99 for me, by far. I was kneeling in front of my TV screaming "give it to Avery!" on that last play. I loved Langdon's shot but his ball handling was Blakes level.
Official game day thread Duke vs NC St round 3 ELITE EIGHT ADDITION
- Thread starter pisgah101
- Start date
That one hurts, but '01 washed it away for me personally. Battier is my favorite player, and watching him win was an all-time moment. My favorite team is the '10 team, though. K moving Jon to PG at the end of 08-09, leading into the following year, was a masterclass move.
Brand is my favorite player; Battier a close second. Grant Hill 3rd. I've never seen a freshman so dominant as Brand the second he walked on the court, including Zion. He just dominated down low and instantly made us contenders. That class also made Duke cool, which we weren't before that to the average person.
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Seems off season expectations for the incoming freshmen class are always above what we actually get. And the next class has that same feel. The maturity and experience of 3-4 or 5-year players is undervalued...even sophomores are still young and not ready to compete with more experienced players. But this is Duke's model and has been recently, and one I think JS sticks with. An elite 8 appearance will validate it for some, but if we are honest it was a fortuitous run ( Mac points that out a few posts above) More concerning for me is the lack of development of a style..on either end of the floor....when pressured we collapsed..thats when the discipline of a style/method is needed. We had no go to play for a bucket, or a play to free up someone..just seemed to lose all cohesion. I think JS needs to find his style, recruit for it and stick to it..lets get back to Duke BB...efficient offense and lock down defense.
And Sampson isn’t even a solid coach. If you can’t get past the Sweet 16 when you’re at home, with a stockpile of seniors and the refs hugging your balls like they’re long lost relatives then you suck as a coach.
No amount of cheating and dirty play can lead a coach as inept as him to real success.
I guess if you look at just these last two years the freshmen didn't live up to expectations, although Jared was pretty great this year and Flip was pretty great last year. In the K years, at least one of our freshmen lived up to expectations every year except 21. Paolo, AJ, Vernon, Cassius, RJ, Zion, Bagley, Carter, Tatum, Ingram, Okafor, Jones, Winslow, Parker, Rivers, and Irving were all met or exceeded expectations. Of course each of those classes also had one or more players that underwhelmed. My guess is for the incoming class: Flagg is elite, Maluach and Evans are good (if they end up being great or elite we have a shot at a Final Four) while the others are probably going to underwhelm.
The tournament is home to the old man. The more you have the merrier.
I don’t see how McCain returns unless he gets a crazy amount of nil thrown at him. He will likely be a lottery pick and taken before flip. I strongly believe Proctor will be one of the best players in the country next year.
I believe Flip would have been a different player this year if they would have had a true center. Still, no matter if you get a 5 star that lives up to the hype or not, you still have to surround them with experienced players that have developed winning habits.(valuing possessions, shot selection, free throws) Winning a natty with mostly 1 and dones was already hard. Winning with 1 and dones with the new “free agency” system will be almost impossible.
This puts the season in perspective, a complete failure. 0 ACC tournament wins, didn’t win the conference, no final four
Making an elite 8 is in no way shape or form a complete failure. Come on now.
It's not making the FF that has folks upset, it's the fact that, once again, there was a ton at stake and certain players no showed.
Much like the last UNC game, effort by some key players was severely lacking. No one has a problem if your team goes down swinging, everyone has a problem when some players don't even put the gloves on.
This team, unfortunately, has a few key players that have a lot of "I've done enough" in them.
Winning the title at a program like Duke of course is what everyone wants, and I completely agree the biggest disappointment was the teams lack of effort on some nights. Calling this season a complete failure isn't true though. At the end of the day, you are judged by what you do in the tournament and Duke made an elite 8 run. Won't convince me that's a complete failure.
Yeah. I wasn’t that upset about losing given we went further than I ever imagined this team could go. Its weaknesses were exposed. But elite 8 is not a bad season.
We went from being optimistic about a realistic chance of a 6th title, to watching a hugely underperforming team that appeared to not have enough players invested in team success, back to looking like the team that was projected at the beginning of the season, then back to a dismal effort against a less talented - albeit more experienced and determined - team. What a rollercoaster year of emotions. While I look forward to seeing a Cooper Flagg centric team next year, I’m tempering my expectations. As denverexpat points out, the maturity and experience of older teams makes such a difference.
I'm feeling similar to several above. Going into E8 NC State I was optimistic that we had a real shot at the FF. We had a weak offensive first half, should have been up 15+ points. 3 minutes into the second half it was pretty clear the ugly side of this team was back, and I was reminded that this was our team this year.
