We got a 5* big that can protect the rim sitting on the bench
***DUKE VS MICHIGAN STATE OFFICIAL GAMEDAY THREAD***
- Thread starter krzyzewskiville
- Start date
Not much to say. MSU outplayed us in every phase of the game except free throw shooting. We made our free throws tonight. OFC
I just watched parts of the game. Probably my last until the COVID bs is over. It’s hard to get excited watching scrimmage games.
Hopefully not a portent for what we will see going through the season but a learning experience against a good opponent for the first time. In Coach K I trust.....
I thought the guys played much harder the last 7 to 8 minutes… Goldwire provided a spark and we probably need his leadership and toughness down the stretch even though he’s not our prototypical point guard but when Jalen struggles they all struggle… Moore has definitely not progressed a great deal and Hurt can be productive as long as he picks his spots but we must get production out of Williams, Coleman or Tape eventually. I think Steward, Roach and Brakefield are fine we just can’t depend on them to be our go to guy is against veteran top 10 teams.
Still early in the season - hang in there guys...
Still early in the season - hang in there guys...
No team identity yet for this group. This is why you need exhibition games, games against lesser talented teams, etc. Not happy, but what can you do?
We got alot of work to do. Wish we still had Elon to play before Illinois!!! We could use an extra game to get things going the right direction.
OFC
OFC
Hurt was good. 21 and 13 against a good team is about as good as we could hope for. Unfortunately the story of the game is this, Baker, Moore, Steward and Johnson combined for 4-30 shooting. All 4 makes by Johnson. If they hit a measly 40% of those shots we win fairly easily. Oh well, learn and move on.
Caught a coaches round table & they stated Iso offense is what draws recruits. Pin down screens and post play is out. Duke has followed suit.
Illinois runs spread with screens galore & handoffs which confuses the hell out of weak defenses especially when the ball is reversed.
Illinois runs spread with screens galore & handoffs which confuses the hell out of weak defenses especially when the ball is reversed.
Just finished watching the game. Not a very good team so far. We have one good player, and a bunch of role players.
Good news is it’s early. Maybe they get better as the year goes along, something we haven’t done lately.
Good news is it’s early. Maybe they get better as the year goes along, something we haven’t done lately.
I miss when we had 3-4 guys on the floor who could hit an open shot
Coach K is getting worse. He makes no adjustments. He’s so hell bent on this 5 out foolishness. The defense never changes. It’s just bad coaching. I don’t blame the players. We clearly see Moore isn’t an impactful player but he keeps logging all these minutes. Hurt doesn’t need to play the 5 period. Is it a crime to put jalen at the 3 and play a big man? Going to be a long year until he realizes we need to play a traditional lineup. Itlol help us offensively and defemsively
I feel the same way. I’m not even mad that they lost because it doesn’t feel like college hoops. It feels like kids trying to impress scouts more than anything. Like watching a grown up AAU game. No fans absolutely suck. I haven’t watched any sports until tonight and it will probably be the last for a while.
Still gathering my thoughts. Glad we fought til the end and didn't get blown out. Still; letting them go on that epic run to close the first half and start the second is just shocking. The game was over with 15 minutes to go. The sad part is I'm not even mad; just deflated. It's been that kind of year. Keep it competitive with Illinois and then slowly work on improving.
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Agreed the game with Illinois could be a ugly game as well for Duke.
I'll tell y'all what though, if we had the Zion Crew this year we'd go undefeated. There is not one team in the country they wouldn't throttle by 25.
Zags are a team I don't think we throttle with Zion and company.
It’s like watching a scrimmage where after it’s over the coaches thank each other for giving their team a different look
Ugh that was not very enjoyable to watch. Clunky offense. Lack of creativity. Poor effort. Have to wonder if this team has It. There is time, but need to keep as many games as possible.
I disagree. Their team that year was better than this version. The competition is just weak nationally. Kansas clearly isn't as good as advertised, they could barely handle a UK team that Richmond throttled at Rupp.
They definitely could, that I can assure you. That team blasted teams much better than this Zags squad. Gonzaga looks great because everyone else looks bad.
Now that I have had time to breathe and reflect.... I’m going to just say.. it’s game 2. MSU came out and punched us in the mouth and we showed some life but not for 40 mins. I think the big thing that hurt is the first 5-7 minutes of the game... our defense was on point and we were getting out in transition but weren’t getting anything to fall.. if we convert on those we might be talking differently, but we didn’t.
