For what it's worth.

[skysdad]

For quite while now there's been a lot of bickering and childish behavior going on with this board. If I didn't know better I would think I'm over at thr or R.R. One would think that it's coming from trolls or posters from another board just to get something started but it's not the case because it's coming from several regulars and long time posters who at times can be positive posters. It's increasing and it bothers me to see what was once a great board to discuss Duke basketball and some interesting off topics becoming a different kind of board. I've been posting here since 2006 and have more than 33,000 post. The reason I bring those numbers up aren't because I think I know it all but because there are some great posters who if they were still posting would have more post and were here way before I was. Some of those posters have are the reason I started posting. The main reason they left was because of the immaturity , bickering and child like behavior that is going on. This is fact. Some of them are my face book friends that I've made a personal plea to come back to the board and the reason they gave for not coming back is the direction this board is headed. We are all Duke fans and stand on solid ground in that regard. I know that sometimes difference of opinions occur and that's fine as long as we can discuss things in a civil adult like manner. But it seems like every thread that comes along the bickering goes along with it. Our mods can't ban anyone for bickering. The things that are bothering me stay within the bounds of the boards standards. The only thing our mods can do is lock the thread and that is happening more and more. I wouldn't doubt with the way things are going this tread will be locked before too long. Even the good threads are getting locked. It's easy to hide behind a keyboard and talk to each other with so much disrespect. I can only speak for myself but the reason i post is because I love Duke and all of sports. It's a stress relief for me also. I've mad a lot of friends who I have become to love and respect. This board means a lot to me and I will not stop posting but I will not get caught up in the direction this board is headed. It is a totally different board today than it was 2-3 years ago. Before any of you respond or reply to my comments take a few minutes to think about what I have said and where you stand on this board. Are you having fun or do you stay frustrated and angry with people you have never even met. I have a suggestion if a fellow poster gets to you so much then just ignore them. I have no doubt that some of you have a problem with me. Just ignore me please. Think about it all of you. This is just my 2 cents worth which really isn't worth 2 cents any more but at one time it was worth 2 cents. OFC

 

[FearTheBeard]

I have three rules I go by on this board:

1. Don’t discuss politics
2. Don’t discuss religion
3. Don’t argue with Duke fans

I will argue with rival fans all day everyday but there isn’t a Duke poster on this board that can say they’ve been in a heated debate with me. I don’t do it. I’ll state my opinion on a topic, but I won’t attack another Duke fan’s opinion. Lastly, no personal attacks on fellow Duke fans. Ever.

Not saying I have the answer, but it may be good advice for a few.

 

[TheDude1]

While some older posters do sometimes get into it, I can’t help but feel that the majority of the friction is caused by some new posters from the last year or two who can be a bit abrasive and quick tongued and very “interwebz” in their interaction style. That, plus a bit of a trend of “ganging up”, both in terms of actual responses and even as perceived through “likes” makes things a little tense. I almost wonder if it is reflective of the general surliness of the nation right now...?

Best Duke board in terms of courtesy and maturity is DBR. Comes from a combo of... a lot of Duke grads, which tends to support reasoned and intelligent conversation among people with a tangible connection and an inherent desire to reflect well on Duke.... super aggressive moderation, which quickly cuts off personal conflict... and a certain veteran leadership even among the posters that simply does not allow for cocksure troll a-hole types to last long, and where you are expected to treat the forums like the local bar full of regulars; you wouldn’t just show up one day and be a loud jackass, or you won’t be welcome. DBR doesn’t have the spontaneity or combativeness or other forums, but still... it has never devolved into trollish, cliquey infighting. That’s something to strive for.

Plus, Shane and Jay have posted there, so...

 

[Jnood]

I'm just impressed that people find things to argue about in the offseason, where most things are pure speculation. By impressed, I mean it's dumb and annoying, reading the same crap over and over!

 

[germantondevil]

I honestly believe it is just the new society that we live in that has changed drastically over the past few years. I ve seen so much change in tension and personality working at a huge corporation. It just filters into places like this where we used to come and talk sensible about Duke bball. Now everyone gets offended so easy about any statement or opinion shared anymore. We live in a society with eggshell feelings anymore.

