***DUKE VS SOUTHERN OFFICIAL GAMEDAY THREAD***

[Dattier]

Positives...
* Great to see Wendell break out and lead.
* Bags picked up where he left off.
* They both had double-doubles.
* I've been a little concerned w/ how heavily Gary tends toward 3s. I've been wanting to see him mix it up more. Having 10 rebounds from his position qualifies for me, and for a freshman hose shot is off to find other ways to contribute is pretty awesome.
* Win, duh. That's the biggest. For a young team to find a way to win ugly when they couldn't win pretty is pretty significant. It'll be way, way harder to do that at Miami, but learning it vs Southern is a start.

K's radio postgame helped me w/ perspective about the negatives. NCAA rules meant they'd had to take 2 days in a row off between MSU and last night. They got in a practice early yesterday morning, and K talked about being able to predict quality of play from quality of practice. He wasn't happy about how we played by any means, but he seemed more animated about the "stupid" NCAA rule. He was really pretty chill. Not your Grant-gets-his-nose-broke K at all. This is a really different team, but it's also a really different K. This is a young team, and he's patient and understanding w/o compromising high standards. He's always been a master of motivation and adjustment, but it's amazing how he seems to keep getting better at that.

Negatives...
* So clearly it was just an ugly game where we were out of sync.
* Grayson, Grayson, and Grayson. As our senior, as our captain, as our leader on the court, he has to be consistent. He has to be the one who is more immune to external conditions. In the grand scheme of things, perhaps it's sort of harsh to say that about someone who is still just 22, but he deals with far worse pressure that's far less warranted or welcome. He wants the pressure of being our senior captain, and more often than not, he'll rise to it. He didn't last night, which has to be an anomaly if we're aspiring to winning championships this season (and oh, are we ever).

 

[pisgah101]

Positives...
* Great to see Wendell break out and lead.
* Bags picked up where he left off.
* They both had double-doubles.
* I've been a little concerned w/ how heavily Gary tends toward 3s. I've been wanting to see him mix it up more. Having 10 rebounds from his position qualifies for me, and for a freshman hose shot is off to find other ways to contribute is pretty awesome.
* Win, duh. That's the biggest. For a young team to find a way to win ugly when they couldn't win pretty is pretty significant. It'll be way, way harder to do that at Miami, but learning it vs Southern is a start.

K's radio postgame helped me w/ perspective about the negatives. NCAA rules meant they'd had to take 2 days in a row off between MSU and last night. They got in a practice early yesterday morning, and K talked about being able to predict quality of play from quality of practice. He wasn't happy about how we played by any means, but he seemed more animated about the "stupid" NCAA rule. He was really pretty chill. Not your Grant-gets-his-nose-broke K at all. This is a really different team, but it's also a really different K. This is a young team, and he's patient and understanding w/o compromising high standards. He's always been a master of motivation and adjustment, but it's amazing how he seems to keep getting better at that.

Negatives...
* So clearly it was just an ugly game where we were out of sync.
* Grayson, Grayson, and Grayson. As our senior, as our captain, as our leader on the court, he has to be consistent. He has to be the one who is more immune to external conditions. In the grand scheme of things, perhaps it's sort of harsh to say that about someone who is still just 22, but he deals with far worse pressure that's far less warranted or welcome. He wants the pressure of being our senior captain, and more often than not, he'll rise to it. He didn't last night, which has to be an anomaly if we're aspiring to winning championships this season (and oh, are we ever).

This is a good post. Almost as good as Gary's stats n stuff (I'm totally kidding you actually added substance)

Outside of that do you or anyone else know if that rule is because of travel or what? Seems like a crazy one to have

 

[jcdevilfan]

I understand guys have off nights but Grayson just looked a little off tonight. Not just the 10 points, but something seemed different with him. Maybe it was from his dynamic game the other day, and he was just tired or something.

Mac, good post and I agree. Just looking at his eyes, he did look tired and maybe even a little ill. When I saw him in an interview before and after the MSU game, he sounded like he had a cold, and my first thought was I hope he isn't getting what Bolden had?! I have been hoping that it didn't spread through the team, and so far it seems like only Grayson. Let's hope he recovers quickly and the team is spared getting sick.
Other than that, even though the game was hard to watch, we still got the win and the film room should be buzzing with activity today!
Go Duke!
OFC

 

[dukiejay]

This is a good post. Almost as good as Gary's stats n stuff (I'm totally kidding you actually added substance)

Outside of that do you or anyone else know if that rule is because of travel or what? Seems like a crazy one to have

So technically they weren’t required to take two days off, but you are required to give the kids one day a week off. If you can’t give the kids a day off one week, you must give them two days off the week prior of after. (And travel days don’t count as a day off.)