This year will be unlike any other.. all games are going to feel like neutral court games with no crowd influence.. which means if you aren’t ready for a 40 minute fight you will take an L against anyone.
Now... let’s be honest, I don’t see Wendell, DJ and roach all shooting that poorly from the field in the same game very often. TOs need to be cut down and more movement off the ball on offense... this is all stuff that can be worked on in practice and executed better. let’s see how this team adjusts esp the next 2 games. This year more then any other I don’t see a clear cut favorite.. it’s wide open.
Hang in there... going to be long ride. Stay safe!
This year will be unlike any other.. all games are going to feel like neutral court games with no crowd influence.. which means if you aren’t ready for a 40 minute fight you will take an L against anyone.
Now... let’s be honest, I don’t see Wendell, DJ and roach all shooting that poorly from the field in the same game very often. TOs need to be cut down and more movement off the ball on offense... this is all stuff that can be worked on in practice and executed better. let’s see how this team adjusts esp the next 2 games. This year more then any other I don’t see a clear cut favorite.. it’s wide open.
Hang in there... going to be long ride. Stay safe!
Not the end of the world. All depends on how we’re playing come March. This is the risk we take recruiting OADs every year. Izzo is great coach with an experienced team. We just doesn’t have the talent as teams in the past nor are we very experienced. Hopefully we can find some spark through out the year.
Agreed on the lack of "team identity." This team appears to have NO TRUE LEADER yet, although there are several who potentially can take the reigns. Do we have that one guy who despises losing like a Tre or Tyus, a Zion, Grayson or Battier?? The player who will pull the team together and "refuse to lose???!!!" Only time will tell.
Other musings: its obvious we need a big on the court, and we cannot just expect Matthew/Jalen to clear the boards after one shot. Outside shooting I was thinking would be improved this year??? Time will tell on all these variables, and in our coaching staff I trust.
One last observation: I totally agree about the empty seats (except for Mickie, lol) not generating excitement.Cameron seemed like a morgue without THE CRAZIES. That especially hurts a young team trying to come back. Maybe it means 4-5 points, etc and that factor alone could put up a few more L's this year.
Total props to Izzo and his club. They played most of the game like men vs boys, and imposed their will. Wow, I think Wojo lost a pretty decent player in Howser.....
#GoDevilsForLife
OFC
Ok, we failed our first early season test. No shame in losing to a Michigan State team, that we were blowing out and had chances to come back at the end. I’m encouraged by the fight. Clean up some mistakes and we’ll be alright. Just didn’t understand why any of the bigs didn’t play as much. I like Hurt at the 5–in spurts—not for the majority of the game. We don’t have a set starting 5. I was disappointed with Wendell Moore. He has to play better than that. I was VERY encouraged with the fight from Brakefield.
Like many, I am disappointed, but it's been such a wacky year, I'm just not as UP for the season as normal. I wonder if players and staff are feeling the same way? Look, in a "normal" year, this was a loss to a top 10 team by 6 points, but no means a black mark of death on our resume.
I agree the 5 out was painful to watch towards the end, but it's nothing we have not seen before. I thought State learned early on in the first half that Duke guys couldn't consistently beat them off the dribble across the board, so that locked up tight, and shut us down. How many times did Moore, Stewart, and others find themselves in the lane totally stuffed, and the kickout for a 3 wasn't there. The other thing that sticks out is down the stretch we had it under 10 with the ball, under 5 minutes and Baker airballs a wide open three, someone else completely misses iron, and Hurt banks one in from the top of the key.
Anyway, I thought State's defense was very good, and they got some good offensive performance from a few guys. They are a solid top 10 team, no shame in the loss, just some things to improve on as the season goes on.....whatever that looks like.
I agree the 5 out was painful to watch towards the end, but it's nothing we have not seen before. I thought State learned early on in the first half that Duke guys couldn't consistently beat them off the dribble across the board, so that locked up tight, and shut us down. How many times did Moore, Stewart, and others find themselves in the lane totally stuffed, and the kickout for a 3 wasn't there. The other thing that sticks out is down the stretch we had it under 10 with the ball, under 5 minutes and Baker airballs a wide open three, someone else completely misses iron, and Hurt banks one in from the top of the key.
