100% agree. The wholesale changing of the roster every year is frustrating and I agree that it affects how invested i am in the team, unfortunately. Most will leave yet they arent ready and in will come the next crop of one-year ( 8 months really) roster players. Maybe we get a couple back....but I hold little hope for that.
NCAA round of 32 official game day thread- Duke vs Tennessee
- Thread starter pisgah101
- Start date
Because it's Duke, and for some strange reason staying 4 years is seen as failure. We need to change the culture. Roach will have his degree, so it is understandable. Would love to have him back.
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Amazing with all the basketball commitments on his schedule that he was able to graduate in 3 years...I know kids with nothing but school to attend and it takes them 5! lol
I get where everyone is coming from when talking about the size of the kids. We couldn’t handle their physicality, bordering on bully ball.
Barnes is a smart coach too. He knows talent wise, Duke had more. He also knew that with Lively out there, it was 5 on 4. So what did he do right from the start? Attack Flip. Three of the fouls done to him were done by the same guy, and they were all early in the game. I’m still bitter they didn’t call at least one of those by Plavsic excessive.
Also, the lack of offensive ability by Lively caught up to us. In a game like yesterday, we couldn’t afford to be playing 5 on 4. Then with the disappearance of Whitehead, it made it 5 on 3.
Barnes is a smart coach too. He knows talent wise, Duke had more. He also knew that with Lively out there, it was 5 on 4. So what did he do right from the start? Attack Flip. Three of the fouls done to him were done by the same guy, and they were all early in the game. I’m still bitter they didn’t call at least one of those by Plavsic excessive.
Also, the lack of offensive ability by Lively caught up to us. In a game like yesterday, we couldn’t afford to be playing 5 on 4. Then with the disappearance of Whitehead, it made it 5 on 3.
It has changed a lot.
Fielding an entirely new team each year makes following your team much harder. It's made college sports harder to be a fan of.
I don't have a solution (totally understand athletes wanting to be PROS) and I know Scheyer has said he hopes for more multi-year guys.
But the shift in college sports has caused my (and many others) interest in the sport and our teams to taper off. Now, I really only watch the post-season. Still root for the guys but it's kind of a bummer. i'm sure i'm not alone
I hear you, but I watch every game, go to as many in Cameron as I can each year, and support the team. I love college basketball way too much despite all the changes I hate about it.
So the elbow that caused flips cut was a basketball play? It is not spud webb out there. What f'in basketball play calls for your elbow to be that high?
Listen, fudge packer started the whole Duke gets all the calls mantra nationally in 2001 (and if you know the whole story, him going off was absurd). I usually can admit most years Duke gets a game where they get an assist where i think the whisle was a little bit in our favor. Where is it this year contrasting with yesterday, at VT, and at UVA?
In NCAA basketball, stop blaming players for selling fouls (aka flopping). Yes they sell calls, but nine times out of ten, they actually are offensive fouls. But the refs do not call it unless it is sold. That is all on the refs. You have coaches out there (Huggy Bear, Pitino, Barnes) who foul the sh!t out of you then raise all holy hell if the foul count is different. Then all of a sudden they are allowed to be as physical as crap (see Barnes complaining about every foul of our loss in the round of 32 to Tenn. or you the numerous non calls after Huggy got a T in our round of 32 loss to WVU). That is on the officials. I do not blame them one bit ufor the Houston Auburn or MD WVU ft contest.
What stinks is march madness and the NIT is the only time of year the NCAA can do something with refs being independent contracters. But we dont care if your shite as long as you enforce some arbitrary rule de jour (like coaching box in 08), you'll get games. If those officials have not been told their services are not needed for the rest of the tournament yet the NCAA is even more fixed than I thought.
And what is the point of an official they can come in with comments and it is all some version of "the official got it right." Just once I want to hear "you know what, that was BS."
