Official game day thread- Duke vs State- ACC tourney
- Thread starter pisgah101
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The modern NBA game does not emphasize on two plumlee brothers, a Zou, Lance and Kyle. It's satisfied with Kelly. I'm not insulting Kelly. Duke just recruits for Andre and Kelly.
Wouldn't bother me a bit if Mitchell, Roach and Proctor are gone
What transfer that can play will want to come when he has 6 high rated kids coming in?
We can’t have our cake and eat it too. Our culture has to change. It will get better only if Jon gets a little tougher on the team.
I agree Duke is going to need guards for next year! They will have elite wings & bigs but elite guard play wins Championships!
What's off is 3 guard lineup, when 2 of the guards are smaller and less physical most games. AND not having a wing to be a stud. AND lack of rim protection on the court at all times...
It’s amazing how many holes we have and how much development didn’t happen in the off season.
thats right...needs a change in recruiting - we've got #1 classes a lot....or close to #1....and they never really deliver...the odd run but overall they dont live up to the hype. Next year will be another frustrating year with the most young talent but losses to more experienced/tougher teams.
All 3 are not physical. Proctor is 6'5 but don't like contact
If you're not upset, you're delusional.
I said a few weeks ago we hadn't beaten anyone good other than Baylor, who would probably beat us by 10 now. (Their center has greatly improved) I'm not upset because I don't think we are that good. And Roach is clearly injured. Get healthy, we have a week and a chance to regroup. I'm just hoping for sweet 16. I thought the UNC game was a measuring stick and we failed again. And then tonight; it is just perplexing. We are 2-7 in close games. We have lost 3 of 4 recent games to North Carolina schools. But amazingly, we can still make a run. It's a new season. But clearly things need to change. Right now we have the look of a team who barely wins their first game and loses the second. But anything can happen, people were saying we could be a 2 seed a week ago. If they drop us to a 5 (doubtful) we will get the dreaded 5/12 game. We should be a 4, so with a lucky draw Sweet 16 is possible. No doubt we are limping into the tournament. If the threes aren't falling we don't seem to know what to do.
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Mitchell is a SF/WF...with size and weight. Still a SF/WF.
I asked this week, if the team peaked. Few wanted to respond. Those of us that love the game, and are objective see the realization.
We have guys who are almost all out of position.. Flip should be a PF, Mitchell SF, Roach a PG. Only one in their correct position in my opinion is McCain. Think when we recruited last year, the staff was counting on Flip, Mitchell, Proctor and possibly Roach going pro. Everything got mixed up with them coming back and then because of that we couldn't get a reliable big/center.
Our 3 sophs haven't made the leap. Flip came close, but he still played better last year, even early on when Lively was barely playing. He was dominant at times. Proctor and Mitchell are the same players they were last year for the most part. And Flip should have been a 4, for reasons we have discussed to death. Stewart has also gone quiet lately after he appeared to be emerging. Power did not have the impact expected. Roach is hobbled, Foster out. Reeves and Schutt out for the year. A lot of little things but they add up. Night all; lets hope for a good draw Sunday.
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Congrats to the Wuffies and their coach. Hopefully saved his job. Bring the "Big Four" back. Let's move on to the Dance and see what happens.
OFC
OFC
I hate coaching. The thought of it, because if I as a coach ever hit a rough spot I'm making changes. That never happened. It only came due to injury. I think we should have done away with the 3 guards a while ago. The best 2 story and the next two run the second unit/rotation... Then would have worked Powers and Stewart in heavily. They would be ready by now. And we never seen it... I called for Roach, McCain, Mitchell, Flip, Stewart... rim protection, not the biggest Center position, but flip is still in there. Bigger in size and everyone in correct position... but never seen it. WELL TOURNEY TIME. Win or See ya next year...
Chris, for what it's worth, espn still has Duke as a 3. I don't think that will last but I don't see a way of them dropping all the way to a 5. Still sucks because a win last night I truly think kept us firmly at a 3!
Thank you for this Mac . This is what I’ve been trying to say the last two seasons .
When you look at the transfers UNC gets to come it’s because their position does not have a locked in starter and enables that transfer to start from day one .
