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Time to bench Duval?

skysdad said:
Sometimes it seems when Duval makes a great play he keeps on trying to make them even when the situation to make another is not there. For example drive to the basket and score then turn right around and do the same thing except turn the ball over because the defense is ready. OFC
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He reminds me of that kid in gym class who played varsity basketball. While in gym class he would do all this crazy crap and look amazing. Then once you went to the game that night, you see hints of it but mostly just see all that gym stuff not work out for him in the actual game.
 
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Mac9192 said:
No it's "of course" like of course he's better, unless of course you're trying to make something out of nothing, which "of course" is what I would expect out of you.
In case you didn't know this, the thread that we are on here is an indicator that Duval's play as our starting point guard is debating whether he should be benched or not, of course you knew that already didn't you?
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I'm completely sincere, which you can't possibly say about your response to me.

We all love Duke. Our differences are in details, and when you say someone is "of course" better then go on to list all your complaints, you're dismissing the best explanation for why he is playing as much as he does.
 
tedmon23 said:
After hearing about the retweet of his dunk before leaving the locker room last night, it will be interesting to see if there is any repercussion from that. I am on board if he doesn't start/play the next game.
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I would love to see K shake up the starting line up a bit...Bolden deserves a start... Very interesting that Duval did that...a childhood friend who is a heels fan was at the game and posted pics..Grayson and Bags were gracious enough to actually take a pic with him but you could tell that Grayson had been crying in the locker room and Bags clearly wasn't happy but I thought it was nice for them to take th pic and to think Duval was retweeting his dunk...
 
Dattier said:
I'm completely sincere, which you can't possibly say about your response to me.

We all love Duke. Our differences are in details, and when you say someone is "of course" better then go on to list all your complaints, you're dismissing the best explanation for why he is playing as much as he does.
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If you were sincere, then I apologize. Whether someone agrees with Duval possibly being benched or not, it is perfectly understandable that a debate is made. I think he should come off the bench tomorrow, and in his place I would go with Goldwire.
 
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K isn't benching Duval. He knows the absolute best this team can be is with Duval in the line-up playing well, which we have seen at times. Having him sitting on the bench isn't going to achieve that end in any way. K is shooting for the ceiling I would think.

And by far, Grayson's play is much, much more concerning. He is the one senior in the line-up, and he is absolutely struggling right now.
 
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Mac9192 said:
If you were sincere, then I apologize. Whether someone agrees with Duval possibly being benched or not, it is perfectly understandable that a debate is made. I think he should come off the bench tomorrow, and in his place I would go with Goldwire.
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This isn't the first time. Apologies don't mean a whole lot when you keep doing the same thing. Stop assuming my intent and responding with condescension as a default every time I express disagreement and you won't have to apologize.

Duval has been playing inconsistently and he has seen less PT as a result. K has other means of exacting consequences for players than taking them out of the starting line-up. If that's what you would do, that's fine, but your disagreement should not prohibit you from accepting explanations of why others do it differently, and while you can continue to disagree, your respect for K should stop you from bringing the same thing up repeatedly.

Duval is the better player. It isn't hype. JG is a 3-star recruit. That's based on professional, impartial, expert opinion. It's not a caste system. It's great that he has contributed as much as he has this season, and we all hope that continues and increases. Again, it's fine to think he deserves more PT now, but if the case for it starts distorting facts, it's a case poorly made.
 
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Mac9192 said:
If you were sincere, then I apologize. Whether someone agrees with Duval possibly being benched or not, it is perfectly understandable that a debate is made. I think he should come off the bench tomorrow, and in his place I would go with Goldwire.
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For the season, Goldwire has the highest + / - per 40m on the team (small sample size, obviously). About 50% higher than Duval's. I don't know what the Duval fans are expecting at this point. He has always been inefficient. He's not going to become a good shooter or take care of the ball or make high-IQ basketball decisions all of a sudden.
  • Goldwire - 22.
  • Bagley - 20.
  • Carter - 20.
  • Allen - 19
  • Trent - 17
  • Duval - 15
I agree with you. At least have a PG who isn't a net negative to the other 4 guys. Haven't we learned by now that 3 stars can out-perform 5 stars under the right situations? I mean, if you can look at this team and think it has any chance of going deep in the tourney, I'll have some of what you're drinking. Let's switch it up - worse case we end up where we're headed by doing more of the same.
 
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Dattier said:
This isn't the first time. Apologies don't mean a whole lot when you keep doing the same thing. Stop assuming my intent and responding with condescension as a default every time I express disagreement and you won't have to apologize.

Duval has been playing inconsistently and he has seen less PT as a result. K has other means of exacting consequences for players than taking them out of the starting line-up. If that's what you would do, that's fine, but your disagreement should not prohibit you from accepting explanations of why others do it differently, and while you can continue to disagree, your respect for K should stop you from bringing the same thing up repeatedly.

Duval is the better player. It isn't hype. JG is a 3-star recruit. That's based on professional, impartial, expert opinion. It's not a caste system. It's great that he has contributed as much as he has this season, and we all hope that continues and increases. Again, it's fine to think he deserves more PT now, but if the case for it starts distorting facts, it's a case poorly made.
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We will see Datt, we will see. You're a special guy.
 
