Yes dachamp but he's playing for Duke and its really hurting us this time of the season. We need stability and above all smart play from him and its not happening enough to put us over the top. He's had the whole season to improve and I don't see that he has, given the playing time he receives. The middle is too congested with our bigs for him to utilize his attacking ability. I've never criticized Duval but he plays too much.
***DUKE VS VIRGINIA TECH OFFICIAL GAMEDAY THREAD***
- Thread starter krzyzewskiville
- Start date
someone said in another post maybe they shouldn't play at the same time. That would help Carters game and probably would cut out some of the turnovers we have on lobbed balls to the post.
It's not really even the elephant in the room at this point. We're better on D and on O w/o him, don't see how anyone can deny that. Obviously we can't bench him but I think the team is better off with Bagley getting 25m and not 35m.
It's not all on him. If we had a PG who could get him the ball when/where he needs it, and w/o the constant turnovers, he would be more effective. But we clearly don't have that guy, and we don't need to, given other personnel on the bench.
The good news is, our D is looking really good. And if there's one thing I trust Coach on to figure out, it's improving our Offense. He has the pieces, just needs to use all of them.
I don’t understand some of you. Do you realize we are top 3 in offensive efficiency and assists but y’all are complaining about ball movement. It’s unbelievable. Y’all take a 2 game sample and now all of a sudden our offense isn’t good with Bagley. He and Carter have been playing together all season and looked good. Now they can’t play together all of a sudden. Smh. Classic overreaction
During his press conference coach really pushed the fact that these guys were tired tonight and how it affected our shooting and our toughness. I’d like to believe that’s true as Grayson and Gary were hitting early and really lost some steam late. Obviously if we were hitting 3’s it would have mitigated a lot of the things we saw that weren’t working and probably opened up the paint a lot more for our bigs. It wasn’t exactly difficult for them to clog the lane when they only had to worry about 2 shooters.
He also mentioned Duval and how you can’t miss the front of a 1 and 1 that late. He said “I’m not blaming him” but you could clearly tell he was not pleased. I think there’s no way in the tourney he is gonna bench Bagley or Carter at the end of a game but I think there’s a very good chance we don’t see the ball in Duval’s hands during fouling time.
Hopefully rest really will be the answer.
He also mentioned Duval and how you can’t miss the front of a 1 and 1 that late. He said “I’m not blaming him” but you could clearly tell he was not pleased. I think there’s no way in the tourney he is gonna bench Bagley or Carter at the end of a game but I think there’s a very good chance we don’t see the ball in Duval’s hands during fouling time.
Hopefully rest really will be the answer.
I don't think it's an overreaction although I respect your point. We have enough observations to say that Grayson and Bagley sure don't seem to co-exist well. Grayson up top is absolutely the biggest reason our D is so much better, so he's irreplaceable, even when his shot is off. The same can't be said for Bagley. He doesn't bring anything unique to either side of the court. We've recently proven that he is very replaceable. He'll probably be the best pro of the bunch, but he's nowhere close to the most important on this Duke team.
He’s our best perimeter defender and the only one that will put pressure on the defense attacking the rim.
So it’s Bagley fault that Grayson can’t make shots? That makes no sense. Grayson took 18 shots today. Bagley took 9. It’s just mind boggling. Pretty much people want Grayson to be the reason we win. Grayson got his shots. He’s handling the ball now so there’s no more excuses
We disagree, that's fine, no need to continue the argument. But yeah, I absolutely want Grayson to be the reason we win.
Gotta play the team that can cut down the nets and our best chance wasn't the past two games.
Y’all got excited about those 4 little victories but we couldn’t win a title with that team. We won 2 games at home that we could’ve won without Bagley and Carter. One road game was against Georgia tech. Then we had a dogfight with Clemson. It came down to the end. This one came down to the end. We missed shots and they didn’t.
Very talented team that is mis-matched together because our 18/19 year olds aren't polished yet, suffering from obvious weaknesses in their games
I still really enjoy watching this current collection specifically because of the twin towers dynamic (rare for Duke), the bench and of-course our detested Senior.
Never a dull moment. An entirely different team and dynamic than last years bunch
We still need individuals such as Bagley & Duval to get us to the Final Four but not necessarily to win it (Okafor anyone?). Coack K will make the difficult and possibly unpopular decision if needed. Onto the next. I'm still enjoying the journey
I still really enjoy watching this current collection specifically because of the twin towers dynamic (rare for Duke), the bench and of-course our detested Senior.
