Development (regression) of our role players?

[TheDude1]

Am I the only one who sometimes feels like we really do play our best overall ball early in the season? It makes me sad that have seen some regression by some of our guys, and that others have not really stepped up the way we sort of thought they would.

Not sure how those two sentences are connected, but somewhere in my head they are.

 

[dachampishere2]

The role players are who they’ve always been. But when Zion went out they had to be more than role players. That’s making them look worse

 

[Alaskan_Assassin_21]

OP, I think because early in the season roles & chemistry are still being established and this benefits talent/skill.

 

[dukiejay]

The role players are who they’ve always been. But when Zion went out they had to be more than role players. That’s making them look worse

This is pretty much what I was going to say.

I feel as though Marques has made great progress. AOC, before tonight, had been playing well...not great, but certainly providing a valuable role. Javin was definitely better before the new year, but even he’s played better the last few weeks. As for Jack, besides his terrible shooting and general lack of scoring, he’s at least providing us with something again.

Honestly, I think the biggest disappointment for me has been with Tre and Cam. And I don’t like the word disappointment, because I think it makes it sound worse. I just feel Tre hasn’t been the same player since his injury and now it’s being magnified more with Zion. Meanwhile, the one gripe with Cam coming in was consistency and motor. He’s kind of lived up to that.

So no, I don’t think our role players have regressed. I think injuries have put more on their plate and the progression of some ‘stars’ has been a little slower.

 

[sheyduke]

Zions coming back so role players are a mute point to some.

I do feel imo Alex and White have had a lot of shots they should take but differ to the alpha players.

 

[dukiejay]

Zions coming back so role players are a mute point to some.

I do feel imo Alex and White have had a lot of shots they should take but differ to the alpha players.

*Moot.

And no one is saying that. Why are you being intentionally obtuse tonight? You’re acting like how my daughter used to act when someone took her toy.

Listen....no one is saying every problem goes away with Zion. But you know what? I take my chances with him in the lineup and let things play out.

 

[Alaskan_Assassin_21]

Except for Zion, most of our team is "one-dimensional" or possibly more precisely one style dominant. Barrett drives, Redish shoots from outside, Delaurier crashes the boards, AOC/White stand on the 3point line, Boldin stays in the key.

I am a little surprised, I expected Barrett & Redish to be more well rounded. RJ tries but his shot from outside the key is too inconsistent

 

[pisgah101]

Except for Zion, most of our team is "one-dimensional" or possibly more precisely one style dominant. Barrett drives, Redish shoots from outside, Delaurier crashes the boards, AOC/White stand on the 3point line, Boldin stays in the key.

I am a little surprised, I expected Barrett & Redish to be more well rounded. RJ tries but his shot from outside the key is too inconsistent

Totally agree

 

[WI#1Dukie22]

I’m pretty surprised we are questioning Cams motor/intensity?? Cam has been frustrating at times, to me mostly due to his slippery handle, but damn I’ve been thinking he has brought it night in/night out. I think his D and rebounding is completely under appreciated

 

[PixelDevil]

Totally agree

I like the new av hahaha

 

[lyonhawk]

I’m pretty surprised we are questioning Cams motor/intensity?? Cam has been frustrating at times, to me mostly due to his slippery handle, but damn I’ve been thinking he has brought it night in/night out. I think his D and rebounding is completely under appreciated

Was going to say this too. Cam’s output has been inconsistent, but his effort has not.

 

[bmbritt]

This is pretty much what I was going to say.

I feel as though Marques has made great progress. AOC, before tonight, had been playing well...not great, but certainly providing a valuable role. Javin was definitely better before the new year, but even he’s played better the last few weeks. As for Jack, besides his terrible shooting and general lack of scoring, he’s at least providing us with something again.

Honestly, I think the biggest disappointment for me has been with Tre and Cam. And I don’t like the word disappointment, because I think it makes it sound worse. I just feel Tre hasn’t been the same player since his injury and now it’s being magnified more with Zion. Meanwhile, the one gripe with Cam coming in was consistency and motor. He’s kind of lived up to that.

So no, I don’t think our role players have regressed. I think injuries have put more on their plate and the progression of some ‘stars’ has been a little slower.

Agree with you regarding Tre but Reddish has gotten a lot better as the season has gone on. It’s difficult for role players to improve when you’ve got guys like RJ, Zion and Cam who score 90% of our points. Imagine that it makes them feel as though they can’t miss more than a couple shots in a row or they will get yanked. That’s a ton of pressure and why you see guys like Javin and AOC improve when Zion is out. That pressure goes down greatly and they can play much looser.

