Old Duke Games and Teams

[dukehokie]

The Bagley recruitment is going to take precedent the next couple of days, but I wanted to break up the "will Alex O'Connell play" monotony a little bit. Found some old Duke games on YouTube and wanted to post the games for some nostalgia, but also wanted to talk about some topics associated with those games. I'll post games every couple of days so the conversation doesn't get stale. If you come across some games that you want to post, please feel free to add. This isn't my show haha.

The first is Duke vs Wake 2004. I noticed something interesting about that team. Statistically, number of pros, and number of retired jerseys, they equaled or bettered the '99 team that is largely considered one of the best, if not the best college basketball team to not win a title (UNLV is also thrown in even though they won one with the same squad).

So I say to you if you decide to watch a little of the game, or you just go off of memory, I propose that that '04 Duke team was actually better than the '99 team. They had more experience, better college players (pro success notwithstanding) and they played tougher teams. Not to mention the '04 UConn team was better than '99 and '04 Duke had them on the ropes until the refs and Vegas got involved. So let's talk and debate a bit and see where this goes. Enjoy the games.

 

[timo0402]

The Bagley recruitment is going to take precedent the next couple of days, but I wanted to break up the "will Alex O'Connell play" monotony a little bit. Found some old Duke games on YouTube and wanted to post the games for some nostalgia, but also wanted to talk about some topics associated with those games. I'll post games every couple of days so the conversation doesn't get stale. If you come across some games that you want to post, please feel free to add. This isn't my show haha.

The first is Duke vs Wake 2004. I noticed something interesting about that team. Statistically, number of pros, and number of retired jerseys, they equaled or bettered the '99 team that is largely considered one of the best, if not the best college basketball team to not win a title (UNLV is also thrown in even though they won one with the same squad).

So I say to you if you decide to watch a little of the game, or you just go off of memory, I propose that that '04 Duke team was actually better than the '99 team. They had more experience, better college players (pro success notwithstanding) and they played tougher teams. Not to mention the '04 UConn team was better than '99 and '04 Duke had them on the ropes until the refs and Vegas got involved. So let's talk and debate a bit and see where this goes. Enjoy the games.

View embedded media

Great topic, especially during the summer.

On your question on '99 vs '04, both among my favorite teams ever....I think you're completely off base thinking that 2004 could be better than '99. While yes they had more retired jerseys, the only reason was because 1. Brand hasn't graduated yet and when/if he does he will be there, Shane is already there, and you could easily argue that Chris should be up there. That doesn't even include what guys who left early could have done. I will go apples to apples though. While Deng had better numbers freshmen year than Corey, corey was definitely the better talent. I fully understand that Deng was awesome and the number two overall prospect in his class behind Lebron, but if you ask me point blank do I get a second year of Deng or maggettee I take corey all day. Then let's talk about Avery vs duhon. While clearly duhon had the better career, Avery was to me the better talent, and I'm not sure that is close either. People to this day still talk about Avery, they sadly don't talk as much about chris- we knew what chris was (and great for Duke) William was one of those really special players, and we all wish he stayed. Pound for pound, and as much as I loved 2004 probably a top 4 team for me ever, in a seven game series I don't think 2004 makes it to game 6.

 

[dukehokie]

Great topic, especially during the summer.

On your question on '99 vs '04, both among my favorite teams ever....I think you're completely off base thinking that 2004 could be better than '99. While yes they had more retired jerseys, the only reason was because 1. Brand hasn't graduated yet and when/if he does he will be there, Shane is already there, and you could easily argue that Chris should be up there. That doesn't even include what guys who left early could have done. I will go apples to apples though. While Deng had better numbers freshmen year than Corey, corey was definitely the better talent. I fully understand that Deng was awesome and the number two overall prospect in his class behind Lebron, but if you ask me point blank do I get a second year of Deng or maggettee I take corey all day. Then let's talk about Avery vs duhon. While clearly duhon had the better career, Avery was to me the better talent, and I'm not sure that is close either. People to this day still talk about Avery, they sadly don't talk as much about chris- we knew what chris was (and great for Duke) William was one of those really special players, and we all wish he stayed. Pound for pound, and as much as I loved 2004 probably a top 4 team for me ever, in a seven game series I don't think 2004 makes it to game 6.

What?!!! Not even 6? I'll give you Avery talent over Duhon, but Duhon had a role and fit it better than any Duke had fit their role in long time. A lesser point guard doesn't get those weapons the ball. That might have been one of the issues with '99. In crunch time, Avery couldn't deliver the ball to the right places.