If you told me after at the end of ACC play that we would make the E8 I would have laughed. We rarely gelled as a team this year, and we had very inconsistent play from our key players. Not one of our starters could be relied on to really show up every night. Stellar shooting one game was dismal the next. I am not bashing. There were many moments of brilliance and I am proud of all our players and Coach Scheyer, but we are who we are.
It's always sad for me when and Duke basketball season ends. Now begins the long wait for November. What's Chris gonna do with that fridge full of hot dogs and coors light is the real question??
If you told me after at the end of ACC play that we would make the E8 I would have laughed. We rarely gelled as a team this year, and we had very inconsistent play from our key players. Not one of our starters could be relied on to really show up every night. Stellar shooting one game was dismal the next. I am not bashing. There were many moments of brilliance and I am proud of all our players and Coach Scheyer, but we are who we are.
It's always sad for me when and Duke basketball season ends. Now begins the long wait for November. What's Chris gonna do with that fridge full of hot dogs and coors light is the real question??
I will be very glad to see Flip leave. In my mind he has been a very negative influence on this team, both in the locker room and on the floor. Watching him during the game, especially toward the end, was upsetting. He yelled at teammates and coaches, sulked, and whined. He repeatedly made the sames mistakes that have plagued him all year, dribbling in the lane, turnovers, and inability to shoot, let alone hit, short and mid-range jumpers. OFCI'm feeling similar to several above. Going into E8 NC State I was optimistic that we had a real shot at the FF. We had a weak offensive first half, should have been up 15+ points. 3 minutes into the second half it was pretty clear the ugly side of this team was back, and I was reminded that this was our team this year.
If you told me after at the end of ACC play that we would make the E8 I would have laughed. We rarely gelled as a team this year, and we had very inconsistent play from our key players. Not one of our starters could be relied on to really show up every night. Stellar shooting one game was dismal the next. I am not bashing. There were many moments of brilliance and I am proud of all our players and Coach Scheyer, but we are who we are.
It's always sad for me when and Duke basketball season ends. Now begins the long wait for November. What's Chris gonna do with that fridge full of hot dogs and coors light is the real question??
For the season, Flip, Roach, and McCain put up respectable numbers. But we were just an ok team because the other two starters, Proctor and Mitchell, really underperformed. There’s no way to defend their play.
I’m not criticizing these two as people, but on the court neither were what Duke needed. We wound up playing 3 on 5 on offense, so we needed Flip, Roach and McCain to be very similar to our big 3 from 2010, but they weren’t at their level.
Our bench had less offensive ability than Proctor and Mitchell. Maybe Foster could have helped, but I don’t think he was the type of player to help the team over the hump.
I know we made the Elite 8, but again, we caught a major break, and we all know it. Overall, this was a frustrating team to watch.
We now wait to see who leaves, who stays. I’m sorry, but the thought of a junior Mitchell doesn’t get me excited. That may rub some wrong, but I don’t get how an athletic kid that is recruited by a major blue blood can look so awful on offense. And that’s after two seasons.
I’m not criticizing these two as people, but on the court neither were what Duke needed. We wound up playing 3 on 5 on offense, so we needed Flip, Roach and McCain to be very similar to our big 3 from 2010, but they weren’t at their level.
Our bench had less offensive ability than Proctor and Mitchell. Maybe Foster could have helped, but I don’t think he was the type of player to help the team over the hump.
I know we made the Elite 8, but again, we caught a major break, and we all know it. Overall, this was a frustrating team to watch.
We now wait to see who leaves, who stays. I’m sorry, but the thought of a junior Mitchell doesn’t get me excited. That may rub some wrong, but I don’t get how an athletic kid that is recruited by a major blue blood can look so awful on offense. And that’s after two seasons.
You guys realize you are mad at a bunch of teenagers and 20 year olds for not performing to your expectations?
Any of you remember how Duke basketball was between 1970 and 1985? I do.
You also realize that Coach K wasn't the same coach his first few years, and may have lost a little his last few?
Also, in the age of NIL, free transfers and COVID years, as well as AAU ball that may not teach fundamentals sufficiently, 5 star freshmen can't be expected to excel right away, maybe for a year or two. Paolo, Zion and RJ are exceptions to the rule but they are rare.
All in all, I'm devastated we didn't make the Final Four but I understand why we didn't.
Any of you remember how Duke basketball was between 1970 and 1985? I do.