 

[Mac9192]

Agree with The Dude. Our bench isn’t good enough. The balance we have between our couple stars and everyone else is too big.
We know Zion and RJ will get theirs, the problem is after those 2.
We do play better in November and December, as a general rule. Doesn’t mean we can’t win it all, but someone has to step up from here forward. Problem is, we’re in March and no one makes me as confident as I think they should.

 

[pisgah101]

I like the new av hahaha

I’m
Trying for some luck

 

[denverexpat]

Agree with The Dude. Our bench isn’t good enough. The balance we have between our couple stars and everyone else is too big.
We know Zion and RJ will get theirs, the problem is after those 2.
We do play better in November and December, as a general rule. Doesn’t mean we can’t win it all, but someone has to step up from here forward. Problem is, we’re in March and no one makes me as confident as I think they should.

Mentioned in the game thread - its PG, Tre, we need to score more or drive more...Tyus was a scorer and a PG...Tre is averaging under 9pts a game....compare that to the rest of the top 10 teams or the top 20 and he isnt in there. We need PG scoring. But its late in the season

 

[layneja]

Except for Zion, most of our team is "one-dimensional" or possibly more precisely one style dominant. Barrett drives, Redish shoots from outside, Delaurier crashes the boards, AOC/White stand on the 3point line, Boldin stays in the key.

I am a little surprised, I expected Barrett & Redish to be more well rounded. RJ tries but his shot from outside the key is too inconsistent

RJ's shot from the outside is more consistent than Zion's. So if that's a criticism of RJ, what does that say for Zion?

 

[dachampishere2]

Mentioned in the game thread - its PG, Tre, we need to score more or drive more...Tyus was a scorer and a PG...Tre is averaging under 9pts a game....compare that to the rest of the top 10 teams or the top 20 and he isnt in there. We need PG scoring. But its late in the season

No we don’t. We need Tre scoring points when it’s open for him to score. We need Tre to play defense a calm the troops down and get them into a set. Tre is good at his 9 points a game. He makes up for it on defense. Y’all seem to forget we’re missing an efficient 22 point scorer. That makes a big difference. Tre has more lanes to drive when Zion is in there. Just be calm. We’ll be just fine. Being that Zion isn’t someone that has to really get plays called for him the adjustment will be smooth.

 

[dachampishere2]

This is pretty much what I was going to say.

I feel as though Marques has made great progress. AOC, before tonight, had been playing well...not great, but certainly providing a valuable role. Javin was definitely better before the new year, but even he’s played better the last few weeks. As for Jack, besides his terrible shooting and general lack of scoring, he’s at least providing us with something again.

Honestly, I think the biggest disappointment for me has been with Tre and Cam. And I don’t like the word disappointment, because I think it makes it sound worse. I just feel Tre hasn’t been the same player since his injury and now it’s being magnified more with Zion. Meanwhile, the one gripe with Cam coming in was consistency and motor. He’s kind of lived up to that.

So no, I don’t think our role players have regressed. I think injuries have put more on their plate and the progression of some ‘stars’ has been a little slower.

Cam is learning and getting more comfortable. This is a huge adjustment for him but it’ll make him better for the beginning of his NBA career. He looks more comfortable the more he has the ball. So now when we need him to score for us he can go back to these games and see how successful he was. Zion will bring much more space for him to do his thing. Zion helps everyone’s game because of his style.

 

[Alaskan_Assassin_21]

RJ's shot from the outside is more consistent than Zion's. So if that's a criticism of RJ, what does that say for Zion?

RJ attempts more than 3x as many 3 pointers per game with minimal improvement in success percentage. Zion has a quality post game to compensate.

 

[denverexpat]

No we don’t. We need Tre scoring points when it’s open for him to score. We need Tre to play defense a calm the troops down and get them into a set. Tre is good at his 9 points a game. He makes up for it on defense. Y’all seem to forget we’re missing an efficient 22 point scorer. That makes a big difference. Tre has more lanes to drive when Zion is in there. Just be calm. We’ll be just fine. Being that Zion isn’t someone that has to really get plays called for him the adjustment will be smooth.

