Whitehead plays to cool and try to look smooth on the court and he steady turns the ball over and gets blown by on defense!!
Official Gameday thread- Duke vs Clemson
- Thread starter pisgah101
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Shoot 15 percent from 3 on the road and nothing is guaranteed. Flip has shown first round potential. But if Lively and Whitehead can't score on Clemson why would you spend a first round draft pick on them? I just don't see it. They look like second round picks. Flip should be the only one going pro imo.
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I don’t think so . Something has me thinking someone returns we don’t think ever will.
Can’t say anything that others aren’t. Flip was 8-22, Proctor was 5-15, and what was up with Whitehead going 1-6? I was out of town and had to watch it at a sports bar, so couldn’t hear the sound.
You aren’t going to win many games scoring 30 points in the 2nd half, unless you score 50 in the first.
Definitely not going to shooting 3-20 from the three point line.
You aren’t going to win many games scoring 30 points in the 2nd half, unless you score 50 in the first.
Definitely not going to shooting 3-20 from the three point line.
The consensus seems to be that we need to go 8 and 5 down the stretch to safely make the tournament. I guess it boils down to how confident you are that we can do this. If we lose at home to Miami I am not so sure about this. The loss today makes Miami a big game.
Yes, now Miami becomes a must win along with atleast two road wins .
So who do we start if Roach is out? Whitehead has kind of vanished. Proctor, Blakes, Mitchell, Flip and Young would be my choice. Roach coming back for Miami would be a nice boost. We really need a W next Saturday.
This isn’t Duke…I have my doubts we will see a team that resembles Duke for a long long time…
This is the new Duke…it’s going to be a huge regression from the Duke any of us remember.
This is the new Duke…it’s going to be a huge regression from the Duke any of us remember.
Well we didn't make the tournament 2 years ago. I still think we make the tournament, but this team seem like a Paulus/McRoberts/Nelson type of team.
That’s the
That’s the biggest Anomoly ever….Covid…players living in hotels…players being made to sit out…games cancelled…..coaches out…nobody ever experienced anything like that….and everybody was trying to figure it out….not even close to the same thing….
That’s the biggest Anomoly ever….Covid…players living in hotels…players being made to sit out…games cancelled…..coaches out…nobody ever experienced anything like that….and everybody was trying to figure it out….not even close to the same thing….
Yes…and some better than others. And everyone had to do it different…
And NOBODY knew what they where doing and they where all trying to figure it out the best they could…
Comparing that team, situation and not making the tourney to any other team in the history of college basketball is just crazy obtuse…
Well you said it's a huge regression from any Duke team we remember. I remember 2 years ago. We weren't that good that year.
We are now 28 on Kenpom. That is getting close to the bubble. We need to fix that.
We are now 28 on Kenpom. That is getting close to the bubble. We need to fix that.
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This Duke teams need scorers and weather anyone wants to admit it, it does resemble that team. Given the size difference a course but let’s look at it .
Roach coming off injury his freshman year.
Proctor would be Stewart
Whitehead at the moment equals Johnson except he hasn’t quit on the team yet.
Flip isn’t Hurt so that’s a plus.
This team can be better it just depends on the players and getting Roach back .
Roach coming off injury his freshman year.
Proctor would be Stewart
Whitehead at the moment equals Johnson except he hasn’t quit on the team yet.
Flip isn’t Hurt so that’s a plus.
This team can be better it just depends on the players and getting Roach back .
I think we are a better team than 2 years ago. But Steward was better than Proctor, as of now. That team had Moore and Hurt as sophs. Williams as a freshman, better than Lively so far. So similar. I'm not saying the rails will come off just that it is not that far fetched.
The whole college game is regressing to me. I knew K was retiring mainly because of age, but I think he and other longtime coaches like J Wright really didn’t like the direction the college game has headed. With NIL and the transfer portal, it seems like a crapshoot.
The guys fought and played much better in a hostile environment against a good team. I thought Jon coached a good game; you can't make the shots for them. We missed some critical free throws late, and we're missing Roach. I'm a little more optimistic after the game today, even with the loss. Clemson has one of the stoutest defenses in the ACC and is poised to either win in a tougher-than-most give-it-credit-for ACC or be near the top. I will echo what others have stated: Miami has become an even larger game now.
I thought we battled but we need more than moral victories at this point. Especially against Miami.
No doubt. But there's marked improvement from the State and Wake games. Today, I had to talk one of my friends off the ledge over this game. I was calm the whole time. They competed. Win or lose; I can live with that. I prefer the win, but we're a lot further along than we were two weeks ago. Maybe I am too optimistic, though.
