It took you 11 years to figure that out? I kid, I kid. He’s unreal. That jumper is so ultra-smooth.
Eric Gordon has to be a factor or Houston can’t keep up.
NBA Playoffs Thread
- Thread starter dukiejay
- Start date
It took you 11 years to figure that out? I kid, I kid. He’s unreal. That jumper is so ultra-smooth.
Eric Gordon has to be a factor or Houston can’t keep up.
The other stars on the warriors are tough to slow down but then Durant is unstoppable
Agreed. The Celts will stand pat next year, though Marcus Smart is probably gone. He won't take any hometown discount, and it seems likely that some other teams will offer more than the Celts are able to pay.
.
So, take Kyrie and Rozier through next year and see where things stand. But, by next summer, the Celts are going to have to make some hard decisions, and Kyrie's injury history are going to loom large.
I would do absolutely anything to not have KD on the Warriors. It has ruined the league, no one has a chance against them for the next 3-5 years, unless there is a major injury.
I don't buy that the Celtics or 76ers will be able to beat the Warriors in the short term, and that is understanding that both teams could add another superstar or 2.
The Rockets did about everything they needed to do...Harden went crazy, CP3 was solid, AND they got a Curry off-night........Warriors still won in Houston by double-digits. Please, the season is over, unfortunately.
Adam Silver needs to morph into David Stern and take action against the Warriors, make them trade some one...I'm not kidding, that is something that Stern may have done.
I don't buy that the Celtics or 76ers will be able to beat the Warriors in the short term, and that is understanding that both teams could add another superstar or 2.
The Rockets did about everything they needed to do...Harden went crazy, CP3 was solid, AND they got a Curry off-night........Warriors still won in Houston by double-digits. Please, the season is over, unfortunately.
Adam Silver needs to morph into David Stern and take action against the Warriors, make them trade some one...I'm not kidding, that is something that Stern may have done.
Ruined the league?
There's never been more than a few teams in any year that have a chance at winning the title. If you're right, and we only have one team with a chance now, then only a couple other teams are affected. Every other team is in the same position. You just happen to root for one of those couple of other teams that is affected, and now the sky is falling.
They've won one Championship with this team and now we need intervention? MJ dominated for six years, did we need intervention then? I'm a free market guy, so I say let it be. They didn't make the rules, they just used them to their advantage
We will have this conversation 5 years from now after they have have won 5 more titles and then let’s see how you feel.
My argument is based a lot off last nights game. The rockets did EVERYTHING they needed to do to win, and still lost by double digits. The ONE SEED rockets that is.
I'm starting to think it's a good possibility that the Celtics might beat the Cavs, and could give the Warriors a fit. It's all due to how Stevens is as a coach. He has the respect of his players, and it seems every move he makes works. If they get by the Cavs, he has plenty of options to throw at G.S. Tonight's game will tell a lot. I'm not discounting Lebron. But if the Celtics win tonight, the fat lady will start warming up her vocals. Then give him a few days to prepare his team. Not saying the Warriors will lose, but maybe if he could slow Thompson down. Possibly easier said than done, but I think that's a better scenario than trying to shut Durant or Curry down.
I think except for Hakeem's Rockets in 95 (acquired Drexler at trade deadline) no team lower than a 3 seed has Won the title in many decades
NBA has basically always been shady. Some that come to mind
- Russell drafting rights to Boston
- Wilt and Kareem to Lakers
- Magic / Bird drafting rights
- Spurs sandbagging for Duncan
- Gasol traded to Lakers
- KG traded to Boston (start of Super Teams?)
- James joining Miami
- KD joining Warriors
There are many more that escape me this morning. At least today its free agent signings while in the past it was financially struggling franchises selling pennies on the dollar. Then you have "bad apples" like Rodman traded for Will Perdue throwing off the balance.
This is the NBA. This has always been the NBA.
NBA has basically always been shady. Some that come to mind
- Russell drafting rights to Boston
- Wilt and Kareem to Lakers
- Magic / Bird drafting rights
- Spurs sandbagging for Duncan
- Gasol traded to Lakers
- KG traded to Boston (start of Super Teams?)
- James joining Miami
- KD joining Warriors
There are many more that escape me this morning. At least today its free agent signings while in the past it was financially struggling franchises selling pennies on the dollar. Then you have "bad apples" like Rodman traded for Will Perdue throwing off the balance.
This is the NBA. This has always been the NBA.