Maggette over Deng? Please. Whatever IPA you're drinking while typing this, I want a sip too. And I don't even like IPA. Deng was 6'8, versatile and probably one of the best freshmen K had to that point besides Grant Hill. I'd say he was maybe the second or third best freshman K ever had (Dawkins, Hill and Okafor are all in the conversation, Jabari and Tyus wouldn't be far behind). JJ vs Trajan? JJ. A soph Battier trumps Shav but not Deng. Shelden vs Brand no contest to Brand, but it's not like Shel was Greg Newton at the time. Watch the Wake game I posted. 6 blocks by halftime against a damn good post player in his own right in Eric Williams. Daniel Ewing over Maggette and Carrawell over the '04 bench. Either way '04 has got to be the better team. Plus '04 K was better than '99 K as he was learning to adapt to defections. Sorry my man, I gotta say '04.

 

[timo0402]

What?!!! Not even 6? I'll give you Avery talent over Duhon, but Duhon had a role and fit it better than any Duke had fit their role in long time. A lesser point guard doesn't get those weapons the ball. That might have been one of the issues with '99. In crunch time, Avery couldn't deliver the ball to the right places.

Maggette over Deng? Please. Whatever IPA you're drinking while typing this, I want a sip too. And I don't even like IPA. Deng was 6'8, versatile and probably one of the best freshmen K had to that point besides Grant Hill. I'd say he was maybe the second or third best freshman K ever had (Dawkins, Hill and Okafor are all in the conversation, Jabari and Tyus wouldn't be far behind). JJ vs Trajan? JJ. A soph Battier trumps Shav but not Deng. Shelden vs Brand no contest to Brand, but it's not like Shel was Greg Newton at the time. Watch the Wake game I posted. 6 blocks by halftime against a damn good post player in his own right in Eric Williams. Daniel Ewing over Maggette and Carrawell over the '04 bench. Either way '04 has got to be the better team. Plus '04 K was better than '99 K as he was learning to adapt to defections. Sorry my man, I gotta say '04.

I pegged you for better than this to be honest, and quite ironic that you're telling me about drinking. By the looks of your response you've had a few.

Let's start with a soft spot for me... my two favorite players ever- JJ and Trajan.

If you're saying a soph JJ is better than an all American senior Trajan, than you're crazy. Obviously all you remember is the last play of his career. Not to mention, Trajan as a leader was incredible having to share the spotlight with a younger group of stars.

Ewing over Corey? Uhhhh what? I loved Ewing and was one of the most underrated guys ever but really? You're better than this. Brand as a soph was the POY, while he's Sheldon was no slouch at the same age he could t deal with brand.

Again it's a six game at absolute max series and probably a seeep.

 

[dukehokie]

Maggette dunked better than Daniel, that's about it.

JJ and Trajan fit the same role and JJ shot 40% from 3 while Trajan shot 44%. Advantage there goes to Trajan, but JJ had better numbers from the field and from the free throw line. Advantage JJ.

Who was behind Brand? Thats where '04 was truly superior. Duke '04 had a decent 8 man rotation, set school records on defense, namely blocked shots, Fg% defense, team steals, and rebounding. That's one of the things which made that team so great. You have to see that. I'm not sure that can be argued.

By the way, I'm guessing you misspelled sweep because there's no possible way you believe that.

 

[DukeRulesBasketball]

The Bagley recruitment is going to take precedent the next couple of days, but I wanted to break up the "will Alex O'Connell play" monotony a little bit. Found some old Duke games on YouTube and wanted to post the games for some nostalgia, but also wanted to talk about some topics associated with those games. I'll post games every couple of days so the conversation doesn't get stale. If you come across some games that you want to post, please feel free to add. This isn't my show haha.

The first is Duke vs Wake 2004. I noticed something interesting about that team. Statistically, number of pros, and number of retired jerseys, they equaled or bettered the '99 team that is largely considered one of the best, if not the best college basketball team to not win a title (UNLV is also thrown in even though they won one with the same squad).

So I say to you if you decide to watch a little of the game, or you just go off of memory, I propose that that '04 Duke team was actually better than the '99 team. They had more experience, better college players (pro success notwithstanding) and they played tougher teams. Not to mention the '04 UConn team was better than '99 and '04 Duke had them on the ropes until the refs and Vegas got involved. So let's talk and debate a bit and see where this goes. Enjoy the games.