Listen, fudge packer started the whole Duke gets all the calls mantra nationally in 2001 (and if you know the whole story, him going off was absurd). I usually can admit most years Duke gets a game where they get an assist where i think the whisle was a little bit in our favor. Where is it this year contrasting with yesterday, at VT, and at UVA?
In NCAA basketball, stop blaming players for selling fouls (aka flopping). Yes they sell calls, but nine times out of ten, they actually are offensive fouls. But the refs do not call it unless it is sold. That is all on the refs. You have coaches out there (Huggy Bear, Pitino, Barnes) who foul the sh!t out of you then raise all holy hell if the foul count is different. Then all of a sudden they are allowed to be as physical as crap (see Barnes complaining about every foul of our loss in the round of 32 to Tenn. or you the numerous non calls after Huggy got a T in our round of 32 loss to WVU). That is on the officials. I do not blame them one bit ufor the Houston Auburn or MD WVU ft contest.
What stinks is march madness and the NIT is the only time of year the NCAA can do something with refs being independent contracters. But we dont care if your shite as long as you enforce some arbitrary rule de jour (like coaching box in 08), you'll get games. If those officials have not been told their services are not needed for the rest of the tournament yet the NCAA is even more fixed than I thought.
And what is the point of an official they can come in with comments and it is all some version of "the official got it right." Just once I want to hear "you know what, that was BS."
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I used to. I joined this board in 2006. The sport has changed so much you can hardly recognize it. I only tune in during the post season. Hate to admit it, and maybe it makes me less of a fan, but it's true
I hate what it’s become, paid mercenary players transferring constantly(Miami literally buys a team).Covid rule needs to go as it’s allowing 26 year olds in college. Don’t start me on the inconsistent refs, prolly the biggest issue. But on the flip side, the nba completely sucks so I’ll deal with it.
As a Spurs fan, I can concur that it does, in fact, suck. Watching your team tank to get a draft pick is way more difficult to deal with than what is happening in the college game right now.
I agree, but Gene or any of those other guys will never have the balls to say it.
Dariq was a HUGE disappointment and I'm not sure he ever stepped foot on campus mentally speaking. Seems like a nice kid, but ill always remember him as one of the biggest top 5 recruiting busts in Duke history.
My only hope is we can get Proctor and Mitchell to come back from 22 class, and hopefully two from the 23 class. At this point, a sophomore at Duke is a veteran
My only hope is we can get Proctor and Mitchell to come back from 22 class, and hopefully two from the 23 class. At this point, a sophomore at Duke is a veteran
Riq just had horrible luck with injuries and that really messed up the development. This years class and next were always said to be weaker due Covid messing up everything. Classes start getting regular/strong again in 2025- boogers twins /flagg class.
Injuries were certainly a factor, but that's a weak excuse in my opinion. Wish him the best, and I'll always root for the kid to be successful, but it's okay to say someone just wasn't that good.
Whitehead just seemed so tentative most of the year. We needed him to be an alpha and he wasn't. So Flip and Roach had to do too much. Injuries played a part, but I never saw that fire.
Absolutely fair and if anyone is expecting a Paulo/zion next year, not happening either. McCain will be a fan fav in no time though
Agree with everything here, Chris. I just get tired of the injury and he's got all the talent in the world play. Anyone who goes to a division 1 program has talent lol
Tbh next year is the year when we’re expected to get guys “back”. Power , Stewart, McCain are thought to be multi year guys.
We had 3 of the top 4 recruits and only 1 showed me anything all year. In my opinion, Whitehead was always a step slow. Seemed like he couldn't beat anyone off the dribble. Was it because he was tentative? Was he still injured in some way? Or was it because he couldn't adapt to playing against college players where everyone is good?
Lively was a freshman Mark Williams. Took a while to adapt and block shots without fouling. Really limited offensively with the exception of dunks. He should go the Mark Williams route but with everything going on with his mom, you can't blame him one bit.
Wish both of them luck in the future and especially Lively's mom.
