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OT: On this Valentine's Day there is tragedy and sadness.

sheyduke said:
So-cal they are not illegal.
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So you or I can go buy a non-antique fully auto rifle with no FFL?

Ok let's get technical to the law:

"New, fully automatic weapons—weapons that reload automatically and fire continuously with one trigger pull—have been banned for civilians in the United States since the Firearm Owners' Protection Act of 1986."

I see your point though - someone could dust off an old fully auto and try to utilize it.
 
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LetsGoDuke301 said:
I'm with you on a lot of this and to be honest, it's tiresome debating this issue. That's not directed at you or this particular conversation, just a general statement based on me not having answers and most people having all the answers on these topics.

I work with people who are in trouble with the law. So I see all kinds of people. Most of them are good people who have made poor discissions, some are pure dirt bags and others are people who don't have the mental capability to make good discussions and all they know is to act out. So I see it first hand that in the eyes of the law, no matter what category these people fit under, they get treated the same. Do have have the answer to make things change? No. Like you said, it will cost a lot of money to get a system in place and the people in Washington will never agree on a non partisan outcome.

Only to clarify. I was not saying that a conversation with the kid wold help him. I only wonder how it would have effected his discission to act out if he thought he was being monitored. Sometimes it's a voice telling you not to do something.
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Sure, I get the clarification.

No problem, not taking it personally; I agree, it is ****ing tiresome as hell. But damn, we have to do something at some point here... this is just too much.

Unfortunately we, as a nation, do not have the will to do so... as you said, it is too partisan an issue for some people, and many people will talk a big game on mental health and all of that, but they sure as heck won't endorse actually spending the money on what needs to be done.

Damn shame.
 
SoCal_Dukie3 said:
So you or I can go buy a non-antique fully auto rifle with no FFL? Interesting!

Ok let's get technical to the law:

"New, fully automatic weapons—weapons that reload automatically and fire continuously with one trigger pull—have been banned for civilians in the United States since the Firearm Owners' Protection Act of 1986."
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You said they were illegal. You didn’t saying nothing about obtaining a clas three level federal firearms license. Yes you can own them as long as a will and trust are complete and the firing pin is not in the weapon making it inoperative.

I also don’t get why people point to laws when they can be circumvented. You can take any and I mean any firearm and make it full auto. And that law means ,” can not purchase a fully automatic weapon or sale it.
 
sheyduke said:
Social media is protected under the constitution of the United States. It’s not so simple for law enforcement to act or get access to that as some would think. Heck it’s not even admissible in court unless you go through the proper channels.
As for students who knew, they could have told a lot of people but did those adults turn the other cheek? It’s simply to many unknowns and unless he directly threaten government a student a person place or thing what’s the legal charge?
It’s a tragedy beyond measure any time innocent life’s are lost.
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Right. I just believe that you shouldn't expect to be protected by privacy online. That is the slippery slope I was referencing. I have addressed that the burden is on the law to go through the proper channels. And you are right, we don't know who said what to who. I am just saying that IMO there was enough of a red flag to justify having a talk with tgis kid even if there was not enough evidence for a search warrant. As you said, without him actively breaking laws, they have their hands tied.
 
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sheyduke said:
You said they were illegal. You didn’t saying nothing about obtaining a clas three level federal firearms license. Yes you can own them as long as a will and trust are complete and the firing pin is not in the weapon making it inoperative.
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So getting them is easy then, eh? You have a FFL? I'm curious.

And yes they are illegal for "machine gun" civilian use post 1986 manufacture date.
 
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SoCal_Dukie3 said:
So getting them is easy then, eh? You have a FFL? I'm curious.

And yes they are illegal for "machine gun" use post 1986 manufacture date.
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Yes class one through three.

The only difference is you have to submit your application and paperwork to the ATF. It’s almost like the same process as a concealed weapons permit just more expensive and time consuming
 
sheyduke said:
Haven’t quit I left full time a year ago I still take legal updates and attend training and work 16 hours out the month to keep my certification you never really quit,lol
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3 of the guys in my office are ex cops. They don't make as much money, but I guess the stress is lower. My brother is still in the gang unit for the sheriff's department. Works all kinds of hours and claims he still loves it.
 
LetsGoDuke301 said:
Everybody have a good day. I am out. This appears to be headed for the political side.

@TheDude1 , glad to have a civil discussion with you.
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Yeah man, no problem, my pleasure as well. It's a really, really messy issue that touches on SO many important topics, and unfortunately one that our leaders don't seem to really know how to deal with... but I'm not sure if ANYONE knows how to deal with it?