I think this is just a soft take and wreaks of sour grapes. It was ok for the Cavs to sign Lebron and trade for Kevin Love, to pair with Kyrie? Or for the Heat to sign bron and bosh in the same off season only to sign Ray Allen a season or two later? The warriors drafted curry, Klay and draymond. Do you really think as smart as they are they knew they’d all be as good as they were? They considered trading all three of these guys. They go somewhat lucky that Steph had multiple injuries early in his career that he had to take a sweetheart deal for the organization in retrospect. They had the money. It’s not their fault that OKC screwed up having KD, Russ and Harden. There are always going to be dyanstys and they’re going to attract other star vets. Happened with the bulls, happened with the lakers and spurs and now with the Warriors. It’s actually good for the league. Yes the rockets had a better record in the regular season which as we all know means absolutely little. The Cavs with Lebron were the four seed. It doesn’t matter to a guy like Bron nor to a team like the Warriors. Curry missed a boatload of time, they were complacent and bored. Everyone knows who the better team is and it’s on the rockets to dethrone them much like it is on the Celtics to dethrone bron. I still think the Cavs win in 6, I’m rooting for the Celtics but until proven otherwise it’s on them to beat the King.
I mean, yes, my grapes are sour.
But...Lebron and Bosh joined the Heat in 2010 with Wade, and they had to start from scratch. All MINIMUM contracts around those 3 guys, was the old CBA.
Lebron and Love came back to Cleveland and joined a 25 win Cavs team, the only asset was Kyrie and the top draft pick.
KD joined a team that went 73-9 and didn’t have to give up a single asset to get him, just was able to add him! Everyone realizes that, right?
That is 9999999 times different than what Lebron did.
I get that that’s smart and great planning, but as a Cavs fan, PLUS a fan of competitive basketball who enjoys all time- 7 game series (which are great for the NBA), yeah this sucks. The warriors are gonna roll for years and nobody can do a damn thing about it.
You are buying a problem that you probably don't have to purchase. KD can opt out soon, and he's not going to take another home town discount to win titles. He'll have 2 or 3, and I feel like he'll move on. If he doesn't move on, he (along with Curry) are going to tie up an enormous amount of cap space.
.
It isn't that KD himself is too much for the league. Its that him, COMBINED WITH, the rest of their roster is too much. Well, someone is going to have to hit the bricks.
.
As great as Curry and KD are, the rest of the Hamptons lineup is important as well. It is their combination that makes them so great, and I feel that taking 1 or 2 pieces away, with equivalent replacements essentially unobtainable, makes the GSW very vulnerable.
.
I mean, Draymond is the perfect small ball big (but only when surrounded by versatile scoring threats), and Klay may be the best 3 and D player in the league. It is a perfect mix, but they can't pay everyone forever. At some point, Iggy, Klay or Green is going to want to get paid, and they'll take FA money to play elsewhere.
.
Or, as I suspect, KD will leave town this, or likely NEXT, summer, once George and LBJ are safely off the market.
He gave up 33 points when he was the primary defender.
.
So he netted 8 big points for his team. They need more than that from him if they are going to win. If he'd only given up 22ish points, which isn't great, his team is within striking distance. He can't give up 33 points. That is horrendous.
This isn't an either/or situation. LBJ's move to Miami was bad. It was a total wuss move.
.
But KD's was a much worse move, and much more of a wuss move.
.
Just because KD's move was a bad one, doesn't make LBJ's move "good." KD's was just worse, and it is sort of fun watching KD bristle at the flack he is correctly receiving.
I understand that money is about the only chance that another team has of winning a title in the next 5 years. You're right, that is the only hope the league has and there is a chance that someone gets greedy, but I would doubt it given the dollars that these guys make off the court. Obviously KD and Steph, but Klay also makes a ton on his deal with the Chinese shoe company. Draymond may not make a ton off the court, but he strikes me as someone who values winning over everything, I also hate Draymond Green. Iggy wouldn't diminish how good the Warriors are, plus I think he will "fall-off" next year.
I'm not gonna say Lebron's move to Miami was great or anything, but in the 7 years he played on the Cavs (03-10) they completely bombed just about every transaction that they could. Their biggest FA signing? 38 year old Shaq or Antwan Jamison.
Their best non-Lebron player? Mo Williams, gulp.
This is more than a rumor, has been discussed on MANY podcasts, but apparently the Cavs and Suns in 2009 had a massive trade involving the Cavs getting Amare Stoudemire (MVP level Amare, before the injuries), and the Cavs turned down the trade offer because the Cavs refused to include young JJ Hickson in the deal. (Was out of the league within a few years) I'd say that story sums up the Cavs management from 2003-2010.
KD played with Russell Westbrook in OKC. Also had Harden for a few years. Lebron had Larry Hughes and Zyndrunas Ilgauskas.