Never a dull moment. An entirely different team and dynamic than last years bunch
We still need individuals such as Bagley & Duval to get us to the Final Four but not necessarily to win it (Okafor anyone?). Coack K will make the difficult and possibly unpopular decision if needed. Onto the next. I'm still enjoying the journey
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to me - this game highlites our big weakness. Guard ball control at the end of close games. When you have a 1 or 2 possession game - every possession matters.
when you go back and just see the number of possessions where we turn the ball over coming down the stretch - its ridiculous. Whether its Bags 3 trying to drive the lane (?) or Grayson throwing up an alley ooop or Trent driving and heaving a bad pass - those are bad possessions that lead to the other team scoring.
also - when we pull the ball out and try to burn clock. oh man. we are just terrible at that.
I hate to argue with K - but to me this game was about Grayson. He made bad choices.
when you go back and just see the number of possessions where we turn the ball over coming down the stretch - its ridiculous. Whether its Bags 3 trying to drive the lane (?) or Grayson throwing up an alley ooop or Trent driving and heaving a bad pass - those are bad possessions that lead to the other team scoring.
also - when we pull the ball out and try to burn clock. oh man. we are just terrible at that.
I hate to argue with K - but to me this game was about Grayson. He made bad choices.
You ignored him by accident, didn't you?
Didn’t know how, didn’t even know when....honestly, it’s been about 2 years (I never saw gameday threads last year either). Never had thought to look in that part cause I don’t even know how to do that haha... but i can actually post on game day threads again..
Hopefully we figure out our offense before Saturday.
"Getting Bagley readjusted into the “new” Duke -- Allen playing point guard -- could be something to watch. The Blue Devils have had their two worst offensive games of the season in the past two games, scoring 60 points against Syracuse and 63 against Virginia Tech."
http://www.espn.com/blog/collegebas...back-while-virginia-tech-becomes-tourney-lock
"Getting Bagley readjusted into the “new” Duke -- Allen playing point guard -- could be something to watch. The Blue Devils have had their two worst offensive games of the season in the past two games, scoring 60 points against Syracuse and 63 against Virginia Tech."
http://www.espn.com/blog/collegebas...back-while-virginia-tech-becomes-tourney-lock
Actually if you take the last 4 games we've played w/Bagley and Carter garnering most of time together we're 1-3. There was the loss to St.John's and the offense petered out in the 2nd half at UNC....K has his work cut out for him between now and Saturday, and thats NOT "classic overreaction."
Our offense seems to stand around too much not moving enough, w/both Bagley and Carter on the floor. Remember how Grayson was driving to the basket multiple times during the 5 game win streak? He took it to the hoop ONE TIME vs Va Tech, and scored. Things are simply too clogged down low....We need more movement of the ball and by our players. K laughed off reporters questions while Bags was out about incorporating him back in the offense. The time for action is now by K...
OFC
If that's the truth then how can we not worry about either tournament? These guys will be playing back to back days during the ACC tournament and then during NCAA tournament they'll be playing 2 games in three days several weekends in a row.
If that's all it takes to make us tired was playing a Saturday then Monday game, we're in trouble.
It sounds like an excuse. There's other teams out there who did that schedule for nearly a week and came out with no losses.
Lately, I prefer to see Carter and Bags playing alongside Bolden, not playing together... I think a healthy Bolden will help us in the tourney if given the opportunity to just play...dude is looking more comfortable and making plays...no longer has the fear of being yanked out the game for making a mistake...I just hope he stays..
It's definitely an excuse. We seemed to have plenty of energy at the end of the games at PK80.
You know, sometimes a coach will say things to protect his players psyche. Coach K wants his players confident and if he says we just can't make a shot and our shooting just sucks, then we might go on a 3 game skid. None of us want that.
I don't care who's in the lineup, at this point in the season we need to share the ball more and not make all these turnovers. Grayson & Trent really struggled shooting and that with the turnovers killed us tonight.
It seems to be the go to excuse. Instead of saying we can't make a shot and our shooting sucks, how about we have to protect the ball more. We have to value possessions more. We have to get more ball movement. We have to attack more. We have to rotate to the corners on defense better.
The options aren't to either create an excuse for the team, or berate the players like Dakich did. You can be honest, but focus on the changes that need to be made, and not on everything that went wrong.
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UL beat Hokies with 19 assists on 24 made baskets. Snyder did hit 7 threes but he was wide open mostly from the corners. Playing a 2 Guard lineup the Cards did a great job passing the ball.
