Old Duke Games and Teams
- Thread starter dukehokie
- Start date
You younguns before you go there better look at our 66 team lost in FF by four points with Bobby Verga sick.That team five starters all played professionally with four of them making at least one all star game.Duke basketball did not start in 1980
Only referring to the K era. I will take your word on some of those teams from that era.
Topps, I think most Duke fans know that, but you can't tell me that the '66 team was better than '99 or '04. Or '86 for that matter. Not even comparatively to the rest of college basketball at their time would that be the case.
Again I will argue that they were as dominant to that era or even more so than the teams you mentioned.This is the only team in our history where all five played professionally and made an all star teams
Different eras of basketball, apples to oranges...Muscleman Mike Lewis would have dominated Bilas and fouled him out though...So comparing that team to '86 IS VALID to debate.
OFC
I am not doubting what you're saying at all. Hell we have some posters on here that were too young to even remember the Laettner led teams. It's not fair to say one era is superior to another era.
It may not be as unfair as it sounds and believe me, I'm all for preserving the history of the program. I didn't experience some things live, but believe me, I've done my research. We can talk all about Ed Koffenberger's strange recruitment over a beer next CTC.
You can absolutely look at how a team competed against their own competition and draw a conclusion.
But no team in Duke history dominated their league the way the '99 team did and I argued that the '04 team was even better. Lewis, Vacendak, Marin and Verga all deserve to be lauded and Bubas was an exceptional coach, but from the head coach down to all of the players, most of Duke's best teams, comparatively, come from the Krzyzewski era.
Is there anyway you could post some games when Bubas, Waters and Foster were the head coaches? I would LOVE to watch some Pre-Coach K Duke games. I have looked on YouTube and can't find a whole lot.
No doubt about the K era being dominant, but remember in the short decade Bubas run, we played in about 3 final fours, at least two NIT's (back when it meant something!) and were ranked #1 several times.
Also if you play out the '66 v. '86 matchup we had a forward Jack Marin who could play the 3 or 4, and as much as I love Alarie- I think Jack was the better overall player. Amaker vs '66 pt guard Steve Vacendak (toss-up w/ slight edge to Steve's experience, and ACC MVP TOURNEY award winner too) Bob Verga was a better outside shooter than Dawkins, but Johnny was a SCORER and Bob would have had REAL TROUBLE stopping DAWK off the dribble. Give Dave Henderson edge over Bob Reidy at other Forwards match-up. Ferry off bench w/'86 team best reserve on either team....
Coaching:Even (Remember Bubas had Chuck Daly and Hubie Brown as assts.)
OFC
Last edited:
Good points hart. I'd say Vacendak was a definite better player than Amaker, but I'm not certain with Alarie not being better than Marin. Alarie was so good. Much like the debate with '04 and '99, Johnny Dawkins is the overall x-factor here. No slight whatsoever to Verga because he was a great, great player but Johnny is one of the top 2-3 players in Duke history. He's worth that much to any team he's on.
Trust me I wish I could find something. Outside of some random highlights as a part of documentaries, I haven't found any full games.
Enjoy the friendly debate my good man. Dont get me wrong I loved Alarie, and like Marin another great student- athlete. Only thing I would say is Jack was clearly the superior pro player, and probably did more things overall than Mark for his team.
You are very ON-POINT about Johnny D, and the thing about it- he elevated everyone's game around him. I think its a great thing we have teams from different eras we can talk about and truly shows Blue Devil Pride!!!!
OFC
All these games and teams are great and hard to pick my favorite so I'm going to the game and player that solidified my being the passionate , loyal Duke fan and my total disdain for anything.
The player Art Heyman, The face of unc and to me the definition of unc and what it stands for larry brown. OFC
The player Art Heyman, The face of unc and to me the definition of unc and what it stands for larry brown. OFC
Dawkins was definitely a better player than Bob but there is a not a great chasm between them.Verga would get his points on him.Another point on Marin Bucky Waters said that he was the best all round player we ever had until Grant got here.Again as Hart said this is not knocking any Duke team or player but a discussion of great Duke players
Last edited:
Interesting Topps!!! Never knew this, but of course Buck would know! I can see the parallels: Jack and Grant were two of the smoothest players Duke was fortunate to ever have...
