Soooo, we could have won. With all that young talent? See now we’re getting somewhere. This is good.
Wrong....you've gone south with we would have been "murdered."
OFC
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Soooo, we could have won. With all that young talent? See now we’re getting somewhere. This is good.
Show, this is what I said. I said we may need all four cause we have hardly any experience.No one has been disrespectful all day, that is until you got on here with your usual fire. Honestly, I'm not sure about our recruits this coming season. Yeah, I have always wanted no more than 2-3 one and done's. Hope it works out with all four. The difference between this season though and the last few are, and pay attention here big fella, is we have vewy vewy little experience on the roster, so maybe this elite talent coming in can offset that.
Good luck in your activities tonight sir.
Machart. That's a good one. Well played big fellaI’d loved to have gotten the chance Jwill, I’ll let the dead dog lie with Machart now. It’s all good.
Machart. That's a good one. Well played big fella
What's comical Hart is his feathers seem ruffled over you and me. Yet I could care less who he talks with or takes places. Cliques are all over this board, yet our little 2 man clique really chaps some (him).Sounds like a title for a nifty tv cop show!
OFC
Cliques are all over this board? Nah , honestly Mac, it’s alway just been “the board” here. We all like the team, it’s players and coaches. It’s actually been a pretty cool concept.
No I'm not mistaken. I've never thought or said you were an nba fan. You get really excited over our talent the last couple seasons. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong if someone doesn't quite share your enthusiasm either. That doesn't make one way or the other better.I think you may have mistaken me for an NBA FAN. Nope, don’t even pull for anyone. I always hope our kids do well though.
Hmmm....Patrick I enjoy your posts because they are well thought out. I would TOTALLY agree w/you about Bagley(assume thats your reference point). Unfortunately even the zone AT TIMES (Kansas game) could not camouflage his deficiencies on D. However I think Grayson was COVERING UP at times for Bagley and others, SPRINTING to get a hand in the face of wide open shooters!
That zone (2-3) often morphed into a 4-1 and the corners were MOST VULNERABLE per against the Jayhawks.We can also agree to disagree about the leadership issues. I simply feel had Grayson's shot fallen it would have afforded us a chance in the Final Four, because GA had EXPERIENCED a FINAL FOUR, and that would have worked to our advantage.
Thks buddy-
OFC
You said "murdered." Furthermore I didn't say we would have "won," I merely indicated some factors I felt were in OUR FAVOR heading on to the FF...I believe we would have brought more to the table at that point than Kansas. Never thought I would see you say we would have gotten "murdered." Disappointed....
OFC
did you forget about how horrible the 2006-2007 and 2013-2014 Duke teams were on defense? Greg Paulus was terrible on defense.......I disagree WRT Allen, but he was certainly better in the Zone rather than he M2M. But Allen was a disaster in the M2M. He was much better in Man this year relative to the last 2 years, so I think some people are misevaluating how truly horrific he was in the zone. For the previous 2 years, Allen was the second worst man defender to ever play big minutes at Duke. Luckily for him, he played with Luke, who was a slightly worse M2M defender. But those two were, by a huge, huge margin, the worst Man defenders ever to play in Duke's main rotation in the Coach K era.
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Allen was noticeably better in Man this year. But he was still awful. He was just much, much worse the last 2 years.
Vs our Zone, after a week to prepare for it, could have been ugly.
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90 title game vs UNLV ugly.
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If Duke had played better in the regular season, or the ACCT, we'd have been on the other side of the bracket.
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Nova would have murdered us if we'd been in the FF instead of KU. If we'd been their opponent in the title game...……………..
We'll never know for sure Patrick...Sure it could have been decisive, as you infer. I simply think perhaps not. K would have had a week to HOPEFULLY shore up the holes in the zone, and PERHAPS with Grayson willing us as captain and our senior leader WILLS US to a very competitive showing.
Thats's the thing- you have to go all the way back to the '90 title game to denote a FF game the Devils were truly embarrassed.How many times have we been back since '90? Eight if IIRC....5 Titles and 3 narrow losses: two to UConn, 1 to Arkansas. K's experience is pretty special during that span.
However I totally respect all your points sir, in breaking down our defensive strategy, etc. Ultimately it may have come down to what Mac alluded to earlier: Duke had the better TALENT, but NOVA would have won because they had the better TEAM.