 

[pisgah101]

While some older posters do sometimes get into it, I can’t help but feel that the majority of the friction is caused by some new posters from the last year or two who can be a bit abrasive and quick tongued and very “interwebz” in their interaction style. That, plus a bit of a trend of “ganging up”, both in terms of actual responses and even as perceived through “likes” makes things a little tense. I almost wonder if it is reflective of the general surliness of the nation right now...?

Best Duke board in terms of courtesy and maturity is DBR. Comes from a combo of... a lot of Duke grads, which tends to support reasoned and intelligent conversation among people with a tangible connection and an inherent desire to reflect well on Duke.... super aggressive moderation, which quickly cuts off personal conflict... and a certain veteran leadership even among the posters that simply does not allow for cocksure troll a-hole types to last long, and where you are expected to treat the forums like the local bar full of regulars; you wouldn’t just show up one day and be a loud jackass, or you won’t be welcome. DBR doesn’t have the spontaneity or combativeness or other forums, but still... it has never devolved into trollish, cliquey infighting. That’s something to strive for.

Plus, Shane and Jay have posted there, so...

Well Sky if your thread goes to heck this post will deff cause it.


I don't get mad on a message board and "take it home" with me but I can deff see how some would. A lot of division on here for sure but not all Duke fans are created equal either. I have an opinion and many on here do and most of you know where I and many others stand. One of the "problems" here if you want to call it that is many like to come here to vent and when they do others want to belittle their argument and act like they're idiotic. Now I'm not trying to take up for one group over others but if you step out of your respective "clique" as it's been referred on here you can see where they're coming from. Do some step out of bounds? Sure but from what I've seen we had an olive branch moment yesterday and I think things are fine right now. We also have some instigators that like to stir things up so hopefully they'll shut up but I doubt it. If people dont want to post here because of the bickering then let them not post though. Posters come and go but Duke is here to stay.


*i posted this fast cause I'm in a hurry so if my grammar isn't accurate don't be a police

 

[IPSYCHOSIS]

The immediate ganging up picking , bullying, belittling, attacking ones opinions or visit here doesn’t help much either . Judging to quickly and so worried about a potential troll because they’re a new poster or visitor isn’t helping . Imo there’s a sense of entitlement here based off being here longer or something . knowing more and always right. Nobody’s up to the standards.its like the older posters just want the board to themselves and don’t trust anybody or something. No offense . (Not everybody). Some people like you say just come to vent and get stress relief and people overreact and take it wrong and go into that slick tounge mode. Then it’s like a pack of wolves jumping in . (not talking about you) (or me) Just my experience since I’ve joined . Guys don’t stand much of a chance unless theyre in the older group. I agree everybody needs to do better. Sensitivity needs to go bye bye. This is a message board . People need to keep it respectable but have fun also. Stop the picking . Stop taking things personal . Stop judging . Sometimes this board gets taken to serious. We’re all duke fans and not the same .....(in no way speaking directly to you) I agree with the ignore button which you probally won’t even see this lol . It doesn’t bother me personally as much as seeing somebody else get attacked lol. I can take it . I’ll probally just take some time off. This board just gets to serious and stressful sometimes.

 

[TheDude1]

I honestly believe it is just the new society that we live in that has changed drastically over the past few years. I ve seen so much change in tension and personality working at a huge corporation. It just filters into places like this where we used to come and talk sensible about Duke bball. Now everyone gets offended so easy about any statement or opinion shared anymore. We live in a society with eggshell feelings anymore.

Hm. That's funny; I don't see anything about eggshell feelings or anyone getting offended hurting the forum. There are definitely people who think that bashing of Duke guys should be kept to a polite minimum, but that's about it. I think the issue lies FAR more in a general lack of civility among some posters. Part of that is the ways of the internet. Part of that is a few personalities. Part of that is the way things over the past few years have gotten more stressed on a bigger stage in our country. Part of that is the dramatic change we've seen in everything Duke over the last four or five years, and how difficult it is for people to adapt.