Duke is just not a good passing team. Players often go one on one and the ball does not rotate around the perimeter like Duke teams of the past.
Might be time for the rule our team used in the Salvation Army league. No one shoots until after the third pass.
It’s not the Duke is a selfish team but there is almost no inside out movement to open 3 point shooters.
A double digit win over the cheaters will go a long way to making things right with the team and with this board.
Duke is just not a good passing team. Players often go one on one and the ball does not rotate around the perimeter like Duke teams of the past.
Might be time for the rule our team used in the Salvation Army league. No one shoots until after the third pass.
It’s not the Duke is a selfish team but there is almost no inside out movement to open 3 point shooters.
A double digit win over the cheaters will go a long way to making things right with the team and with this board.
Fourteen pages and most filled with the Duke "fans" who only post during losses.
That one sucked, to lead literally the entire game and lose on an air ball put back stinks.
But... I still have faith, and I'm not convinced they're not in contention for a 1 seed. Win out and beat UVA in the ACC title game, they get a 1 seed.
I believe Duke has blown double digit leads in all six losses and in every one they were right there with chances to win.
That one sucked, to lead literally the entire game and lose on an air ball put back stinks.
But... I still have faith, and I'm not convinced they're not in contention for a 1 seed. Win out and beat UVA in the ACC title game, they get a 1 seed.
I believe Duke has blown double digit leads in all six losses and in every one they were right there with chances to win.
Do I think Bagley should play less? Yes. But many are overlooking that in the last two games, our three main shooters are 8-41 from three. Grayson is 4-21. If we can't hit shots, it's hard to win. We're not as deep in the backcourt as we traditionally are either. Had we even shot a decent percentage last night, the game wouldn't have been very close. Or if we didn't in bound the ball to Duval. Or Carter's grab got called. Or Grayson's foul on the last shot (but that's never called). But mostly our poor shooting lost that game.
Tough loss last night,we let that one get away...time to re focus and get ready for Sat.night.Senior night for Grayson,i'm predicting we play our most complete game of the year.A one seed is still not out of the question if we win out,but we should not fall below the 2 line
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2 things stood out to me..
In the last 2 minutes Duke had a chance for a fast break and Alex was wide open for 5-10 seconds on the wing for a wide open 3 and Grayson decided to pull it out to run clock, he almost passed it to him twice but decided not to. This is great but it was also a chance for a wide open shot by a good shooter versus an end of the clock possession with no spacing and a forced pass and shot. I understand using clock but I also understand you take chances when they come up and take advantage of the numbers.
The second is why did Duval get the inbounds, he is 61 percent free throw shooter, come on man! I looked over at my 2 boys and said if he misses the front end of this Duke is in big trouble, just makes no sense to have the subs we ran in there.........there is also a reason they let him catch the ball on the full court press.....just sayin
In the last 2 minutes Duke had a chance for a fast break and Alex was wide open for 5-10 seconds on the wing for a wide open 3 and Grayson decided to pull it out to run clock, he almost passed it to him twice but decided not to. This is great but it was also a chance for a wide open shot by a good shooter versus an end of the clock possession with no spacing and a forced pass and shot. I understand using clock but I also understand you take chances when they come up and take advantage of the numbers.
The second is why did Duval get the inbounds, he is 61 percent free throw shooter, come on man! I looked over at my 2 boys and said if he misses the front end of this Duke is in big trouble, just makes no sense to have the subs we ran in there.........there is also a reason they let him catch the ball on the full court press.....just sayin
Our defense adjusted, and I'd say much better than any of us could have expected.
Bagley and the team will re-acclimate with this week of practice.
K will adjust the offense and we put both sides of the ball together and become the beast this team was expected to be all season.
Win over UNC will give us a boost going into ACCT.
Win over Virginia in ACCT will give us a boost going into the NCAAT.
Nets will be cut and all will be right with the world.
Bagley and the team will re-acclimate with this week of practice.
K will adjust the offense and we put both sides of the ball together and become the beast this team was expected to be all season.
Win over UNC will give us a boost going into ACCT.
Win over Virginia in ACCT will give us a boost going into the NCAAT.
Nets will be cut and all will be right with the world.
Teams have adjusted to Duke. We are into February, and our freshmen have played enough for teams to find any weaknesses. Bagley's is his lack of strength and only going left. Duval can't move out there with 2 bigs, and defenses sag off him due to him being a weak shooter, and that makes it tougher on our bigs. Trent is a streaky shooter, and if his shot isn't falling, he disappears, or it looks that way.