Long story short, from Monday to Sunday next week Duke could play four games....Monday vs Furman, then Thursday, Friday and Sunday in the PK80 tournament. Tuesday is travel, Wednesday they want to practice when they get west and Saturday they want a practice between games.

K said they’re in the midst of nine games in 20 days....just a busy time so they planned accordingly. Then the following week they have two more games including at Indiana. This was the plan that worked best.

 

[LTDukeFan]

Positives...
* Great to see Wendell break out and lead.
* Bags picked up where he left off.
* They both had double-doubles.
* I've been a little concerned w/ how heavily Gary tends toward 3s. I've been wanting to see him mix it up more. Having 10 rebounds from his position qualifies for me, and for a freshman hose shot is off to find other ways to contribute is pretty awesome.
* Win, duh. That's the biggest. For a young team to find a way to win ugly when they couldn't win pretty is pretty significant. It'll be way, way harder to do that at Miami, but learning it vs Southern is a start.

K's radio postgame helped me w/ perspective about the negatives. NCAA rules meant they'd had to take 2 days in a row off between MSU and last night. They got in a practice early yesterday morning, and K talked about being able to predict quality of play from quality of practice. He wasn't happy about how we played by any means, but he seemed more animated about the "stupid" NCAA rule. He was really pretty chill. Not your Grant-gets-his-nose-broke K at all. This is a really different team, but it's also a really different K. This is a young team, and he's patient and understanding w/o compromising high standards. He's always been a master of motivation and adjustment, but it's amazing how he seems to keep getting better at that.

Negatives...
* So clearly it was just an ugly game where we were out of sync.
* Grayson, Grayson, and Grayson. As our senior, as our captain, as our leader on the court, he has to be consistent. He has to be the one who is more immune to external conditions. In the grand scheme of things, perhaps it's sort of harsh to say that about someone who is still just 22, but he deals with far worse pressure that's far less warranted or welcome. He wants the pressure of being our senior captain, and more often than not, he'll rise to it. He didn't last night, which has to be an anomaly if we're aspiring to winning championships this season (and oh, are we ever).

I will add another positive. It seems K is truly using his bench more. Hope that trend continues.

 

[pisgah101]

So technically they weren’t required to take two days off, but you are required to give the kids one day a week off. If you can’t give the kids a day off one week, you must give them two days off the week prior of after. (And travel days don’t count as a day off.)

Long story short, from Monday to Sunday next week Duke could play four games....Monday vs Furman, then Thursday, Friday and Sunday in the PK80 tournament. Tuesday is travel, Wednesday they want to practice when they get west and Saturday they want a practice between games.

K said they’re in the midst of nine games in 20 days....just a busy time so they planned accordingly. Then the following week they have two more games including at Indiana. This was the plan that worked best.

Thanks!

 

[duke198025]

If people stopped thinking of Bolden as a top 15 recruit then they'd be more accepting of his play. He's not been sharp or "good", but he's seemed much more active and engaged this year. He missed some put backs last night on back to back feeds to him. He hasn't had those opportunities since high school. They don't need him to be the top 15 recruit. They just need him to give some quality minutes at the 5 every game. I think he is capable of that.

 

[Dattier]

If people stopped thinking of Bolden as a top 15 recruit then they'd be more accepting of his play. He's not been sharp or "good", but he's seemed much more active and engaged this year. He missed some put backs last night on back to back feeds to him. He hasn't had those opportunities since high school. They don't need him to be the top 15 recruit. They just need him to give some quality minutes at the 5 every game. I think he is capable of that.

Yes, and people could also check out "The Offseason w/ Jon Scheyer" podcast interview w/ Quis. His sincerity and commitment come through, and it also shares the fact that he is much newer to this level of play than a lot of his teammates.

 

[Dattier]

I will add another positive. It seems K is truly using his bench more. Hope that trend continues.

So far, so good! When we got Bags, I suspected it might push the separation far enough down the rotation that we'd actually play a shorter rotation (ie, we'd roll w/ 6 sometimes w/ 2 guys just beyond the cut as opposed to rolling w/ 7 w/o Bags). I'm really pleased to see that it doesn't look like it's going to develop that way. Javin is legit. Odds are at least one freshman will hit the dreaded freshman wall sometime, and Javin may move into the starting line-up during that lull. I see Quis and Alex and JG all becoming more and more valuable, and Vrank, too! I doubt we'll roll w/ all 10 in tight games, but I think 9 is more likely than 7, so while 8 may be the safest bet, it is more likely to be on the conservative side than the overly optimistic side, imo.

