so conor what are your thoughts on the oline? just reading peoples comments they seem to be very positive. i was a little surprised this week when that nfl prospect review came out and they were talking graham barton being the main guy to watch. in my head i just always had monk as the next level guy.
duke football news
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Story off of today's scrimmage.
I thought balance was the theme -- interested to see if Elko saw it that way when we get to talk to him Tuesday.
On the O-line ... It's in the story that Monk has moved to center. This is kind of awkward to talk about without being able to discuss depth-chart things, but I'll put it like this: In the spring the staff really talked up the O-line, made it seem like that was the area they were "least" concerned about. Then they went out and added two transfers (Chance Lytle and Andre Harris) who look like they'll play a bunch and moved Monk to the one position he hadn't played in the last 3 years.
I don't think their O-line is bad, per se ... just maybe not as strong as they made it seem in the spring. You've probably seen me say this before, that Pro Football Focus is not the gospel, but PFF loves Graham Barton. So you've got that weighing against Monk's versatility, kinda feels like a toss-up as which one has a better shot at being in the NFL.
I thought balance was the theme -- interested to see if Elko saw it that way when we get to talk to him Tuesday.
On the O-line ... It's in the story that Monk has moved to center. This is kind of awkward to talk about without being able to discuss depth-chart things, but I'll put it like this: In the spring the staff really talked up the O-line, made it seem like that was the area they were "least" concerned about. Then they went out and added two transfers (Chance Lytle and Andre Harris) who look like they'll play a bunch and moved Monk to the one position he hadn't played in the last 3 years.
I don't think their O-line is bad, per se ... just maybe not as strong as they made it seem in the spring. You've probably seen me say this before, that Pro Football Focus is not the gospel, but PFF loves Graham Barton. So you've got that weighing against Monk's versatility, kinda feels like a toss-up as which one has a better shot at being in the NFL.
Story from today -- validation of Sunday being balanced, what Mike Elko, what needs to improve, plus news and notes from today's practice.
I think a combination of both ... and perhaps some meetings. Don't know exactly and maybe this staff does things differently, but I doubt it. I've joked with the Wake players in years past about calling it an "off day" and they've hit me with, "just because we don't have practice doesn't mean we're not still here."
As of this morning, 8/17- Duke is a 7pt favorite to beat Temple.... Gotta win that one to head into NW in good frame of mind.
Somewhat oddly, NW opens 8/27 (week from Saturday) vs Nebraska in Dublin, Ireland. The 'Huskers are a 12 pt fave to win. NW then has a week off before its home opener 9/10 vs Duke. They will have already been battle tested.
OFC
When I used to bet, the lines for the first week didn't come out so early. I would fly to Las Vegas for the first Saturday and bet with the line movement on games that moved a lot. Say Penn state over Toledo dropping from 13 points to 9. It worked 85% of the time
I remember betting on Holyfield over Tyson at 12 to 1 a week before the fight. The line went down to 9:1 during the week and an hour before the fight it dropped to 2:1. I knew that the fix was in or Tyson was hurt and bet more Holyfield
I remember betting on Holyfield over Tyson at 12 to 1 a week before the fight. The line went down to 9:1 during the week and an hour before the fight it dropped to 2:1. I knew that the fix was in or Tyson was hurt and bet more Holyfield
so a good day for duke football
terry simmons DT to 4 stars on rivals
DL anthony davis named to 247 sports true frosh all-american team
if conors thoughts that semaj turner DE and marquise collins RB might get the 4 star bump also then our recruiting class is looking really strong. also dont forget grayson loftis QB is already rated 4 stars on espn.
also my ''under the radar guy to jump'' moussa kane db. just think this kid is strong with the force
terry simmons DT to 4 stars on rivals
DL anthony davis named to 247 sports true frosh all-american team
if conors thoughts that semaj turner DE and marquise collins RB might get the 4 star bump also then our recruiting class is looking really strong. also dont forget grayson loftis QB is already rated 4 stars on espn.
also my ''under the radar guy to jump'' moussa kane db. just think this kid is strong with the force
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Semaj Turner (Reagan HS) and Que'Sean Brown (East Forsyth) are both close to where I live, hope to get out and see them at some point this season.
