Most Frustrating Season

[youngman42]

You expect the season with freshmen to be a struggle at times. But, you also expect them to improve over the course of the season and there really wasn't any clear improvement (as you saw with 2015).

I just think K does not coach - and perhaps can't coach - like he has in the past.

Their offensive sets were no more sophisticated in the last game than the first game.

K didn't trust the non freshmen so ... why should the freshmen?

Unneeded turnovers and bad shots littered every single game.

Their FT shooting remained poor throughout the year. Same players. Same bricks.

The OAD era is frustrating. But, equally as frustrating is the lack of development of Bolden, DeLaurier, White, O'Connell and Goldwire.

DeLaurier was rated in the 40's-50's.

Bolden was in the top 20.

Neither of those guys have become what they could have been. Javin played much better this last game but he still makes 'rookie' type mistakes. And, he is just not a shooter.

They could surprise, but with 3 players coming in we have no real supporting cast unless something dramatic happens over the summer.

Really expected better play come tourney time. It never happened. They were better in November.

 

[WI#1Dukie22]

So much wrong here....

How can you say Jav hasn’t improved???

 

[HeLooks2MuchLikeDave]

2017 was way more frustrating.

 

[mo.st.dukie]

I enjoyed it. 32 wins, an ACC tournament title, 2 All Americans and a NPOY, lots of big games in big atmospheres and we went toe to toe with a great team in the Elite Eight If you can't find some enjoyment out of that you should find a different hobby that brings you more joy, life is too short.

 

[RanDEVILman]

I was gonna chime in, but you guys said it all

 

[Mpm277]

Fire K!

 

[PixelDevil]

Fire K!

I'm ready to step in

 

[CRAZIE4LIFE]

Injuries arent the whole reason, but they were huge albatross for this team this year. A full year healthy makes a difference

 

[FearTheBeard]

I'm ready to step in

Whoa, buddy. Get in line.

 

[OldasdirtDevil]

I enjoyed it. 32 wins, an ACC tournament title, 2 All Americans and a NPOY, lots of big games in big atmospheres and we went toe to toe with a great team in the Elite Eight If you can't find some enjoyment out of that you should find a different hobby that brings you more joy, life is too short.

Exactly, Mo.st.dukie. You don't always get what you want in this life. As a Duke fan I feel blessed with the incredible joy this program has given me over the years.

OFC

 

[denverexpat]

I was going to post a new thread on the "positionless" offense we ran....I think it hurts in close end game situations because it creates a slow 1 on 1 forced shot most of the time. A good executed set would allow each player to know the play and their role - with options if one is taken away. All year we were not a fluid offensive team, and looked best when Zion got it inside...that identity was never set so we end with 3 straight possessions with RJ shooting...more organization may have got us better shots...oh well, hopefully next year we develop more identity on both ends

 

[Duke1783]

The last 2 yrs were so much more frustrating. This team was close and they played defense

 

[BeerPoisoning]

We run a 5 out or 4-1 motion offense. It’s constantly different and changing. I don’t know how you add sophistication to it. The players themselves did choose to ISO a little too often though rather than penetrate+pass.

Javin had a great season, wtf?

FT% isn’t something that magically changes. Some players do find new routines or a fix, but usually that’s a stat that doesn’t fluctuate much. For example, LeBron James has been a 67-76% FT shooter throughout his NBA career. Never lower or higher, up and down each season.

Bolden never lived up to expectation. Zion exceeded expectation. This is normal. High school / AAU scouting reports don’t always properly translate to college. Bolden has also been injury plagued. Also, Nate James coaches the big men specifically. He has a great track record, too. Coach K has minimal impact in this regard.

 

[Nycdoc01]

You make some valid points. I do think K doesn’t do a great job of coaching, X’s and O’s wise. He’s been a great coach no doubt. Maybe the best college coach in history. But in any profession your time at the top ends whether you’re a doctor, lawyer, etc...Luckily the recruiting has been amazing.

However Javin and Bolden have both improved. JD was our 2nd best player tonight IMO.

The bigger gripe I have is the lack of development of any sort of bench. We played 6 guys today basically. That’s ridiculous. “We have no depth” line is tiring. Maybe play these guys all year so they can develop by the end of the year and be trusted. That’s been an ongoing issue for years with K.