The immediate ganging up picking , bullying, belittling, attacking ones opinions or visit here doesn’t help much either . Judging to quickly and so worried about a potential troll because they’re a new poster or visitor isn’t helping . Imo there’s a sense of entitlement here based off being here longer or something . knowing more and always right. Nobody’s up to the standards.its like the older posters just want the board to themselves and don’t trust anybody or something. No offense . (Not everybody). Some people like you say just come to vent and get stress relief and people overreact and take it wrong and go into that slick tounge mode. Then it’s like a pack of hyenas jumping in . (not talking about you) (or me) Just my experience since I’ve joined . Guys don’t stand much of a chance unless theyre in the older group. I agree everybody needs to do better. Sensitivity needs to go bye bye. This is a message board . People need to keep it respectable but have fun also. Stop the picking . Stop taking things personal . Stop judging . Sometimes this board gets taken to serious. We’re all duke fans and not the same .....(in no way speaking directly to you) I agree with the ignore button which you probally won’t even see this lol . It doesn’t bother me personally as much as seeing somebody else get attacked lol. I can take it . I’ll probally just take some time off. This board just gets to serious and stressful sometimes.

IPsy, to be fair, you came in like a grammatically-challenged-house-on-fire... in a world of crazy trolls and all of that, I think some of what you faced/face was maybe a bit expected

 

[IPSYCHOSIS]

Hm. That's funny; I don't see anything about eggshell feelings or anyone getting offended hurting the forum. There are definitely people who think that bashing of Duke guys should be kept to a polite minimum, but that's about it. I think the issue lies FAR more in a general lack of civility among some posters. Part of that is the ways of the internet. Part of that is a few personalities. Part of that is the way things over the past few years have gotten more stressed on a bigger stage in our country. Part of that is the dramatic change we've seen in everything Duke over the last four or five years, and how difficult it is for people to adapt.



IPsy, to be fair, you came in like a grammatically-challenged-house-on-fire... in a world of crazy trolls and all of that, I think some of what you faced/face was maybe a bit expected

Hahahah you’re right! That post isn’t intended to be directly my situation though . Its what I’ve seen as well. I don’t take anything personal on this board unless it’s seeing someone get bullied. I can’t take that . Rather people just shoot at me. That’s my personality all through being a kid , in highschool , Whole life. I got in so many fights in school for sticking up for kids . Got my butt whooped 1 time hahah, but it’s just a pet peeve I have .I can’t stand it. I can take it. I don’t do it.

 

[Mac9192]

I too think when a poster that's basically new to the board comes in with anything other than love for how the team is playing, they're immediately scolded. This makes it worse sometimes. Not saying sometimes that the poster isn't wrong. I love Duke basketball, and probably the hardest part for me to accept is that fans of the same team can have such different views. I mean some of these views I've never heard before, and I live 2 hours west of Durham around Duke and Hole fans. As you all know, I'll debate anyone over the team. I need to reign it in at times though.
The different views need to be accepted, and if debated, it should all be over the issue at hand. It's not, and it's not just the "new" posters causing this. Just because an avatar says "recruit" doesn't mean that person just started pulling for Duke.
I want Duke to do well this season, as I have for a long time, but the last couple seasons haven't been fun because of the hype given, and honestly, the way the board reacts to the hype.
Our last three recruiting classes are all looked at as better than the previous one. It's seen as ok to think that, which everyone is entitled to their opinion, yet doesn't seem to be accepted to possibly not think so.
Moving forward, quite a few need to keep it civil, and keep the curse words off the screen. I'll do my part.

 

[DukeDenver]

I have three rules I go by on this board:
1. Don’t discuss politics
2. Don’t discuss religion
3. Don’t argue with Duke fans

Darn, I was just about to share a story about how much Jay Bilas loves Trump’s policies on Islam. I guess I’ll just save that discussion for after our first loss next season.

 

[christophero]

I don't mind a little friendly dissent, but when arguments get personal and go on for pages I just log off. It's really not entertaining for anyone to read (at least for me) and completely goes off topic.

 

[Canadian Dukie]

Being one of the newer posters here (less than 500 posts) I sometimes feel uncomfortable posting,waiting for someone to jump all over my post,i'm not the most knowledgeable basketball guy,just a Duke basketball fan.I do however pay attention to posts made by the basketball gurus in hopes of upping my game.When the bickering starts,i tend to tune out,or look at another thread (at least till the bickering starts on that one),the funny thing is that we all have one thing in common,but even that generally leads to negative distractions

 

[DukeDenver]

Being one of the newer posters here (less than 500 posts) I sometimes feel uncomfortable posting,waiting for someone to jump all over my post,i'm not the most knowledgeable basketball guy,just a Duke basketball fan.I do however pay attention to posts made by the basketball gurus in hopes of upping my game.When the bickering starts,i tend to tune out,or look at another thread (at least till the bickering starts on that one),the funny thing is that we all have thing in common,but even that generally leads to negative distractions

Just start a story that you're @Showenuff 's cousin and say you cut @OldasdirtDevil 's grass for him. You'll get instant cred on here.