OFC
Next in the Old Game/Question series, Duke vs. Purdue in the Regional Final 1994. One of Grant's finest defensive performances. He, along with some help defense, held Glenn "Big Dog" Robinson to 13 points on 6-22 shooting. Robinson put up point totals of 44, 33 and 31prior to this game. He was a world beater until he was beaten but Grant and his posse. So I ask you, was NBA career notwithstanding, was Grant the greatest player in Duke history? This game illustrates his greatness. Whether he was scoring or not, his teams were going to have a chance to win. His stats aren't as impressive as others, but his all around game, coupled with athleticism and his cerebral nature make me feel he is #1. What other Duke players put a team on their back the entire season and made it within a fingertip of winning an NCAA title?
What Grant did that season with the talent with him was definitely great, but sorry Dukehokie, Laettner's career puts him ahead. Grant was special, no doubt, but Laettner went to 4 straight and had arguably the most clutch performances in my time as a Duke fan, and did it when the lights were the brightest
I hear you. I do love what Christian did in his career, especially with the number of championships and Final Fours he made, but it's a team sport and sometimes I think when talking individual accolades, it's hard for me personally to say that championships are a big part of the equation. A tie breaker maybe, but not THE factor. Besides, Grant only went to one less Final Four and played in the same amount of championships. And back to my original point, he did so on a team far less talented than any of Laettner's. He carried a team more than maybe anyone at Duke has.
It's still hard to argue against you on this one though. Final Fours aside, Christian's career was absolutely dominant and stellar.
Just the mention of this loss sends my mind racing. My boss took me home in a car service the day after b/c he honestly thought I may jump off the 59th Street Bridge. Not kidding. I was in a fog for months.
Grant is arguably our best pro, particularly before injuries hindered him. That can be traced to his overall athletic potential, and that makes it tempting to think about what might have been had his peak occurred in those 4 years, but I just can't pick him over Laettner, and I might not even have him higher than 3rd for that era (well, okay, he'd be exactly 3rd, behind Laet and Bobby).
See I'd personally hold him above Bobby. No slight to Bobby, but Grant had skills to affect the game beyond what Bobby had. Because of that, I would have Grant above Bobby at least.
I would agree with this hokie. Take that '94 team. It basically hopped aboard the Grant Train for a March Madness ride that led them to within an eyelash of Grant's 3rd natty in 4 years.....
OFC
Personally I have to rank Bobby over Grant because of the positional value.Imo PG is the most important position on the team
It's absolutely no slight to either of them, and it's perfectly reasonable to rank Grant higher. For the reason I put in bold, I don't, though: for me, "having those skills" is another way of saying "potential." I think Bobby actually did more.
I agree there. Actually, stats-wise, Grant may have the least impressive resume of any of the guys in the rafters, but any of us who saw him play knows that isn't necessarily the whole story with him.
Ask Kansas (and ol Roy) about the IMPACT of his INCREDIBLE LEAP AND STRETCH to turn the alley-oop into a NEAR IMPOSSIBLE DUNK in '91! OFC
Grant's perfect 80 ft strike to Laettner can NEVER be underestimated....'92 Ky- yeah they may hate Laettner in Ky, but dont you know that MONEY PASS gets under their skin????
OFC
OFC
I never post, but I couldn't resist this thread. My favorite old game probably isn't too memorable to most, but it's one I'll never forget. Wake Forest at Duke on 1/17/2010. I got tickets last minute, @dukehokie scrambled down and we made the game. It was as intense and physical a game as I've ever watched, even though the score might not indicate that. The plumlee brothers were in full effect, dunking on everyone. Miles had 19 and 14. Wake went on a run and went up, but then Singler hit a corner three. When the shot was in the air, I swear Cameron was nearly silent for a second and you could feel the boom coming. The three went down and the lid blew off of the stadium - that's as loud as I've ever heard it. Great moment, and made even better that I shared it with my long time friend @dukehokie.
That was also shortly after Al-Farouq Aminu got in trouble for shooting at people with a BB gun. When he took his first free throws, the crazies started chanting: "STOP! DON'T SHOOT!"
Here's a recap
That was also shortly after Al-Farouq Aminu got in trouble for shooting at people with a BB gun. When he took his first free throws, the crazies started chanting: "STOP! DON'T SHOOT!"
