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Season ending thoughts

I like you Liftee, but we all know what a break it was beating Houston to get to the Elite 8. They were a slightly handcuffed team before Shead went down in the first half. We barely beat them, and the two teams we beat before them shouldn't scare a blue blood. Yet there were many concerned about James Madison. That should tell us plenty about the general view of Duke at that point.
This team had plenty of struggles during the season, and it sadly almost seems fitting that we lost to State.

Symbolic of our season.

I’m going to disagree here.. I think we came out that game got punched in the mouth and jon called the TO and our toughness went through the roof. We might not would have won ultimately but we were playing right with them with him in there.. I actually think we won regardless and might would have won by more
 
I like you Liftee, but we all know what a break it was beating Houston to get to the Elite 8. They were a slightly handcuffed team before Shead went down in the first half. We barely beat them, and the two teams we beat before them shouldn't scare a blue blood. Yet there were many concerned about James Madison. That should tell us plenty about the general view of Duke at that point.
This team had plenty of struggles during the season, and it sadly almost seems fitting that we lost to State.

Symbolic of our season.

Still have to show up and play the games Mac. Other Blue Bloods and better seeded teams were choking and losing in earlier rounds such as Kentucky, Kansas, Auburn, Marquette, unc. Also, the Shead injury is being overblown, he had scored his first basket of the game when he rolled his ankle, Duke had held him to 1 of 5 shooting from the field at that point and he only had scored 2 points. Houston was up 6 with 6 minutes left before halftime. No one knows what would have happened if he does not get injured. As the saying goes, “if my aunt had nuts she would be my uncle.” Point being, just because you’re the better seeded team doesn’t mean you automatically move onto the next round just because of your program’s history etc, Duke played well enough to be one of the Elite 8 teams playing on the 2nd to last weekend of the season.
 
I respect both you guys, but we just gonna have to agree to disagree. They were already down a player before the game. Shead was all American, their coach on the floor. His value was similar to what Battier’s was,

Losing him in the first half was the turning point, and a huge blow to their confidence. They were up 6 in a low scoring game.
 
That will keep going. It’s too hard to win. Duke may never win another one in our lifetime. Same with Kentucky, same with Kansas, same with Unc so I’m not trying to bag on just Duke’s chances.
It took 9 Final Fours to finally win one. And with much tougher Duke teams trying to do it.
Jeez man....this is a glass completely empty outlook.
 
I respect both you guys, but we just gonna have to agree to disagree. They were already down a player before the game. Shead was all American, their coach on the floor. His value was similar to what Battier’s was,

Losing him in the first half was the turning point, and a huge blow to their confidence. They were up 6 in a low scoring game.
You know who was also down a player before the game? Duke. It’s funny, no one (pundits) mentioned Foster’s loss just like they overlooked Mark Mitchell’s injury last year. At this point, every team has injury issues. We either mention everyone’s injury or none at all.
 
We will figure it out. Just a reminder that it took these coaches this long to win a title...

Pat Summitt: 13
Tara VanDerveer: 12
Dawn Staley: 17
John Wooden: 18
Mike Krzyzewski: 16
Geno Auriemma: 10
Roy Williams: 17
Jay Wright: 22


Edit: Just found this list on Twitter


Jim Boeheim - Year 27
Jim Calhoun - Year 27
Jay Wright - Year 22
Dean Smith - Year 21
John Calipari - Year 20
John Wooden - Year 18
Roy Williams - Year 17
Coach K - Year 16
Bill Self - Year 15
Tony Bennett - Year 13
Dan Hurley - Year 13
Bob Knight - Year 11
 
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Imo, the NCAA Men’s Basketball Tournament is the most difficult post season tournament to win. It’s not a best of 7 series, your team must be Disciplined for 6-7 straight games to cut down the nets.
 
Also, the top of the homepage needs to be updated to 5 time National Champions.

High school McDonald’s All American Game tonight at 9pm ET on ESPN. Opportunity to get a look at Flagg and Evans (Baby Brandon Ingram)
 
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I was thinking last night that winning at all is hard. I believe UCLA has one title since Wooden. Indiana zero since Knight.
I think Indiana won one with Davis, then fired him soon thereafter and has been mediocre at best since then.


Long term success is much more important and I strongly believe that's what we'll get with Coach Scheyer.
 