View embedded media

O man. The 04 game against UCONN still stings to this day. If Duke had just held onto that lead late in the game, I have a feeling they would have beaten GT in the National Championship. Thanks for posting old Duke games. I in fact the other day was watching the 1999 game against Michigan State in the Four. I didn't watch the 1999 national championship game though for good reason( another painful loss at the hands of UCONN). Also the 98 game against uk I won't watch either. I cried at that game( I was a little kid then). If Duke had just held onto that lead, I feel like Duke would have beaten Stanford and then Utah for the national title.

 

[Mac9192]

You two better learn to get along, you're both mods. Back to the comparison on both teams. You guys brought up two teams that lost games that still bother any Duke fan. Both teams had the game at hand, but couldn't finish. Yeah the 04 team was really, really good and I think the refs helped Calhoun and crew out. The 99 team choked. How many shots did Brand take in last 7 minutes? Total meltdown by the team. Best player in college, and we didn't find #42. That team steamrolled every one, and showed in title game the only team that could beat Duke was Duke. The rest of the talent is real close, but edge to me goes to 99, because of Brand. He was just a beast.

 

[jamsession3]

Duke '99 should be a National Championship...period! Calhoun outcoached K.
That game still hurts. Duke had six NBA players on that team, that at any given time could've taken over!

 

[pisgah101]

Shoulda won it both times

 

[pisgah101]

Watched a little bit before work. JJ didn't touch the ball for three minutes lol

 

[dukephysics]

And I don't even like IPA.

And with that statement, all credibility was lost.

 

[dukehokie]

You two better learn to get along, you're both mods. Back to the comparison on both teams. You guys brought up two teams that lost games that still bother any Duke fan. Both teams had the game at hand, but couldn't finish. Yeah the 04 team was really, really good and I think the refs helped Calhoun and crew out. The 99 team choked. How many shots did Brand take in last 7 minutes? Total meltdown by the team. Best player in college, and we didn't find #42. That team steamrolled every one, and showed in title game the only team that could beat Duke was Duke. The rest of the talent is real close, but edge to me goes to 99, because of Brand. He was just a beast.

Tell that to @timo0402. Hah.

I hear you with Brand. I just think the balance and defense with '04 would have won out. As a college team, not an NBA conglomerate, I just think '04 was better.

 

[Mac9192]

Tell that to @timo0402. Hah.

I hear you with Brand. I just think the balance and defense with '04 would have won out. As a college team, not an NBA conglomerate, I just think '04 was better.

Definitely the best two teams to never win it all, with 86 right there as well.

 

[dukehokie]

Watched a little bit before work. JJ didn't touch the ball for three minutes lol

That was the beauty of that '04 team. They could survive a bad night or slow start from JJ unlike his teams junior and senior year.

He went to work after that though. There are some really good "Duke" sequences in the second half. Defense leading to offense and all that. I miss those plays.

 

[jamsession3]

Tell that to @timo0402. Hah.

I hear you with Brand. I just think the balance and defense with '04 would have won out. As a college team, not an NBA conglomerate, I just think '04 was better.

No way. Avery would have fouled Duhon out, Williams was too young, Shane and Deng were evenly matched, there was no answer for Corey, Langdon was more experience then JJ, Chris had height over Dan, but 2004 had a deeper bench...

 

[dukehokie]

No way. Avery would have fouled Duhon out, Williams was too young, Shane and Deng were evenly matched, there was no answer for Corey, Langdon was more experience then JJ, Chris had height over Dan, but 2004 had a deeper bench...

Williams was young, but was a presence. He probably would have fouled out, but Shav was more than decent backup. And Shane is my favorite Duke player, but a sophomore Shane < Deng, he was that good. Watch that game. It's a good reminder. JJ had less experience, but he and Trajan had the same role with basically the same results. Duhon would have given Avery fits, I'm sorry. He made Chris Paul cry at the end of this game.

 

[SoCal_Dukie3]

The 99 team choked but the 04 team was hosed. That's one of the rare times I think the refs actually swayed a game for one team. Yes, Emeka had 2 fouls early, but Duke had 3 bigs foul out on very questionable calls!!

 

[HuffyJB]

Interesting conversation. I am in the camp that would take '99 over '04 (though it is close). The main reason, as someone else said, is the presence of Elton Brand.

As far as the individual players discussion, I would definitely take Deng over Maggette. CM was a better athlete and could sky, but there is no other aspect of the game that Deng wasn't better at. Maggette gets you more highlights, Deng makes more winning plays.

