OT: On this Valentine's Day there is tragedy and sadness.
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It is a good question/observation you raised. (A similar observation is about the bootlegging and prohibition.)
Now why do other developed countries like Japan, Sweden not have our gun problems? Is it really because the "genie already out" in America?
My gut feeling is that this is also tied to the problems in US criminal justice system.
So Shey, my take on your point is that "you raised a good point that the gun issue may need to be addressed at the same time with criminal justice system reform."
I understand everyone's passion around both sides of this. I wish we lived in a world where this was a non issue, unfortunately, I don't have enough confidence in the human race, government, or laws to take that chance.
Southern and proud there yankee dude
Jesus. Just saw that a geography teacher, a young dude, was shot trying to protect his kids.
Just mindblowing. Literally sitting in my classroom right now. Also watched a video of the police coming in and clearing a classroom. I've sat in lockdown every month for years now... ****, I hope I never have to do it for real
Just terrifying and horrible. It is so, so, SO easy to imagine that happening in my life.
Just mindblowing. Literally sitting in my classroom right now. Also watched a video of the police coming in and clearing a classroom. I've sat in lockdown every month for years now... ****, I hope I never have to do it for real
Just terrifying and horrible. It is so, so, SO easy to imagine that happening in my life.
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Nope. Not at all.No chance that we will be able to have a reasonable discussion about the outlawing of all guns
I am just here to follow up with you and @sheyduke .
Apparently there was a guy who makes YouTube videos and had a comment from Nicholas Cruz (the name of the Shooter) that said that he was going to be a professional school shooter. This person then contacted the FBI and apparently they could not positively identify who posted that comment.
I figured in todays world of investigative technology, we'd be able to track down a person who posted in a public forum using his actual name. But what do I know?
A damn shame. Here is a video if anyone is interested.
Nope. Not at all.
I am just here to follow up with you and @sheyduke .
Apparently there was a guy who makes YouTube videos and had a comment from Nicholas Cruz (the name of the Shooter) that said that he was going to be a professional school shooter. This person then contacted the FBI and apparently they could not positively identify who posted that comment.
I figured in todays world of investigative technology, we'd be able to track down a person who posted in a public forum using his actual name. But what do I know?
A damn shame. Here is a video if anyone is interested.
Yeah, I was poking fun at that actually... any call to ban ALL GUNS is automatically not reasonable, you know? I know we were talking in theory before, but...
And yeah, I will be curious to see what happened here. Did anyone ever talk to him? Was he seen by professionals and deemed not to be a danger? Did the FBI just miss?
There is a lot left still to hear.
ZERO chance the FBI could not track that guy down if they considered him a serious threat. ZERO f-ing chance. They just didn't take it serious.
Yeah, obviously they could find him. But was there a reason they didn't see him as a serious threat? That's what I am assuming happened... either that, or he simply slipped through the cracks... which is not necessarily the fault of anyone... could be, of course, but could also be the result of an overworked and underfunded Bureau or who knows what. Still a lot more information we need to know about what contact he had with law enforcement (if any).
Banning all guns would be ultimately impossible. But there should be no reason in the world the average citizen should be able to buy a 25-50 round drum or clip for a rifle. Honestly why would you need more than 5 or 6? Same with hand guns. Why should guns that hold large capacity clips and are so quick to reload be so readily available. Nothing a 6 shot revolver couldn't handle.
A few of the kids that knew him said he was an angry racist. So I guess that's not unbelievable.
Nothing has come out that suggests he targeted a specific group has it? Not that it makes it less or more of a tragedy.
Haven’t seen anything to indicate he targeted anyone… Although this might sound funny, the white nationalist guy I think may have said he had problems with a girl? I don’t know.
In today's society, you take every threat as a serious threat. Completely unrelated to this shooting, but coincidentally timed. In Brunswick county here in NC the FBI and Sheriff's office have been in full force at a high school the past few days because of a rumor.
So terribly sorry to hear that regarding your daughter ... Man, you went thru a lot.
You and I really do not disagree at all in principle. We only differ in term of assessing what is technologically feasible. It is entirely possible that you are more correct in this regard (because I deal with tech all day and may over-estimate its reach).
Thanks sharing your thoughts (and experiences too). It helps me to think about my positions from viewpoints that I did not have from my background.