Enjoy the good dialogue w/you- OFC
did you forget about how horrible the 2006-2007 and 2013-2014 Duke teams were on defense? Greg Paulus was terrible on defense.......
I feel like Paulus, Luke, and Grayson all have something in common, but I can’t figure out what that is?????
Wait..I got it, they are all guards that played for Duke.
Allen and Luke obviously were quality players on O, but they were horrific on D, and tended to give up nearly what they gave us. I'm not sure how their defensive failures can be glossed over or ignored.
Maybe Grayson gets a pass because of a stellar and really SAVE THE GAME effort vs Wisconsin in the '15 title game. He was tough on both ends of the court, and K said we were "dead in the water" until G ignited the 2nd half comeback.I will never forget him hounding Koenig, and diving for the ball as it was headed out of bounds near halfcourt.
OFC
.I always expect this fan base to be more nuanced and intelligent in its analysis, and it bothers me on a personal level when we fall into the hackneyed tropes of other, less intelligent, fan bases.
Absolutely. ON the balance, Allen did far more "good" than (largely theoretical) "bad."
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It just bothers me when a player, or person, or D-bag coworker, gets a lifetime pass on current/recent failures because of some past success.
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It doesn't diminish Allen's play in the national title game in 2015 to admit that he was an awful defender for the 2 years after that, and merely a bad defender last year.
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I always expect this fan base to be more nuanced and intelligent in its analysis, and it bothers me on a personal level when we fall into the hackneyed tropes of other, less intelligent, fan bases.
The outdated overplay man to man switching defense that K prefers to play is about 80 percent of the reason why we sucked on defense over the past decade. It is also the reason why guys like Tyler Thornton got playing time over Quinn Cook. Matt Jones started at the wing over Tatum who was a better wing defender due to his 6’11 reach. Both players were offensive liabilities and their communication on defense couldn’t make up for their offensive liabilities.
Tatum started all but the first couple games back. Matt Jones absolutely didn’t start over Tatum.The outdated overplay man to man switching defense that K prefers to play is about 80 percent of the reason why we sucked on defense over the past decade. It is also the reason why guys like Tyler Thornton got playing time over Quinn Cook. Matt Jones started at the wing over Tatum who was a better wing defender due to his 6’11 reach. Both players were offensive liabilities and their communication on defense couldn’t make up for their offensive liabilities.
The outdated overplay man to man switching defense that K prefers to play is about 80 percent of the reason why we sucked on defense over the past decade. It is also the reason why guys like Tyler Thornton got playing time over Quinn Cook. Matt Jones started at the wing over Tatum who was a better wing defender due to his 6’11 reach. Both players were offensive liabilities and their communication on defense couldn’t make up for their offensive liabilities.
How can you and Tross claim to be Duke fans and say that Matt Jones started over Tatum? What? Did you two even watch that team, or even watch Duke play period? Jones never started over Tatum. How can someone claim, or try talking Duke basketball on a message board, and say something so ridiculous and false? That's as bad as saying Laettner was the best player on the 95 team, or Battier and Scheyer were a great duo.1 billion percent correct.
How can you and Tross claim to be Duke fans and say that Matt Jones started over Tatum? What? Did you two even watch that team, or even watch Duke play period? Jones never started over Tatum. How can someone claim, or try talking Duke basketball on a message board, and say something so ridiculous and false? That's as bad as saying Laettner was the best player on the 95 team, or Battier and Scheyer were a great duo.
Oh and Jack Nicklaus is going to win the US Open this week.
Tatum started all but the first couple games back. Matt Jones absolutely didn’t start over Tatum.
I understand some of what you're saying, but you're taking it a little too far.Not the Matt Jones bit, but the TT playing over QC bit. K loved guys who knew what they were supposed to do in the overplay even if they couldn't actually make plays on D, and would give those guys PT at the expense of guys that didn't understand the overall concept, but that could otherwise make more winning plays.
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TT over Cook was not a sound strategic decision. We can go back over the last decade and point to a few instances where K made some poor personnel decisions over the course of a season. Sticking with the overplay, when we didn't have the personnel, and then trying to shoehorn players into that, drove most of those decisions.