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NBA Playoffs Thread

The fact that Lebron had to have a career game last night and the Cavs still squeaked out a W is scary, I'm worried.

I will never understand how people dislike Lebron. From his childhood, growing up in the projects of Akron, (Akron is no joke btw) to where he is now is an amazing story. Guy has been in the spotlight since he was 16 and never had a major scandal.
But oh well, some people just don't like greatness. I get it, I guess.

I'm pretty neutral on Lebron.....hardly a Lebron bobo, though.

I think he still catches some flak for the whole 'I'm taking my talents to Miami' thing. Also, there's this perception of him being in control and getting Blatt fired. Now, of course a player of his magnitude is going to hold more clout than some regular rotation player, but I can understand how that could have rubbed people the wrong way. I think if he leaves Cleveland again it will only get worse in most people's eyes. Frankly, I hope he stays there.

All that said, you're right....he's never been in trouble, he's a model citizen, appears to be a great husband and father and has obviously been great for the game and NBA.
 
I'm pretty neutral on Lebron.....hardly a Lebron bobo, though.

I think he still catches some flak for the whole 'I'm taking my talents to Miami' thing. Also, there's this perception of him being in control and getting Blatt fired. Now, of course a player of his magnitude is going to hold more clout than some regular rotation player, but I can understand how that could have rubbed people the wrong way. I think if he leaves Cleveland again it will only get worse in most people's eyes. Frankly, I hope he stays there.

All that said, you're right....he's never been in trouble, he's a model citizen, appears to be a great husband and father and has obviously been great for the game and NBA.
All fair points you make. The 2010 televised announcement to Miami was the biggest mistake of his career, no debating that. Though it made total sense for him to bounce to Miami at the time, he gave Cleveland 7 years and they totally mismanaged the roster for all 7 of those years. His best teammate was who, Mo Williams?? Plus the media was already on the whole " this guy needs multiple championships if he ever wants to be anywhere near MJ" storyline.

I want him to stay in Cleveland too, always been a Cavs fan even before Lebron. Plus I get to watch him for 82 games on local television, can't beat that. But if he is still ring-chasing, it makes sense for him to leave, and to stay in the East.
 
The fact that Lebron had to have a career game last night and the Cavs still squeaked out a W is scary, I'm worried.

I will never understand how people dislike Lebron. From his childhood, growing up in the projects of Akron, (Akron is no joke btw) to where he is now is an amazing story. Guy has been in the spotlight since he was 16 and never had a major scandal.
But oh well, some people just don't like greatness. I get it, I guess.

I have always been surprised by that as well. I enjoy watching people who are frankly as good as anyone has ever been at what they do. Obviously those kinds of people aren't above reproach or anything. For example, I can see a rational justification for disliking Tiger Woods, with the adultery and subsequent scandal. But Lebron has none of that. If a silly, egotistical free agency announcement is enough to chastise him forever, that says a heck of a lot more about those that chastise than it does about Lebron.

This is another year that a lot of people will use against Lebron, but after watching them for these first two games, it is honestly another year that should be a real feather in his cap despite the fact that this team won't sniff a championship. There is nowhere near championship level talent on that roster - they will get as far as Lebron drags them. His finals record is held against him, but he has played with less quality rosters consistently more than any of the contemporaries he is mentioned with (Jordan, Kobe, Magic, etc.).
 
The fact that Lebron had to have a career game last night and the Cavs still squeaked out a W is scary, I'm worried.

I will never understand how people dislike Lebron. From his childhood, growing up in the projects of Akron, (Akron is no joke btw) to where he is now is an amazing story. Guy has been in the spotlight since he was 16 and never had a major scandal.
But oh well, some people just don't like greatness. I get it, I guess.