Lively was a freshman Mark Williams. Took a while to adapt and block shots without fouling. Really limited offensively with the exception of dunks. He should go the Mark Williams route but with everything going on with his mom, you can't blame him one bit.
Wish both of them luck in the future and especially Lively's mom.
Could have really used Theo John yesterday. Lol We need some men on this team, even if through the portal. And its not all about freshman or upperclassmen when it comes to that. Banchero, Zion, Keels etc were men as freshmen.
This. I think Whitehead's injuries and Lively's family situation means these two have to go. I don't blame them one bit.
What does Whitehead do at an NBA level? He is a good shooter, but he is not that good. Plus he has durability issues. Seems like a 2 and done guy, but I know he is OAD. I just kept waiting to see this guy everyone was raving about. To me he would be a 2nd round guy. Too many question marks. With Lively you can see the potential and improvement. Flip and Proctor too.
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Chris, I think Whitehead is a 3 and D guy in the NBA. His shooting will improve at the next level and he plays good defense.
He will be in the G-league quickly. He’s not ready but he will go.
I'm not picking on the kid. He's good. But his explosiveness never returned. I was very surprised to not see this. He was basically a below the rim guy.
I’m not either, but he was a major bust.
Yes. So did Szcerbiak. He mentioned that he was 210 when he entered college and 240 when he left.
It is simply not the same game anymore with NIL deals keeping some kids in college and the transfer portal in combo with NIL letting teams reload. Can’t load up on top 10 freshman recruits who plan to go pro in a year and expect to compete against the top 15 on a consistent basis. Unless the money starts to poor in from billionaires.
Singler gained about 25 pounds in college. Goldwire was built like a football player when he graduated. Amile probably put on 25 pounds of muscle.
Some really good observations the last couple of pages. I appreciate those and the candor.
I don’t know the answer. Only have some speculations. But I would like to see us be able to recruit some kids who want to be at Duke; who want to learn from Scheyer and build a winning team/program. Rather than some kids who see Duke merely as a one year stepping stone to the NBA.
I don’t know whether there is an answer to that. But perhaps if some of these top ten recruits don’t get drafted in round one and linger in the G league Scheyer can use that to say, “you need to be committed for a year or two or three to develop your game and not go early.” Or get some guys who thought they were stars and are playing in Europe to get that message out there.
Build a strong NIL money backing so kids can make a good living while here and draw in some more physical vets. Nothing against Young or Grandison. Sure they did their best and all, but we can’t go that route anymore. Those guys were like 100-150 recruits and neither of them offered physical play or talent that many other vets have done for other teams.
Nigel Pack got a 2 year $800K deal (plus a car) to go to Miami. And Tshiebwe got $2 million in NIL deals to stay another year at UK!
I have no ideal what Duke’s NIL deals are but they want to compete at the highest level they are going to have to get at that level. If they are thinking $200K for a kid, that won’t do it. But they also can’t just throw money at a kid who isn’t highly competitive and a star.
I don’t know the answer. Only have some speculations. But I would like to see us be able to recruit some kids who want to be at Duke; who want to learn from Scheyer and build a winning team/program. Rather than some kids who see Duke merely as a one year stepping stone to the NBA.
I don’t know whether there is an answer to that. But perhaps if some of these top ten recruits don’t get drafted in round one and linger in the G league Scheyer can use that to say, “you need to be committed for a year or two or three to develop your game and not go early.” Or get some guys who thought they were stars and are playing in Europe to get that message out there.
Build a strong NIL money backing so kids can make a good living while here and draw in some more physical vets. Nothing against Young or Grandison. Sure they did their best and all, but we can’t go that route anymore. Those guys were like 100-150 recruits and neither of them offered physical play or talent that many other vets have done for other teams.
Nigel Pack got a 2 year $800K deal (plus a car) to go to Miami. And Tshiebwe got $2 million in NIL deals to stay another year at UK!