Just a thing I want to clarify -- you may have mis-understood me in one regard. Like you, I actually do not have faith in other people's goodness of hearts. Your solution is to arm yourself. My (ivory-tower, maybe) "solution" is to devise a societal arrangement, thru technology advance, where such cancerous cells have no mechanism (i.e. guns) to harm healthy cells and the healthy cells have the technology to self-defend. I agree that there will always be cancerous cells, which cannot be prevented or cured.
I have to say, I am impressed that overall we’ve been much better with each other in this thread about a really serious topic then we generally are in basketball threads
I have to say, I am impressed that overall we’ve been much better with each other in this thread about a really serious topic then we generally are in basketball threads
I used to talk about basketball a bit more here, but inadvertently pissed off a few folks. But fingers crossed -- I haven't offended anyone on the serious topics.
And what happened because of prohibition? The mob became stronger and the government eventually allowed alcohol to become legal( not saying it’s because the mob it also had to do with the fact they came up with a profitable way to tax it).
No my point is there is not one way to fix it that two parties would or will agree on. NC has some of the greatest gun laws and purchasing laws imo.
Once again please keep in mind the harsher the law the more the criminal stands to make. It’s always risk versus reward.
As far as other countries, they don’t have the constitution and the bill of rights protecting and that is something I myself will never go against.
I wish there was a good answer. People have been hurting other people since the beginning of time and I doubt it ever stops.
I have to say, I am impressed that overall we’ve been much better with each other in this thread about a really serious topic then we generally are in basketball threads
Me too. It's a subject that most people are going to lean very heavily to one side or the other and be very passionate about that stance. I'm glad it has stayed pretty civil too
The FBI is responsible for this IMO they knew about him! The principal knew about him too. I'm not getting in the gun debate because I think everyone knows where I'd stand! There is a serious problem though when authorities are told about these threats and nothing happens. Like the FBI needs another reason to be shamed
Right?
Next up for evenhanded and thoughtful conversation? Abortion! Lawful medical individual right, or murder of Gods children! Anddddd... go!
I disagree with you on attributing the country-to-country disparity to constitutional differences. But I don't think we can really discuss this in depth here (on a sports forum). I will keep your theory in mind, when I think about this issue again some day. Thanks for replying to my post.
This has been a problem for a long time but I believe it is getting worse. I have told the story already a couple of times about the kid bringing a gun to school when I was in high school. He told me he had a football player picking on him and was tired of it. He showed me the gun. It was a small pistol he had hidden in the school bus under a shirt. As I said before, I went to the principal and told him. Did that save that football players life? I don't know. Deep down, I really don't believe he was going to shot the guy, but I don't have anyway of knowing for sure. That was in 1981 or 82......long time ago but was still going on back then.
Oh it gets way uglier on here during and after a loss.I have to say, I am impressed that overall we’ve been much better with each other in this thread about a really serious topic then we generally are in basketball threads
I like your style.Right?
Next up for evenhanded and thoughtful conversation? Abortion! Lawful medical individual right, or murder of Gods children! Anddddd... go!
I will go.
Anybody who is okay with abortion has no moral leg to stand on when it comes to gun control. More human lives are taken by abortion every year than by guns.
Okay, I think I set the standard. Your turn.
Right?
Next up for evenhanded and thoughtful conversation? Abortion! Lawful medical individual right, or murder of Gods children! Anddddd... go!
Man.....you are really in a poking mood today!! I'm not chiming in on this one........YET!!!
Fortunately we aren't going to have to worry about that for the rest of the year!!......right??
The only thing I will say is, say the questioned him went and seen him what’s the crime? What can they hold him for? What can they arrest him for or detain him for?Nope. Not at all.
I am just here to follow up with you and @sheyduke .
Apparently there was a guy who makes YouTube videos and had a comment from Nicholas Cruz (the name of the Shooter) that said that he was going to be a professional school shooter. This person then contacted the FBI and apparently they could not positively identify who posted that comment.
I figured in todays world of investigative technology, we'd be able to track down a person who posted in a public forum using his actual name. But what do I know?
A damn shame. Here is a video if anyone is interested.
See everyone thinks it’s simple it’s just not.
Now had he made it towards someone it becomes different. I agree an evaluation should have been done after loosing his parent or guarding but not if the signs weren’t there to do so.
