?
This was due to happen though. Because we never put teams away, we let them hang around, gain confidence and we get down to one or two possessions in the final 90 seconds where truly anything can happen. This doesn't work in March for six games. You have absolutely no idea what to expect from this team each night, if we aren't smoking hot from 3, we can lose to anyone.
The positives?
- We have three guys that on any given night can put up 25
- Amile gives great energy and can make a difference on both ends
- Harry is getting better
- Matt makes winning plays even when he's not shooting well
- This team is flat out inconsistent on every single metric basically outside of FT shooting as a team.
- Our perimeter defense is abysmal containing drives
- We play six guys who in close games are visibly worn down
- We fail to put teams we are flat out more talented away and because of that the above wearing down occurs often
This was due to happen though. Because we never put teams away, we let them hang around, gain confidence and we get down to one or two possessions in the final 90 seconds where truly anything can happen. This doesn't work in March for six games. You have absolutely no idea what to expect from this team each night, if we aren't smoking hot from 3, we can lose to anyone.
Again Bolden has never been given a fair shot. I've watched every game, as I'm sure you have. Maybe we have differing opinions on what constitutes a fair shot. 3 minutes in a half and being yanked at the slightest mistake is not a fair shot. Playing worried that you'll make a mistake and fear of being yanked is not development or a fair shot in my opinion, but again, that's just me.
Cal routinely plays about 7 guys also, there is a ton of talent that sits there too, that's not the issue. We have a mix of talent and vets, can't ask for anything more- we just aren't getting it done.
I still can't help but wonder what this team could have been with Derryck Thornton running the PG. By far not the best PG Duke has ever had but it's better than what we have now. He did have the ability to drive and dish and a year of growth under his belt.
We've lost two games on last second shots this season. I think the Basketball Gods will reward us in the postseason!
The people saying that the season is over will be the same people saying we're a title contender again if we beat Miami. We shouldn't be prisoners of the moment, we're coming off a big win streak including a win over who many say is the best team in the nation.
Agree with what you're saying. We wouldn't be smoking the sites if Allen was not in a funk. Poor kid having a tough time right now and he's counted on to be better than he has been. He's had such a roller coaster season. Look at his stats in our losses. A sad fact is we need Allen much better than he has been to offset our weaknesses on defense, or games like last night will happen
I haven't read this whole thread but few things I noticed. Grayson has the green light even when he is completely off. He made that one big three but in my opinion shot Duke out of the game. I also think his ankle injury is very much impacting his game - he settled for the NBA three way too many times.
With the hot hand being Tatum in the first half, we as a team did not make a conscious effort to get him the ball and run the offense through him in the second. He has made incredible strides with respect to his vision and passing ability - wish the ball had moved through him more. In my opinion the ball should move through Tatum and Luke especially until Grayson fully recovers.
Last night was pretty terrible because it all but sealed the fate of who will win the ACC regular season (UNCheat). That being said I hope we can get the double bye and win the ACC tournament. I think that will be more important to this team's mindset moving into the NCAA tournament.
As far as Bolden goes, the kid just has a long way to go. From what I've heard, a lot of that is between the ears. I'm not one to judge someone especially without having met them but some of the stories I've heard would make you question his intelligence. The stories could be completely false though so who knows but he's obviously not playing for a reason.
With the hot hand being Tatum in the first half, we as a team did not make a conscious effort to get him the ball and run the offense through him in the second. He has made incredible strides with respect to his vision and passing ability - wish the ball had moved through him more. In my opinion the ball should move through Tatum and Luke especially until Grayson fully recovers.
Last night was pretty terrible because it all but sealed the fate of who will win the ACC regular season (UNCheat). That being said I hope we can get the double bye and win the ACC tournament. I think that will be more important to this team's mindset moving into the NCAA tournament.
As far as Bolden goes, the kid just has a long way to go. From what I've heard, a lot of that is between the ears. I'm not one to judge someone especially without having met them but some of the stories I've heard would make you question his intelligence. The stories could be completely false though so who knows but he's obviously not playing for a reason.
I think there is a huge difference in saying we are done and being realistic with who we are. Did we have a big win streak absolutely, included some big time wins including against unc. We also got away with a few to teams we should have crushed at home- Clemson had a "shot" to win it at the end.