I miss seeing all Duke guys on the bench as coaches. Those guys knew what it means to put on the Duke jersey and it seemed like the standard was a lot higher, diving on the floor for loose balls etc... It seems like Jon is mentioning effort and ready to play mentality a lot in his press conferences. There were very few times we questioned the kids effort level when K and Duke guys were on the bench and if K mentioned it, it seemed to be fixed quickly. I think Jon does good things but this team seems to have taken on his identity of what appears to be mild mannered and passive.
Duhon, I don’t think having all Duke guys as coaches is the issue - Jon’s the head coach, and it starts with him. But i agree with the rest of your post. I’m just at a loss to understand how we can come out so flat. Especially coming right after the Carolina game. Flip and Mitchell showed fire, but the others looked like they were sleepwalking the entire game. Standing around, didn’t appear to communicate, lazy passes, no box out, no hustle for 50-50 balls… I couldn’t help but think there are a number of players on that team who were already thinking about their next home. Danny Hurley and Coach K would have had a heart attack with that effort, but only after inducing one to each of the players..
Kids received yet another lesson on what a team can do when they are focused, dialed in, communicate and playing with great energy and purpose.
You'd think they'd be tired of getting these first hand lessons, but I guess not.
You'd think they'd be tired of getting these first hand lessons, but I guess not.
This team doesn't have a true PG, a true WF, or a true post/shotblocker.....
But at the end of the day, games in March/April are won by your backcourt... and Roach/Proctor/McCain were awful last night. Roach didn't even look like he wanted to be out there. I'll give McCain a pass, as it appeared the bandage really effected his right eyesight. And Proctor is who he is, which is just OK most of the time
Shooting 50% from the FT line doesn't help (those 2 bricked FT's by Mitchell) that could have made it a one possession game was brutal....they weren't even close
Throw in below average X/O's coaching, and you get what we've seen over the last 7 days
Unless this teams goes crazy from behind the arc, there is a better chance of losing to a 12/13 seed then there is advancing to the 2nd weekend.
But at the end of the day, games in March/April are won by your backcourt... and Roach/Proctor/McCain were awful last night. Roach didn't even look like he wanted to be out there. I'll give McCain a pass, as it appeared the bandage really effected his right eyesight. And Proctor is who he is, which is just OK most of the time
Shooting 50% from the FT line doesn't help (those 2 bricked FT's by Mitchell) that could have made it a one possession game was brutal....they weren't even close
Throw in below average X/O's coaching, and you get what we've seen over the last 7 days
Unless this teams goes crazy from behind the arc, there is a better chance of losing to a 12/13 seed then there is advancing to the 2nd weekend.
Until Scheyer and the top football coaches meet with the Duke president and higher up’s about admission standards and credits transferring over for transfer athletes, than I don’t see us being serious national title contenders. There is a reason Notre Dame hasn’t been elite in football for 30 years. If you can’t get the top transfers, than you might as well do what we’re doing which is at least getting the best freshman. Elite teams use the portal to fill holes, we let our hole stay a hole.
The game completely changed on Flip’s 2nd foul because he was guarding in the post. Yet again, had we brought in a bruising 5 man, we win last night because Flip was rollling. We can’t match up against any team with a dominant 5, I’ve been saying that all year. Purdue?? Jesus Edey will score 40 on us. Bacot owns us. This was obvious in May and it has ruined our season.
Our sophomores didn’t take the leap, and Jon seemingly hasn’t taken a coaching leap in his sophomore season. If we don’t make it out the first weekend this season then will there start to be pressure on him? Better do big things with Flagg and company next year.
The game completely changed on Flip’s 2nd foul because he was guarding in the post. Yet again, had we brought in a bruising 5 man, we win last night because Flip was rollling. We can’t match up against any team with a dominant 5, I’ve been saying that all year. Purdue?? Jesus Edey will score 40 on us. Bacot owns us. This was obvious in May and it has ruined our season.
Our sophomores didn’t take the leap, and Jon seemingly hasn’t taken a coaching leap in his sophomore season. If we don’t make it out the first weekend this season then will there start to be pressure on him? Better do big things with Flagg and company next year.
Truthfully looking back this loss yesterday doesn’t surprise me at all. Duke has lost every rematch versus a team they played within a week or two. It happened again Pitt, Wake and now NC State. Not sure if it’s game planning or players over confident. The only good thing is this shouldn’t happen anymore this season.