You also realize that Coach K wasn't the same coach his first few years, and may have lost a little his last few?
Also, in the age of NIL, free transfers and COVID years, as well as AAU ball that may not teach fundamentals sufficiently, 5 star freshmen can't be expected to excel right away, maybe for a year or two. Paolo, Zion and RJ are exceptions to the rule but they are rare.
All in all, I'm devastated we didn't make the Final Four but I understand why we didn't.
McCain won’t go in the lottery but first round yes . He’s not going before Flip. Flip doesn’t have to be a starter in the league he will help a lot of teams with his size coming off the bench and offensive game .
Are you saying if he returns ? Or in the league ? If he returns yes if your talking about the league no
Some may be angry at players who underperformed based on our own expectations. I am not. Was I frustrated at times as a fan? Absolutely.
Duke would have cut the nets down in 78 if Jack Givens didn’t have a career night, but I agree with the post overall
BR Hoops had McCain at #11 last week. Don't know about the other mock drafts but if he's in the top20 he should go. Flip, Proctor and Mitchell came back and 2, being Proctor and Mitchell lost a bunch of spots in their draft stock.
But actually, Bama does have one and beat UNC because of it. Grant Nelson had 24/12 & 5 blocks vs UNC. And he and Pringle (6’10 with hops) were factors in defeating Clemson. So add that to your salient point.
Flip was not as efficient this year as last when we actually had a center and he could play the 4. He’s a 4. But he’s really limited because he has short arms and at 7’0 is not speedy to play a 4.
Honestly I don’t understand why he gets ranked in the top 15 of these NBA draft sites. But he and McCain are likely going to be drafted.
Foster transferring? Great. That would be a bummer. Duke needs him at PG.
Duke really needs to hit the portal big time. At least 1 starter and 2-3 quality contributors. Much better than, say, Young. Who fought hard but has no really basketball skill.
Mitchell seems completely lost most of the time. He has no inside presence with little strength. And has no real quality shot or touch.
Proctor has a long, long way to go. He was just soft in the tourney. Could not bang down a 3 to save his life in that game. He has to add about 10-12 lbs of muscle to his frame to be able to drive with more authority and has to develop his shot.
Stewart is a good fit. But will he transfer out of frustration with inconsistent playing time. I don’t know what Scheyer was doing.
I am not a Jon hater. He’s had two successful seasons. And his HS recruiting is phenomenal. However, he has failed to recruit older talent (not just bodies) in the portal. And he has picked up coach K’s greatest flaw: a failure to develop and use his bench players.
And in the age of the portal and NIL, you can’t live in 2015 or win with that K short bench philosophy. players need hope that as they compete and develop he will use them. But he has yet to demonstrate any reason for any young players that he will do so.
If Duke is to remain relevant beyond getting high school recruits, Jon has a ton of work to do and a lot of changes to make.
Mitchell offers no value. We should let him transfer. He needs about 20 lbs of added muscle and even then he has no offensive talent and isn’t a smart player. Proctor just showed no development. He had to improve to get PT. I’d be fine with him transferring. Neither showed this past off season that they were working hard enough physically or mentally to up their game.
The two players Scheyer needs to focus on returning are Foster and Stewart. We have a big lineup returning and some scorers coming in.
Jon needs to focus on 3 things:
1) keep the incoming freshmen in the fold. There is some talent and scoring there.
2) recruit & retain Foster and Stewart as Musts. Show them ways they will be used and how you will help significantly improve their game the next 6 months.
3) Recruit at least 2-3 jr / sr players in the portal and promise them playing time if they compete. We need at least one vet starter. And 1-2 who can get PT off the bench.
If he loses either Foster or Stewart (or, heaven forbid, both) then those numbers in the portal need to increase. 2 starters at least and 1-2 more off the bench.
The two players Scheyer needs to focus on returning are Foster and Stewart. We have a big lineup returning and some scorers coming in.
Jon needs to focus on 3 things:
1) keep the incoming freshmen in the fold. There is some talent and scoring there.
2) recruit & retain Foster and Stewart as Musts. Show them ways they will be used and how you will help significantly improve their game the next 6 months.
3) Recruit at least 2-3 jr / sr players in the portal and promise them playing time if they compete. We need at least one vet starter. And 1-2 who can get PT off the bench.
If he loses either Foster or Stewart (or, heaven forbid, both) then those numbers in the portal need to increase. 2 starters at least and 1-2 more off the bench.