We saw a title slip by us in 2018 because we had a generational talent in Zion but didn’t have shooters around him. We can’t do the same next year with Flagg.
 
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You know who was also down a player before the game? Duke. It’s funny, no one (pundits) mentioned Foster’s loss just like they overlooked Mark Mitchell’s injury last year. At this point, every team has injury issues. We either mention everyone’s injury or none at all.
Foster's injury has been mentioned since he's been out. As was one of Houston's rotational player. But it's a huge difference losing a key rotational guy in the regular season (where you can make lineup adjustments) as compared to an All American in the first half of a game against Duke with the Elite 8 on the line.

I don't think some of you realize just how important he was to Houston.
 
Shead was their best player and their Leader. Player of The Year Candidate and Defensive Player of The Year Candidate. The Kid is a Heck of a Competitor. I hate when players get injured because I want Teams at Their Absolute Best. I think most of us who follow the mens college game as closely as we do on here know how Important Shead is to the Cougars. Mac, I Respect You and Your takes on Here. I just think Liftee, Pisgah’s, and my viewpoints on here are just trying to say it’s unfair to say Duke would have lost the game automatically had Shead never gotten injured. Scheyer did call the timeout after the first 6 minutes of the game had started and Houston although they were one of the best defensive teams in the country were at the same time a team accustomed to going through long scoring droughts and allowing teams to hang around with Shead in the lineup.
 
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Jeez man....this is a glass completely empty outlook.

Was only looking at it from a historical context though, which includes Duke’s own history as they were once known as the “best program without a National Title.” 0-8 in FF trips vs Titles and then they won 5 in their next 9 trips. Even the biggest machines in the sport had to wait a few decades in-between titles. Kentucky went 1958-1978. And then 1978-1996. Heels went 1957-1982. UCLA went 1975-1995. Indiana who won 5 in 8 trips hasn’t won one since 1987. Last Final Four was 22 years ago.

It’s so tough to win and seems to be tougher even though you don’t get legendary teams hardly anymore because the players don’t stay around.
 
I look at it like this

Scheyer gets 2 grades for the season

Regular season C+ face it, in a year where no team was dominant in the ACC, returning a lot of good players brought huge expectations and we fell completely flat. We lost to a lot of teams that ended up with terrible records and most games ( even though we won a lot) Duke was playing some ugly basketball. Player development seemed non existent at times with the biggest question marks being Mitchell and proctor. They should’ve made a bigger jump and Mitchell lacks so much there’s a real concern as to what he can bring to the team.

B+ for ncaa tournament. Give credit to where credit is due. I was deeply scared Duke wouldn’t last 2 rounds let alone 1. We won 3 March games

Vermont we looked horrible
Jmu we looked fantastic
Houston we looked good
Nc state first half decent
Second half terrible.

I’d give him an A but I’m still disgusted as to how the second half played out. It isn’t his fault our guys couldn’t score, but he allowed burns to do whatever he wanted. We should’ve adjusted to double team him once he started dribbling but we allowed him to beat us. Also how the heck were we tired? We played 4 games in a span of two weeks. Nc state played 9 in that same span. I don’t care how tough Houston played… also playing more of a half court game vs nc state was just really dumb . We haven’t looked great in the half court all year besides a few games like JMU and even then that was more fast break styled.


We’ll see what happens next year it’s only year two but the lack of player development and the misuse of the portal are huge areas that need improvement
 
It isn’t his fault our guys couldn’t score, but he allowed burns to do whatever he wanted. We should’ve adjusted to double team him once he started dribbling but we allowed him to beat us.
Yeah, we were a pitiful 5-20 from the three. The defense on Burns was as pitiful. He was 13-19 from the floor, and they were 3-13 from the three. We never adjusted.
 
I look at it like this

Scheyer gets 2 grades for the season

Regular season C+ face it, in a year where no team was dominant in the ACC, returning a lot of good players brought huge expectations and we fell completely flat. We lost to a lot of teams that ended up with terrible records and most games ( even though we won a lot) Duke was playing some ugly basketball. Player development seemed non existent at times with the biggest question marks being Mitchell and proctor. They should’ve made a bigger jump and Mitchell lacks so much there’s a real concern as to what he can bring to the team.