We need a bench shake up or Jon is in trouble.. we need fire from somewhere. Bring in wojo, Bobby Hurley after he’s canned this year, JJ, or Jay will and let THEM be the bad cop. It has to happen or our candy A team will be right back here next year wondering how so much talent can be wasted
The fans got to listen to Jon in the first half talk to the team during a time out. He was talking to the team as if he was doing a slide presentation. No intensity in his tone, no passion in getting the team into another gear.
It starts with him. I know he's young, but he has to have the capability of showing some real fire at the team. Our play looks as uninspiring as Jon's coaching. His future depends on him adjusting.
I hate hearing Jon isn't firing them up. Man if you gotta yell, scream, jump up and down to make someone motivated to compete, you are already behind. It's ACC tournament time. And prior to that it was OUR BIGGEST RIVALS... Not being fired up for a chance to get bragging rights, and hang a banner, shows low will. That shouldn't be on Jon... he prepares them, shouldn't have to FIRE THEM UP TOO.
In general, teams take on the identity of their coach. It sure looks like our play is as uninspiring as his coaching looks. Granted, we aren't there, but the eye test says we don't have a killer instinct, which again, is a reflection of the head coach.
His downfall at this point is his age and where he's at. But, he will HAVE TO adjust if he wants to be a successful coach.
His downfall at this point is his age and where he's at. But, he will HAVE TO adjust if he wants to be a successful coach.
Actually, this is only partly true. Scheyer did try to get some transfers at the center spot. There was the kid transferring from Kansas, the word was he was high on Duke but couldn't get accepted because admissions doesn't take online credits.
So, while Scheyer does "handpick" the players, admissions did keep at least one transfer in.
Yep. I was thinking man I’m more fired up for my daughters 5/6yr old team.
Somewhat agree that a coach shouldnt have to fire up competitive players BUT that seems to be necessary on occasions...like yesterday...and at tip off for this team it seems. JS is a young coach and still hasnt proved anything. Not sure he was the right guy yet...as this isnt a program that lends itself to on the job training since every team wants to beat us badly! His bench development has been poor..Stewart should be a consistent rotation by now, and Power should be getting more time and be effective. Neither has been given enough time to feel comfortable..so throwing a minute here and there to them doesnt do the team or the player any good. After the last NCst game Stewart proved to be effective on the defensive end at the rim....he sat yesterday.....thats a coaching mistake
I respectively disagree. As my wife astutely noted, a team tends to pick up the identity of its coach. Danny Hurley and UConn is Exhibit A. Is he a brash guy? Yes, by his own admission. But he’s as tough as nails, and his team reflects that. Lots of swagger, lots of confidence, and when he puts the whip to the horse, they respond. No one gets to just punch the clock and go through the motions. Which is pretty much the opposite of what we’ve seen this year. As dukecorey noted, several times we’ve come up flat against teams that we recently easily beat. And we coasted against Hofstra and Southern Indiana when we should have had our walk-ons in the game with 10 minutes remaining. I think Jon’s a superb recruiter (pretty obvious), and by all accounts is one heck of a good guy, but we need him to demand 100% effort from everyone or they sit, regardless of recruiting rating or OAD status. Anyone remember K having players’ names taken off their locker doors, or starting walk-ons Patrick Davidson, Patrick Johnson and Reggie Love in place of Daniel Ewing, Sean Dockery and Shavlik Randolph against Wake after we had 2 bad losses? Time for some of that stuff, if it’s not too late.
It all requires balance.
My problem is Jon is to soft all the time….there isn’t any balance towards the darker side.
Them showing him talking in the huddle yesterday was a bad look IMO.
It’s no wonder the players come out with no energy or urgency until it’s panic time.
I don’t doubt they like Jon and I don’t doubt he has their respect.
But Jon needs to figure out a better way to motivate people….its not the same way all the time.
There are times to exhibit calmness and there are times to get into some asses. You have to know how to balance both ends of the spectrum if you are going to coach effectively IMO.
My problem is Jon is to soft all the time….there isn’t any balance towards the darker side.
Them showing him talking in the huddle yesterday was a bad look IMO.
It’s no wonder the players come out with no energy or urgency until it’s panic time.
I don’t doubt they like Jon and I don’t doubt he has their respect.
But Jon needs to figure out a better way to motivate people….its not the same way all the time.
There are times to exhibit calmness and there are times to get into some asses. You have to know how to balance both ends of the spectrum if you are going to coach effectively IMO.