Here's a little video of Turner from last night:
Here's a little video of Turner from last night:
Story from today on inconsistency from receivers, plus news and notes.
Look at christophero trolling on the football board with posts from 5 years ago🙂🤠😃
Well Conor this may be your best wrap today!!!! All of us appreciate it. Unfortunately we're only 2 weeks from game 1 and it sounds like the offense (at least the passing game) is execution wise much the same old, same old.
Daniel Jones was the LAST impact Duke qb in '18. Daniel was a GOOD player, not what I would call GREAT, but certainly very capable. Most of the time he benefitted from good OL play, and he was blessed with the ability to throw the ball downfield. Duke did not live and die on a steady diet of east- west passes. Receivers were decent, and they were GENERALLY ABLE TO get separation from opposing DB's.
Since DJ graduated, '19- '21 have been spotty at best in qb play. Quinton Harris was probably our best QB of these last three seasons. However, Cutcliffe's teams began playing not to lose with ultra conservative offense, particularly in the 2nd half of the '19 season. Passes went more to the backfield than downfield. Receivers could not get separation downfield, passes missed targets, and the Chase Brice at qb '20 season was a disaster. '21 was more of same, Duke only could find some success in a running game led by Mateo Grant, but passing was primarily along the line of scrimmage.
One of the great things about the administration forcing out Cut was the promise of change. I love the energy generated by Mike Elko, but @ConorONeill I
am concerned a downfield, vertical passing game may still be sorely lacking. Elko is still victimized largely by playing with Cut's recruits. The inconsistency I am reading of in Conor's EXCELLENT articles, tells me it's going to be rough sledding on offense a while, at least until Elko can get his own kids on the field. Maybe things get better the next 2 weeks in practice and a real passing attack emerges? Why do I feel Henry Belin may emerge about as the starting qb at some point, and possibly blossom???
OFC
Today's story from media day, just a bit of a preview for tomorrow.
Hart, thank you for the kind words!
As far as your points to Elko and the staff needing to get their own guys in for the program to get rolling ... I'll say the same thing here that I've said to a few others: If the staff really liked the roster they inherited, they wouldn't have 26 commits lined up.
And it feels like that really applies to WRs -- I've lost track a bit with positions we've got listed vs. positions they're committed as, but I think it's 5 or 6 commits -- maybe @surfdevil can confirm?
I think they've got a few playmakers who could emerge and be decent on the outside past this year. Sahmir Hagans definitely feels like a building block. One of the issues, at least IMO, is that Darrell Harding Jr. (6-4) and Eli Pancol (6-3) are the only ones with legit size. And Harding doesn't use his size as well as he should.
It's tough to stretch the field when you're asking receivers 6-foot and under to make contested catches.
Hart, thank you for the kind words!
As far as your points to Elko and the staff needing to get their own guys in for the program to get rolling ... I'll say the same thing here that I've said to a few others: If the staff really liked the roster they inherited, they wouldn't have 26 commits lined up.
And it feels like that really applies to WRs -- I've lost track a bit with positions we've got listed vs. positions they're committed as, but I think it's 5 or 6 commits -- maybe @surfdevil can confirm?
I think they've got a few playmakers who could emerge and be decent on the outside past this year. Sahmir Hagans definitely feels like a building block. One of the issues, at least IMO, is that Darrell Harding Jr. (6-4) and Eli Pancol (6-3) are the only ones with legit size. And Harding doesn't use his size as well as he should.