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HuffyJB said:
K isn't benching Duval. He knows the absolute best this team can be is with Duval in the line-up playing well, which we have seen at times. Having him sitting on the bench isn't going to achieve that end in any way. K is shooting for the ceiling I would think.

And by far, Grayson's play is much, much more concerning. He is the one senior in the line-up, and he is absolutely struggling right now.
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Yes I think everybody would agree that Duval playing well is our ceiling. But how do we get to that point? I’m not seeing much progress. I just don’t think that it is absurd to say that a benching of Duval could just maybe possibly do some good. I’m not hoping he gets benched and stays there. I’m hoping if he gets benched that he comes back stronger.
 
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Dattier said:
More condescension and dismissal from you. None of that from me.
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What's wrong Datt? K calls people special all the time, and I was just taking a phrase used by our great coach by complimenting you too. I would think you of all people would have recognized that.
 
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Tyus clearly spoiled y’all. You’re not going to get many like Tyus. Trevon is an attack first point guard. He’s not your run the offense type. He likes to put pressure on the defense and dish. We don’t run enough pick and rolls with him. Having him stand on the perimeter and pass it around does nothing. That doesn’t put pressure on the defense at all. Just look at the times Coach K said “he didn’t call plays and just let them play”. They are more comfortable and talent really shows
 
dukiejay said:
It’s all he has.
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Not true! He has hart and socal and qc and a couple others who rally to defend him all the time.

Yet he has the cluelessness to think you and I have some such conspiratorial agreement.
 
Dattier said:
Not true! He has hart and socal and qc and a couple others who rally to defend him all the time.

Yet he has the cluelessness to think you and I have some such conspiratorial agreement.
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No, no, no. Read very carefull little minion. You like to cherry pick and nit pick certain posters. You can't help it, you don't have the stones to challenge some on here, but you do get your rocks off challenging others. You're smart enough to know the pecking order on this board.
You are a loyal minion though, so go take your meds and lay down.
 
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I just want to go on record and say that I don’t think it would be crazy to trot out Goldwire and AOC instead of Gray and Tre. It might fail, but I think we may be more efficient overall until Gray and Tre get more consistent.
 
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DukeDenver said:
I just want to go on record and say that I don’t think it would be crazy to trot out Goldwire and AOC instead of Gray and Tre. It might fail, but I think we may be more efficient overall until Gray and Tre get more consistent.
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Yep it’s not crazy at all for Coach to send somebody to the bench at this point.
 
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It's so funny how much yall are panicking. If I didn't watch Duke and came on this board I would think Duke is trash and just getting blown out. We have lost 5 games. 4 were on the road against veteran teams that came down to the last minute. The other was against a veteran Virginia team that has damn near redshirt everyone on the squad to learn their system. We lost to them by 2. Yall need to calm down forreal. We have a young team that has hit a wall on the road. Have you ever thought that this is their first season in college and it's actually hard to win because you get everyone's best shot? Some of you are the worst
 
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GillJET said:
Yep it’s not crazy at all for Coach to send somebody to the bench at this point.
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I know coach has to think big picture. Duval might get pissed. Other top recruits might question playing for a guy that does such things. What would it do to team morale? What promises were made? What would it do to each guys’ draft stock?

Then you must ask, would winning more games trump all those potential negatives?

What happens if Goldwires sucks it up?

It’s a hard play. It would be easier if Duval and Grayson just started dropping dimes.
 
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DukeDenver said:
Tonight Duval was just a guard off the bench.
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Not for long. Once again if he’s not our point guard then we won’t win a thing. Grayson is not the answer at point guard. We saw how that worked out last year with him at the point. Hell he ended up getting benched
 
dachampishere2 said:
Not for long. Once again if he’s not our point guard then we won’t win a thing. Grayson is not the answer at point guard. We saw how that worked out last year with him at the point. Hell he ended up getting benched
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Wasn't Duval's +/- for the night -11? And he has the lowest season +/- of all of the starters. Do you not understand how that works? Duval subtracts points when he's on the court, whether he "looks the part" or not.

I apologize, don't mean to attack you, but it's just a waste of time to continue having this argument. Duval has never been an efficient player and he won't become one in the next few weeks. Sucks for him, seems like a good kid, but he's not a good college player right now.
 
Mac9192 said:
No, no, no. Read very carefull little minion. You like to cherry pick and nit pick certain posters. You can't help it, you don't have the stones to challenge some on here, but you do get your rocks off challenging others. You're smart enough to know the pecking order on this board.
You are a loyal minion though, so go take your meds and lay down.
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Hey, look who liked your post! You must feel so, so validated!
 
BlueDevilWildcat said:
Wasn't Duval's +/- for the night -11? And he has the lowest season +/- of all of the starters. Do you not understand how that works? Duval subtracts points when he's on the court, whether he "looks the part" or not.