It is one thing for guys like Klay, or Draymond, to take 4-5 million less to stay on a winner. Or 10-15 OVER THE COURSE OF THE ENTIRE CONTRACT. But to keep this team together, someone (or a couple of guys) are going to have to take 30+ LESS over the life of the contract. By this point, endorsements won't off set that.
.
It is easy when you are a young, single guy to say EFF the money, lets win baby. Once you have 2-3 rings, and a family, that extra 30+ million looms large. And that is before agents and mangers (who work on commission) get ahold of your ear.
No, this is going to implode over money, and probably next summer. Guys are leaving too much on the table.
Also, don't say "Cavs management" like that is a legitimate thing that exists. LBJ. Say LeBron James. He is now, and was then, the de facto GM of the Cavs. He OK'd every deal, if not actively setting them up. He built a miserable roster around him during his first run with the Cavs, without taking the credit/blame for his poor decisions, and then walked away when it inevitably collapsed around him. Now that he's back, he still running the team. That is why he came back, because the Cavs were the ONLY team that would let him make all the decisions.
I take it you absolutely hated when the Celtics traded for KG and Ray Allen to pair with Pierce and Rondo then? Probably thought they’d win the next 3-4 in a row and ruin the nba? Then the aftermath is we got a couple awesome finals with the lakers and a passing of the torch with the next would be dynasty In Miami.
Notice not much X's and O's discussion in this thread.
Mostly: how much will the players be paid and how much effort will they actually give
NBA today is manufactured drama over substance
Mostly: how much will the players be paid and how much effort will they actually give
NBA today is manufactured drama over substance
Lol I did hate it.
I thought Lebron with 4 average guys had a chance at the 2008 title and more until that happened.
Lebron had no part in decisions until his 2nd go-around with the Cavs. Again, they were an abomination the first run.
I would like to see a single article or story refererencing Lebron had any role in management the first run? I lived through it, him and Dan Gilbert never got along the first run because Gilbert WOULDNT GIVE LEBRON ANY POWER.
Yes, Lebron has made way too many “win-now” moves since he came back to the team.
You could easily argue that Duke's problems the last few years have mostly been because of defensive effort.
Every credible NBA reporter has stated that LBJ was a driving force in the GM's office during his first run with the Cavs. At least, he had a Veto decision over major moves.
.
That is why he left the Heat. He tried to exert the same control, and Riley told him to pound sand, and that all LBJ need to do was show up and play.
.
LBJ is a tremendous player. Those guys tend to be really, really bad at running teams. They can, SOMETIMES, coach well enough. But top tier players tend to make horrible GMs.
KD took the easy way out by joining a 73 win team, plain & simple. League MVP's don't join all-time record setting rosters. Kyrie was no Klay or Steph before Lebron arrived. Love is an above average role player, nothing more.
I think KD was smart to do what he did. If you want a ring bad enough, join the good team and take a lil less money, lol. Still gotta hit the gym, work hard and make the shots in the game.
Glad to see Warriors and Celtics got their wins in the first game. Hope they both make it.
Glad to see Warriors and Celtics got their wins in the first game. Hope they both make it.
This is what it comes down to. KD didn't leave to form a super team. He joined a super team that was ALREADY formed. There's a difference. It was the team that literally had won the most regular season games in the history of the NBA and would have been back to back champs if Steph had not gotten hurt. It was the weakest move I have ever seen a superstar make.
Not only did KD join the winningest team in the history of the game, it was the team that had just eliminated him after he had a 3-1 lead. If there is a weaker expression than "If you can't beat them, join them," I don't know what it is.
Him joining them after being up 3-1 is what makes what he did appear taking the easy way out. I don’t think many can argue that. Having said that, that’s a different argument than the one that J-will originally brought up. I also don’t think the Warriors were a superteam until KD joined them. Yes they won the most regular season games and then didn’t finish it off. Crazy mentioned they “would have won back to back” and i think you meant if Draymond hadn’t been suspended, don’t think Steph got hurt. However, the year prior which btw was the first year they made it, they were pushed to the limit with a Cavs team who lost Kyrie (Who outplayed Steph in game one before getting hurt) and they didn’t have love, who was a beast in the playoffs before he got hurt. I’d argue the Cavs win that series if those two play, very confident in saying that. The Warriors has a great regular season and don’t get me wrong were clearly a great team but i would hardly have called them a superteam.
I don’t blame LBJ for leaving Cleveland the 1st time. Management did nothing to build a good supporting cast around him.
My only counter to this would be that Lebron is/was the management.