It's tough to stretch the field when you're asking receivers 6-foot and under to make contested catches.
so at the moment our verballed kids
TE
vance bolyard
vincent drolet
WR
que'sean brown wr 5'8'' 160 lbs
quran boyd wr 5'10'' 185 lbs
apollos cook wr 6'2'' 190 lbs
spencer jones wr 6'3'' 190 lbs
so we are at 4ea wr and 2ea te
this is why the paul davis decommit hurt. 6'1'' wr with talent
wr on team right now
jaden watkins 6' 195
mehki wall 5'9'' 167
jontavis robertson 5'11'' 193
sahmir hagans 5'10'' 195
jalon calhoun 5'11'' 189
eli pancol 6'3'' 205
darrell harding 6'4'' 222
malik bowen-sims 6'2'' 201
luca diamont 6'2'' 189
AND jordan moore 6' 195 dont forget every other school wanted him at wr and the reason we got him was because we offered him a chance at qb
to conors point, 6ea kids under 6' and 2ea at 6'. thats 8 kids that are ''slot wr'' sized.
TE
vance bolyard
vincent drolet
WR
que'sean brown wr 5'8'' 160 lbs
quran boyd wr 5'10'' 185 lbs
apollos cook wr 6'2'' 190 lbs
spencer jones wr 6'3'' 190 lbs
so we are at 4ea wr and 2ea te
this is why the paul davis decommit hurt. 6'1'' wr with talent
wr on team right now
jaden watkins 6' 195
mehki wall 5'9'' 167
jontavis robertson 5'11'' 193
sahmir hagans 5'10'' 195
jalon calhoun 5'11'' 189
eli pancol 6'3'' 205
darrell harding 6'4'' 222
malik bowen-sims 6'2'' 201
luca diamont 6'2'' 189
AND jordan moore 6' 195 dont forget every other school wanted him at wr and the reason we got him was because we offered him a chance at qb
to conors point, 6ea kids under 6' and 2ea at 6'. thats 8 kids that are ''slot wr'' sized.
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just looked at wake forest
11 receivers on roster now
2 ea under 6', 2ea at 6', 7ea 6'1'' or taller
3 have verballed
1 ea under 6' and 2 ea 6'1'' or over
so to sum up, 5ea 6' or under and 9 ea 6'1'' or over
this seems like a more realistic break down of what modern receivers corps should look like
11 receivers on roster now
2 ea under 6', 2ea at 6', 7ea 6'1'' or taller
3 have verballed
1 ea under 6' and 2 ea 6'1'' or over
so to sum up, 5ea 6' or under and 9 ea 6'1'' or over
this seems like a more realistic break down of what modern receivers corps should look like
Tall receivers are nice, but not a necessity. The first Duke WRs to come to mind are Jamison Crowder and Clarkston Hines, both under six feet
Unless they are offered to play football and basketball, the tall and talented receivers are probably not going to Duke. They are noticed by Ohio State and LSU too early in the process
Unless they are offered to play football and basketball, the tall and talented receivers are probably not going to Duke. They are noticed by Ohio State and LSU too early in the process
Has anyone seen Jonathan Paylor (Jr.) from Burlington Cummings play? Saw him Friday against Burlington Williams. Cummings won the game 22-20 in a game of big plays by both teams. Paylor had big play after big play. Ran back a kick off return for winning score. He also made a first down on a high snap punt. He was the punter and just took off down the field. I don't know what his stats were but he caught passes for gains and several runs for nice yardage when it was really needed. He was the difference in the game and if he had not played Cummings would have lost. He never left the field except for half time the end of the game. Best player I've seen in years come out of the Burlington/Alamance area. I know he has several offers from big time programs such as Alabama, Georgia, Clemson and NCSU. Duke and cheater u have offers also. Duke has no chance and it would be devastating if he went to cheater u but we all know how charming the snake oil salesman mack brown can be. Those of you who may some inside info have any idea where he might end up? This kid is not a thug. He is a stud though. Ball of muscle. People in the area I talk to say he has high character and makes top grades. Speed he won the 100, 200 and 400 meter dash in the NC Class 3 state track meet in 2022. OFC
My friend you are so welcome for the "kind words." You have given our site a new dimension with your keen insights Conor. We are so fortunate to have your coverage of Duke football!(Wake fans are fortunate as well!!) OFC
actually think you are making the point. you bring up the only two receivers that can be named and both were slot receivers. hines graduated 32 years ago in 1990 and played one year for the bills. crowder has had more on field recognition in the nfl than hines but you are still talking about a guy who left in 2015, 7 years ago. we are not exactly hitting out of the park with wr. no one is thinking/saying that you dont use small receivers. it is just on the outside height helps is all. 4 to 6 on the roster under 6' for slot/kick returns are plenty.
