Pretty much what I was thinking. Grayson was somewhat exposed last night. The only thing I would add, is that I think he was exposed some mentally too. He was visibly shaken and rattled. UK had him completely out of sorts. That's a kudos to them.
Grayson Allen's NBA potential
- Thread starter Buzzooka Joe
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Pretty much what I was thinking. Grayson was somewhat exposed last night. The only thing I would add, is that I think he was exposed some mentally too. He was visibly shaken and rattled. UK had him completely out of sorts. That's a kudos to them.
Outsider's perspective: I'm not sure he's an NBA player. No question he's a tremendous athlete, but what else does he do at a high level. His handles are very suspect, practically no left hand, which particularly hurts if he tries to play the point. His only move against UK was a straight line drive to the right which resulted in a bad, off-balance running floater or it was blocked. He didn't pull up for any mid range shots, and there were no other moves to the basket. He shot poorly from outside, but that could have just been an off night. He also wasn't very good defensively, which may be the biggest flaw. If you try to make it into the league as just a great athlete, you better be a lock down defender. And I'm not sure he is that either. He can certainly improve in these areas, just going off what I've seen.
Being a UK fan myself, he somewhat reminds me of Aaron Harrison. While Aaron is currently in the league with the Hornets, I don't think he'll stick very long. He does a lot of things pretty good, but nothing great. To really stick in the league, you better be great at 1 thing at least. Otherwise you're just another guy.
Being a UK fan myself, he somewhat reminds me of Aaron Harrison. While Aaron is currently in the league with the Hornets, I don't think he'll stick very long. He does a lot of things pretty good, but nothing great. To really stick in the league, you better be great at 1 thing at least. Otherwise you're just another guy.
He's not an NBA player....now. Can he be? Yes. You're basing your judgment solely off of one game.
For as arrogant as UK fans can be sometimes, I'm actually surprised they're not giving their team defense more credit on Grayson's struggles the other night. You'd think Grayson was some hack by reading their comments. He's not.
This is a credit to Cal and UK's defense....they had him scouted perfect. And when they made a few blocks and contested some of his shots they mentally took him out of the game too. We all know Grayson was bad the other night. He knows it as well. Even with his jump shots came hesitation. He was flustered. One game doesn't define Grayson as a player....but UK's defense the other night on him defined the game, if that makes sense.
Agree that it's only one game. With that said, I do think Grayson's play showed an alarming lack of instincts once he got into the lane. For instance, on at least a couple of those drives that ended up with blocks or ugly misses, he had an easy dump off pass to the man who the shotblocker had left. But Grayson didn't see it and/or know how to get him the ball. Also, in the one case where he did try to make a pass the roller -- he threw a bounce pass to a rolling big man who was being defended by Tyler Ulis (rather than a lob that Ulis obviously couldn't reach). That's just not being aware. Moreover, as I've mentioned before, even if you want to get a shot off -- at some point you need to realize what the other team is giving you and take a midrange shot. What alarmed me the most about the game was not that Grayson adjusted to taking difficult midrange shots that he was missing -- but that he never made the adjustment at all. The only reason Grayson stopped getting his shot blocked in the 2nd half was that he stopped trying to drive in half court sets.
At this point in Grayson's career, it does seem as if he's illequipped to make plays in the lane if the other team can cut off his straightline drive.
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The thing is, these issues were there, but until it was stopped, no one but the staff was willing to say "you need to do more". So in my opinion, all this did was wake up Grayson to knowing he needs more. If nothing else, this either redirects his attention this season, or makes him decide to stay at Duke longer than he intended after the title game.
UK or not, this would have come out at some point this season. I'm glad it was this early for the team's sake.
UK or not, this would have come out at some point this season. I'm glad it was this early for the team's sake.
And for Graysons sake. This is the first time in his collegiate career anyone has game planned to stop him. He'll adjust, he's not a bum and he's an extremely hard worker. I'm not concerned.
Nope not a bit. It'll be a season long adjustment, but it'll be worth it come March.
Lot of good takes on Grayson here. Supportive, too, despite being critical.
Grayson's play in the title game was opportunistic and scrappy. As mentally shaken as he seemed vs UK, perhaps he needs to get back in touch w/ that Grayson, as opposed to rushing this starring role.
Grayson's play in the title game was opportunistic and scrappy. As mentally shaken as he seemed vs UK, perhaps he needs to get back in touch w/ that Grayson, as opposed to rushing this starring role.
It is a small sample size, but it weighs a lot more because it came against future NBA players. There are no Sienna's or Bryant's in the NBA. Scouts look more at what you do against better competition. Sure the kid can improve. My whole point was, what else does he do at an elite level? Gotta find it in order to have more than a cup of coffee or two in the league.
No one said a word about Siena or Bryant. I'm just saying the book isn't out on him after one game.
And what else can he do? That's what we get to find out. On Tuesday night what I saw was a very defeated young man....both physically and mentally. But Duke is going to play more good teams this season. If Grayson goes into a hole after that game then I'll completely agree with you. But not right now.
Will it be the same when one of your guys has a bad shooting night. What if Jamal has a bad night against Wright State? That certainly can't help his stock right?
