The New Lounge

[Dattier]

The border and the economy are two different issues. You don’t think it’s good that border crossings have slowed to a trickle? Or were you a de facto open borders kind of Dem?
...Most Americans see this as more a case of Trump cleaning up Biden’s mess than a due process issue.

I'm not addressing certain things that I've deleted from your post as I've quoted it because I see it as largely anecdotal and no route forward w/o it devolving into nastiness. I would think you know at the very least I'm not afraid of nastiness or a "spin challenge," so I hope you'll accept my explanation in good faith.

I am philosophically an open borders guy. Repeat, PHILOSOPHICALLY. In practice, I know that's not realistic, and I agree that it is a good thing that our President has apparently slowed border crossings by a lot. He seems to have reigned in chaos there.

However, he has created chaos when it comes to how he is dealing with ICE detentions and deportations. If you get to use the singular example of Mahmoud Khalil as evidence of free speech hypocrisy on university campuses, I think it is valid to cite him as a singular example of due process denial. Those things are counterbalances. I don't know if you've heard of this guy Mussolini, who was the leader of Italy back in the day, but he promised to make the trains run on time. Apparently that was a real problem for all those Italian fellows back then. Well, he did it! He made the trains run on time. So he was pretty darn good when it came to efficiency. If you dig a little deeper, though -- and I don't mean to tell any tales out of school -- he was kind of a real jerk. Yeah, this Mussolini guy -- according to many people -- was a really bad dude. He did some things that -- according to many people -- were not cool. And you know what they did to that guy in the end? Well, it was pretty, pretty bad. I'll let you do your own research on that, but trust me, it was bad. Now, I don't think the United States of the Gulf of America is anything like Italy, even if we both think Christopher Columbus is awesome, but if that Mussolini dude could be really efficient and still end up like he did, I have an inkling of a thought of an idea wrapped in a vest that our President might just need to have a more developed style than just efficiency. But maybe that's just me.

 

[KDSTONE]

I'm not addressing certain things that I've deleted from your post as I've quoted it because I see it as largely anecdotal and no route forward w/o it devolving into nastiness. I would think you know at the very least I'm not afraid of nastiness or a "spin challenge," so I hope you'll accept my explanation in good faith.

I am philosophically an open borders guy. Repeat, PHILOSOPHICALLY. In practice, I know that's not realistic, and I agree that it is a good thing that our President has apparently slowed border crossings by a lot. He seems to have reigned in chaos there.

However, he has created chaos when it comes to how he is dealing with ICE detentions and deportations. If you get to use the singular example of Mahmoud Khalil as evidence of free speech hypocrisy on university campuses, I think it is valid to cite him as a singular example of due process denial. Those things are counterbalances. I don't know if you've heard of this guy Mussolini, who was the leader of Italy back in the day, but he promised to make the trains run on time. Apparently that was a real problem for all those Italian fellows back then. Well, he did it! He made the trains run on time. So he was pretty darn good when it came to efficiency. If you dig a little deeper, though -- and I don't mean to tell any tales out of school -- he was kind of a real jerk. Yeah, this Mussolini guy -- according to many people -- was a really bad dude. He did some things that -- according to many people -- were not cool. And you know what they did to that guy in the end? Well, it was pretty, pretty bad. I'll let you do your own research on that, but trust me, it was bad. Now, I don't think the United States of the Gulf of America is anything like Italy, even if we both think Christopher Columbus is awesome, but if that Mussolini dude could be really efficient and still end up like he did, I have an inkling of a thought of an idea wrapped in a vest that our President might just need to have a more developed style than just efficiency. But maybe that's just me.

So what one of the, if not the most popular Dem Presidents in our lifetimes, did at the border and how he ignored due process in the vast majority of cases is irrelevant because what Trump’s done stands as a singular example using logic that probably makes sense in your head.
Then you go on to compare Trump to Mussolini because even though Benito got the trains to run on time, he was a really bad dude. And I guess that means Trump is a really bad dude.

Trump hasn’t created chaos. The media is framing it that way, because they want to impeach him so bad they can’t stand it. I think you should be convicted of an actual crime before being shipped to a prison like the one Garcia is in, but at the same time this is sadly more common than we might think.
Now that the border crossings are under control I hope going forward due process will be honored and deportees will have their day in court.

 

[KDSTONE]

Not to put too fine a point on the matter, but it was repeated on this very message board recently that Biden couldn’t get the border under control because the Republicans wouldn’t pass sweeping legislation because Trump wanted to use the issue as a key part of his campaign. The second part may be true but as for the first part?
No new legislation yet Lo and Behold March 2025 reports the lowest border crossings in history. Oops.