We can agree to disagree... uncheatsguards scored 53 of their 79 today...so we didnt defend them well nor did we match their scoring from that position....we scored 9pts from that position

 

[Mac9192]

Cam is learning and getting more comfortable. This is a huge adjustment for him but it’ll make him better for the beginning of his NBA career. He looks more comfortable the more he has the ball. So now when we need him to score for us he can go back to these games and see how successful he was. Zion will bring much more space for him to do his thing. Zion helps everyone’s game because of his style.

Look, I like Cam. He definitely has plenty of potential. His ball handling isn’t any better in March than it was in December. Are you watching the same guy I’ve been watching all season?
Honestly, I ain’t concerned with what he does in the nba. For us to have scissors in our hands in April, he has to be better.

 

[dachampishere2]

We can agree to disagree... uncheatsguards scored 53 of their 79 today...so we didnt defend them well nor did we match their scoring from that position....we scored 9pts from that position

Do you realize Tre averages 9 points a game? He has always averaged that. That didn’t stop us before. Y’all are criticizing this team minus Zion. This isn’t the same team without him. Weaknesses tend to stick out more when you’re missing your super glue guy.

 

[crazyduke3]

Javin can be something awful sometimes that’s for sure.

Just need other guys to really step up their scoring and it hasn’t happened outside of Alex some.

 

[tp394]

I’m pretty surprised we are questioning Cams motor/intensity?? Cam has been frustrating at times, to me mostly due to his slippery handle, but damn I’ve been thinking he has brought it night in/night out. I think his D and rebounding is completely under appreciated

I agree with you. His shot isn’t always falling but it never seems like he’s not playing hard. His defense has still been good. The think with cam is he doesn’t show too much emotion and that’s where i think people get it from. He always seems calm and i think people mistake that for being a little lazy. I think it’s just how he carries himself that people think that. But as for his play am i the only one who gets so nervous when he drives? He seems like when ever he drives he turns the ball up somehow or gets blocked. Just seems a little reckless when he drives

 

[dachampishere2]

Look, I like Cam. He definitely has plenty of potential. His ball handling isn’t any better in March than it was in December. Are you watching the same guy I’ve been watching all season?
Honestly, I ain’t concerned with what he does in the nba. For us to have scissors in our hands in April, he has to be better.

Sound like you’re expecting all star performances from these guys every game. It’s not going to happen. Cam has showed up in big games as long as he’s not in foul trouble. It’s the games against lesser competition that he doesn’t look good

 

[pisgah101]

Sound like you’re expecting all star performances from these guys every game. It’s not going to happen. Cam has showed up in big games as long as he’s not in foul trouble. It’s the games against lesser competition that he doesn’t look good

Great players show up every game

 

[dukiejay]

Great players show up every game

No one is saying Cam is great, though. He tends to look like a freshman more than the others, I’ll give you that. Sometimes part of it, IMO, is seeing how good Zion and RJ consistently are, so our expectations change for the others.

 

[Mac9192]

Sound like you’re expecting all star performances from these guys every game. It’s not going to happen. Cam has showed up in big games as long as he’s not in foul trouble. It’s the games against lesser competition that he doesn’t look good

You might want to read what you posted. Cam’s game tonight is about spot on with how he’s been all season. He looked like one of the best players in the country in the 1st half, then followed that up with a 1-12 performance in the 2nd half.
That is Duke’s biggest issue, as long as we get Zion back Thursday.

We have others, but a healthy Zion masks a lot of them.

 

[pisgah101]

No one is saying Cam is great, though. He tends to look like a freshman more than the others, I’ll give you that. Sometimes part of it, IMO, is seeing how good Zion and RJ consistently are, so our expectations change for the others.

Agreed but he should be capable of being at least consistent. It’s frustrating hearing his potential then dealing with his disappearance act so much. But then again everyone outside of Zion and RJ do that

 

[Mpm277]

Cam legit needs another year, imo. I don't mean that as a knock on him in any way.

 

[Alaskan_Assassin_21]

Cam legit needs another year, imo. I don't mean that as a knock on him in any way.

I was just peaking at Paul George's stats in College. A player Cam is projected to resemble. Both players average 14 PPG their freshman season. George played a 2nd season at Fresno State before being drafted 10th overall...

 

[2 skerz 3]

I’m pretty surprised we are questioning Cams motor/intensity?? Cam has been frustrating at times, to me mostly due to his slippery handle, but damn I’ve been thinking he has brought it night in/night out. I think his D and rebounding is completely under appreciated

Questioning his effort over RJ’s on the defensive end is mind boggling to me. Cam doesn’t always play well but he plays his ass off on BOTH ends.