 

[Quavarius]

*whispers* Initially Bolden wasn't supposed to play the first three games.

 

[Laettner15]

*whispers* Initially Bolden wasn't supposed to play the first three games.

Q because of the strep?

 

[chov1125]

My opinion when it comes to Bolden is that he is a top 15 recruit in terms of natural ability. He looks much sharper this year than last. The good plays are closer together. When I see Bolden out there I can’t decide if it is his basketball IQ that is low or he’s just thinking rather than reacting.

When you see him operate in the post all the moves are there and he can finish over either shoulder. He’s a half step too slow on some plays and he doesn’t muscle through contact all that well.

On defense he is clearly not reacting and lots of time 1-2 steps slow on help d and rotating over. Maybe again his basketball IQ and instincts aren’t top 15 recruit.

But like I said earlier the talent is there. He doesn’t play nearly as fast as Marvin or Wendell but he’s also much more skilled than Vrank and I would even say Javin. If it’s health related I completely get it. But his minutes are scattered in a weird way and often leave me puzzled. Like last night he doesn’t play the entire first half but a majority of the second half.

I’m a big Bolden fan and will continue to pull for him. I just hope he sticks around with the right attitude and writes a happy Duke story for himself.

 

[KellenPatrick]

I wasn't able to watch the game last night but I just saw that ridiculous flop by Grayson. Why does he continue to do crap like that?!! I sooo wanna embrace him but he always does something like that to take away from how good he is. The defender did not even come close to touching his face yet he fell to the floor like he was shot, then got up walking around and wincing as if he was in pain. Just play, Grayson, that garbage is nothing but embarrassing.

 

[Clay Clay 4]

If people stopped thinking of Bolden as a top 15 recruit then they'd be more accepting of his play. He's not been sharp or "good", but he's seemed much more active and engaged this year. He missed some put backs last night on back to back feeds to him. He hasn't had those opportunities since high school. They don't need him to be the top 15 recruit. They just need him to give some quality minutes at the 5 every game. I think he is capable of that.

I think this is good. I like Bolden. I think he will be a good player. I just think his status as a top 15 recruit was more on potential or maybe slightly overrated. I still believe he can be a really good college player. We just have to be patient. Right now, he just isn’t as smooth or skilled as I think we were hoping. It took Mason a little while to get it too. Sometimes it take big men a little while. I think he will get it.

 

[timo0402]

I wasn't able to watch the game last night but I just saw that ridiculous flop by Grayson. Why does he continue to do crap like that?!! I sooo wanna embrace him but he always does something like that to take away from how good he is. The defender did not even come close to touching his face yet he fell to the floor like he was shot, then got up walking around and wincing as if he was in pain. Just play, Grayson, that garbage is nothing but embarrassing.

Great analaysis. Go back to watching the THR and RR boards.

Can Grayson embellish like every NBA guy on the court trying to sell the play? Sure. But to say it’s embarrassing? For who?

 

[sheyduke]

If people think Grayson is the only one to truly flop guess again.

As for Bolden, imo it's more that he's starting to realize," I'm not the biggest kid on the low block!" And he's realizing he has to play strong just takes time. He will get it.

 

[dukehokie]

Embellishing fouls has been a part of basketball since Ed Koffenberger turned on UNC. Not sure there’s anything to see here. @KellenPatrick I’m assuming someone said something on RR about it and that’s what’s creating this animosity?

 

[christophero]

If Bolden stays (he should but who knows these days) he will be in perfect position to bust out as a junior. He's been sick and he seems like a guy who can lose his conditioning fast. I think he'll get there, it will just take a while longer than we had hoped.

 

[Jnood]

People try to play ultra physical on Grayson, and the refs ignore it. Sometimes you have to act like you got shot with a bazooka to get folks off you.

 

[Showenuff]

Look. We had an extremely bad night. And won. It's gonna happen. Did anyone REALLY think they would come out with the same intensity as they brought for MSU? NAH! I bet they learned a lot about prepping for a weaker team. I also bet they know Coach a little more after that trip to the locker room now. Also the readjust with Bagley in was significant, we look a lot different with him in the game and it was an adjustment. Watch next game. They come out firing. They bring much more intensity. Bank on it.