I have no ideal what Duke’s NIL deals are but they want to compete at the highest level they are going to have to get at that level. If they are thinking $200K for a kid, that won’t do it. But they also can’t just throw money at a kid who isn’t highly competitive and a star.
I'd just like kids to stick around for more than 2 years so I can actually miss them when they leave instead of looking back 5 years later and say "Oh yeah... he played at Duke I think; his name sounds familiar..."
Miami has a super fan named John Ruiz with Lifewallet that’s gets their nil stuff done. Unc gets bacot a mil. Haven’t seen any duke alumni associated with our nil. Don’t really think nil is going to do much for duke.
My wife is from KY and was a huge Cat fan until the influx of the one and done’s. Hard to bond with the players when they don’t stick around.
Like someone mentioned it gets tougher with the fact that you know it’ll be a brand new team next year. The total opposite was the case during the 1986-1994 time frame. This was a special group, they cared and really worked hard to get better, that cannot be overstated. They were fun to watch and despite the injuries achieved some very cool things.
27-9, 16-0 at home, ACC Champions, swept unc-chapel hill branch, had the fourth longest winning streak ever for a Duke team entering the NCAA’s. 9 in a row. Only the 1963, 1986 and 1999 teams won more than that going into the dance. Duke was 8-6 in the ACC at one point and finished 14-6. This was a very good and memorable season for Duke Basketball!
Yesterday’s game was one of those weird situations where all the stars line up against you. The injury to Mitchell discovered not long before tipoff, Roach with awful foul trouble, facing a team full of upperclassmen sumo wrestlers from a power league that’s well trained in “maul ball.” Cherry on top - weak officiating allowing them to get away with it.
Glad that Kentucky and Kansas are out. Along with you know who of course. I’d love to see Few finally get it done. We’ll see who stays and who comes in and then time will fly and it’ll be another Duke hoops journey all over again.
27-9, 16-0 at home, ACC Champions, swept unc-chapel hill branch, had the fourth longest winning streak ever for a Duke team entering the NCAA’s. 9 in a row. Only the 1963, 1986 and 1999 teams won more than that going into the dance. Duke was 8-6 in the ACC at one point and finished 14-6. This was a very good and memorable season for Duke Basketball!
Yesterday’s game was one of those weird situations where all the stars line up against you. The injury to Mitchell discovered not long before tipoff, Roach with awful foul trouble, facing a team full of upperclassmen sumo wrestlers from a power league that’s well trained in “maul ball.” Cherry on top - weak officiating allowing them to get away with it.
Glad that Kentucky and Kansas are out. Along with you know who of course. I’d love to see Few finally get it done. We’ll see who stays and who comes in and then time will fly and it’ll be another Duke hoops journey all over again.
Seems like our young teams are especially vulnerable to physical, upperclassman teams. Last year we had upperclassmen to weather the storm when we played Arkansas and TT. I think Mitchell would have made the game closer, but I still think we would have lost. We will never know. I knew when everyone picked us for the final four we were ****** lol. Maybe it got to their heads. We are a young team after all.
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Used to watch every minute of every game. I loved investing in guys like Scheyer, Redick, Jason Williams, etc.
As has been said countless times in this thread, the fact that the roster seemingly starts over year after year is bad for the sport and bad for the fans. This season, I watched the UNC games, ACC Tournament, and the two NCAA Tournament games. The same can be said for virtually all of my friends as well - level of interest and attention has reduced drastically.
The eligibility rules need to change - should be at least closer to college baseball. The product is nowhere near as good as it used to be.
As has been said countless times in this thread, the fact that the roster seemingly starts over year after year is bad for the sport and bad for the fans. This season, I watched the UNC games, ACC Tournament, and the two NCAA Tournament games. The same can be said for virtually all of my friends as well - level of interest and attention has reduced drastically.
The eligibility rules need to change - should be at least closer to college baseball. The product is nowhere near as good as it used to be.
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