 

[HeLooks2MuchLikeDave]

You make some valid points. I do think K doesn’t do a great job of coaching, X’s and O’s wise. He’s been a great coach no doubt. Maybe the best college coach in history. But in any profession your time at the top ends whether you’re a doctor, lawyer, etc...Luckily the recruiting has been amazing.

However Javin and Bolden have both improved. JD was our 2nd best player tonight IMO.

The bigger gripe I have is the lack of development of any sort of bench. We played 6 guys today basically. That’s ridiculous. “We have no depth” line is tiring. Maybe play these guys all year so they can develop by the end of the year and be trusted. That’s been an ongoing issue for years with K.

Go over to THR and read all the UNC fans complaining about Roy using his bench in big games

 

[pisgah101]

Whoa, buddy. Get in line.

@PixelDevil its FTB first but we’re his assistants so we be alright

 

[wcu1113]

The fact that Duke couldn’t win the national championship this season with this roster is extremely discouraging for the future.

No excuses this year.

 

[Alaskan_Assassin_21]

Coach K shortened the bench late to ensure a #1 seed

UCF and Vtech are cute but once we finally faced an established opponent in the Tourney....we lost.

So in hindsight Coach K's gamble probably paid off

 

[timmuh1515]

I love Duke but agree with some frustrations. Even those quick with a snide comment have theirs as well.

The OADs give Duke a chance to be special every year and give us some amazing names to root for in the NBA.

At the same time, there is no question it impacts those staying who may never get their chance to shine. Many Duke greats over the years didn’t start great but instead we’re forced to improve based on need. That isn’t to say Duke shouldn’t take the best talent...It’s just the result of new stars every season.

My only real question was Goldwire tonight...but I thought this year more then recent memories...K really gave different players stretches to perform over the season.

 

[BlueDevilWildcat]

Loved this season up to the 1st UNC game. After that we seemed to stagnate on both sides of the court, exacerbated by injuries of course.

What has frustrated me the past 4 years is the absolute lack of a quality bench. Hard to point the finger at anything other than the staff for that. Whether it's because the guys don't get enough run during the blow outs, aren't coached up during the season, or just aren't any good, when you get your pick of recruits, your bench shouldn't consistently be such a liability.

I thought K's press conference was more subdued than previous years' - I think he loved this group more than most and is shocked that we're going home early.

 

[Nycdoc01]

It’s mind boggling when I hear K say annually in March that “we aren’t deep.” That’s squarely on the shoulders of K. It’s bs.

Develop players during the season so they can contribute in the post season. How do all these other teams across the country have guys that can come off the bench and play while we at mighty Duke have supposed inept bench players year after year???

Loved this season up to the 1st UNC game. After that we seemed to stagnate on both sides of the court, exacerbated by injuries of course.

What has frustrated me the past 4 years is the absolute lack of a quality bench. Hard to point the finger at anything other than the staff for that. Whether it's because the guys don't get enough run during the blow outs, aren't coached up during the season, or just aren't any good, when you get your pick of recruits, your bench shouldn't consistently be such a liability.

I thought K's press conference was more subdued than previous years' - I think he loved this group more than most and is shocked that we're going home early.

 

[denverexpat]

Frustration this year has been the inconsistency. Tre gives us one amazing game then a game like today with 4pts, AOC goes off at Cuse and then barely makes the line up again, Goldwire changes a couple of games but then disappears onto the bench. Jack...enough sad. I wont mention Cam because he was probably the most inconsistent player we had. Frustration is the fact that all these great pieces were there to be molded into a formidable team...yet it never materialized. Whether that was the injuries or the coaching decisions we will never know. But this team never got into any rhythm on either end of the floor

 

[youngman42]

So much wrong here....

How can you say Jav hasn’t improved???

LOL! Did I say he hasn't improved? No. I said there was a lack of development.

Look at the facts:

DeLaurier: #39 recruit on Rivals / #44 on ESPN.

In his 3rd year, he averaged 16 mpg and 3.7 Pts, 4.2 Rebs a game.

Still can't shoot. He scores from 2 feet out - and even then misses a number of layups. And he will still struggle mentally at times.

Bolden: #11 Rivals; #16 ESPN.

3rd year, still has no clue what he's doing most of the time. Plays super soft. No lower post game.

O'Connell still has time but he regressed this year from last.

Anytime a player who is not one and done has a bad stretch they are benched.

This game, we're getting killed at times by Winston and he never plays Goldwire - who has had some great stretches defensively.