Unfortunately the convos sometimes get SO partisan and touchy... they can get messy and unhelpfully emotional:(

sheyduke said:
Sorry if I hijacked the thread guys.
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You didn't at all. Machine guns aren't illegal. You were right. Not sure why So_Cal is moving the goalposts now to "is getting them easy" or whatever... he was simply wrong. Hell, if machine guns are illegal, I don't know what I've shot that goes rat-tat-tat so effectively:)

BTW, Shey, you seem to know... wtf is the difference between an FFL license and "class 3?" I always hear "class 3" and I've always taken it to mean the same thing... is the idea that you have a Class 3 FFL? The terminology, I get a bit lost with it.
 
LetsGoDuke301 said:
Nah. I didn't mean it like that. It's just inevitable. And maybe necessary, but I have had my share from the mainboard over the past few years. Ask thedude, he and I aren't necessarily buddy buddy on these issues.
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Actually Letsgo, on THIS one I bet we are closer to each other than on some other more traditionally political issues...
 
The main conversation I want to be reading right now is how to look after young people who have some much anger and are all mixed up about violence. The kid was adopted, lost both elderly adopted parents, showed plenty of signs of mental health instability, but was taken in by another family as well. I'm not sure what a community is really supposed to do with a person like this. The school had no choice but to kick him out. I would guess that he suffered from some developmental issues without birth parents. The details of his mother's pregnancy and his early childhood might be important. This one is just tough. How do we help this kid work through his issues and at the same time keep everyone else safe? This is a tough one, folks.
 
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TheDude1 said:
Yeah man, no problem, my pleasure as well. It's a really, really messy issue that touches on SO many important topics, and unfortunately one that our leaders don't seem to really know how to deal with... but I'm not sure if ANYONE knows how to deal with it?

Unfortunately the convos sometimes get SO partisan and touchy... they can get messy and unhelpfully emotional:(



You didn't at all. Machine guns aren't illegal. You were right. Not sure why So_Cal is moving the goalposts now to "is getting them easy" or whatever... he was simply wrong. Hell, if machine guns are illegal, I don't know what I've shot that goes rat-tat-tat so effectively:)

BTW, Shey, you seem to know... wtf is the difference between an FFL license and "class 3?" I always hear "class 3" and I've always taken it to mean the same thing... is the idea that you have a Class 3 FFL? The terminology, I get a bit lost with it.
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Yes it’s a class three FFL.
 
LetsGoDuke301 said:
3 of the guys in my office are ex cops. They don't make as much money, but I guess the stress is lower. My brother is still in the gang unit for the sheriff's department. Works all kinds of hours and claims he still loves it.
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Cops don’t make much money period. Acourse a lot work off duty which helps supplement their income. I get phone calls everyday wanting me to go back but no place a care to move to. I worked gang unit for a year and unless you stay in Raleigh, Durham the bigger city’s it’s not fun.
It’s a passion that drives you in law enforcement. I can bet you there are atleast a million cops asking wha can we do different. The truth is a lot and a little. It’s a sad situation
 
DukeDenver said:
The main conversation I want to be reading right now is how to look after young people who have some much anger and are all mixed up about violence. The kid was adopted, lost both elderly adopted parents, showed plenty of signs of mental health instability, but was taken in by another family as well. I'm not sure what a community is really supposed to do with a person like this. The school had no choice but to kick him out. I would guess that he suffered from some developmental issues without birth parents. The details of his mother's pregnancy and his early childhood might be important. This one is just tough. How do we help this kid work through his issues and at the same time keep everyone else safe? This is a tough one, folks.
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Good post, well said.
 
I know many people will strongly disagree with me on this. But I do feel the real solution is a complete repeal of the Second Amendment and make gun ownership illegal.

The original intent of the Amendment has long since been irrelevant in the sense that gun ownership cannot possibly protect private citizens against the tyranny of a State.

One other common argument in favor of ownership is the right to hunt. At this stage of our civilization, it is time to respect and protect the rights to live for wild animals that do us no harm.

The only thing positive from gun ownership is in the situation of homestead self-defense against a small number of criminals. But I think alternatives can be found, especially if the criminals are also unarmed.

It is certainly true, if we go down this path, things will be worse in the short run, as criminals will have guns (illegally) while good folks won't have guns to self-defend.

But you have a complex piece of software that is bug-laden, the only long-term solution is a complete debug (while anything else is just a band-aid), even though the software in the short run will be unstable while being debugged.
 
Criminals don't care if their gun is legal.....they are going to have a gun regardless if it's legal or not ...that's why they are called criminals. So the idea is to let the criminals KNOW that law abiding citizens don't have a gun. No thanks.
If someone uses a knife or hammer to commit a crime, can we now not have knives or hammers either. Not the solution.
 
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Sorry I didn't make it clear. Suppose gun ownership = life in prison. Then with intensive enforcement for a period of time (say a few years), all (at least most) of the illegal guns are taken out with the gun-owning criminals put away for good.