I’m sad for the tragedy but things aren’t so easy as many think
Just so we actually know the facts
https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...1d91fcec3fe_story.html?utm_term=.f733c0709e88
https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...1d91fcec3fe_story.html?utm_term=.f733c0709e88
I don't think it is cut and dry. I know it is not as easy as typing on a message board. I just hate that we can't stop these things from happening when the red flags are whipping in the wind. I am only expressing my frustration, not pretending to have the answers.
Nikolas Cruz should've been charged under FL 828.12(2) which is a third class felony long before he shot up the school in Florida. If this had been reported earlier he'd have been convicted and not been able to pass a background check.
He was known to publish images of animal cruelty he himself committed on social media. Had this been reported and taken seriously he would have been charged with the aforementioned crimes which are a felony under Florida state law.
Part of the problem in our society is the "see something, say something" and the "I don't want to get involved" conflict.
People don't want to intrude upon others privacy and we hear this time and time again such as with the San Bernardino shooters neighbor not reporting.
Combine the other factors of him being expelled from the school, his interest in Syrian groups actions in combat, and a myriad of other warning signs that should have been pieced together. It's better to make a mistake reporting something than to later regret not saying something
Animal cruelty is often a sign of a dangerous person. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, responsible for the Columbine shooting, both boasted of their acts of animal cruelty. Serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer was also known to have tortured and killed animals.
There were numerous warning signs with this individual that could have prevented him from ever obtaining a weapon through legal means. The more concerning thing is his interest in learning how to make bombs. This was also something similar in the case of Paddock, Vegas shooter.
There has been a big push over the past several years to strengthen animal cruelty laws, particularly the more severe cases involving torturing and killing of animals. This school shooter is another reason why these laws need to be strengthened and reported.
Another disturbing trend is the desire of people that commit these crimes to learn how to make homemade explosives(HME). HME is not difficult to make and can have catastrophic results that could cause far worse casualty numbers. This is also something that needs to be addressed.
Another huge tie in with the animal cruelty, the expulsion, and other things was the fact he published he was going to be a professional school shooter. How did this not raise a bunch of red flags tied in with the rest?
He should of been locked up and never allowed the chance to do anything
He was known to publish images of animal cruelty he himself committed on social media. Had this been reported and taken seriously he would have been charged with the aforementioned crimes which are a felony under Florida state law.
Part of the problem in our society is the "see something, say something" and the "I don't want to get involved" conflict.
People don't want to intrude upon others privacy and we hear this time and time again such as with the San Bernardino shooters neighbor not reporting.
Combine the other factors of him being expelled from the school, his interest in Syrian groups actions in combat, and a myriad of other warning signs that should have been pieced together. It's better to make a mistake reporting something than to later regret not saying something
Animal cruelty is often a sign of a dangerous person. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, responsible for the Columbine shooting, both boasted of their acts of animal cruelty. Serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer was also known to have tortured and killed animals.
There were numerous warning signs with this individual that could have prevented him from ever obtaining a weapon through legal means. The more concerning thing is his interest in learning how to make bombs. This was also something similar in the case of Paddock, Vegas shooter.
There has been a big push over the past several years to strengthen animal cruelty laws, particularly the more severe cases involving torturing and killing of animals. This school shooter is another reason why these laws need to be strengthened and reported.
Another disturbing trend is the desire of people that commit these crimes to learn how to make homemade explosives(HME). HME is not difficult to make and can have catastrophic results that could cause far worse casualty numbers. This is also something that needs to be addressed.
Another huge tie in with the animal cruelty, the expulsion, and other things was the fact he published he was going to be a professional school shooter. How did this not raise a bunch of red flags tied in with the rest?
He should of been locked up and never allowed the chance to do anything
I was really just being a smart ass along with thedude. I don't really have any desire to dive into this topic.
You are right. Let me remove that. For some reason, I fancied myself being a social scientist today.
But if his defense lawyer or public defender gets him off or he pleas to a lesser charge they can’t even say that( not defending him at all) there is still due process.
Are they gonna shut down YouTube? You can find out how to make a firearm fully auto, make silencers, make bombs, make bullets all on YouTube. Shoot the web will teach people anything.
The writer is right about one thing. People don’t want to get involved in others business for more then on reason.
Part of the problem is these a-holes become famous. Stop saying their name! "Loser Coward shot up a school today"