Not playing Stewart/Power and even Schutt ( to see if they can contribute) more in the early season to assess what they could give us is something we see every year...take some lumps early and then decide on what a team is going to be. Up tempo? Half court? Who is the go to player? Whats the defensive sets..not always man to man, maybe press a little? It seemed like JS had his mind made up early and didnt change nor experiment with the line up that much...as a bench player I think that would be very demotivating. Stewart looked to have a break out game in the first NcSt encounter...then disappeared back to the bench...that one is a head scratcher...and could motivate him to depart
I don’t think those offer anything. As I’ve expressed above. Foster and Stewart do. Michael offers nothing on offense and even his defense is terrible against older guys like NCSU front line because he has no physicality. He can’t play a 3 and he can’t rebound and play the 4. Proctor is weak as well. Plus neither of those showed any significant development from year 1 to 2. And wouldn’t expect it
Roach had flashes but he was better two years ago when we went to the FF. He still does not have the body, at 180, to compete against the best.
We had a historically favorable draw and didn't take advantage.
I'd feel much better about the season had Houston not lost their best player
We beat a 1 seed when their best player got injured during the game and completely disrupted their flow.
Then we had an elite 8 game against a conference opponent who beat us by 10+ and we had zero answers.
Greatful for the effort, but we were a flawed team
I'd feel much better about the season had Houston not lost their best player
We beat a 1 seed when their best player got injured during the game and completely disrupted their flow.
Then we had an elite 8 game against a conference opponent who beat us by 10+ and we had zero answers.
Greatful for the effort, but we were a flawed team
Highly disagree that Mitchell adds no value.
Yeah I definitely want any Duke player that wants to come back. I’m hoping all of them decide to return but obviously I believe Flip and McCain are going into the draft. But if Proctor and Mitchell return that would be great. Got to remember they were just Sophomores and have plenty of improvement left to go. Both didn’t have as great of seasons that we all were hoping for but still 10.5/3/3 for Proctor and 11.6/6/1 for Mitchell. Those are good numbers. Don’t see how any Duke fan wouldn’t want those Juniors back next season.
I believe he added value but not the value for a Duke starter. He couldn't make much outside of a few feet away from the basket. He would have been a hell of a player coming off the bench. While it was nice to have Flip Mitchell and Proctor back for their sophomore years, I think it messed up the coaching staffs plan when they recruited the current freshman.
Agree but you give up a lot when so many others have players like him who can shoot. He cannot shoot, and that makes him a big liability. I think his camp way over estimates his abilities.
There was a once Vaunted toughness that has gone from this program and are we forever gonna buy an annual excuse of how we’re just younger than everyone else? 11th seed State is “older”, oh well. Guess Duke found old age in Raleigh for 40 minutes on March 4th. 🙄 but then aged in reverse after that. What’s their secret as I’d like to shave off a few years before summer gets here!?
27-9 and 27-9. Same record, only difference is instead of winning the ACC Tournament, Duke goose egged that and won three in the NCAA Tournament. An ACC Championship and an elite 8 for just a second year Head Coach is still very good. We have to be fair and acknowledge that but there are issues that need to be worked on. In the end this team lived up to its personality from the season. Good, but never good enough. The expectations for March were reset only because the team underachieved relative to its pre-season expectation. So while an elite 8 is nice, this was the nation’s pre-season #2 team.
But a new year is around the corner. Kentucky and Duke have another National recruiting Championship under their belts. I’m sure that’s fine with Danny Hurley.
This is it exactly! If he’s a starter you give up something right away as he cannot shoot!
I am bullish on Mitchell
11 and 6 as a soph and he missed the spring and summer. I think there is upside there. We will sorely need juniors next year. Is he willing to be a 6th man as a junior idk.
11 and 6 as a soph and he missed the spring and summer. I think there is upside there. We will sorely need juniors next year. Is he willing to be a 6th man as a junior idk.
Agree Christophero. I would definitely take him back as a junior but he somehow needs to improve his offense. But with the stuff his dad said earlier in the season, I think he's gone.
On another note, is it just me or does it seem like Flip Rarely shot a mid range jumper. Seems like it's a three or a drive to the basket.
The thing about Mitchell is countless times he covered for others on defense when they were beaten to the basket. Even with a true center there are few players who can do that. I still hope he will fix his shot and learn to go up stronger with the ball and then he'll be the whole package. I mean Lance Thomas was not allowed to take a 10 footer when he was a sophomore and he ended up making millions in the NBA.
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