OT: On this Valentine's Day there is tragedy and sadness.

[skysdad]

I guess all know by now about the shooting at the high school in Florida. Reports are there are several fatalities and others injured. The suspect is in custody and is being treated at a hospital with some of his victims. There are parents there who do not know whether their child is dead or alive. How sad is that. If you believe in heavenly Father and his son Jesus Christ please send out your prayers to these families. If you don't believe send out your thoughts of comfort to these families. PLEASE LET'S NOT MAKE THIS INTO A POLITICAL THREAD WERE THERE IS BICKERING BETWEEN US. There will be plenty of that going on through other social medias. Let's dedicate this thread to the victims and their families. PLEASE ONCE AGAIN LET'S NOT TURN THIS INTO OUR OWN POLITICAL VIEWS. I'm asking our mods to make sure all political post are deleted. OFC

 

[QC Dukie]

Very sad news. When will this madness ever end. Praying for the families involved in this tragedy.

 

[TheDude1]

Terrible. Unfortunately it is the new norm

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

Horrible tragedy. Sad world. It just seems redundant to say anything else. We'll just do it again in a couple months.

 

[Canadian Dukie]

my sincere condolences,such a tragedy.very much puts perspective of what's really important in life.

 

[TheDude1]

A lot of dead now.

 

[DukeRulesBasketball]

Heartbroken! Thoughts and prayers with the victims and families! So so sad!

 

[germantondevil]

Prayers for all involved. Would be nice to be able to pray before tragedy strikes in our schools. Seemed to work very well back in the day.

 

[TheDude1]

Prayers for all involved. Would be nice to be able to pray before tragedy strikes in our schools. Seemed to work very well back in the day.

Uhhh... I don think it was prayers that kept school shootings from happening, unless prayers also made World Wars and the Holocaust and slavery happen? Likely other issues at work.

 

[skysdad]

Uhhh... I don think it was prayers that kept school shootings from happening, unless prayers also made World Wars and the Holocaust and slavery happen? Likely other issues at work.

's called


It's called agency and choices. Evil choices but choices. OFC

 

[hallside]

Wow.. Found out by this post. Very saddening and thoughts with the victim’s and their families.

 

[SoCal_Dukie3]

Sickening and saddening.

 

[LONMUNU]

This happens all too often and breaks my heart every time. So sad.

 

[TheDude1]

This happens all too often and breaks my heart every time. So sad.

It is pretty crazy that it seems that being a student is a more dangerous "profession" than FBI agent or cop. Insane.

 

[2 skerz 3]

It is pretty crazy that it seems that being a student is a more dangerous "profession" than FBI agent or cop. Insane.

Wtf?? I’ve read some dumb shit on here, but this may top it all. Goodness man, use some common sense!

 

[gottagonow]

Wtf?? I’ve read some dumb shit on here, but this may top it all. Goodness man, use some common sense!

I don't think Dude realizes what he said.

 

[TheDude1]

Wtf?? I’ve read some dumb shit on here, but this may top it all. Goodness man, use some common sense!

I didn't mean this literally, obviously. Hyperbole of how horrible this is.

Edit: okay, randomly suddenly got interested in how many school shooting deaths there are a year, and how many cops get killed. Get this:

As of right now, 18 policemen have died in the line of duty in 2018. 18 students have been shot to death in schools in 2018.

Obviously it's just freaky timing of being so early in the year and this big tragedy, but that's an odd coincidence.

 

[SoCal_Dukie3]

It is pretty crazy that it seems that being a student is a more dangerous "profession" than FBI agent or cop. Insane.

Wow. There are no words.....

 

[2 skerz 3]

I didn't mean this literally, obviously. Hyperbole of how horrible this is.

Edit: okay, randomly suddenly got interested in how many school shooting deaths there are a year, and how many cops get killed. Get this:

As of right now, 18 policemen have died in the line of duty in 2018. 18 students have been shot to death in schools in 2018.

Obviously it's just freaky timing of being so early in the year and this big tragedy, but that's an odd coincidence.