 

[Voldukie]

It is not an issue isolated to this forum. The world of 2018 does not communicate or discuss; they argue and defend flags.. Watch FoxNews, CNN, MSNBC etc anytime after 5pm and visualize my point. There is no civil discussion, only opponents waiting on their turn to yell.

 

[christophero]

That's why I liked Charlie Rose so much and was saddened by his fall from grace. He actually listened to the people he was interviewing, which is something of a lost art nowadays.

 

[dukiejay]

I learned a long time ago that most things aren't black and white....that's whether we're talking politics, religion, sports or Duke basketball.

Take this past season, for example. It's fair to say Grayson struggled some or that Marvin was pretty bad defensively. It's alright to acknowledge there was a steep learning curve for Trevon and he made foolish mistakes at times, or that Gary's defense took a big step back going to the zone. There were troubles keeping Wendell on the court because we saw him commit silly fouls or maybe the guys on the bench didn't always get the minutes we thought they deserved.

Where I think most of the bickering comes from is hard-line stances without listening to any reasoning. I mean, seriously, there were people who thought Jayson Tatum shouldn't play two season's ago. Others thought we were a better team without Marvin. People thought that because Grayson had some struggles he was why we didn't reach our goals. Jordan Goldwire should start for last season's team. The list really is endless....but hopefully people see my point.

I'll reiterate again what I've said for years now....I don't think anyone likes the one-and-done, and I don't think anyone likes seeing how it's changed the perception of the Duke program. I love Grayson Allen. I hate to think we might not see another like him, or a Quinn Cook, for a long time. I also have to be capable of admitting that it probably diminishes the ultimate goal....but it certainly doesn't take it away, either.

In life we face changes every day. Some are good, some are bad and some are based on our perceptions. As fans, no matter if it's 2007 or 2017, we're going to be excited for our team. That should be ok, too. I don't have an issue with people being excited or incredibly negative....but if they don't expect some push back they're just not seeing things clearly.

 

[Showenuff]

Alright, my turn. I don't think any old time posters here don't already know exactly how I feel on the subject but I'll fire it out there anyway. If you ever met me in person, you probably wouldn't take my posts so hard when I disagree with something you posted. I love everybody, seriously, until you do me wrong, i'll be your friend til the end and back you through the fire. That's in real life, not just me posting. If i'm with you, and you need help, it's there. I am a strong willed guy, and am very poor at backing down, again , real life and posting. I don't try to be a different entity posting and I've never changed my posting name to try and look like something else. I'm me. I know we try to keep cursing off the board and I do try, hell, dj has reprimanded me more times than most of you know in pm's. But , as I just said, I post just like I talk. Damn's , hell's and an occasional shit is just in there, but i don't fire them at you to make it personal. I've got a lot of friends at this board, not just posting here, a lot of us text and even call one another a lot. I would never put my membership at risk here because I love it here. It's a neat outlet when you get a minute to share in your love for this team. "Love for this team" ....now that's where i'm going. I know a few new posters here think I can't accept criticism of our team and players. Not true. I can. I can't take posters calling players trash, garbage, or we should have never recruited them. That's BS,and it's even harder when the best Coach in the nation gets discussed as washed up, over etc. Then I do get irritable . Cause I AM a real Duke fan. I've followed them forever. Respect our coach and his morals. I send a little money to Iron Dukes, not because I'm some rich guy, because I love the team and I feel like a part of it. And the past month has been riddled with the argument that we should lower expectations. I'm sorry guys, I can't do that. It's not in me. We are Duke and we should have HIGH expectations EVERY year. I think most of us do. I'm not going to stop being excited over fear we may lose out early. Hell that's part of the fun.
At any rate, if I've offended some of you, I 100% apologize for that. I don't mean to upset anyone. And the next time we meet, you TELL me I offended you, and I'll buy you a beer and try to make it right. At the end of the day, I'm looking for some friends,
I hope me arguing with mac and hart didn't cost me any. Show.

 

[Showenuff]

Good God, I look like DSouthr with all that, LOL!