Let's also not forget how the streak started- on a borderline historic run by one player- Luke who poured in 30 at wake and didn't miss a single shot including the game winner. So we've had some magic of our own.
It balances out. We shoot lights out we can beat anyone, if we do not we can lose to anyone. Unfortunately that is not sustainable for six games over three weeks.
I'm hardly a poster that is glass half empty. I'm also not going to deny what is going on.
Agreed, I think most posters like myself just want to see consistent play.
Lateral quickness on this team is detrimental to achieving this IMO. Can't remember but I don't remember seeing zone at all last night. I think it's good to be able to switch things up so teams have to keep on their toes. That being said I'm not questioning the GOAT's tactics.
pg
A pg would help but he really didn't show much pg skills(could improve). He would of helped on defense though. The biggest issue I see is the one that has been going on a huge chunk of the last 5-10 years and that's awful defense. I don't want to say it is 100% on strategy, effort, depth, or the players skills but the coaching staff really needs to find a way to fix it. If duke was playing defense we would be able to survive imperfections on offense.
I'm not sure how you lump Kennard in with Allen and Jackson, Kennard shot 42% from the field 5/9 from 3... that's not his best performance ever but it isn't terrible. Jackson went 0 for the game but at least he only shot 4 times, Allen was 2/11, 1/8 from 3, took some terrible shots and struggled in transition. Jones went 1/6 but that's not necessarily uncommon and again at least he only shot the ball 6 times. If Allen is injured then rest him last night, what's the worst that could have happened? Duke loses? Well that happened anyway.
I hope you're right but based who this team is, I don't see us getting out of the sweet sixteen. Way too much inconsistency/apathy. This team just never really clicked.
I was lumping Kennard in there only talking about the foul situation. I never said Kennard was bad. Allen was.
You earn time in practice, and keep minutes by maximizing them in game action. I like Bolden's energy a few games back. Virgina was a good match up because they're slow, but they're obviously concerned about what they're seeing, or they would play him.
Imo, that earn pt in practice ain't flying.
So we are going to sit here and say, that five players are playing so poorly in practice that they can't see one to two minutes in a game?
How are practices ran then? Is Tatum matching up with Robinson and Grayson the other walk on? Giles against Amile let's say Luke against Jackson. We don't play enough bigs for any of them to match up.
For example, if four of our bigs say Bolden,Jeter,Javin and Big V aren't matching up in practice then how can one say they are in the offensive game plan and can earn minutes in a game.
Fact I think we all can agree on is K loves a short bench and I think this season has become more challenging for him then some in the past.
So we are going to sit here and say, that five players are playing so poorly in practice that they can't see one to two minutes in a game?
How are practices ran then? Is Tatum matching up with Robinson and Grayson the other walk on? Giles against Amile let's say Luke against Jackson. We don't play enough bigs for any of them to match up.
For example, if four of our bigs say Bolden,Jeter,Javin and Big V aren't matching up in practice then how can one say they are in the offensive game plan and can earn minutes in a game.
Fact I think we all can agree on is K loves a short bench and I think this season has become more challenging for him then some in the past.
It's shortsighted thinking to say you earn game time by just good practice time. I've said it before that you're dealing with kids and there's no 100% formula when dealing with kids. Some practice good then can't handle the game, and some that just need an opportunity. This team is good but has some problems, most notably our man to man is inept as a whole. Biggest problem offensively is the struggles of Allen and because of his struggles and our unwillingness to work more inside, it exposes our defense even more. You never learned how to drive a car from the passenger seat
Right. You learned how to drive by being coached by an expert driver under controlled conditions. You were never tossed out there on the road to see if you could do it. Time on the interstate was earned by demonstrating you could manage things at lower speeds with more supervision. Once you demonstrated the ability to handle driving, you were given the keys and the expert trusted you to drive effectively. If you couldn't, you were reined back in.
I agree on the second part, he looked miserable at Cuse. I think K loves an 8-9 man rotation, but he wants versatility out of every position. Bolden and Vrank are turnover prone and a step slow on D. I would like to see Javin get in some, because he's got the mind and motor for a Duke style attack, but his scoring is probably a bit rusty after his injury. I get all the frustration on here. Watching a tired looking Grayson jack up threes for 40 minutes gets very old. I wish K would use the subs to send a message if nothing else. This season has been begging for a 5 man hockey change. Just trot out Frank, Nick Pags, Jack White, Delaurier and Vrank for 3 minutes to end a crappy half. Frank Martin does this all the time and it tends to get the desired results out of the starters. We're going to push through the bad shooting and turnovers, Grayson will get it together and we'll win some post-season games. Trust the (K) process.