I disagree wholeheartedly, but thank you for the statistics!

 

[DukefanKY]

I didn't mean this literally, obviously. Hyperbole of how horrible this is.

Edit: okay, randomly suddenly got interested in how many school shooting deaths there are a year, and how many cops get killed. Get this:

As of right now, 18 policemen have died in the line of duty in 2018. 18 students have been shot to death in schools in 2018.

Obviously it's just freaky timing of being so early in the year and this big tragedy, but that's an odd coincidence.

I think I get what you're saying. A policeman or fireman are putting their lives on the line based on the nature of their job. A student should have zero possibility of their life being in danger just by walking into a classroom.

 

[OldasdirtDevil]

A senseless and despicable act. Thoughts and prayers to everyone involved.

OFC

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

All of the signs were there. Kids are saying they knew he would shoot up the school, said he was obsessed with guns and it was all over his social media accounts. Killed and harmed animals. Was unstable already and just recently lost his adoptive mother.

Christ people, see something, say something. I hope that anyone here with kids really push this issue. See something, say something.

 

[TheDude1]

All of the signs were there. Kids are saying they knew he would shoot up the school, said he was obsessed with guns and it was all over his social media accounts. Killed and harmed animals. Was unstable already and just recently lost his adoptive mother.

Christ people, see something, say something. I hope that anyone here with kids really push this issue. See something, say something.

Hurting animals seems to be one of the real classic signs of crazy and dangerous

And yeah, you often know the kids. I can think of one or two in my lifetime that I've shaken my head at and wondered about. The thing is... we don't really have a process in which you can say something *effectively*. Rumors of a kid killing a squirrel is one thing... but how do you go from that to effective psych evaluation and observation...

A) without getting into some strange "rights of the individual" area... you are allowed to have guns, and allowed to post pictures with them, and allowed to do a LOT of stuff in this country, where we pride ourselves on freedoms, and...

B) without overwhelming the system, either the police system or school system or whatever, with stuff that ends up being nothing, and...

C) with an effective evaluator. I mean, who does that? Love our cops, but that isn't really their field. The school counselor isn't going to be the best for that. Where are we going to get the most effective people for identifying true danger?

It's damn tricky.

Might have to skip current events this morning. Talking about this stuff with the kids is always tricky.

I think I get what you're saying. A policeman or fireman are putting their lives on the line based on the nature of their job. A student should have zero possibility of their life being in danger just by walking into a classroom.

Exactly. Sorry if i wrote it clunky. What the hell is going on in the world where parents, teachers, even the kids themselves go to SCHOOL and worry about getting killed, you know? It's just... insane. It's f'ing school.

Wow. There are no words.....

You should get in touch with a moderator and let them know that your ignore button just doesn't seem to be working.

 

[TheDude1]

All of the signs were there. Kids are saying they knew he would shoot up the school, said he was obsessed with guns and it was all over his social media accounts. Killed and harmed animals. Was unstable already and just recently lost his adoptive mother.

Christ people, see something, say something. I hope that anyone here with kids really push this issue. See something, say something.

A perfect example of the issues with your second part:

Alex Jones, noted right wing media personality and conspiracy theorist, tweeted this during the shooting (I cannot imagine he was aware of it? Then again, he also says that Sandy Hook was a government setup or something...)



So. Beyond this obviously being disgusting... If you see that... do you say something? Does it seem like a strange and possibly threatening tweet? Or political commentary? Do you consider the absolutely crazy things he has said in the past when looking at it? What about the person who did that to their gun (ironically, it looks to me like the same gun as was used in the shootings...) Do you "say something" about them? And who decides if they are a threat or not? How, legally, do you handle that, without getting sued and costing your town oodles of money?

Won't even get into the idea that a lot of absolute nutjobs follow this guy, and stuff like this likely isn't helping the mental states of some of them

 

[sheyduke]

Thoughts and prayers to all involved.