 

[dukehokie]

If you haven't watched the game above do so or at the very least fast forward to the second half. That '04 team just created so many winning stretches with their play. I loved watching them work.

 

[jwill133]

I'll take a stab at this 99 vs 04 discussion. Safe to say these are our 2 best teams that fell short. Trying to make this comparison as COLLEGE PLAYERS only.

---Avery vs. Duhon - Maybe the toughest of all to compare. We all know Duhon was a great leader and his intangibles were off the charts. However, I was shocked to look it up and see Duhon only averaged 10 and 6 assists. Avery averaged 15 and 5, while shooting a better % from 2 and 3. Advantage -99 team.
---Carrawell vs. Ewing - I think Carrawell had the better Duke career, however looking at his 99 season, he was our lowest % shooter and shot the lowest of his career. Ewing had the better season during 04. Advantage - 04 team.
---Langdon vs. Redick- Langdon averaged more and shot a better %. Redick has talked numerous times on his podcast about how he wasn't "fully invested in basketball" his sophomore year. Advantage -99 team.
---Battier vs. Deng - Just looking at the 99 versus 04 season. Deng was the much better player. Advantage 04.
---Brand vs. Shelden - Come on man. Advantage 99.

---Maggette vs. Dockery- Advantage 99..by a wide margin.
---Chris Burgess vs. Shav - Advantage 04..by a wide margin.
---Nate James vs. HORVATH - Advantage 99

I believe the 99 team would have 5 players better while the 04 team would have 3 players better. Not to mention, 99 would have the TWO best players on the floor, in Elton and Trajan. I'd take the 99 team in six.

2004 team did "lose" to the better UCONN team tho, IMO.

 

[dukehokie]

I'll take a stab at this 99 vs 04 discussion. Safe to say these are our 2 best teams that fell short. Trying to make this comparison as COLLEGE PLAYERS only.

---Avery vs. Duhon - Maybe the toughest of all to compare. We all know Duhon was a great leader and his intangibles were off the charts. However, Duhon seemed to take a small step back his SR year, 10 and 6 assists a night. Avery averaged 15 and 5, while shooting a better % from 2 and 3. Advantage -99 team.
---Carrawell vs. Ewing - I think Carrawell had the better Duke career, however looking at his 99 season, he was our lowest % shooter and shot the lowest of his career. Ewing had the better season during 04. Advantage - 04 team.
---Langdon vs. Redick- Langdon averaged more and shot a better %. Redick has talked numerous times on his podcast about how he wasn't "fully invested in basketball" his sophomore year. Advantage -99 team.
---Battier vs. Deng - Just looking at the 99 versus 04 season. Deng was the much better player. Advantage 04.
---Brand vs. Shelden - Advantage 99.

---Maggette vs. Dockery- Advantage 99
---Chris Burgess vs. Shav - Advantage 04
---Nate James vs. HORVATH - Advantage 99

I believe the 99 team would have 5 players better while the 04 team would have 3 players better. Not to mention, 99 would have the TWO best players on the floor, in Elton and Trajan. I'd take the 99 team in six.

2004 team did "lose" to the better UCONN team tho, IMO.

Good argument and good points. I'd argue that Duhon took a step forward from his junior season. He was dealing with some off court demons his junior year and came back focused and retooled his senior year. I'd say his senior season was his best stats or not. Avery was certainly more talented. but that team lacked a leader and it showed when it counted. I'd give '04 the advantage based on that.

And to me, Redick and Langdon are a stalemate. They carried the same role and performed so closely that game by game, it wouldn't matter, you could insert either for either team and the results would probably be the same.

This is a fun argument to have, and maybe @timo0402 has calmed down and can rejoin. Haha.

I'll post another game soon as I feel this one is wrapping up with an advantage to '99.

 

[jwill133]

Good argument and good points. I'd argue that Duhon took a step forward from his junior season. He was dealing with some off court demons his junior year and came back focused and retooled his senior year. I'd say his senior season was his best stats or not. Avery was certainly more talented. but that team lacked a leader and it showed when it counted. I'd give '04 the advantage based on that.

And to me, Redick and Langdon are a stalemate. They carried the same role and performed so closely that game by game, it wouldn't matter, you could insert either for either team and the results would probably be the same.

This is a fun argument to have, and maybe @timo0402 has calmed down and can rejoin. Haha.

I'll post another game soon as I feel this one is wrapping up with an advantage to '99.