But the most frustrating was seeing freshmen make the same mental mistakes, bad decisions, forcing shots, not developing the 3 or taking sound shots with good form. They really played with very little if any offensive discipline.

 

[bullcity gamer]

Yeah Duke lost, its life, things do not always go our way and only one team gets to cut the nets down in April. I am proud of this team, they always showed grit and fight. I wish nothing but the best for Williamson, Barett, and Reddish at the next level. Anyone who says the kids do not care or did not give it their all are clueless. It’s a game guys, it’s not life or death. Get your priorities straight.

 

[crazyduke3]

Go back and watch the Jabari season. Where we squeaked by barely a nothing Liberty team. Our defense was exceptionally bad that year and I mean it was awful. That was frustrating.

This year wasn’t too bad, we won the ACCT.

 

[BM16]

This was one of the most frustrating and unpleasant season's of Duke basketball I have ever watched. It has nothing to do with Zion being a highlight reel either. This was not a smart basketball team and they never corrected their mistakes throughout the season, and that falls squarely on coaching. The one and done makes Coach K not have to coach has intensely as he would normally otherwise have to. You don't have to develop guys who have first round NBA prospect written on them. Coach K said he still coaches because he still has the fire to win, but does he have the fire to develop? Cleary he does not.

 

[BM16]

Go back and watch the Jabari season. Where we squeaked by barely a nothing Liberty team. Our defense was exceptionally bad that year and I mean it was awful. That was frustrating.

This year wasn’t too bad, we won the ACCT.

That's not good enough with the talent that was on this team. I could honestly look back and care less they won the ACCT.

 

[tclark6]

Stop it... Bolden has improved but please remember he has battled injuries his entire career...Javin has gotten better as well and did what we needed yesterday. these kids are staying in a system that is different from years past..with one and dones coming in every year they will never be the first, second or third options.. they are top rated kids that learn to be role players...Until the current college basketball landscape changes, it is what it is.

 

[BeerPoisoning]

This was one of the most frustrating and unpleasant season's of Duke basketball I have ever watched. It has nothing to do with Zion being a highlight reel either. This was not a smart basketball team and they never corrected their mistakes throughout the season, and that falls squarely on coaching. The one and done makes Coach K not have to coach has intensely as he would normally otherwise have to. You don't have to develop guys who have first round NBA prospect written on them. Coach K said he still coaches because he still has the fire to win, but does he have the fire to develop? Cleary he does not.

Tre has said that K had him practicing his shot all year long, asking him to hold his release and poured confidence into him. Reddish is always the first in and last out of the gym spending extra time shooting. Coaches can point something out / fix in terms of a bad shooting form and speak positively to install confidence but they can’t magically make a player shoot better.

I can’t imagine what you want him to pull into Zion’s development. It’s worth noting that Zion’s biggest listed weakness coming out of high school was shooting. He shot 34% behind the arc, I think that’s pretty fantastic for a guy who couldn’t shoot.

My only complaint is in the coaching department is RJ having a green light for rushed 3PT shots.

 

[BM16]

Tre has said that K had him practicing his shot all year long, asking him to hold his release and poured confidence into him. Reddish is always the first in and last out of the gym spending extra time shooting. Coaches can point something out / fix in terms of a bad shooting form and speak positively to install confidence but they can’t magically make a player shoot better.

I can’t imagine what you want him to pull into Zion’s development. It’s worth noting that Zion’s biggest listed weakness coming out of high school was shooting. He shot 34% behind the arc, I think that’s pretty fantastic for a guy who couldn’t shoot.

My only complaint is in the coaching department is RJ having a green light for rushed 3PT shots.

I had no problem with much of what Zion did. This team lacked intangibles that plagued them all season long.

 

[dukiejay]

This was one of the most fun season's I've had watching Duke basketball. Yesterday didn't suddenly change that.

 

[DukeRulesBasketball]

Go back and watch the Jabari season. Where we squeaked by barely a nothing Liberty team. Our defense was exceptionally bad that year and I mean it was awful. That was frustrating.

This year wasn’t too bad, we won the ACCT.

True! At least we got some hardware out of the deal. Lol

 

[Mpm277]

Part of the frustration I think many are experiencing is that Duke was way overhyped by the media. There was talk that we may go undefeated before the season began. Then that absolute beat down of UK really solidified those expectations and add fuel to that hype.