 

[Tlass]

Heart goes out to the families, and that community.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

A perfect example of the issues with your second part:

Alex Jones, noted right wing media personality and conspiracy theorist, tweeted this during the shooting (I cannot imagine he was aware of it? Then again, he also says that Sandy Hook was a government setup or something...)

View embedded media

So. Beyond this obviously being disgusting... If you see that... do you say something? Does it seem like a strange and possibly threatening tweet? Or political commentary? Do you consider the absolutely crazy things he has said in the past when looking at it? What about the person who did that to their gun (ironically, it looks to me like the same gun as was used in the shootings...) Do you "say something" about them? And who decides if they are a threat or not? How, legally, do you handle that, without getting sued and costing your town oodles of money?

Won't even get into the idea that a lot of absolute nutjobs follow this guy, and stuff like this likely isn't helping the mental states of some of them

Completely different. But for the sake of answering your question, yes. I would consider that a threat, but a credible threat? Probably not. It does open the door for crazy people to act though. So I think something should be done about that.

The shooter in this case had his social media littered with all of the signs you would need to consider him a credible threat. Add that to the way he was viewed by his peers and you had the opportunity to have someone bring him to the attention of law enforcement. He wasn't allowed to have a backpack in school last year because they considered him a threat then.

 

[TheDude1]

By the way, anyone else give their kid an extra big hug and kiss leaving today? I can’t believe my six-year-old boy needs to know about lockdowns :-(

 

[Mpm277]

My heart goes out to the families and friends of those killed and wounded. This is the world we've allowed ourselves to live in. I'm not a parent and it's a good thing because I'd have no idea what to tell my kid after these things.

Thoughts and prayers to all those affected by this. Then thoughts and prayers out to the next and then the next. As a group, it's all we're willing to do, unfortunately.

 

[TheDude1]

Completely different. But for the sake of answering your question, yes. I would consider that a threat, but a credible threat? Probably not. It does open the door for crazy people to act though. So I think something should be done about that.

The shooter in this case had his social media littered with all of the signs you would need to consider him a credible threat. Add that to the way he was viewed by his peers and you had the opportunity to have someone bring him to the attention of law enforcement. He wasn't allowed to have a backpack in school last year because they considered him a threat then.

Sorry, for some reason I hadn’t refreshed. Yeah, I don’t know if it is a threat or not, but it certainly needs to be looked at, and as you say, it just feeds the fire.

The problem is, how do you balance the freedoms we expect people to have with keeping the community safe? And how do you pay for all of the mental health screening and review that we would need for all of the threats that we would fine, and to pay for the lawsuits of the people we investigate who don’t like it, you know?

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

Sorry, for some reason I hadn’t refreshed. Yeah, I don’t know if it is a threat or not, but it certainly needs to be looked at, and as you say, it just feeds the fire.

The problem is, how do you balance the freedoms we expect people to have with keeping the community safe? And how do you pay for all of the mental health screening and review that we would need for all of the threats that we would fine, and to pay for the lawsuits of the people we investigate who don’t like it, you know?

Well. Some think it is more of a slippery slope than I do. But when you post something on Facebook, Instagram or anything like that you should not expect any freedoms of privacy. You chose to put whatever it is that you put out there. If something you posted leads to a knock at your door, I am fine with that. Obviously the burden is on the law to go through proper channels, but in this case I think had someone shared their concerns with law enforcement and the had school shared with them that they considered this kid so much of a threat that he wasn't allowed to bring a backpack to school, I feel like that would give the law enough to at least have a talk with him. Probably not enough physical evidence for a search warrant, but we will never know how effective a simple conversation with the kid would have been.

 

[TheDude1]

Well. Some think it is more of a slippery slope than I do. But when you post something on Facebook, Instagram or anything like that you should not expect any freedoms of privacy. You chose to put whatever it is that you put out there. If something you posted leads to a knock at your door, I am fine with that. Obviously the burden is on the law to go through proper channels, but in this case I think had someone shared their concerns with law enforcement and the had school shared with them that they considered this kid so much of a threat that he wasn't allowed to bring a backpack to school, I feel like that would give the law enough to at least have a talk with him. Probably not enough physical evidence for a search warrant, but we will never know how effective a simple conversation with the kid would have been.