Here's a recap
Although there was far less insightful breakdown especially on individual games/players 15+ years ago; I had the opportunity to watch probably the most Duke Basketball of my fandom from 1998 to 2006
Great discussions in this thread. My general sentiment (points not yet voiced it seems)
-> 2004 Duke played a tremendous game (in the underdog role) but the 1999 Duke team played a subpar game in the favorite role. Yet both teams lost on final possessions. If those two games are replayed 9 more times - I don't think the 2004 team performs as well. If I remember correctly people in 2004 were complaining about some of the 1st Half foul calls resulting in Uconn putting their size on the bench. But I also agree the 2004 Huskies team is superior than their 1999 squad
->1998 vs 2003
The '98 squad ranks in the Top 10 for Duke teams falling short. 99 loses McLeod and added Maggette
The 2003 squad was average by relative standards. The 2004 team lost Dahntay Jones but added Deng
I personally put stock into how teams perform before/after. The following seasons were both retooling so it's a wash in that regard
-> 99 was perfectly structured. Each player knew their role and flourished in it. It was a team 2 years in the making. 2004 was very versatile but also a bit out of position. Deng splashed on the scene and then just like that was gone.
I ultimately prefer Brand-Battier-Burgess over Williams-Deng-Randolph and that is mostly because Deng is out of position. Maggette and James off the bench to further push Deng is also key to me. But Duhon & Ewing might have frustrated Avery. I think this is where their experience in battling together would have been the difference maker in converting possessions on the offensive end.
IMO - 1999
Great discussions in this thread. My general sentiment (points not yet voiced it seems)
-> 2004 Duke played a tremendous game (in the underdog role) but the 1999 Duke team played a subpar game in the favorite role. Yet both teams lost on final possessions. If those two games are replayed 9 more times - I don't think the 2004 team performs as well. If I remember correctly people in 2004 were complaining about some of the 1st Half foul calls resulting in Uconn putting their size on the bench. But I also agree the 2004 Huskies team is superior than their 1999 squad
->1998 vs 2003
The '98 squad ranks in the Top 10 for Duke teams falling short. 99 loses McLeod and added Maggette
The 2003 squad was average by relative standards. The 2004 team lost Dahntay Jones but added Deng
I personally put stock into how teams perform before/after. The following seasons were both retooling so it's a wash in that regard
-> 99 was perfectly structured. Each player knew their role and flourished in it. It was a team 2 years in the making. 2004 was very versatile but also a bit out of position. Deng splashed on the scene and then just like that was gone.
I ultimately prefer Brand-Battier-Burgess over Williams-Deng-Randolph and that is mostly because Deng is out of position. Maggette and James off the bench to further push Deng is also key to me. But Duhon & Ewing might have frustrated Avery. I think this is where their experience in battling together would have been the difference maker in converting possessions on the offensive end.
IMO - 1999
Last edited:
Something we can definitely agree on. @madisonjuice and I went to that game and had a blast. Singler was such a warrior that night. It was close early, but the team got angry and finished Wake off. In typical Demon Deacon fashion, early on they did their typical "let's make this a wrestling match" schtick, with Ish Smith even employing his best Chris Paul Napoleon bully tactics. It truly was a hard fought game, and the Plumlees are the ones who saved us. It's funny, after that game, the thought was that the Plumlees, not Lance and Zoubs, would be the tandem to lead us in the paint to the championship. While they were an integral part, that ultimately isn't what did it.
What a great championship team that was. They seriously just refused to lose and the Wake game @madisonjuice brought up is a perfect example.
Funny story, a kid that was sitting beside us kept asking if I was Aries Spears. I kept telling him no, but he finally just said "it's ok I won't tell anybody. Gotta keep a low profile." That was the day I decided to give up McDonald's. Haha.
Ok "new" game, new topic. Here is a fun find. Duke vs. Indiana 1992 National Semifinal. This was a dream matchup for the bracket committee. Pitting Duke and Coach K against his mentor Bobby Knight and the Hoosiers of Indiana. Some say this even caused a rift between Coach Knight and K, though K has refuted this in public on many occasions. Indiana brought Calbert Cheaney, while Duke came with their all-time triumvirate of Laettner, Hurley and Grant Hill.
Now here's the question. You see it throughout NBA history and you see at every other level of basketball. If you can surround a solid corp around three mega stars, you typically have a better than average chance of winning a championship. So the question, who is Duke's best "Big 3" (NCAA championship not required)?
Just to jog the memory, here are a few examples:
Laettner, Hurley, Hill
Marin, Lewis, Verga
Winslow, Okafor, Jones
Scheyer, Smith, Singler
Brand, Avery, Langdon
Battier, Williams, Boozer (could even say Dunleavy)
Gminski, Banks, Spanarkel
Dawkins, Amaker, Alarie
Duke has had some heavy hitting trios (duos as well: Williams/Redick; Mullins/Heyman). I think Hill/Laettner/Hurley have to be considered the best, but you could legitimately make a case for a few of the other groups listed. It just goes to show how blessed we are as fans.