He badly mismanaged "The Decision" fiasco, as evidenced by the fact that Nike wanted nothing to do with it, and they never met a marketing opportunity they didn't like. It wasn't what he decided, but how he went about it, that rubbed some people the wrong way.
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For me, LBJ is guilty of one of the worst (non criminal) things a person can be guilty of: Hypocrisy. In his first run at Cleveland, he was the de facto GM. He made all the personnel decisions, or was at least given an absolute veto right over all major decisions. This was an open secret in the NBA. But he never owned up to that. When things went well, LBJ took all the credit, but deflected all the blame when things went badly. Yes, some of the Cleveland rosters were talent deficient, but each one was of LBJ's making. A prime reason why he left Miami was that he tried to take a lead role in personnel decisions, and Riley essentially told him to shut up, show up, and suit up. Basically, LBJ's only duty was to play ball, not help run the team. LBJ didn't like that, so he went back to Cleveland and the only franchise desperate enough to turn control over to LBJ. There were other desperate teams, but those teams' ownership groups wouldn't hand over complete control of the franchise.
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And LBJ went right back to making bad decisions wrt roster composition. He's trying to thread a needle wherein LBJ has enough help to win a title, but not so much help that LBJ isn't widely acknowledged to have done most of the real work himself. He's thrilled to have won that title in Cleveland, but you know that Kyrie making that clutch 3 late, instead of LBJ, rankles. Thus, you had a roster of overpaid cronies and favorites of LBJ, which restricted their ability to spend of FAs. FAs will take a pay cut to play with a contender, but not a huge pay cut. Further, as I said, LBJ was unwilling to woo the big names lest LBJ not get the lion's share of the credit.
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Overall, I like LBJ. He's an all time talent, and I'm thrilled to have been able to see him play. I agree that he's a pretty good guy on and off the court. But I do see why there are some legit reasons to NOT like him.
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In fairness, there are a lot of BS reasons that people don't like him, namely his outspokenness on a variety of social/political issues. There are a lot of people that want athletes to just shut up and play, and they don't like that superstar athletes are trying to use their large bullhorns to advocate positions that the fans don't like. And LBJ is arguably the most visible of such athletes, and he draws unwarranted ire as a result.
 
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I have always been surprised by that as well. I enjoy watching people who are frankly as good as anyone has ever been at what they do. Obviously those kinds of people aren't above reproach or anything. For example, I can see a rational justification for disliking Tiger Woods, with the adultery and subsequent scandal. But Lebron has none of that. If a silly, egotistical free agency announcement is enough to chastise him forever, that says a heck of a lot more about those that chastise than it does about Lebron.

This is another year that a lot of people will use against Lebron, but after watching them for these first two games, it is honestly another year that should be a real feather in his cap despite the fact that this team won't sniff a championship. There is nowhere near championship level talent on that roster - they will get as far as Lebron drags them. His finals record is held against him, but he has played with less quality rosters consistently more than any of the contemporaries he is mentioned with (Jordan, Kobe, Magic, etc.).
He has also played in arguably the worst conference in NBA history his entire career
 
Lebron is going to go down as one of the top 2 or 3 to ever play the game. I just get the feeling sometimes he thinks he's the reason the nba is what it is, and he's smarter than management. Just my opinion.
We are lucky to get to see him play. The guy is an amazing talent. No one can drag the talent he plays with as far as he's able to.
 
#HOWL

It was so fun to see a Wolves playoff game again last night in person. I know they’re not going to win the series, but I’m glad they at least kind of made it a series. I’ll be back again tomorrow night hoping for a repeat.
 
Lebron's body language on Fri night tells me he is leaving, unless somehow Kevin Love morphs into Kawhi Leonard.

Was nice to see the Wolves beat the Rockets, but all I want is for the Warriors to not win the title (sorry Quinn), and I think the Rockets are the only team that have a chance at beating them.
 