I don't think I am being too critical but have we expected too much from Grayson and Duke too soon? He was and is expected to be the next great Duke basketball player mostly due out of necessity and our own expectations. UK made him play like a 8th grader and I think the expectations are just too soon. This (UK) was really what, just the second game plus (Wiscy) where he was called upon to be the Duke leader? Circumstances have placed too much pressure on Grayson in just the hand full of games he has started. He is not an experienced leader, not yet, but of course he must become one asap for Duke to be successful. I think he will become that leader but no fan on on this board knows yet what exactly to expect from this young team. Its not going to be like last year because we just don't have Winslow and Jones but mostly we don't have a go to player like Quinn or Okafor yet. Okafor's just don't come around every year. I remember Timo0402 and Shownnuff and a few others warned not to have expectations like last year but we've been so successful early on we don't want to believe it and me especially. Remember last year how easy scoring was at times with an Okafor post up move or rebound tap in or an unexpected Quinn 3 pointer. Good gracious, Jahill Okafor was a great player.
update on 11-22-15, Grayson has proved me wrong and I am so happy he has. Back to back 30 and over games.
update on 11-22-15, Grayson has proved me wrong and I am so happy he has. Back to back 30 and over games.
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I think Grayson is adjusting to a new role than before. He is a marked man on the court. And Coach K is still trying to see what he has as a whole. The Kentucky game was embarrassing yes, but did that Duke team look ready to play no. Grayson will get better and make better decisions as the season goes on. Yeah he is still a future NBA player. I question Brandon Ingram's NBA potential after the season, because he is just to thin and very weak right now. He needs a full summer to get stronger.
I agree.. But Ingram will be a top 25 NBA draft pick regardless of how good or bad he plays this season.. I just hope he is able to get it together and be a big contributed on this team before he leaves after the season.
Unless he plays this way all season. He will really help himself out if he starts focusing on D for a while.
Side bar here. Since we are discussing Grayson there's a nice little hate thread over at THR started by one of their most popular posters. I think it is one of the most ridiculous threads I have ever seen on any board. This one really takes the cake but as you read on and down the thread it really gets interesting. OFC
Ingram was the number 3 player in the country in high school for good reason. I think he just hasn't found his gear or spot or moment or whatever. He has shown promise with drives to the rim, rebounds and other skill necessary moves but it just hasn't clicked for him yet and he's probably much more disappointed than we are. I feel his light will come on eventually and we'll all say wow!
I never knew Coach K referred to his own players as a-holes. That Gary-7 is a a book of knowledge isn't he!
I was very wrong too. But it was an understandable mistake. Before this weekend, he only showed three aspects of his game 1) spot up shooting, 2) straight-line drive and 3) great motor and decent hops. It was easy to peg him as being limited.
Now we saw a bunch of new things: a nice inside out dribble against VCU, JJ like catch-shoot off the curl, attacking the gap with kick out to Matt in the corner or dump off to MP3 in the short corner, Kyrie/Curry like stop on a dime and pull up with a little scissor-kick. He is much more complete than many people previously thought.
He can still improve a lot with a better handle and footwork. His first step (the fake step) of his Euro move is too heavy. Need to add a step-back to his bag of tricks and also the spin-around using the other hand move (saw DT doing these a bit).
Ideally, he should also improve his table-setting skills to increase his value in NBA. But it is hard to do that on this team as he is the best offense option.
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Actually, K did call Grayson that I'm pretty sure. It was immediately after the NC. It was actually a complement but, they desperately pine for anything bad to say about that game or the results, that's about all they can muster.
I remember hearing about that last year. If I remember correctly it had to do with how Grayson is in practice and how aggressive he is and talks a lot of trash during practice
I remember Justise saying that last season. Context, and tone is what makes the difference. As said above, it was meant as a compliment to Grayson. He was a pain in the azz to everyone else in practice.
Now, for instance, I could call some of those guys over on THR a@@holes and mean it as they are tough and aggressive posters instead of genuine azzholes...yeah, I could do that.
OFC
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Well, let Uk talk $H!t about Grayson all they want. Yep, he had a terrible game that night. It was one game. I've got a cool GRAND says they don't hold him to 6 if we meet next time. In fact, I hope they talk MAD crap about him right up until that game. Grayson is a great athlete, great shooter and best of all he's just a good quality kid. He's also the kind of kid who will never forget that Kentucky game. If he gets another chance it's gonna be epic. Every player has that horrible night, that was his. I'm over it, NEXT PLAY!
It was painful Tuesday but I'm honestly hoping we meet again. This team has already grown since then and I'm pretty excited about where we could end up!
Grayson has posted career high point totals in 4 of 5 games this year. You can't maintain that forever, but I don't think we have fully discovered how good Grayson will be. I think Grayson may be in the NBA for a long time, but I'm enjoying him at Duke. Looking forward to another career high on Wednesday.
I'm really proud of how he responded. And make no mistake, it was a historical response. The haters down the road or in Kentucky can say what ever they want, but we knew after the championship game he was most likely going to be the next HATED Duke player. Unfortunately for our enemies, you can't make him a bad kid- JJ was cocky, understandable, favorite of mine, but I could see some of the flack he got. Grayson, is a good kid and he plays harder than anyone. Awesome stuff he pulled off this weekend.
As for the team- we can't get caught needing him to score these high totals to win. I think once Luke & BI star getting going, we'll see a much more balanced attack. BI and Grayson should live at the line- especially once Luke gets it going, opening up lanes for them. Big couple games here before IU to try and get those guys in rhythm.
As for the team- we can't get caught needing him to score these high totals to win. I think once Luke & BI star getting going, we'll see a much more balanced attack. BI and Grayson should live at the line- especially once Luke gets it going, opening up lanes for them. Big couple games here before IU to try and get those guys in rhythm.
Just imagine if Grayson played for the Cheats. He would be the greatest player in sissy powder blue since Michael Jordan and a lock for both the number one pick in the lottery and for top 2 or 3 all time in the NBA. Hopefully they would be right.
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I saw a post earlier about Grayson setting a new record for points scored in the Champions Classic with 116 points.
This got me too. Especially when their coach often referred to particular players as "pets".