Anyway, I thought State's defense was very good, and they got some good offensive performance from a few guys. They are a solid top 10 team, no shame in the loss, just some things to improve on as the season goes on.....whatever that looks like.
It was an ugly performance, but there are some positives from this game Duke can build on. The season is young.
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Duke vs. Michigan State Game Recap and Main Takeaways |
Duke jumped out to a quick 13-3 lead and looked about as impressive as anyone could have hoped in the first five minutes. The team was flying around on defense, deflecting a number of passes and forcing turnovers. Offensively, there was plenty of movement and Duke was doing a great job of...
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Take away Moore's 3 absurd turnovers (2 off his foot, the other a mad dash into a crowd) and his 2 long ill advised 3 pointers, and we have 5 more possessions to do something with the ball. He is still a ball stopper on offense also. He is a disappointment to me.
Steward and Roach look like 2 guys who should be in prep school getting ready for their freshman season next year. Assuming neither does something stupid like turning pro, they are a good combo for next year. I can see why Duke can't or isn't recruiting a point guard this year-they should have 2 good ones next year. This year will be a learning season for the 2 skinny little guys.
Hurt is certainly better and more aggressive than last year. He does everything he can. But he's not a lane clogger on defense. He's a prototypical 4 being told to play out of position.
Surprised we didn't see anything from Tape or Coleman. Were they injured or sick? It's not like the guys on the court were doing great things.
Steward and Roach look like 2 guys who should be in prep school getting ready for their freshman season next year. Assuming neither does something stupid like turning pro, they are a good combo for next year. I can see why Duke can't or isn't recruiting a point guard this year-they should have 2 good ones next year. This year will be a learning season for the 2 skinny little guys.
Hurt is certainly better and more aggressive than last year. He does everything he can. But he's not a lane clogger on defense. He's a prototypical 4 being told to play out of position.
Surprised we didn't see anything from Tape or Coleman. Were they injured or sick? It's not like the guys on the court were doing great things.
huh? What does OADs have to do with losing to MSU last night? We may only have one (Johnson) on this team. OADs beat experienced Kansas and MSU last year (both away from Duke). We actually returned more this season than in most seasons. With the unusual college basketball season due to COVID, it certainly helps to have experience in the beginning. We beat Kansas last year at the beginning of the season but by the end of the season, they we’re probably the No.1 overall seed in the NCAA Tournament. We’re young but our experienced players haven’t stepped up like we need them to, so I’m not sure what OADs have to do with our loss last night.
I mean, as of today, Johnson *should* be the only OAD from this team. We actually got the make up of a team a lot of fans have claimed they’ve been wanting (returning McDonald’s All-Americans in Hurt and Moore), experience (Goldwire, Baker and even a Grad transfer). Why the complaints?
all that we saw and it still was a 6 point loss.....lot of missed threes....MSU hit shots....also thinking as some have already said, our best 3pt shooter cant be entrenched in the paint....he needs to be on the outside to stretch the floor and open driving lanes
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This really isn't an accurate, or fair comment. It's early, and only 2 games, but Baker is way too hyper, and Moore doesn't resemble anything close to a pro talent. Goldwire is at his ceiling. He is what he is. What we will see is if K still has it. If we improve, he will get credit, as he should. If we don't, how much does he own? None of us recruited these kids. We are merely fans.
huh? You must have missed the comments from fans who stated we recruited too many OADs, who wanted some of those burger boys to return (a statement many have made for the last 3 years). Well, they got their wish along with incoming players who shouldn’t be OADs. So....
That was a painful game to watch. Our offense looked like it belongs in the toilet, no moving, everyone standing around. We can win standing around when we have an RJ Barrett attacking the rim, this team doesn't have a guy like that.
The Negatives: -Johnson was bad, what was even worse was he would compound his mistakes into additional mistakes, he was lazy on defense too. He has to be really good for us to be elite.
-We had a chance to put the game away early. When we went to some bench guys (Goldwire, Baker, Williams) our lead dwindled and we never recovered, MSU's bench DESTROYED our bench.
-Baker played one of the worst games I can remember seeing a Duke scholarship player play.
Positives: Brakefield was a breath of fresh air, looks like he will be getting Baker's minutes moving forward.