Lebron is going to go down as one of the top 2 or 3 to ever play the game. I just get the feeling sometimes he thinks he's the reason the nba is what it is, and he's smarter than management. Just my opinion.
We are lucky to get to see him play. The guy is an amazing talent. No one can drag the talent he plays with as far as he's able to.
Talent is just one aspect of this sport. James clearly ranks near the top of that category but bball IQ, fundamentals, focus/drive - not all that elite when comparing him to the greats

The ship has sailed on his career ever matching the likes of Jordan, Kareem or even Magic.

He'll have his little milestone records since others attended College (sometimes for multiple seasons) and offensive point explosion in the sport for few (mostly negative) reasons but right now

1. Duncan
2a. Shaq
2b. Kobe
4. James

Top 2 or 3 all time? How bout just finishing as the best player since Jordan
 
Talent is just one aspect of this sport. James clearly ranks near the top of that category but bball IQ, fundamentals, focus/drive - not all that elite when comparing him to the greats

The ship has sailed on his career ever matching the likes of Jordan, Kareem or even Magic.

He'll have his little milestone records since others attended College (sometimes for multiple seasons) and offensive point explosion in the sport for few (mostly negative) reasons but right now

1. Duncan
2a. Shaq
2b. Kobe
4. James

Top 2 or 3 all time? How bout just finishing as the best player since Jordan
Lebron is the 2nd best player ever behind Jordan, IMO. But if he were to somehow win a title with this lousy Cavs roster, I have him passing Jordan.

1. MJ
2. Lebron
3. Bill Russell (11 titles in 13 years, but how do we compare those titles to modern day? Russell is actually smaller than Lebron, crazy to think, and he was winning his titles against 6'6 centers who could barely dunk.)
4. Kareem (played forever and his stats are insane)
5. Magic (could be 3 if he had played longer)
6. Bird (just like Magic, could be 3 but he only played 13 seasons, and some of those he was injured.)
7. Wilt (greatest stat-counter ever, but he always lost to Russell when it mattered most)
8. Shaq (most imposing player, ever)
9. Tim Duncan (guy just won, and won alot)
10. Kobe
 
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Now that my Blazers are done (bye, Stotts), I’ll just be rooting for Duke players and whoever is playing the Warriors.
 
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Now that my Blazers are done (bye, Stotts), I’ll just be rooting for Duke players and whoever is playing the Warriors.

Not pulling for the Quinn Cook led Warriors, the one team that finally gave him a chance?
 
Lebron is the 2nd best player ever behind Jordan, IMO. But if he were to somehow win a title with this lousy Cavs roster, I have him passing Jordan.

1. MJ
2. Lebron
3. Bill Russell (11 titles in 13 years, but how do we compare those titles to modern day? Russell is actually smaller than Lebron, crazy to think, and he was winning his titles against 6'6 centers who could barely dunk.)
4. Kareem (played forever and his stats are insane)
5. Magic (could be 3 if he had played longer)
6. Bird (just like Magic, could be 3 but he only played 13 seasons, and some of those he was injured.)
7. Wilt (greatest stat-counter ever, but he always lost to Russell when it mattered most)
8. Shaq (most imposing player, ever)
9. Tim Duncan (guy just won, and won alot)
10. Kobe
How is James already, 7 spots ahead of a guy that defeated (convincingly) him twice in the Finals and was a miracle 3 from Ray Allen away from a clean sweep?

Even Dirk belittled James

Too many Finals loses and most importantly outplayed/no showed too often

We are starting a team, give me Duncan and you get James. I will win more. You'll be featured on ESPN more.
 
How is James already, 7 spots ahead of a guy that defeated (convincingly) him twice in the Finals and was a miracle 3 from Ray Allen away from a clean sweep?

Even Dirk belittled James

Too many Finals loses and most importantly outplayed/no showed too often

We are starting a team, give me Duncan and you get James. I will win more. You'll be featured on ESPN more.
Lebron is better than Duncan, that would be my reasoning. Every measurable statistic says Lebron is the better player, he has more MVP’s, and the eye-test definitely favors Lebron.