I think they were a "superteam" prior to KD's arrival, and he obviously put them into a whole other stratosphere. Before he got there they had played for the last two championships, winning one. The 73 can't be discounted, even though that season did not end with a ring. Teams led by Jordan, Russell, Kobe, Chamberlain, Magic, Bird, etc. were never able to win that many games. Doing something unprecedented is a big deal. They were easily the class of the NBA, and then they added probably the second best player in the NBA.
Agree with all of this.
The Warriors have been a super-team since 2015. They went 73-9 and blew a 3-1 finals lead. Before they choked in the finals, the "is this the greatest basketball team ever" discussion was happening. They were being compared to the 1996 Bulls on a DAILY BASIS. They would have won that finals if...
a. Draymond doesn't punch Lebron in the balls and get a 1 game suspension.
b. Lebron and Kyrie don't turn into supermen and put up the greatest 3 game stretch by a duo I have ever seen.
c. Lebron doesn't have the greatest chasedown block in the history of chasedown blocks.
Basically....the Warriors choked away the 2016 finals, they were still one of the greatest basketball teams I have ever seen. But they lost to 2 guys who were just on a whole different stratosphere than anyone else.
So a superteam lost to two guys? I don’t buy that. They had the best regular season- after that season Kerr admitted how much it took out of them and that they were openly going for the record rather than doing what most great teams do and coast for the spring. If you don’t think a few of those laker teams with Kobe and Shaq, or certainly a couple of those Miami teams couldn’t have done it then your crazy. Or even the two Warrior super teams with KD. KD made them a superteam. Ironic that we say two superhuman guys is the only reason they lost the finals, but the series prior two super human guys blew their own 3-1 lead on the warriors that would have cost them even MAKING IT. Steph, Klay, Draymond Harrison Barnes and the euro dude in the middle is not a superteam. I get you’re trying to make it a thing but it’s just not the truth. Wade in his prime, bron in his prime, bosh in his prime, a solid mike miller, adding a lethal Ray Allen, a defensive stopper in Battier and vets like Haslem, that’s a superteam. KD joining the warriors- that’s a superteam.
The 96 Bulls went 72-10 and they did go all out EVERY SINGLE GAME. MJ played all 82 games that season and played hard all 82 games. Many consider them to be the best team ever, and the fact that they couldn't win more than 72 games, I don't buy that the Kobe/Shaq Lakers or the Lebron Heat could. So yes, 73-9 is incredible and no team has been able to do it yet, even those that tried to win every single game.
And yes, the best player ever (at the peak of his powers, maybe the best 3 game stretch he has ever played) along with a superstar (also at the peak oh his powers, definitely the best 3 game stretch he has ever played) knocked off a superteam, AND NEEDED A LOT OF LUCK TO DO IT. Such as Draymond getting suspended, the Warriors going ice cold in game 7, etc.
When the Cavs beat the Warriors in 7, I was just as happy as the 2015 Duke title, I went to the Cavs parade, got to meet JR Smith with his shirt off etc. But I'm not a fool, the Cavs got very lucky, the Warriors were better (maybe the best team ever.)
how was LBJ move to Miami bad?...3 guys, a great destination, and a gang of role players.....he gave Cleveland 7 years and they never really gave him a chance with the roster.....cleveland isnt a destination of choice imo
If anybody is contending that Jordan didn't really, really want to win all of the 82 games he stepped on the floor in 1996 (or any other year), then they don't know a thing about MJ. And yes, he played all 82 games that season. They just weren't able to do it because it is incredibly hard. I would contend the same thing about a guy like Kobe, who's personality is very similar to Jordan's. With his uber-competitive nature, he would have loved to author the winningest season in basketball history.
Edit - I missed jwill's post above, where he said the same things but much more eloquently.
Edit - I missed jwill's post above, where he said the same things but much more eloquently.
Last edited:
Again, LBJ assembled the roster in Cleveland prior to him leaving the first time. His "entourage" had unprecedented access to the facility and team. He had final approval on coaching changes. He had to OK every major roster move.
.
He was primarily responsible for the rosters that couldn't get over the hump. When he realized that he'd constructed an unwieldy roster that had no room to make any moves, he just left. And he went and joined up with 2 other stars to win titles.
.
No one is saying it wasn't a good move for LBJ. It was. But it wasn't the tough path that necessitates hard work, intelligence, or sacrifice. He took the easiest path forward. And then got mad when he wasn't universally praised.
.
Again, (again) LBJ tried to do this again in Miami, and Riley politely declined his interference. At which point LBJ left. He's at it again in Cleveland on the return trip. He forced the trade of Wiggins for Love. He alienated Kyrie. He's been the driving force behind all roster moves, and it hamstrings the franchise. You can't say, "the roster wasn't' good enough for him to win" because HE BUILT THE ROSTERS.
Similar threads