How long do you guys think it may take Coach Elko to start things in the other direction? I'll tell you guys I really loved Coach Cut but do understand fully it was time to move on. He resurrected Duke football to respectability for a while and beat the cheaters a few times but like myself times have passed us both by. I'm not the same poster I was 16 years I am now. New Duke posters who love Duke athletics just as much as I have their own way of expressing themselves and I need to adapt to them not they needing to adapt my ways. I am a Yankee fan and am a facbook group called Yankee's Daily. You think there's disagreement and confrentstion here you need to get a load of that group. I've been put in my place many times there. Been told I have horrible post and called an idiot by my own fellow fan base mostly because I am old school and sometimes I state I love old school baseball. Well the older I get the more I get off topic and it's happened here. I've become Duke's version of deepsouther ( is that correct?) . Back to the point. I hope that we as a football fan base is patient with our new coach. From what I can tell so far we may have hit the jack pot. I saw on rivals that we have the #24th or #25th recruiting class for '23 and that's better than cheater u,. Although I don't post here anywhere near as close as I once did I do check it daily and every now and then will post if I feel it's something worth posting. So how long will it take before we beat the cheaters again or make ourselves bowl worthy not eligible but bowl worthy? Three years maybe. Just remember that we all stand on common ground as Duke fans. OFC
Here's the text of the second tweet, to save you a click to Twitter:
(2/2):
- Eli Pancol 50-some-yd TD catch from Riley Leonard early
- Jaquez Moore 60-some-yd TD run early
- Dorian Mausi 3rd-down sack
- Busy (re: good) day for Sahmir Hagans
- Nicky Dalmolin 22-yd TD catch from Leonard in OT situation
- Darius Joiner playmaker shoutout (again)
Post more please. You are incredibly good at making your intended point. I watched the entire Yankees game today on mlb network. They're abysmal right now except for judge and the pitching. Luckily, the Toronto shortstop handed the game to the Yankees
It will take three years for Duke football to beat good teams but I think that they will be fun to watch . A lot depends on the QB.
surfdevil. You know much more than I about football and infinitely more about Duke football . I probably put too much faith in the book MONEYBALL. I know Wake gets some big receivers, but it just seems much easier to find good small receivers and design an offense that is not dependent on big receivers.
The first team I thought of was the Rams Greatest Show on Turf. I don't recall any tall receivers on that team. Isaac Bruce, Torry Holt, Ricky Proehl, Az Zahir Hakim were all 5'9" to 6'0" and Marshall Faulk out of the backfield was 5'10"
Thank you! I I only know Paylor because of your post months ago and the associated video. My friend is a high school official and also said that he is very quick. All I know about Cummings is that they used to put up big numbers with a run and shoot type offense. It seems like they sent a lot of players to colleges more because of the system than extreme athletic ability
the greatest show on turf was great. it was also 22-24 years ago. bruce, holt and proehl are all listed at 6' even. hakim was 5'10'' and their te williams was 6'5''. i grew up and still am a devout washington redskin fan. i still remember the ''smurfs'' of the early 80's. except for art monk (6'3'') they were all under 5'10''. of course this is 40 years ago. the thing that both teams had was an exceptional qb at the helm. kurt warner and joe theisman were on top of their game when these teams were kicking butt. i get and agree with you that it can be done but just think when you get down towards the goal line height helps. fades to 6'3'' are easier than fades to 5'9''. also as conor said, taller can really help on 50/50 balls that the qb throws. i think it is easier to get a little taller at wr than for us to sign an all-acc qb. of course i am a greedy guy and i want BOTH
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We're on the same page. Good big beats good little. I hope you sign the next Randy Moss and Justin Jefferson. I was a Clayton and Duper fan because I loved Marino and they were small .