 

[dachampishere2]

You might want to read what you posted. Cam’s game tonight is about spot on with how he’s been all season. He looked like one of the best players in the country in the 1st half, then followed that up with a 1-12 performance in the 2nd half.
That is Duke’s biggest issue, as long as we get Zion back Thursday.

We have others, but a healthy Zion masks a lot of them.

He carried us through the first and RJ picked up his scoring in the 2nd. He scored over 20. He give us that with Zion back and we’re good. Like I said y’all are judging us without Zion. He’ll be back.

 

[IPSYCHOSIS]

Questioning his effort over RJ’s on the defensive end is mind boggling to me. Cam doesn’t always play well but he plays his ass off on BOTH ends.

Lol I agree. RJ is a great player but he ain’t going #2 in the draft....I’ll just leave that at that

 

[dachampishere2]

Great players show up every game

You know there's only a few great players every season right? Cam has always been about potential. His ceiling is super high. Plus he has taken on a role that he has never played before. 3 point shooting was never his biggest strength. Being able to score with the ball in his hands and playmaking were his strengths in high school. Once he gets stronger, he will become more consistent

 

[Mac9192]

You know there's only a few great players every season right? Cam has always been about potential. His ceiling is super high. Plus he has taken on a role that he has never played before. 3 point shooting was never his biggest strength. Being able to score with the ball in his hands and playmaking were his strengths in high school. Once he gets stronger, he will become more consistent

Sometimes you make sense, then there’s other times (like your last few posts) you are out in left field, when you’re supposed to be in right field.
What you’re not taken into account is Cam is a one and done. Not that most one and dones don’t have flaws, it’s just that we don’t expect them to be as glaring as his are.

Alex, Bolden, and even Jack, have potential. Saying Cam has potential isn’t helping Duke, or that his ceiling is high. We were saying that in November.

We need consistency, and preferably the positive kind. Like now.

 

[pisgah101]

You know there's only a few great players every season right? Cam has always been about potential. His ceiling is super high. Plus he has taken on a role that he has never played before. 3 point shooting was never his biggest strength. Being able to score with the ball in his hands and playmaking were his strengths in high school. Once he gets stronger, he will become more consistent

Okay so when he’s in the NBA and it doesn’t benefit us? We’d be just as well on the offensive side of the ball for the future with Alex getting half cams touches. May “hurt” us in a couple games this year but the next two might be better. Who cares about potential

 

[TheDude1]

You know there's only a few great players every season right? Cam has always been about potential. His ceiling is super high. Plus he has taken on a role that he has never played before. 3 point shooting was never his biggest strength. Being able to score with the ball in his hands and playmaking were his strengths in high school. Once he gets stronger, he will become more consistent

Every time he handles the ball I get nervous.

 

[sheyduke]

*Moot.

And no one is saying that. Why are you being intentionally obtuse tonight? You’re acting like how my daughter used to act when someone took her toy.

Listen....no one is saying every problem goes away with Zion. But you know what? I take my chances with him in the lineup and let things play out.

No I’m just simply saying teams had already began to pack the paint and figure out Duke even with Zion in the line up.
I do believe Alex for example has a lot of shots he should take but differs to others( which I get is part of his maturity on the court) White is still on the dense with his offense as well.
I also do get the feeling some of the players are waiting for Zion to return so he can hide some of their weaknesses on the court but you’ll need White, Alex , Goldwire and especially Javin to step up and help.

 

[jwill133]

I agree with everyone who finds it to be frustrating that guys like Javin haven't progressed as rapidly as 4 year guys say 20 years ago.

The way I see it is given the NCAA today and guys wanting out of college as quickly as possible, the 3 and 4 year guys just aren't as good as they were 20 years ago.
Does Jack White even get the chance to play for Duke if this was the 90's?
I know Javin was a 4 star guy, but he just doesn't have a lot of good basketball skills. I don't think is on the staff. They can only do so much.
No way Goldwire would have ever been recruited by Duke if the staff knew who was gonna be there for years moving forward.

Basically...juniors/seniors today just aren't very good. If they are good, they aren't playing in college. This wasn't the case back in the day when the best players were upperclassmen.


And with all that said, I still think K is building our teams with the best possible chance to win another national title. Get the top tier talent and then pray the upperclassmen can fill in the small gaps.