B+ for ncaa tournament. Give credit to where credit is due. I was deeply scared Duke wouldn’t last 2 rounds let alone 1. We won 3 March games

Vermont we looked horrible
Jmu we looked fantastic
Houston we looked good
Nc state first half decent
Second half terrible.

I’d give him an A but I’m still disgusted as to how the second half played out. It isn’t his fault our guys couldn’t score, but he allowed burns to do whatever he wanted. We should’ve adjusted to double team him once he started dribbling but we allowed him to beat us. Also how the heck were we tired? We played 4 games in a span of two weeks. Nc state played 9 in that same span. I don’t care how tough Houston played… also playing more of a half court game vs nc state was just really dumb . We haven’t looked great in the half court all year besides a few games like JMU and even then that was more fast break styled.


We’ll see what happens next year it’s only year two but the lack of player development and the misuse of the portal are huge areas that need improvement
I agree with all except the misuse of the portal . It is hard to get players to buy in to coming to a team loaded with talent . NIL and playing team is a huge must have for these players entering the portal.
 
I think Indiana won one with Davis, then fired him soon thereafter and has been mediocre at best since then.


Long term success is much more important and I strongly believe that's what we'll get with Coach Scheyer.
No Indiana didn’t win with Davis, went to title game in ‘02 and lost to Maryland
 
Foster's injury has been mentioned since he's been out. As was one of Houston's rotational player. But it's a huge difference losing a key rotational guy in the regular season (where you can make lineup adjustments) as compared to an All American in the first half of a game against Duke with the Elite 8 on the line.

I don't think some of you realize just how important he was to Houston.
I said the pundits didn’t mention Foster’s injury. No, I’m not saying Shead and Foster are equal and yes what Shed does makes Houston go, but Foster’s injury left little guard depth when playing 3 guards nearly 40 minutes IN POSTSEASON. Foster was also able to run point as well. His injury was significant without him being our best player, just like Mitchell’s last season.
 
I think some people are forgetting Duke has an admissions department and we can’t admit the players we want in the portal unless they meet the requirements. We’re not alone either. Caleb Love would be at Michigan if they accepted his trash grades from unc. Some schools don’t have higher academic standards and can accept any player.
 
Fair end result. We probably lose versus Houston without the injury and we should have defeated NC State.

High risk, high reward. Almost ACC title. Almost Final Four. Ultimately neither and a team that will likely be forgotten. Almost Scheyer's first memorable team. Onto next season.
 
I said the pundits didn’t mention Foster’s injury. No, I’m not saying Shead and Foster are equal and yes what Shed does makes Houston go, but Foster’s injury left little guard depth when playing 3 guards nearly 40 minutes IN POSTSEASON. Foster was also able to run point as well. His injury was significant without him being our best player, just like Mitchell’s last season.
we were a different team after the foster injury. Teams started wearing us down. Dudes were visibly tired in the second half of nc state game. Shots that were automatic this year for McCain and roach were hitting the front of the rim. I think it (negatively) impacted proctor more than anyone. I still don’t think we were as good as UConn or Purdue with foster though. (or unc) We had no inside presence on d. Purdue would have destroyed us.
 
we were a different team after the foster injury. Teams started wearing us down. Dudes were visibly tired in the second half of nc state game. Shots that were automatic this year for McCain and roach were hitting the front of the rim. I think it (negatively) impacted proctor more than anyone. I still don’t think we were as good as UConn or Purdue with foster though. (or unc) We had no inside presence on d. Purdue would have destroyed us.
Agreed here. We had the guard depth to absorb losing Foster initially, but all three of them began playing 36-40 mpg and it wore them down. Foster was also so good with the ball in his hands it took away a true PG.
 
My only year ending thought is that Danny Hurley has turned UConn into an absolute juggernaut and there is no indication whatsoever that will change as long as he's there.

He's the best coach in the country and that gap seems to be widening by the day.

It's fascinating to me that he and Bobby's coaching careers are the exact inverse of their college playing careers. Can't remember if I mentioned that before.
 
My only year ending thought is that Danny Hurley has turned UConn into an absolute juggernaut and there is no indication whatsoever that will change as long as he's there.

He's the best coach in the country and that gap seems to be widening by the day.