Sure Duncan has more rings (for now), but Robert Horry has more rings than any modern player, is he the best modern player?
Tim Duncan played his whole career for the Spurs, an organization who many would consider to be the best, smartest, and most stable in the sport. He played his whole career for a coach who will go down as a top 5 coach ever.
Lebron has played the majority of his career for a laughingstock of an organization (until he singlehandedly changed that.) I’d name all the coaches that Lebron has played for, but I may run out of characters.

Everyone has the right to rank players wherever they like. I listen to a lot of NBA media coverage/podcasts, and to be honest, Lebron versus Duncan isn’t even a comparable conversation because it isn’t close. Duncan versus Kobe is a fascinating comparison, i’d favor The Big Fundamental.
 
Lebron is better than Duncan, that would be my reasoning. Every measurable statistic says Lebron is the better player, he has more MVP’s, and the eye-test definitely favors Lebron.

Sure Duncan has more rings (for now), but Robert Horry has more rings than any modern player, is he the best modern player?
Tim Duncan played his whole career for the Spurs, an organization who many would consider to be the best, smartest, and most stable in the sport. He played his whole career for a coach who will go down as a top 5 coach ever.
Lebron has played the majority of his career for a laughingstock of an organization (until he singlehandedly changed that.) I’d name all the coaches that Lebron has played for, but I may run out of characters.

Everyone has the right to rank players wherever they like. I listen to a lot of NBA media coverage/podcasts, and to be honest, Lebron versus Duncan isn’t even a comparable conversation because it isn’t close. Duncan versus Kobe is a fascinating comparison, i’d favor The Big Fundamental.
MVPs are popularity contests. Indeed James is cooler and a flamboyant personality

Spurs were a choking franchise until Duncan single handily changed that. 1 title in Cleveland? Meh I think Duncan could have accomplished atleast that same with Shaq and Kobe etc. Hell maybe even Dirk or Wade win 1 in Cleveland.

James mentally weak and has been exposed as such throughout his career. Is there a numeric metric for that? I think he's fun and makes cool commercials eye test - there is a reason he almost always loses
 
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MVPs are popularity contests. Indeed James is cooler and a flamboyant personality

Spurs were a choking franchise until Duncan single handily changed that. 1 title in Cleveland? Meh I think Duncan could have accomplished atleast that same with Shaq and Kobe etc. Hell maybe even Dirk or Wade win 1 in Cleveland.

James mentally weak and has been exposed as such throughout his career. Is there a numeric metric for that? I think he's fun and makes cool commercials eye test - there is a reason he almost always loses
That was a lot of assumptions in just a few paragraphs.
I’m gonna take it that you just hate Lebron, and that’s cool, I get it. He is a lot like Duke, you either love or hate him, rarely are people neutral for Lebron or Duke.
At least we both can agree that Trajan Langdon had one of the best strokes ever.
 
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That was a lot of assumptions in just a few paragraphs.
I’m gonna take it that you just hate Lebron, and that’s cool, I get it. He is a lot like Duke, you either love or hate him, rarely are people neutral for Lebron or Duke.
At least we both can agree that Trajan Langdon had one of the best strokes ever.
I hated Kobe. And was very envious of Shaq. James loses too much to have such a strong emotion towards. My personal experience is that casual fans are very neutral about James - he is non threatening.

James = KU basketball, always near the top but rarely the Champ. Haven't the Jayhawks won 14 straight BIG12 titles? Sounds like James and the Eastern Conference

To illustrate my appreciation, James performance in the 2007 Eastern Conference Finals versus the Pistons is still IMO his greatest showing. I definitely don't have a favorite Kobe moment :D . Bastard was a ruthless killer, so many bitter nights
 
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Lebron doesn’t always play as hard as Jordan or Kobe. That’s my knock. He seems like pretty good person. That I like. He could stand to loosen up a bit, but can’t fault him there given his unique life path of struggling as a kid, gaining fame as a teen, and mega rich since 18. He’s stayed as down to Earth as one could possibly hope.
 