I agree with those who say in general Grayson is key to the team's success. However over the last 4 games since UNC when he has struggled we are 3-1 with a road loss to a pretty good team on a night when we shot poorly in general and the basketball gods were clearly wearing Cuse jerseys 
It seems every year K's short bench tactics are criticized by many here. Yet it should come as no surprise. This is his plan, a method, an ideology, and like it or not he's pretty set in his ways.
Alan
It seems every year K's short bench tactics are criticized by many here. Yet it should come as no surprise. This is his plan, a method, an ideology, and like it or not he's pretty set in his ways.
Alan
You're comparing learning to drive a 3,000 pound weapon to playing in a college basketball game? How is that even viable? It's a game, nobody's life is at risk here. The real world requires more than classroom training and hand holding. Bolden may learn intricacies of the offense and defense in practice and how K wants to play and game planning, but he's not going to get in a rhythm or catch up with the speed of a real game in practice. You're kidding yourself if you think thats a legitimate strategy. I get you can show effort in practice and that should hold some merit, but if you're truly preparing these young men for the real world (professional basketball or otherwise) the hand holding isn't going to cut it.
This is about a fear of losing through experience and that's how I see it. Again, just my opinion. Not asking anyone to agree with me.
Wow! You found one line that you could disagree with. Fact is, Duke only has a chance if Allen finds his game and team gets better and consistent defensively, yet you make no reference about any of that. I'm not one to say play all these extra guys. K plays who he thinks gives best chance. I get it. I don't agree with all he does. That's ok, but I know he did something different in 15, ZONE, and that helped team. He needs, in my opinion, to do something now, to help this team have a chance that 15 team did. If this team doesn't reach Final 4, it will go down as a flop season. Take your keys and drive that one to the bank!
When you play 6 players (with limited minutes from Giles), have slow guards, and no rim protection, that's not a good recipe. Adjust your D or play an available big(s). Bolden and Giles could have been effective on defense and offense against Cuse. They will be needed if this team is to make a run in the two upcoming tournaments. There seems to be something going on with Bolden. Using the bench and player development is something that is always brought up with K. Cuse is the type of team that Duke will face in the early rounds of the ncaa tournament. They should have been put away and Duke let them hang around, like they have been doing with everyone lately. Hopefully, things get turned around, but time is running out.
playing 2 bigs against cuse may have helped with rim protection...gillion attacked the rim at will...and lydon being covered by grayson or frank was scary and just threw things off imo...........we all know K's MO, but getting some minutes in for some guys, bolden/javin cant hurt, esp when you have guys gassed and playing timid due to foul trouble....#dukeallday either way
You cannot compare this team to the 2015 team. The difference in those two teams is this team does not have Tyus Jones.
Someone else made the comparison. I tried to show that you can look at the analogy another way. I'm assuming Mac was implying that kids have to be evaluated in game situations to get a fair assessment and I disagree.
It wasn't the only thing I disagree with. I just think it's a weak analogy to say that kids need playing time to be properly evaluated. I'm not trying to start arguments here - I respect you as a poster. My aim was to poke holes in what I saw as an unfair comparison. If I read your post correctly, you are implying that Bolden needs to get more playing time because he hasn't been appropriately evaluated and allowed to improve. I'm arguing that the game time is not where that should take place.
Your points that Allen's struggles and our poor defense are the major problems - I totally agree.
By the way, I would like to see Bolden play more. I have a feeling in Coach K's eyes he hasn't earned more time in practice. That's good enough for me. And that's probably where you and I don't agree.
Again, I didn't mean any personal disrespect to you - and I see it could certainly have come off that way. I should have prefaced my post with that.
No it doesn't. My point was that had K not implemented zone, I don't think that team would have won it all. The zone helped the team play better d, and he ran zone on multiple occasions, like in comeback win against UVA. Slowly they became a better defensive team, which made them a better team overall. Something must be done better by this team to achieve what 15 team did. They had their bumps and bruises too
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