It's fascinating to me that he and Bobby's coaching careers are the exact inverse of their college playing careers. Can't remember if I mentioned that before.
Danny is proof that usually your better coaches weren't really good players. He's a Hurley, and we all know they whine. He's also brash and arrogant, but he backs it up.

A few years ago, he warned everyone that UConn was coming.
 
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My only year ending thought is that Danny Hurley has turned UConn into an absolute juggernaut and there is no indication whatsoever that will change as long as he's there.

He's the best coach in the country and that gap seems to be widening by the day.

It's fascinating to me that he and Bobby's coaching careers are the exact inverse of their college playing careers. Can't remember if I mentioned that before.
I mean we’ll see. Calipari was supposed to be a juggernaut at uk as well (yes I know he has more rings than Cal). Danny could bolt to the NBA, although his antics won’t work there. He’s the @sshole most thought K was. Can you image K getting away with the stuff he does/says?
 
I mean we’ll see. Calipari was supposed to be a juggernaut at uk as well (yes I know he has more rings than Cal). Danny could bolt to the NBA, although his antics won’t work there. He’s the @sshole most thought K was. Can you image K getting away with the stuff he does/says?


Yeah Hurley has said some really arrogant things. K would've been pilloried for saying them.

But fellas, he has them absolutely rolling.

And I never worried about Calipari. He's all flash. And he also had the obstacle of obstacles: Coach K

I'm much more worried about UConn. Danny seems to have figured out how to coach legit toughness along with brilliant strategy/tactics.

Edit to add: when I mentioned strategy/tactics. Take a look at this. And notice Sam Dekker's comment.




They're going to be a major problem as long as he's there. And who's standing in his way? He doesn't have a Coach K nemesis like Cal did. Self? Izzo? Nah.

I mean I'd obviously love it if Scheyer evolves into that but he's certainly not there now.
 
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Yeah Hurley has said some really arrogant things. K would've been pilloried for saying them.

But fellas, he has them absolutely rolling.

And I never worried about Calipari. He's all flash. And he also had the obstacle of obstacles: Coach K

I'm much more worried about UConn. Danny seems to have figured out how to coach legit toughness along with brilliant strategy/tactics.

They're going to be a major problem as long as he's there. And who's standing in his way? He doesn't have a Coach K nemesis like Cal did. Self? Izzo? Nah.

I mean I'd obviously love it if Scheyer evolves into that but he's certainly not there now.
Hurley has 14 years of head coaching experience, so Jon has 12 years to catch up.
 
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I’m glad Proctor is back however I agree there needs to be significant improvement.

We need a PG that can create and break down defenses to create for others. So far Proctor is extremely lacking in this area.

I hope he develops and becomes a strength for us moving forward.

No quam about his defense that will be welcome.
 
Yeah Hurley has said some really arrogant things. K would've been pilloried for saying them.

But fellas, he has them absolutely rolling.

And I never worried about Calipari. He's all flash. And he also had the obstacle of obstacles: Coach K

I'm much more worried about UConn. Danny seems to have figured out how to coach legit toughness along with brilliant strategy/tactics.

Edit to add: when I mentioned strategy/tactics. Take a look at this. And notice Sam Dekker's comment.




They're going to be a major problem as long as he's there. And who's standing in his way? He doesn't have a Coach K nemesis like Cal did. Self? Izzo? Nah.

I mean I'd obviously love it if Scheyer evolves into that but he's certainly not there now.
I mean hindsight is always 20/20 and I’m no Cal lover by any means but from 2010-2015, he dominated college basketball—with elite freshmen. 5 Elite 8’s, 4 FF’s, 1 Runner Up and 1 Natty. His model worked…until it didn’t. Hurley’s 2 straight FF’s and Natty’s are certainly elite, but we will see if it’s sustained. Also, outside of this season and last, Hurley’s NCAA Tournament record was subpar (at all of his schools) it’s just the last two seasons have given people amnesia (and for good reason because UCONN has dominated the NCAA Tournament the last two years without a doubt).

It’s so interesting as I don’t know if it’s Hurley or just UCONN. Which would you rather have? Cal’s 2010-2015 run or Hurley’s last two seasons? Cal has 3 more Elite 8’s and 2 more FF’s and one less title where UCONN just has one more title. UCONN—historically—just always gets it done in the championship game. The law of averages will catch up with them soon.
 
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