But the team didn't live up to it (how could they?). Zion did. RJ probably did. Cam absolutely didn't. Tre probably didn't. The team as a whole certainly didn't. The reality of this team is, imo, we had one great player, one really good player, two average players with moments of being really good, and everyone else below average.

 

[DukefanKY]

Probably not really quite this simple, but what always stood out to me is that we just simply were not good at shooting the ball. Zion and RJ could penetrate at will, but we had nobody who could consistently shoot the ball, and I think you need at least a couple guys who can.

 

[youngman42]

Tre has said that K had him practicing his shot all year long, asking him to hold his release and poured confidence into him. Reddish is always the first in and last out of the gym spending extra time shooting. Coaches can point something out / fix in terms of a bad shooting form and speak positively to install confidence but they can’t magically make a player shoot better.

I can’t imagine what you want him to pull into Zion’s development. It’s worth noting that Zion’s biggest listed weakness coming out of high school was shooting. He shot 34% behind the arc, I think that’s pretty fantastic for a guy who couldn’t shoot.

My only complaint is in the coaching department is RJ having a green light for rushed 3PT shots.

You are correct on this. I don't know how much those guys worked on their shot. I'm not in the gym (but I'm not sure anyone on here is).

But, the larger problem was more in game decisions. I'll say this until the day I die, b/c statistic after statistic show its true:

Dribble and shoot 3s are not nearly as high % as catch and shoot 3s. And, when you are not a good 3 point shooting team you shouldn't force those. K should have drilled that into them from the Maui forward. "Don't force 3s off the dribble." Period. It's a bad play. Low %. Be smart. Play loose, shoot your shot, drive the ball, but don't think you are Kobe Bryant who can force bad shots b/c he makes a ton of them. Both Barrett and Reddish took poor shots from 3 all year. When they took them in the flow of the game and were open they generally did better.

 

[TigerRoar8]

I think people underestimate how hard it is to get a team of first year players to totally gel in one season. Look at the final 4. All those teams are veteran teams that have been through the ringer. That is what it usually is every year. When you are playing 18 year olds vs. 22 year olds, that is a massive difference even if the younger ones are super talented. Its not like the other teams do not have talent either. Improving jump shooting and free throw shooting usually does not happen during the season, especially when you are dealing with a collection of players that are playing together for the first time. That is something that happens across multiple offseasons. I was impressed with how K got the players to buy in to defense. In the past our defense has been terrible with so many freshman. Combine all this with playing in a single elimination tourney, it makes it even more difficult to win it all. It was a sucky ending that could have gone our way but did not. It happens, this was one of the most exciting years of watching Duke basketball that I have experienced.
Now here is to hoping we will sign a few 2-3 year guys to go along with some 1 and dones.

 

[Mpm277]

Probably not really quite this simple, but what always stood out to me is that we just simply were not good at shooting the ball. Zion and RJ could penetrate at will, but we had nobody who could consistently shoot the ball, and I think you need at least a couple guys who can.

Zion could penetrate at all. RJ couldn't once people learned he couldn't go right at all.

 

[Alaskan_Assassin_21]

Ultimately Zion is better than I expected but RJ not quite. Not gonna pile on the kid but his shot and defense are inconsistent. Such a high point total and yet rarely felt dominating.

Unfortunately I feel injuries kept this team from fully jelling on the court. Their great off the court relationship probably masked the reality. Except for RJ, every other player on the roster faced a significant injury or period of self doubt at some point in the season. So the maturing and growth occurred it just didn't seem to come together in the NCAA Tournament over 40 minutes.

This was Michigan States first close call in the Tourney. This was our 3rd. Tougher road or predictable team (attack)? Maybe the ACC wasn't as strong as we thought all along. Even then we had close calls versus teams such as Wake. Winning the ACC Tournament gave us alot of confidence but did we ever turn the corner as a team in the Tournament? Or were we essentially that same team that limped through the end of the regular season.

Very good season with 1 Trophy and likely POY award. Deep run in the NCAAT but not a very convincing performance as a whole in the 4 games.

 

[Quavarius]

Go over to THR and read all the UNC fans complaining about Roy using his bench in big games

Right!
Roy hasn’t made it past the Sweet 16 since 2017 and he plays 11 players. Duke has gone deeper than UNC in 2018 and 2019 replying on less players!

I said all of that to say:

Neither style is perfect but it seems to work best for the team that uses it!