What can I say, except we've been starved for this type coverage and greatly appreciate it Conor! Wow, it's going to be interesting to see that depth chart, especially at the skill positions!
Conor let me lob a hypothetical your way sir. It appears overall, Riley is checking enough boxes to clearly be our starting qb. At this point do you see him taking the majority of reps in game one, OR a chance Moore/Belin get some plays under center as well? OFC
Sky, like ged said- please don't stop posting. One of the reasons I began posting here was your heavy involvement. Now I almost feel like "Senior Old Fart" without you posting as frequently! Lol!!
To your question about a timetable for Elko to turn things around, I would concur with ged. About three yrs.
Also I think our outstanding beat writer @ConorONeill gave a great answer to the Elko turnaround dilemma. Duke leads the NATION with 20 plus '23 recruits. That shows you quite a bit about the very underdeveloped group Elko & co. inherited in Durham. Give him time,WE HAVE THE RIGHT GUY!! OFC
I hope he is the right guy. Like what's going on so far for sure. We must be patient.
OFC
After going through fall camp not being able to report on depth chart-type news (other than Jordan Moore at receiver), I've been told it won't be a problem to have a projected depth chart published this week. Aiming at Wednesday for that.
So yeah ... the writing is on the wall at QB. I really like Belin as an athlete and he's got a ridiculously strong arm but if he's put any game with a chance to win, it's going to be a wild ride. He can hit some advanced throws but he also struggles with some easy ones.
Going back to the discussion on the receivers, the offense is going to feature a bevy of short, quick-hitting passes because ... well, one of the reasons is that's what the staff inherited to work with. So you're probably going to cringe a bit at a second-and-8 screen because that's what you've seen for the past several years, but it's just what the staff has to do right now. I don't think it'll look the same in, say, 3-4 years. (maybe sooner)
And if you have a QB who can't hit those simple throws with precision -- you're handcuffing yourself.
I've said before, I'll try not to bring too much Wake Forest discussion into here. They're separate programs and as I wrote when Elko was hired, he's not trying to recreate Wake's model at Duke. But Wake has done an outstanding job of evaluating and signing under-the-radar QBs (John Wolford, Jamie Newman and Sam Hartman all had offer sheets that don't jump off the page) and part of that is this quote from their OC, Warren Ruggiero:
“A lot of kids can throw a ball, they can go out there at the Elite 11 and throw a pretty ball and all of those things. But can a kid make fast decisions and make plays when things aren’t exactly how they should be? That’s something that’s, you know, it’s in them. It’s God-given and all you can do is screw them up, to be honest with you, as a coach.”
Duke knows Belin fits the first part of that; they're working with him on the second part.
Conor, Thanks. I really hope it does not teke us 1 year, let alone 3 to 4 years, to develop a more well rounded passing attack. I will be an optimist on this one and trust that our QB's and receivers will be competitive. Hope springs eternal. OFC
You can get to a respectable level the day you find a great QB. Ideally, you use the Wake method of developing hidden gems. Duke has a national name and I think can land an obvious gem in the transfer portal from a program such as Alabama or Ohio State
Ged, I think you simplify a little too much, maybe because at your school it's easier to get a bunch of decent linemen in front of the QB. But no QB will have a chance without a line. In Cut's best years, he got by with an O line that could pass block and with creative play calling the average QB's did well. In later years, the line got worse, the play calling became vanilla, and the mediocrity of the QBs became more obvious.
Just my opinion but you gotta have at least a decent line to allow the quarterback to have time to pass or move around.
Just my opinion but you gotta have at least a decent line to allow the quarterback to have time to pass or move around.