Solid points. I do believe the Avery vs. Duhon comparison is the toughest. It's the classic "younger, more talented, more athletic, less intangibles" versus the "seasoned veteran who has been through the reps but lacks top-end talent" debate.

However, I believe the gap between a 5th year Langdon and a sophomore Redick is wider than you are acknowledging. Could very well be due to Langdon having Brand inside sucking up the defense. So I see your point.

 

[jamsession3]

Williams was young, but was a presence. He probably would have fouled out, but Shav was more than decent backup. And Shane is my favorite Duke player, but a sophomore Shane < Deng, he was that good. Watch that game. It's a good reminder. JJ had less experience, but he and Trajan had the same role with basically the same results. Duhon would have given Avery fits, I'm sorry. He made Chris Paul cry at the end of this game.

I challenge just one point, yes Duhon was a leader, but he was leader by defacto being a senior. Avery on the other hand was the leader too. Maybe not like Duhon, but his team knew at any given time he could score or make a decent play.

The whole world knew this was Elton's team, but there is a strong reason Avery was able to be the 14th pick in the summer. He provided the team with confidence when Langdon struggled or Elton was double teamed.

 

[dukehokie]

I challenge just one point, yes Duhon was a leader, but he was leader by defacto being a senior. Avery on the other hand was the leader too. Maybe not like Duhon, but his team knew at any given time he could score or make a decent play.

The whole world knew this was Elton's team, but there is a strong reason Avery was able to be the 14th pick in the summer. He provided the team with confidence when Langdon struggled or Elton was double teamed.

Avery was talented and the point guard, but Shane, Trajan and Elton were the leaders of that team as you alluded to at least with Shelden.

Duhon was far more than a leader out of necessity. That guy was a true floor general and had one of the best "leadership" seasons I've seen as a Duke fan for 33 years (Shane, Johnny and Grant were the only ones who did it better from that standpoint IMO). And since Avery was a sophomore and Duhon was a senior, in that regard, not talent, not athleticism, '04 wins out IMO.

 

[Showenuff]

It's hard for me to even enter a conversation involving that UCON game. That's one of those scenarios where if we played that team 10 times, we win 9. Our crew was just so badaass that year. I was in a foul mood for months. Hell , i'm in a foul mood now just thinking about it.

 

[dukehokie]

It's hard for me to even enter a conversation involving that UCON game. That's one of those scenarios where if we played that team 10 times, we win 9. Our crew was just so badaass that year. I was in a foul mood for months. Hell , i'm in a foul mood now just thinking about it.

Both UConn games kill me. I seriously haven't watched either one over again.

 

[Mac9192]

It's hard for me to even enter a conversation involving that UCON game. That's one of those scenarios where if we played that team 10 times, we win 9. Our crew was just so badaass that year. I was in a foul mood for months. Hell , i'm in a foul mood now just thinking about it.

I know it Show. What ya say we grab Hokie up, and drop him off at Guru Gary's house (Pop up camper) and make him watch Roy Williams video "How to call an effective timeout" with Goober Gary himself

 

[hart2chesson]

You two better learn to get along, you're both mods.

Mac, didnt they just break some code or something among mods???!!! I think you know what just froze over!!!!

OFC

 

[Stevo-910]

Both UConn games kill me. I seriously haven't watched either one over again.

yep 99 i was so pissed still in high school. 04 i was so pissed and pretty sure i dont rember much of anything that night.

 

[dukehokie]

I know it Show. What ya say we grab Hokie up, and drop him off at Guru Gary's house (Pop up camper) and make him watch Roy Williams video "How to call an effective timeout" with Goober Gary himself

Whoa whoa let's not make this personal. Haha

 

[timo0402]

Avery was talented and the point guard, but Shane, Trajan and Elton were the leaders of that team as you alluded to at least with Shelden.

Duhon was far more than a leader out of necessity. That guy was a true floor general and had one of the best "leadership" seasons I've seen as a Duke fan for 33 years (Shane, Johnny and Grant were the only ones who did it better from that standpoint IMO). And since Avery was a sophomore and Duhon was a senior, in that regard, not talent, not athleticism, '04 wins out IMO.

Now that I've "calmed down" I love how a few posts earlier you said they had no clear leader then named three leaders. So a senior Trajan is or is not a leader in your opinion? Let me answer for you- he was a much better leader than duhon who I played beer pong with senior year. I won't say when it was bc I don't want you to think he wasn't a leader- he was. He was also a fantastic beer pong player. Bottom line was Langdon was a much better leader and had more help as you acknowledged. I pegged you for better than this, but I guess even the almighty @dukehokie can miss a few.