 

[IPSYCHOSIS]

Duke and Blue hahaha. My Gf got 2 cats but i got to name them and get collars.....with a baby on the way we got a little Duke family brewing! lmao

 

[christophero]

Perhaps what had made people a bit more sensitive is the outside perception of the program. It has for me although I try to ignore it. But there is the perception out there, that I don't agree with, that we have sold our soul as a program. Just read the comments on any article about Duke. Every year has become championship or bust and people are just reveling in our shortcomings. I know it comes with success but it is hard to read about sometimes. I guess I just shouldn't read the comments, ha.

 

[IPSYCHOSIS]

Wow i don’t know how to post pictures forever now!!

 

[Showenuff]

I just laugh at other programs downing Duke. All you REALLY have to do, is look at our overall success, how we got there and the current incoming class. Laugh on haters.

 

[crazyduke3]

I feel like the quality of the board has gone down for sure the past two-three years. But I've been coming here since 2007-8. I just love this board and the team we pull for.

When you can get out of the absolutes it's better. As others have said, saying we need better defense is fine. Saying a player is sorry and can't wait till they leave is not.

On the other hand, we have to respond to posters well also. Sometimes our boys play like dirt and it frustrates the fans. They come here and vent a lil more than they should, but that doesn't mean they should go to the woodshed either.

Finally, just because somebody doesn't constantly post a critique about the team, doesn't make them a blind homer who accepts the bad. They don't deserve venom either.

God bless folks!

 

[dukesince91]

Alright, my turn. I don't think any old time posters here don't already know exactly how I feel on the subject but I'll fire it out there anyway. If you ever met me in person, you probably wouldn't take my posts so hard when I disagree with something you posted. I love everybody, seriously, until you do me wrong, i'll be your friend til the end and back you through the fire. That's in real life, not just me posting. If i'm with you, and you need help, it's there. I am a strong willed guy, and am very poor at backing down, again , real life and posting. I don't try to be a different entity posting and I've never changed my posting name to try and look like something else. I'm me. I know we try to keep cursing off the board and I do try, hell, dj has reprimanded me more times than most of you know in pm's. But , as I just said, I post just like I talk. Damn's , hell's and an occasional shit is just in there, but i don't fire them at you to make it personal. I've got a lot of friends at this board, not just posting here, a lot of us text and even call one another a lot. I would never put my membership at risk here because I love it here. It's a neat outlet when you get a minute to share in your love for this team. "Love for this team" ....now that's where i'm going. I know a few new posters here think I can't accept criticism of our team and players. Not true. I can. I can't take posters calling players trash, garbage, or we should have never recruited them. That's BS,and it's even harder when the best Coach in the nation gets discussed as washed up, over etc. Then I do get irritable . Cause I AM a real Duke fan. I've followed them forever. Respect our coach and his morals. I send a little money to Iron Dukes, not because I'm some rich guy, because I love the team and I feel like a part of it. And the past month has been riddled with the argument that we should lower expectations. I'm sorry guys, I can't do that. It's not in me. We are Duke and we should have HIGH expectations EVERY year. I think most of us do. I'm not going to stop being excited over fear we may lose out early. Hell that's part of the fun.
At any rate, if I've offended some of you, I 100% apologize for that. I don't mean to upset anyone. And the next time we meet, you TELL me I offended you, and I'll buy you a beer and try to make it right. At the end of the day, I'm looking for some friends,
I hope me arguing with mac and hart didn't cost me any. Show.

I wasn't going to post any more until October, but I appreciate this thread Sky started. Oh and by the way, Showenuff you can buy me a beer even though you've never offended me.

 

[sheyduke]

We all get along difference of opinions happen but we’re still all Duke fans in the end.

 

[OldasdirtDevil]

Just start a story that you're @Showenuff 's cousin and say you cut @OldasdirtDevil 's grass for him. You'll get instant cred on here.

I don't know about here, but if you cut my grass...you'll get instant cred from me! But I'll guarantee you'll only cut it once...if you're tough enough to get through it!

OFC

 

[OldasdirtDevil]

You ain't seen nothin' yet! Just wait until Duke sucks one of these days...and yes, it will happen...hopefully not for long, but it will happen.
Still, some posters need a place to vent, and I can understand that...I was young once also.