In my ideal world, after a few years, the only supply of guns would be from cross-border smuggling, an rounding error vs what the current supply from legal production on an assembly line.

In terms of knife/hammer, they do not do damage near the same scale as guns. Imagine what would have happened if the suspect had showed up at the FL school with only a bunch of knives and hammers.
 
We won't come to an agreement. Murder already carries a sentence of life in prison in many cases, but people still do it. I have a CCDW license and I use it. I refuse to think it's a good idea for me to not have the right to protect my wife and kids against bad people. I have been held at knife point by two people while I watched a very close, completely innocent, friend attacked by 4 others at once......and no guns were involved, but the incident still happened. That WILL NOT happen again,
 
No chance that we will be able to have a reasonable discussion about the outlawing of all guns;)
 
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DukefanKY, sorry that you and your friend went thru that. I do know how you feel.

Last year, there was a story of a lady (in Atlanta, I think) who owned a restaurant which was intruded by three armed criminals. Thankfully, she had a gun which saved her life.

But I still think there would be better alternatives. Basically, a gun can be used for both offense and defense. Good folks like you really need something for defense only. In an ideal world, no individuals should walk around with massive offense capability, while every one should walk around with sufficient defense capability.

So I am hoping that we can outlaw gun ownership, while there is something else to take its place to protect good people.

Maybe currently, our technology is not there. (For example, homes can be wired to send electricity over air. With a push a button you can zap any intruders, while you, your wife and daughter are safe because you all wear a bracelet that is pre-calibrated to shield you from the "zap".)

But I do think what I proposed is the direction we have to go (eventually). Otherwise, the prayers/condolences will never end.
 
I also do not expect criminals to just turn over their guns. I think the legislation would allow them put away much more easily before they get to commit that murder.
 
Food for thought. What makes drugs such a profitable business?

Do away with the second and your asking for drama on a larger scale. Millions of guns are already sold imported and exported illegally yearly. There is not one change that will help gun violence. Giving harsher punishments only jacks up the overall cost in which their sold
 
sheyduke said:
Food for thought. What makes drugs such a profitable business?

Do away with the second and your asking for drama on a larger scale. Millions of guns are already sold imported and exported illegally yearly. There is not one change that will help gun violence. Giving harsher punishments only jacks up the overall cost in which their sold
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There is NO way to put the genie back in the bottle.








(He is WAY too heavily armed!)

;)
 
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Woof, the AP is reporting the guy was a member of a white nationalist militia.
 
DukefanKY said:
Criminals don't care if their gun is legal.....they are going to have a gun regardless if it's legal or not ...that's why they are called criminals. So the idea is to let the criminals KNOW that law abiding citizens don't have a gun. No thanks.
If someone uses a knife or hammer to commit a crime, can we now not have knives or hammers either. Not the solution.
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All I know is, my gun is legal. I don’t have a permit to carry it, so it stays in my home. If some punk comes in my house, I am popping a cap in that azz, and I’ll take my chances later.
 
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I understand your stance, and do not disagree that in a perfect world where everyone had respect for others, and there were no need for innocent people to protect themselves, that it would be great to have no one carrying guns in public, however, I have zero confidence that this world will ever reach that point of widespread peace. I think there is always going to be mean, hateful, selfish people who will use whatever means necessary, guns or otherwise, to commit crimes against those who they think are easy prey. Therefore, until that day comes, I do not want to take away people's ability, like the lady you mentioned to be able to protect themselves. Let's say those 3 guys didn't have guns but had baseball bats. Her with her own bat would have stood no chance against them. I think in general we both want the same thing, which is that there is no need to carry. But my belief is that take the guns away, and we make it even more difficult for people like that lady to excercise their right to simply be a good person and live. I believe crime would actually rise. But again, I completely respect your opinion. I just don't have to confidence in this world to agree with it. My daughter, who was pregnant, was robbed at a gas station and the guy punched her, causing a miscarriage. Had she had a gun, maybe that doesn't happen, or maybe he takes it away from her and uses it on her? It's a touchy subject that we will never have complete agreement on, but for me, right now, I choose to arm myself. I hope I never use it, I really do, but I also do not want to regret not having the option and living the rest of my life wishing that in that one instance that I needed it, I didn't have it.
 
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QC Dukie said:
All I know is, my gun is legal. I don’t have a permit to carry it, so it stays in my home. If some punk comes in my house, I am popping a cap in that azz, and I’ll take my chances later.
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Just FYI, everything you post, I now in my head imagine your avatar of Zion, complete with that funny expression, reading aloud in a very loud old man down home Southern accent.
 
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TheDude1 said:
Just FYI, everything you post, I now in my head imagine your avatar of Zion, complete with that funny expression, reading aloud in a very loud old man down home Southern accent.
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NZlIPOS.jpg
 
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