Maybe, but Steward averaged like 14 a game for us. What is Proctor averaging? 6? He would be a beast for us as a junior. Instead he's in the G League. Oh well.
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There's been a change in our culture that I think is hurting the program. Not long ago, UK was known as the 1AD factory, with the downside that if you weren't 1AD quality, you still left the program because that's what was expected and another highly ranked freshman was ready to take your place. The lack of culture and continuity was only balanced if the new freshmen were All-SEC caliber.
Duke is now in this position. Nearly everyone leaves, whether to the draft or transfer, and when the noobies aren't studs, we have seasons like this. Does anyone doubt that we'll have 2-3 guys leave that wouldn't even think about leaving if they were at UNC? We used to mock them for turning 1ADs into 3-4 year players. Now they mock us for being a place no one wants to stay.
It's a lot to ask of Jon, to change the culture that he inherited from one of the top coaches of all time. But I hope he's having conversations with his staff, with K, and with Duke leadership about setting his own course and making it clear to players, recruits and their "handlers" that the priority is Duke's success. If that turns off certain recruits and their families, they can go to UK or the G-League.
Duke is now in this position. Nearly everyone leaves, whether to the draft or transfer, and when the noobies aren't studs, we have seasons like this. Does anyone doubt that we'll have 2-3 guys leave that wouldn't even think about leaving if they were at UNC? We used to mock them for turning 1ADs into 3-4 year players. Now they mock us for being a place no one wants to stay.
It's a lot to ask of Jon, to change the culture that he inherited from one of the top coaches of all time. But I hope he's having conversations with his staff, with K, and with Duke leadership about setting his own course and making it clear to players, recruits and their "handlers" that the priority is Duke's success. If that turns off certain recruits and their families, they can go to UK or the G-League.
A Duke fixated primarily on OAD's, while others hold on to veterans and bolster their rosters of experienced players thru the portal.
OFC
I think it's a valid point which no one wants to acknowledge. Everyone wants to come to Duke; but no one wants to stay at Duke. And it costs us in games like today. And the last 2 North Carolina games when we weren't ready for the big moment. I don't care how many NBA all stars we have; I care about national championships and final fours. Thank God we made the FF last year or I'd really be on this soap box.
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With the game at Cameron, I agree. The FF game was just a good basketball game that saw a few balls and calls not go our way.
But you have to make those plays. Laettner hitting the shot. Dunleavy hitting those 3's. The rest are just excuses.
We've had seniors who didn't make those plays in the past too. I don't blame that on youth. By that logic, JJ and Sheldon should've made the plays against LSU in '06 or countless others I could name. Sometimes the ball bounces the other team's way.
Unfortunately we rode jj ragged literally
They should have in 06 I agree. Bad matchup but more excuses. But we were in a position to succeed. Does anyone think we are in a position to succeed this year? Not next year either, unless guys want to return. Maybe I'm emotional right now, and I apologize if I am. I will always cheer for Duke; but it is difficult sometimes due to the recent turnover to be that invested.
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Yea, at this point, making the tournament and one or two wins in it seems like the most likely scenario. Of course, I will still watch the games but dreams of a strong run in March have faded. Next year? TBD. A couple of these freshmen have tough decisions to make, and those choices would greatly impact next year.
I think this is fair. More importantly, it's going to be about who those wins are from. If they can beat the Miami, Virginia, UnCheats- I'd think they be in. Last year, multiple power 5 programs made the tournament with 10-12 losses.
Just comes down to those quad 1 wins.
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I am traveling this week and didn't get to see either full game. I watched the highlights this morning. It was disappointing to be up 8 around the 10-12 minute mark and to lose by 8. That means they beat us by 16 points in the final quarter of the game. That's not gonna get it done against any good team. I agree we just don't have the leadership and/or alpha player this year. We have been spoiled over the years with so many. Maybe Roach was supposed to be that guy?? I don't know.
But, despite the weak last 5 minutes and terrible shooting from 3, I thought we showed some grit and fight in a packed house, hostile environment. It looked to me there were multiple times in the game where we could have folded, and we didn't. Like several others here, I do think we will eek out enough good wins to make the tourney.
But, despite the weak last 5 minutes and terrible shooting from 3, I thought we showed some grit and fight in a packed house, hostile environment. It looked to me there were multiple times in the game where we could have folded, and we didn't. Like several others here, I do think we will eek out enough good wins to make the tourney.