I apologize, don't mean to attack you, but it's just a waste of time to continue having this argument. Duval has never been an efficient player and he won't become one in the next few weeks. Sucks for him, seems like a good kid, but he's not a good college player right now.
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You know Duval had the highest +/- against North Carolina at +9 right? I bet you still said he played bad though. Don't get too invested in plus/minus because somebody that doesn't do anything on the floor can have a high plus/minus just on the strength of his teammates making a few plays. Lebron has the worst plus/minus in the league since January 1st. I guess he needs to ride the bench a little more huh?

You know Duval is shooting at a better clip from the field than Grayson right? So the player people are calling to be benched averages more assists, shoots at a better percentage and is a better defender than the guy being called for to take his spot. Makes sense. Like I said once before if one should get benched than both should. Only think is Duval has actually been a driving force in us winning some games in conference play. Grayson has been piss poor and he's not a point guard. This is why he got benched last year at the point guard position
 
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dachampishere2 said:
You know Duval had the highest +/- against North Carolina at +9 right? I bet you still said he played bad though. Don't get too invested in plus/minus because somebody that doesn't do anything on the floor can have a high plus/minus just on the strength of his teammates making a few plays. Lebron has the worst plus/minus in the league since January 1st. I guess he needs to ride the bench a little more huh?

You know Duval is shooting at a better clip from the field than Grayson right? So the player people are calling to be benched averages more assists, shoots at a better percentage and is a better defender than the guy being called for to take his spot. Makes sense. Like I said once before if one should get benched than both should. Only think is Duval has actually been a driving force in us winning some games in conference play. Grayson has been piss poor and he's not a point guard. This is why he got benched last year at the point guard position
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You're one of the few who keeps pounding this drum. Did you hear what Ellis and Greenberg said before the game? I'll go ahead and tell you. That Grayson needs more shots, and if Duke is going to go anywhere, it will be because he starts hitting shots and his teammates look for him more. That's not me or any other poster saying that.
Let it go man, Duval's not a terrible player, just struggling a little bit in this offense. You're right, he will probably be a better nba player.
I hope he does play better, we could use his talent.
 
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Mac9192 said:
You're one of the few who keeps pounding this drum. Did you hear what Ellis and Greenberg said before the game? I'll go ahead and tell you. That Grayson needs more shots, and if Duke is going to go anywhere, it will be because he starts hitting shots and his teammates look for him more. That's not me or any other poster saying that.
Let it go man, Duval's not a terrible player, just struggling a little bit in this offense. You're right, he will probably be a better nba player.
If you need some of Datt's meds, he probably has extra.
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Give more shots to the guy who can't make them? That makes a lot of sense. I can't think of the last time he shot 40% in a game against an actual opponent. Yall keep bringing up Duval when Grayson has been worse. He look like he's scared to shoot PLUS he's not making anything. If you want to keep it real Bagley, Carter and Trent need to be the primary scorers. They're our best offensive players by far when it comes to getting buckets. It's obvious we need him to hit shots. We need him to be the best 4th option in the country
 
Mac9192 said:
You're one of the few who keeps pounding this drum. Did you hear what Ellis and Greenberg said before the game? I'll go ahead and tell you. That Grayson needs more shots, and if Duke is going to go anywhere, it will be because he starts hitting shots and his teammates look for him more. That's not me or any other poster saying that.
Let it go man, Duval's not a terrible player, just struggling a little bit in this offense. You're right, he will probably be a better nba player.
I hope he does play better, we could use his talent.
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I keep pounding the drum because yall keep magnifying one player's play but overlooking the play of another who's playing worse. Before the game, Seth and Ellis didn't say that. Grayson has spent many minutes at point guard this year. All of a sudden he's the answer at point guard. HAHAHAHAHA. He won't get more shots because Bagley will be back. We will continue being an inside-out team
 
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dachampishere2 said:
Give more shots to the guy who can't make them? That makes a lot of sense. I can't think of the last time he shot 40% in a game against an actual opponent. Yall keep bringing up Duval when Grayson has been worse. He look like he's scared to shoot PLUS he's not making anything. If you want to keep it real Bagley, Carter and Trent need to be the primary scorers. They're our best offensive players by far when it comes to getting buckets. It's obvious we need him to hit shots. We need him to be the best 4th option in the country
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You seem to be overlooking one big difference between Grayson and Tre. Grayson can get hot from 3. Change-the-entire-game hot from 3. Tre can not. It’s not everything, but it’s a big damn deal.
 
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GillJET said:
You seem to be overlooking one big difference between Grayson and Tre. Grayson can get hot from 3. Change-the-entire-game hot from 3. Tre can not. It’s not everything, but it’s a big damn deal.
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My point is neither one is playing good. So instead of singling out the FRESHMAN we need to hold the SENIOR more accountable and not give him a pass for his poor play. Remember he was supposed to be the NPOY and all that. I don't see him making All-ACC this year as of now. Trevon would get in on a team just by him leading the conference in assists. Grayson can get hot from 3 but he has only done it once in 25 games. We've seen Tre make big shots and take over some games we could've lost though. Can't think of the last time Grayson played good against a quality opponent outside of MSU
 
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