 

[pisgah101]

Now that I've "calmed down" I love how a few posts earlier you said they had no clear leader then named three leaders. So a senior Trajan is or is not a leader in your opinion? Let me answer for you- he was a much better leader than duhon who I played beer pong with senior year. I won't say when it was bc I don't want you to think he wasn't a leader- he was. He was also a fantastic beer pong player. Bottom line was Langdon was a much better leader and had more help as you acknowledged. I pegged you for better than this, but I guess even the almighty @dukehokie can miss a few.

Tell us when!!!!!

 

[pisgah101]

I'll take 04 but I was 9 in 99 and don't really remember it haha

 

[dukehokie]

Now that I've "calmed down" I love how a few posts earlier you said they had no clear leader then named three leaders. So a senior Trajan is or is not a leader in your opinion? Let me answer for you- he was a much better leader than duhon who I played beer pong with senior year. I won't say when it was bc I don't want you to think he wasn't a leader- he was. He was also a fantastic beer pong player. Bottom line was Langdon was a much better leader and had more help as you acknowledged. I pegged you for better than this, but I guess even the almighty @dukehokie can miss a few.

I'm not sure if you plan on naming your first born Trajan or something but I obviously hit a nerve. Look man, I'm not saying Langdon was no leader and I did name three leaders for that squad, but there in lies the problem. Who is the guy gets the team settled down when there's three guys who share duties? '04 had Duhon, or I guess the king of beer pong or whatever.

'04 has the advantage IMO. It's not sweep or whatever you were talking last night, but '04 could take '99.

 

[hart2chesson]

We have 2 mods going at it-pass the popcorn guys! Film at 11!

OFC

 

[timo0402]

I'm not sure if you plan on naming your first born Trajan or something but I obviously hit a nerve. Look man, I'm not saying Langdon was no leader and I did name three leaders for that squad, but there in lies the problem. Who is the guy gets the team settled down when there's three guys who share duties? '04 had Duhon, or I guess the king of beer pong or whatever.

'04 has the advantage IMO. It's not sweep or whatever you were talking last night, but '04 could take '99.

My nerves are just fine, I just prefer when people don't talk in circles like you do. I'm all for thinking outside the box, but sometimes you don't need to over complicate it. Bottom line is that 99 team would win in at max 6 games vs 04. Avery would run circles around Duhon. It's a pg driven game. And both at soph year- brand the natl player of the year would destroy Sheldon.

I think you're in the clear minority here and now if you backtrack any further you'll go into last week.

 

[dukehokie]

What?! Mod hat's gotta come off for a sec. Talking in circles? If you'd contribute to the conversations sometimes maybe you'd see how crazy that statement is. A clear statement was made that you chose to ignore.

I'm cool with saying my debate is on the underdog side here. '99 was just a special team, but I don't think '04 is so far behind and I could see a scenario where you can say they're better. Maybe you can't see that beyond the Langdon glasses.

 

[timo0402]

What?! Mod hat's gotta come off for a sec. Talking in circles? If you'd contribute to the conversations sometimes maybe you'd see how crazy that statement is. A clear statement was made that you chose to ignore.

I'm cool with saying my debate is on the underdog side here. '99 was just a special team, but I don't think '04 is so far behind and I could see a scenario where you can say they're better. Maybe you can't see that beyond the Langdon glasses.

You specifically said 04 was better, I'm saying not only are you wrong you're not even close. You're talking a career JJ and Sheldon and putting them in the 2004 roster. They weren't there yet. This one isn't close. Sorry "mod".

 

[Mac9192]

What?! Mod hat's gotta come off for a sec. Talking in circles? If you'd contribute to the conversations sometimes maybe you'd see how crazy that statement is. A clear statement was made that you chose to ignore.

I'm cool with saying my debate is on the underdog side here. '99 was just a special team, but I don't think '04 is so far behind and I could see a scenario where you can say they're better. Maybe you can't see that beyond the Langdon glasses.

Oh Sheeet! This is better than McGregor and Mayweather. Let's get ready to RUMBLE!!

 

[dukehokie]

You specifically said 04 was better, I'm saying not only are you wrong you're not even close. You're talking a career JJ and Sheldon and putting them in the 2004 roster. They weren't there yet. This one isn't close. Sorry "mod".

Video included for further study on JJ and Shelden's prowess. And it's SheldEn. With an E. Come on man, bandwagon Duke fans know that.