I looked at the stats for both teams. Not much difference. We were 3-20 from 3, they were 3-17. So it’s not like either team was lighting it up. We were 13-18 at FT’s, they were 15-18. We had 39 rebounds, they had 37. We had 9 assists, they had 12.
The game was lost the last 8 minutes. And I blame some on Flip. His lack of IQ, and by that I mean at least 3 of his fouls were offensive ones. That changed the way he played on both sides of the ball. Yeah, Whitehead and Lively are head scratchers, and an argument is definitely valid on them hurting us, but there’s plenty of blame.
Or is this who this team is, and we just have to accept it?
The game was lost the last 8 minutes. And I blame some on Flip. His lack of IQ, and by that I mean at least 3 of his fouls were offensive ones. That changed the way he played on both sides of the ball. Yeah, Whitehead and Lively are head scratchers, and an argument is definitely valid on them hurting us, but there’s plenty of blame.
Or is this who this team is, and we just have to accept it?
I’m going to add this.
Maybe this was Scheyers plan all along . To show these players they are not ready to make the jump and maybe some will actually listen .
Whitehead is gone . There is no doubt in my mind about that . Flip at the moment I’m 75/25 he is gone although I do not think his draft stock changes this season or next .
Mitchell, Lively and Proctor are head scratchers .
Yesterday this team grew up a lot but couldn’t buy a basket . Sometimes it takes seeing to know what needs to change . I think Scheyer and the staff see what needs to change , enter in Schutt, Reeves and Blakes. Blakes is the biggest example of if you put in the work good things happen . Hopefully Schutt and Reeves are sitting there watching, learning and seeing how hard you have to compete at this level .
Young will be 25 next season really don’t know if he wants to stay in college that long but he would be a nice returning player to add to the incoming class.
Don’t know what the answer is with the shooting other then continue to let it fly . The shots aren’t bad shots they simply aren’t falling . Even Roach returning won’t make shots fall so it’s onto the players to grow confidence.
Miami will be a tough win but Duke can win it .
Maybe this was Scheyers plan all along . To show these players they are not ready to make the jump and maybe some will actually listen .
Whitehead is gone . There is no doubt in my mind about that . Flip at the moment I’m 75/25 he is gone although I do not think his draft stock changes this season or next .
Mitchell, Lively and Proctor are head scratchers .
Yesterday this team grew up a lot but couldn’t buy a basket . Sometimes it takes seeing to know what needs to change . I think Scheyer and the staff see what needs to change , enter in Schutt, Reeves and Blakes. Blakes is the biggest example of if you put in the work good things happen . Hopefully Schutt and Reeves are sitting there watching, learning and seeing how hard you have to compete at this level .
Young will be 25 next season really don’t know if he wants to stay in college that long but he would be a nice returning player to add to the incoming class.
Don’t know what the answer is with the shooting other then continue to let it fly . The shots aren’t bad shots they simply aren’t falling . Even Roach returning won’t make shots fall so it’s onto the players to grow confidence.
Miami will be a tough win but Duke can win it .
Interesting point Shey. I hear a lot of "if (insert freshman name) has a big year and goes pro that will mean we had a good year." I don't think this is necessarily true. If guys think they can play in the NBA they will leave early. Some even seem to have the mindset that if they don't get drafted they can still make a roster. For whatever reason this is the culture at Duke. It is what it is. I don't think losing to State or Clemson makes one difference in their decisions.
No, they most often are well set-up shots; but they are not really close to going in, air balls and clankers. Maybe we should bring in someone like Chip Engelland. To at least try to solve shooting problems. OFC
I’ve accepted the fact that we’re a very mediocre team, capable of having a good night (especially if we hit 3’s) but also quite capable of losing to just about anybody (especially when those 3’s don’t drop, which seems to be more likely). I thought we played better yesterday than our loss to State or Wake or even our wins over Pitt or BC, but those cold stretches doomed us. Whitehead, aside from that electric move down the lane, was a disappearing act - how does a projected OAD (lottery pick, actually, at the beginning of the year) do that? Credit to Proctor, who I have previously panned, for stepping up his game, although his drives into traffic still make me cringe. Lively is also an enigma. Flip is a very good freshman, who still makes lots of freshman mistakes. Sadly, i doubt we get to see him as a sophomore, when those mistakes, like that spin move, behind the back dribble or lowering his shoulder, will be erased. Mitchell is a great role player, perhaps being expected to do too much as a freshman. If he stays, he’ll be a force next year. All in all, I’ve tempered my expectations, and while I’ll continue to watch every game, I’m not going to pull my hair out when we get spanked. And it kills me to say that, because for 36 years I’ve always expected a team capable of running the table.
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