Grayson isn't a true point guard, and games like last night where he had NO good option, he forced things.
Grayson isn't a true point guard, and games like last night where he had NO good option, he forced things.
Duke just has to get better at end-game scenarios. That starts with guard play for sure - Allen was not good at all in the last few minutes. Guard play and managing late-games are hallmarks of successful teams in March. Since ACC play began with the BC game way back when, Duke has had five games decided by 5 points or fewer - and Duke lost every one of them (@BC, UVA, @ St. John's, @UNC, @VT). Granted, four out of the five were away, and the other was against the #1 team in the nation. But those are the kinds of games you have to win 4 or 5 of in a row (at least) to be the last team standing - there aren't a lot of blowouts in March.
Those numbers don't preclude success or anything - barring a South Carolina in South Carolina scenario again, Duke won't play any more true away games. But even on neutral courts, they just have to be better late in games. It would be helpful if Duke closed the season well, starting with Saturday, to avoid sharing an opening round pod with UNC and their faithful.
I don't mean to sound too pessimistic. There are still abundant possibilities with this group, and I will be watching every second like normal. They have the talent to be one of those teams playing in April.
Those numbers don't preclude success or anything - barring a South Carolina in South Carolina scenario again, Duke won't play any more true away games. But even on neutral courts, they just have to be better late in games. It would be helpful if Duke closed the season well, starting with Saturday, to avoid sharing an opening round pod with UNC and their faithful.
I don't mean to sound too pessimistic. There are still abundant possibilities with this group, and I will be watching every second like normal. They have the talent to be one of those teams playing in April.
We lost that game because our shots weren't falling. That's fixable. I don't put this loss in the same category as BC or St Johns. This loss was to a solid opponent in a rematch game at their house. Should have won, but big picture.... win Saturday and make it to the ACCT championship game and I don't see this game hurting Duke that bad.
We struggle in the half court but we have to keep playing this pace, our defense has been far too good as compared to earlier. Our passing lanes are small windows, either we aren’t cutting hard enough or just too many big bodies clogging up lanes. We need to have better focus and be strong with the ball, every pass needs to be crisp and we need to work the ball in and out, that is where we are most effective.
I’m fine taking a lot of 3’s, but the quality of shots need to get better, it will help keep our percentage high. I think our offense gets stagnant at times especially on the road when the energy in the building is high. When we are focused and make strong passes and are strong with the ball and work it inside out, good things generally happen.
Grayson and Gary are fighting through a mini shooting slump, did we really expect them to keep shooting at a 60% clip the rest of the year.
No more road games, it is now time to go to war with the guys we have. One game at a time, let’s get it done, there is no doubt we have enough to win it all. We have flaws, so does everyone else. I like our guys.
I’m fine taking a lot of 3’s, but the quality of shots need to get better, it will help keep our percentage high. I think our offense gets stagnant at times especially on the road when the energy in the building is high. When we are focused and make strong passes and are strong with the ball and work it inside out, good things generally happen.
Grayson and Gary are fighting through a mini shooting slump, did we really expect them to keep shooting at a 60% clip the rest of the year.
No more road games, it is now time to go to war with the guys we have. One game at a time, let’s get it done, there is no doubt we have enough to win it all. We have flaws, so does everyone else. I like our guys.
A true point guard does not take 15 3s. Y’all can put things on Bagley all you want but Bagley wasn’t close to the reason we lost last night. Our guards didn’t make shots and turned the ball over 12 times. We average over 80 points a game so scoring is not really a problem besides last night. Actually the 4 games we didn’t have Bagley we scored below our season average every time. We only hit 80 once which was at home. We don’t play well in true road games. That’s just what it is.
It comes down to these road games. We aren’t good on the road. The youngsters just can’t seem to handle it. We are 6-5 on the road. The only decent road wins we have had was Clemson and Miami. Clemson was without their point guard. Gary Trent and Duval took over Miami game. But outside of that we just aren’t good on the road. We don’t execute well and we gon on long scoring droughts. We relax after getting a lead start taking bad shots and turning the ball over. That’s just what it is
Didn’t get to see the game except for the last two minutes, but I don’t understand why K immediately has Bags right back at 36 minutes.
The positive is the defense as it’s been consistently holding teams down lately. Turnovers are still a big issue. Hard to fathom a 5 point lead with the ball and less than two minutes and lose.
The positive is the defense as it’s been consistently holding teams down lately. Turnovers are still a big issue. Hard to fathom a 5 point lead with the ball and less than two minutes and lose.
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