Yeah... while I doubt a conversation would have helped him, I do wonder if it would be enough for someone with some legal authority to take more action.

I have to imagine the police knew about the kid. They know about a few of ours, for sure, and they keep pretty close tabs on the high school. But going from "keeping tabs" to actually taking action... man, that is a big step, and one that is hard for law enforcement to do, sometimes... and sometimes law enforcement isn't who SHOULD be doing this. But I don't think we really have any sort of mental health care system in place in our country that can effectively and individually handle that, and lord knows, I have a hard time thinking many American communities would finance such a thing in the way it would NEED to be financed to be effective. There are a lot of things that some Americans don't truly want to spend money on, and mental health is DEFINITELY one of them.

The slippery slope thing is SO individual. Some people don't believe in slopes at all; they see most things as single examples that are largely unconnected to other cases. Some people see EVERYTHING as a slippery slope; the "if you try to outlaw machine guns next they'll outlaw every type of gun on earth" folks. Most rational people are somewhere in between, but there is still a LOT of variance in what someone sees as unconnected and what someone sees as a logical continuation/slope.

 

[SoCal_Dukie3]

Hurting animals seems to be one of the real classic signs of crazy and dangerous

And yeah, you often know the kids. I can think of one or two in my lifetime that I've shaken my head at and wondered about. The thing is... we don't really have a process in which you can say something *effectively*. Rumors of a kid killing a squirrel is one thing... but how do you go from that to effective psych evaluation and observation...

A) without getting into some strange "rights of the individual" area... you are allowed to have guns, and allowed to post pictures with them, and allowed to do a LOT of stuff in this country, where we pride ourselves on freedoms, and...

B) without overwhelming the system, either the police system or school system or whatever, with stuff that ends up being nothing, and...

C) with an effective evaluator. I mean, who does that? Love our cops, but that isn't really their field. The school counselor isn't going to be the best for that. Where are we going to get the most effective people for identifying true danger?

It's damn tricky.

Might have to skip current events this morning. Talking about this stuff with the kids is always tricky.



Exactly. Sorry if i wrote it clunky. What the hell is going on in the world where parents, teachers, even the kids themselves go to SCHOOL and worry about getting killed, you know? It's just... insane. It's f'ing school.



You should get in touch with a moderator and let them know that your ignore button just doesn't seem to be working.

Oh no, I unignored you to see the drivel. It was par for the course.....at least you are saving yourself somewhat by discussing mental health and not solely blaming firearms.

Back to ignore you go - too soon to get into this fresh off of yesterday. I hope that community can heal soon!

PS - machine guns are already illegal, just FYI

 

[Mpm277]

I didn't mean this literally, obviously. Hyperbole of how horrible this is.

Edit: okay, randomly suddenly got interested in how many school shooting deaths there are a year, and how many cops get killed. Get this:

As of right now, 18 policemen have died in the line of duty in 2018. 18 students have been shot to death in schools in 2018.

Obviously it's just freaky timing of being so early in the year and this big tragedy, but that's an odd coincidence.

I think it's been at least 19 kids killed. 17 in Florida and 2 in Kentucky last month.

 

[TheDude1]

Oh no, I unignored you to see the drivel. It was par for the course.....at least you are saving yourself somewhat by discussing mental health and not solely blaming firearms.

Back to ignore you go - too soon to get into this fresh off of yesterday. I hope that community can heal soon!

PS - machine guns are already illegal, just FYI

Ah. Right.

PS - No, they aren't. That's a bizarre and rather uninformed take.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

Yeah... while I doubt a conversation would have helped him, I do wonder if it would be enough for someone with some legal authority to take more action.