-Hurt played really really hard. He's not Bagley, Carey, or Zion down on the block, but he seems like the best guy to run our half court offense through. He still needs to finish stronger though, missed some bunnies.
The Negatives: -Johnson was bad, what was even worse was he would compound his mistakes into additional mistakes, he was lazy on defense too. He has to be really good for us to be elite.
-We had a chance to put the game away early. When we went to some bench guys (Goldwire, Baker, Williams) our lead dwindled and we never recovered, MSU's bench DESTROYED our bench.
-Baker played one of the worst games I can remember seeing a Duke scholarship player play.
Positives: Brakefield was a breath of fresh air, looks like he will be getting Baker's minutes moving forward.
-Hurt played really really hard. He's not Bagley, Carey, or Zion down on the block, but he seems like the best guy to run our half court offense through. He still needs to finish stronger though, missed some bunnies.
So far the only one is Goldwire, but he hasn't got the talent to carry a team. He is a great spark, hard worker and has been a tremendous asset to Duke (Louisville game being the best case in point), but despite playing above himself at times just is not the level to carry a falling team. He can do what he does - overwork and spark/goad the better talent into working harder.
I watched the game late last night. Yuck.
In a sense, it was like watching the 2014 team. Talented players that at this time don't seem to fit together. Also, watching a college basketball game with no atmosphere is tough.
I think Matthew Hurt is our best scorer. Not our best player, mind you, but he can score. His biggest issue is still his strength though. He doesn't like a lot of contact.
Our best player is Jalen Johnson. Problem is, he falls more in line with traditional freshmen from years ago. Very, very good player who on some nights will look like an All-American and the next like a true freshman.
Joey Baker reminds me so much of Alex Murphy. You want the kid to break out so bad and just hope a lightbulb goes off....but it doesn't happen. Roach and Steward are nice players who will be really good players if they stick around a few years. Not sure they can provide the consistency we will need from them this season, though.
I think we're being a little hard on Wendell right now. It was much easier for him last year with Tre, Vernon, Cassisus and even Hurt, to an extent, being the guys before him on the totem pole. Many of his opportunities came because those kinds of players were on the floor. We don't appreciate how much attention Vernon demanded on a nightly basis, thus opening it up for others.
Last year we had Tre, the prior year Zion and RJ. Before them it was Bagley, Grayson, Jayson, Luke, BI, etc. We don't have an offensive talent on this team like any of those guys I mentioned. Not even close. There were times last night where you just sat puzzled and wondered....how the heck do we score? It looked that painful.
This is a really odd year, as we all already know. And expect more curveballs, or maybe even knuckleballs, to be thrown our way between now and March. We just have to hope that as a team this group can continually get better. They have their work cut out for them.
In a sense, it was like watching the 2014 team. Talented players that at this time don't seem to fit together. Also, watching a college basketball game with no atmosphere is tough.
I think Matthew Hurt is our best scorer. Not our best player, mind you, but he can score. His biggest issue is still his strength though. He doesn't like a lot of contact.
Our best player is Jalen Johnson. Problem is, he falls more in line with traditional freshmen from years ago. Very, very good player who on some nights will look like an All-American and the next like a true freshman.
Joey Baker reminds me so much of Alex Murphy. You want the kid to break out so bad and just hope a lightbulb goes off....but it doesn't happen. Roach and Steward are nice players who will be really good players if they stick around a few years. Not sure they can provide the consistency we will need from them this season, though.
I think we're being a little hard on Wendell right now. It was much easier for him last year with Tre, Vernon, Cassisus and even Hurt, to an extent, being the guys before him on the totem pole. Many of his opportunities came because those kinds of players were on the floor. We don't appreciate how much attention Vernon demanded on a nightly basis, thus opening it up for others.
Last year we had Tre, the prior year Zion and RJ. Before them it was Bagley, Grayson, Jayson, Luke, BI, etc. We don't have an offensive talent on this team like any of those guys I mentioned. Not even close. There were times last night where you just sat puzzled and wondered....how the heck do we score? It looked that painful.
This is a really odd year, as we all already know. And expect more curveballs, or maybe even knuckleballs, to be thrown our way between now and March. We just have to hope that as a team this group can continually get better. They have their work cut out for them.