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How is James already, 7 spots ahead of a guy that defeated (convincingly) him twice in the Finals and was a miracle 3 from Ray Allen away from a clean sweep?

Even Dirk belittled James

Too many Finals loses and most importantly outplayed/no showed too often

We are starting a team, give me Duncan and you get James. I will win more. You'll be featured on ESPN more.

just to get in on the lebron convo.......the 2007 team that bron took to the finals had no chance at all.........the spurs were a dynasty and there isnt no shame in losing to them......yes ray allen hit a big shot (9points), but Lebron had 32, 10, and 11....his play is why that shot mattered imo.....game 7 bron 37,12, and 4...ray allen "goose egg"....aside from 2007, he split against a great spurs team/franchise.......the mavs series was just a failure period......now he has played the Warriors 3x.......1st w/o love and kyrie...won round 2...and then they add Durant
 
All fair points you make. The 2010 televised announcement to Miami was the biggest mistake of his career, no debating that. Though it made total sense for him to bounce to Miami at the time, he gave Cleveland 7 years and they totally mismanaged the roster for all 7 of those years. His best teammate was who, Mo Williams?? Plus the media was already on the whole " this guy needs multiple championships if he ever wants to be anywhere near MJ" storyline.

I want him to stay in Cleveland too, always been a Cavs fan even before Lebron. Plus I get to watch him for 82 games on local television, can't beat that. But if he is still ring-chasing, it makes sense for him to leave, and to stay in the East.

that televised announcement generated money that was all given to charity
 
Lebron doesn’t always play as hard as Jordan or Kobe. That’s my knock. He seems like pretty good person. That I like. He could stand to loosen up a bit, but can’t fault him there given his unique life path of struggling as a kid, gaining fame as a teen, and mega rich since 18. He’s stayed as down to Earth as one could possibly hope.

James is a nice guy. MJ and Kobe exhibited a number of sociopathic tendencies on the court. LJ wants to win. MJ, and to a lesser extent Kobe, want to beat the other guy. There is a difference. Kobe and MJ would cut you to watch you dies.
just to get in on the lebron convo.......the 2007 team that bron took to the finals had no chance at all.........the spurs were a dynasty and there isnt no shame in losing to them......yes ray allen hit a big shot (9points), but Lebron had 32, 10, and 11....his play is why that shot mattered imo.....game 7 bron 37,12, and 4...ray allen "goose egg"....aside from 2007, he split against a great spurs team/franchise.......the mavs series was just a failure period......now he has played the Warriors 3x.......1st w/o love and kyrie...won round 2...and then they add Durant
This is a key point. If Kyrie doesn't go down, w might be in a situation where Bron has 5 or 6 titles. If the Cavs win that first year, and then the second year again, then the GSW aren't a dynasty and KD doesn't join them. So it might have been 6 overall, with LBJ pushing MJ.
 
Lebron has lost in the finals a grand total of one time when he had the better team: the Miami loss to the Mavs (I don't think Jordan or Kobe ever played in a single finals in which they weren't clearly the better team). In every other loss, his team has been unquestioningly inferior, often significantly so, and they wouldn't have sniffed the finals without Lebron's personal heroics. This year's team falls firmly in that category. Even with the East further weakened with the Hayward and Irving injuries, I still can't see this team getting to the finals. If they do, it will be a testament to Lebron. And if they do, they will have nothing for GS or Houston.
 
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Lebron has lost in the finals a grand total of one time when he had the better team: the Miami loss to the Mavs (I don't think Jordan or Kobe ever played in a single finals in which they weren't clearly the better team). In every other loss, his team has been unquestioningly inferior, often significantly so, and they wouldn't have sniffed the finals without Lebron's personal heroics. This year's team falls firmly in that category. Even with the East further weakened with the Hayward and Irving injuries, I still can't see this team getting to the finals. If they do, it will be a testament to Lebron. And if they do, they will have nothing for GS or Houston.