I have to imagine the police knew about the kid. They know about a few of ours, for sure, and they keep pretty close tabs on the high school. But going from "keeping tabs" to actually taking action... man, that is a big step, and one that is hard for law enforcement to do, sometimes... and sometimes law enforcement isn't who SHOULD be doing this. But I don't think we really have any sort of mental health care system in place in our country that can effectively and individually handle that, and lord knows, I have a hard time thinking many American communities would finance such a thing in the way it would NEED to be financed to be effective. There are a lot of things that some Americans don't truly want to spend money on, and mental health is DEFINITELY one of them.

The slippery slope thing is SO individual. Some people don't believe in slopes at all; they see most things as single examples that are largely unconnected to other cases. Some people see EVERYTHING as a slippery slope; the "if you try to outlaw machine guns next they'll outlaw every type of gun on earth" folks. Most rational people are somewhere in between, but there is still a LOT of variance in what someone sees as unconnected and what someone sees as a logical continuation/slope.

I'm with you on a lot of this and to be honest, it's tiresome debating this issue. That's not directed at you or this particular conversation, just a general statement based on me not having answers and most people having all the answers on these topics.

I work with people who are in trouble with the law. So I see all kinds of people. Most of them are good people who have made poor discissions, some are pure dirt bags and others are people who don't have the mental capability to make good discussions and all they know is to act out. So I see it first hand that in the eyes of the law, no matter what category these people fit under, they get treated the same. Do have have the answer to make things change? No. Like you said, it will cost a lot of money to get a system in place and the people in Washington will never agree on a non partisan outcome.

Only to clarify. I was not saying that a conversation with the kid wold help him. I only wonder how it would have effected his discission to act out if he thought he was being monitored. Sometimes it's a voice telling you not to do something.

 

[SWEc/o95]

So what has changed since our parents and grandparents came up in this world? Mental health problems have always been there. So has bullying. Semi automatic rifles have been around for 100 years. Sure we had that once instance when the guy climbed the bell tower at Texas but this was not a norm.

Chemicals from pollution....chemicals added to your water at water treatment facilities, chemicals used on crops seeping in the water we drink from wells, chemicals added to processed meats and other food, Dr's prescribing antidepressants every time someone feels a little sad, 75% of americans walking around here medicated in some form or another, lack of parenting and discipline....my bet is the answer is somewhere in there.

 

[sheyduke]

Completely different. But for the sake of answering your question, yes. I would consider that a threat, but a credible threat? Probably not. It does open the door for crazy people to act though. So I think something should be done about that.

The shooter in this case had his social media littered with all of the signs you would need to consider him a credible threat. Add that to the way he was viewed by his peers and you had the opportunity to have someone bring him to the attention of law enforcement. He wasn't allowed to have a backpack in school last year because they considered him a threat then.

Social media is protected under the constitution of the United States. It’s not so simple for law enforcement to act or get access to that as some would think. Heck it’s not even admissible in court unless you go through the proper channels.
As for students who knew, they could have told a lot of people but did those adults turn the other cheek? It’s simply to many unknowns and unless he directly threaten government a student a person place or thing what’s the legal charge?
It’s a tragedy beyond measure any time innocent life’s are lost.

 

[sheyduke]

So what has changed since our parents and grandparents came up in this world? Mental health problems have always been there. So has bullying. Semi automatic rifles have been around for 100 years. Sure we had that once instance when the guy climbed the bell tower at Texas but this was not a norm.

Chemicals from pollution....chemicals added to your water at water treatment facilities, chemicals used on crops seeping in the water we drink from wells, chemicals added to processed meats and other food, Dr's prescribing antidepressants every time someone feels a little sad, 75% of americans walking around here medicated in some form or another, lack of parenting and discipline....my bet is the answer is somewhere in there.

I don’t know about y’all but obedience has changed a lot. Some of the ways I used to hear juveniles talk to their parents would have resulted in my teeth being gone.

 

[sheyduke]

Oh no, I unignored you to see the drivel. It was par for the course.....at least you are saving yourself somewhat by discussing mental health and not solely blaming firearms.

Back to ignore you go - too soon to get into this fresh off of yesterday. I hope that community can heal soon!

PS - machine guns are already illegal, just FYI

So-cal they are not illegal.