OFC

 

[Showenuff]

I wasn't going to post any more until October, but I appreciate this thread Sky started. Oh and by the way, Showenuff you can buy me a beer even though you've never offended me.

I’d hope to someday my friend.

 

[SoCal_Dukie3]

Good God, I look like DSouthr with all that, LOL!

No no no, you made sense and had good grammar. Definitely better than DSouthr!

 

[SoCal_Dukie3]

you all suck. That's it.

 

[hpnole]

Actually , of the three sites that I look at, this one is probably the most civil. I have never looked at the tarhole or UK site. But, of this site, the ND and FSU sites, by far , this one is the most civil. ND gets a lot of trolls from Michigan and at times FSU and Clemson , that go there just to piss them off. The FSU site actually has several Duke basketball fans on it , I see some of them on here from time to time.

 

[hart2chesson]

Debate and/or arguing is part and parcel of a message board. Its bound to happen. I think part of it as a longtime Duke fan is the changes we've seen over the last several years. The one and done growth has folks divided. I think also high expectations and subsequent failure to achieve those goals has triggered more in-fighting as well. For instance you'd be hard pressed to find many of the so-called experts who didnt have Duke in the final four the last two years.

Nonetheless I love our school, program, coach we're so lucky to have etc. I have strong views, and dont mind in the least having my views questioned. The only part that bothers me is when someone gets personal with me, and resorts to namecalling or condescension in their opposing views. Oh well, I'm done- are we still going to have the meet-up? "Food Fight!!!!" OFC

 

[skysdad]

Debate and/or arguing is part and parcel of a message board. Its bound to happen. I think part of it as a longtime Duke fan is the changes we've seen over the last several years. The one and done growth has folks divided. I think also high expectations and subsequent failure to achieve those goals has triggered more in-fighting as well. For instance you'd be hard pressed to find many of the so-called experts who didnt have Duke in the final four the last two years.

Nonetheless I love our school, program, coach we're so lucky to have etc. I have strong views, and dont mind in the least having my views questioned. The only part that bothers me is when someone gets personal with me, and resorts to namecalling or condescension in their opposing views. Oh well, I'm done- are we still going to have the meet-up? "Food Fight!!!!" OFC

Debating and civil arguing is normal. The child like behavior is what motivated me to start this thread. We talk about how silly and unreasonable our friends over at thr are but we seem to becoming more like them. OFC

 

[QC Dukie]

Debate and/or arguing is part and parcel of a message board. Its bound to happen. I think part of it as a longtime Duke fan is the changes we've seen over the last several years. The one and done growth has folks divided. I think also high expectations and subsequent failure to achieve those goals has triggered more in-fighting as well. For instance you'd be hard pressed to find many of the so-called experts who didnt have Duke in the final four the last two years.

Nonetheless I love our school, program, coach we're so lucky to have etc. I have strong views, and dont mind in the least having my views questioned. The only part that bothers me is when someone gets personal with me, and resorts to namecalling or condescension in their opposing views. Oh well, I'm done- are we still going to have the meet-up? "Food Fight!!!!" OFC

First annual DI message board Pig Pickin n Brawl.......

 

[Mac9192]

First annual DI message board Pig Pickin n Brawl.......

Datt will lead us in prayer, followed by Show flushing my head down the toilet. Then maybe he'll buy me a beer.

 

[hart2chesson]

Debating and civil arguing is normal. The child like behavior is what motivated me to start this thread. We talk about how silly and unreasonable our friends over at thr are but we seem to becoming more like them. OFC

Just hit that "IGNORE" button like you said in your original thread. Probably be your best friend in those situations, because a leopard's spots arent going to change. Some folks are just conditioned unfortunately to hit below the belt.

OFC

 

[sheyduke]

Datt will lead us in prayer, followed by Show flushing my head down the toilet. Then maybe he'll buy me a beer.

I still have one of those hard hat beer funnels.
Holds two so y’all can each share one. I’ll buy but I only drink imported or micro brewed. I like a variety lol

 

[skysdad]

Just hit that "IGNORE" button like you said in your original thread. Probably be your best friend in those situations, because a leopard's spots arent going to change. Some folks are just conditioned unfortunately to hit below the belt.

OFC

You are correct. OFC

 

[PixelDevil]

I don’t mind the fighting, but then again, I’m a sadist. Carry on ladies.