Kobe actually had very little playoff success when his team wasn't, by a huge margin, the best team in the field.
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To me, this is part of LBJ's failings. He wants to win, but he wants a team barely talented enough to do it. After his adventures in Miami, he wants to win without an in-his-prime-superstar. He wants clear sidekicks. He wants to be Batman with a Jim Gordon and Robin alongside. He doesn't want to be Superman with Batman and the Flash also kicking but. Finding the right mix of players, ie ones that are good enough to help him win, but not so good that they'll detract from the amount of Credit LBJ receives, is tough. It may be impossible.
 
Lebron has lost in the finals a grand total of one time when he had the better team: the Miami loss to the Mavs (I don't think Jordan or Kobe ever played in a single finals in which they weren't clearly the better team). In every other loss, his team has been unquestioningly inferior, often significantly so, and they wouldn't have sniffed the finals without Lebron's personal heroics. This year's team falls firmly in that category. Even with the East further weakened with the Hayward and Irving injuries, I still can't see this team getting to the finals. If they do, it will be a testament to Lebron. And if they do, they will have nothing for GS or Houston.
Your assessment is fair.

But I will argue against the 2014 Heat being unquestionably inferior to the 2014 Spurs. They had just defeated them the season before. James was clearly outplayed by the other teams Small Forward (MVP Leonard). Not like it was a Center or PG that torched the Heat. That falls squarely on James

LeBron is King of filling up the stat sheet and calling it a night. As others have mentioned his attitude is: "I did my part and if that isn't good enough for this team/season ill default to my this is just a game attitude"

Only a few times in his career have I seen him decide his (inferior) team needs scoring and he'll rip off 50. Especially in today's no defense NBA? Guy should be getting 45+ on a nightly basis in the Playoffs. But IMO he doesn't possess the thick skin to handle the post game backlash when he bricks 20+ shots like MJ/Kobe did.

Great player and possibly even greater person but he would mentally crumble playing in the 80s and 90s IMO.
 
how was lebron outplayed when he averaged 28,8, and 4 to leonards 18,6,and 2.........the spurs beat the heat as a team.....spurs starting lineup avg double figures and it seems wade and bosh where MIA avg 15 and 14 respectively.......you are right bron isnt going to willingly chuck shots up like mj/kobe...they were 2gs and had that mentality, which is fine....bron looks to get his and include his teammates
 
If we ever had a player ball hog and go one on three like Hardin has this first half this board would go Balistic. The third quarter he has 22 points. The NBA is crazy.
 
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If we ever had a player ball hog and go one on three like Hardin has this first half this board would go Balistic. The third quarter he has 22 points. The NBA is crazy.

I was at the game. Harden is other-worldly. I hadn’t watched him in person until Saturday night since his days in OKC. This might sound preposterous, but I don’t think I’ve ever watched a better one-on-one player....or as you put it, one-on-three. His footwork is by far, and I mean by far, the best I’ve ever witnessed. He’s like a ballerina.
 
This Jazz Thunder game is pretty good just for the drama. Quite a few technicals so far
 
Yeah, crazy thing is that Mitchell is only going to continuously get better too. He has a lotttt of athleticism to work with. If OKC loses in the first round, I wonder what Paul George decides to do this summer.
 
Yeah, crazy thing is that Mitchell is only going to continuously get better too. He has a lotttt of athleticism to work with. If OKC loses in the first round, I wonder what Paul George decides to do this summer.
It was always a 1-year rental. Half the "superstars" in the NBA have 1 foot in Los Angeles waiting to bail.

Especially George, being a Los Angeles native. I'd say 95% chance he's a Laker next season
 
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Still not rooting for the Warriors but it’s really cool watching Cook and hearing the announcers praise his play.
 
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