 

[Dattier]

So what one of the, if not the most popular Dem Presidents in our lifetimes, did at the border and how he ignored due process in the vast majority of cases is irrelevant because what Trump’s done stands as a singular example using logic that probably makes sense in your head.
Then you go on to compare Trump to Mussolini because even though Benito got the trains to run on time, he was a really bad dude. And I guess that means Trump is a really bad dude.

Trump hasn’t created chaos. The media is framing it that way, because they want to impeach him so bad they can’t stand it. I think you should be convicted of an actual crime before being shipped to a prison like the one Garcia is in, but at the same time this is sadly more common than we might think.
Now that the border crossings are under control I hope going forward due process will be honored and deportees will have their day in court.

Uh, didn't mean to compare our President to Mussolini, exactly. I was just doing a bad Norm MacDonald impersonation.

There was much less coverage of how President Obama handled immigration. Unfair? Biased? Okay. Different times? Different style? Yeah, that, too. More than EIGHT FREAKIN' YEARS since he left office? Uh, yeah. There are things about President Obama I didn't like when he was in office, and there have been things I've learned since that I don't like, either. None of it was done with the same fanfare President Trump deliberately stirs up.

Which media is framing our President's actions as chaos? The WH press conferences I've seen have largely been softball questions from sycophants. Perhaps those questions seem entirely appropriate and normal to you. It sounds like you're accepting that the method of Kilmar Abrego Garcia's deportation was awful, which is an odd thing to pair with a complaint about madia framing. Like your stance on that debunked Amazon rumor about itemizing tariffs on invoices, it sounds like you're objecting to people being informed of things, not focusing on how those things themselves are objectionable.

And that final line, about how now you hope due process and day-in-court is honored? That's a Constitutional right, including for noncitizens. You should be demanding, not hoping, and you should have demanded it all along.

 

[BOOGIEMAN1914]

Not to put too fine a point on the matter, but it was repeated on this very message board recently that Biden couldn’t get the border under control because the Republicans wouldn’t pass sweeping legislation because Trump wanted to use the issue as a key part of his campaign. The second part may be true but as for the first part?
No new legislation yet Lo and Behold March 2025 reports the lowest border crossings in history. Oops.

i think w/ Biden in control, you had a chance and it was worth the trek, your best interest would be taken into account....Trump has def been a deterrent and to many that trek and expense aint worth what could happen to you upon arrival..??

 

[KDSTONE]

i think w/ Biden in control, you had a chance and it was worth the trek, your best interest would be taken into account....Trump has def been a deterrent and to many that trek and expense aint worth what could happen to you upon arrival..??

“Biden in control”. I know what you mean, but he was never in control.
Deterrent. Bingo

 

[KDSTONE]

Uh, didn't mean to compare our President to Mussolini, exactly. I was just doing a bad Norm MacDonald impersonation.

There was much less coverage of how President Obama handled immigration. Unfair? Biased? Okay. Different times? Different style? Yeah, that, too. More than EIGHT FREAKIN' YEARS since he left office? Uh, yeah. There are things about President Obama I didn't like when he was in office, and there have been things I've learned since that I don't like, either. None of it was done with the same fanfare President Trump deliberately stirs up.

Which media is framing our President's actions as chaos? The WH press conferences I've seen have largely been softball questions from sycophants. Perhaps those questions seem entirely appropriate and normal to you. It sounds like you're accepting that the method of Kilmar Abrego Garcia's deportation was awful, which is an odd thing to pair with a complaint about madia framing. Like your stance on that debunked Amazon rumor about itemizing tariffs on invoices, it sounds like you're objecting to people being informed of things, not focusing on how those things themselves are objectionable.

And that final line, about how now you hope due process and day-in-court is honored? That's a Constitutional right, including for noncitizens. You should be demanding, not hoping, and you should have demanded it all

Much less coverage? Try zero coverage. No constitutional crisis. No Dem Senators visiting El Salvador or Nicaragua, etc

Y’all didn’t care about due process for noncitizens when Obama or Clinton was President, so your faux outrage is performative at this point.
You’re constitutional scholars when it’s convenient but when good old Barack took out US citizens in a drone strike? Crickets.
Could you imagine the sh storm if Trump did that? It would be George Floyd 2.0
Yet again, you deliberately distort my position on the Amazon labels You say it’s a debunked rumor. Translation= Amazon realized it would open Pandora’s box so they’re disavowing the idea.
Newsflash: Obama was like two Presidents ago It’s not like I’m referencing Teddy Roosevelt