 

[RanDEVILman]

Honestly in my years as a coach I have learned something. It's not a popular opinion in sports... especially amongst fan bases and "old school" guys, although I'd guess this happened a lot in the past too. But the thought goes...the best teams, ie ones with a chance to win it all, they come ready in the big games and let the talent handle everything else. You can't bring it everyday, so it's the great teams that flip it when necessary and coast sometimes on their talent. I firmly believe having a team that can turn it on and off it a sign of a great team.

 

[timo0402]

Honestly in my years as a coach I have learned something. It's not a popular opinion in sports... especially amongst fan bases and "old school" guys, although I'd guess this happened a lot in the past too. But the thought goes...the best teams, ie ones with a chance to win it all, they come ready in the big games and let the talent handle everything else. You can't bring it everyday, so it's the great teams that flip it when necessary and coast sometimes on their talent. I firmly believe having a team that can turn it on and off it a sign of a great team.

I agree completely. And agree with Show above, i said somewhere else, maybe it was premium, but I’m going to go out on a limb and say you’re probably going to see a different energy level on Monday night. Call it a hunch. This was good for this team, trust me.

 

[Lavar5150]

I think this is good. I like Bolden. I think he will be a good player. I just think his status as a top 15 recruit was more on potential or maybe slightly overrated. I still believe he can be a really good college player. We just have to be patient. Right now, he just isn’t as smooth or skilled as I think we were hoping. It took Mason a little while to get it too. Sometimes it take big men a little while. I think he will get it.

I’m sorry but I think bolden is a below average athlete with heavy legs. If Jah is struggling to find a niche in the NBA game of today, then Bolden has no chance

 

[K-oach Q]

I loved this game...we played like complete poo...and won comfortably by double digits..never at any moment was the game in doubt..that we can block shots..rebound..defend..and shoot horribly and win a game like this is a really good thing...in the past few years this is a game we would have been sweating down the stretch...

We are playing the bench a ton also..no way they where motivated like Tuesday night...learning experience for a young squad..we will be totally fine..this team has tools..and not even close to how good we are going to be!

 

[DukeDenver]

I’m sorry but I think bolden is a below average athlete with heavy legs. If Jah is struggling to find a niche in the NBA game of today, then Bolden has no chance

Below average athlete at his size? That’s a tiny group of men worldwide. At his wingspan and footspeed, how many 20-35 year old men are there in the US? 100 guys total? Maybe less. What does it even mean to be below average in that group? He’s valuable. He can shoot free throws and has a decent hook shot. The guy has an NBA future no matter how many times he looks a step slow.

 

[dukiejay]

I’m not sure I see Bolden being an nba player. He has the physical tools, though.

 

[KellenPatrick]

Great analaysis. Go back to watching the THR and RR boards.

Can Grayson embellish like every NBA guy on the court trying to sell the play? Sure. But to say it’s embarrassing? For who?

I understand you have a problem with me but that was absolutely ridiculous AND embarrassing. I can actually take my Duke blue glasses off once in a while. Wow.

 

[KellenPatrick]

Embellishing fouls has been a part of basketball since Ed Koffenberger turned on UNC. Not sure there’s anything to see here. @KellenPatrick I’m assuming someone said something on RR about it and that’s what’s creating this animosity?

Nah, buddy, I knew how ridiculous it was when I saw it on my own. I defend Duke players all the time but that was so ridiculous that there is no defense. Sorry I have an opinion that some of you know it alls don't like!

 

[KellenPatrick]

Great analaysis. Go back to watching the THR and RR boards.

Can Grayson embellish like every NBA guy on the court trying to sell the play? Sure. But to say it’s embarrassing? For who?

And by the way, you seem like a real arrogant dbag. Big moderator on a message board. Such power....lol.

 

[SoCal_Dukie3]

And by the way, you seem like a real arrogant dbag. Big moderator on a message board. Such power....lol.

Wow. The incoherent rambling continues....

 

[dukehokie]

Wow. The incoherent rambling continues....

Man he used 4 messagboard cliches in three posts. I am actually impressed. Haha.

 

[KellenPatrick]

Wow. The incoherent rambling continues....

How was that incoherent? Seems like it should be easily understood to me.

 

[sgrooms]

Great analaysis. Go back to watching the THR and RR boards.

Can Grayson embellish like every NBA guy on the court trying to sell the play? Sure. But to say it’s embarrassing? For who?

It's embarrassing for KP, because he has to now read about it on those boards. I wonder what he could do differently to not feel this way.

 

[Showenuff]

Kellen, slow your roll a little bit buddy.

 

[dachampishere2]

Look. We had an extremely bad night. And won. It's gonna happen. Did anyone REALLY think they would come out with the same intensity as they brought for MSU? NAH! I bet they learned a lot about prepping for a weaker team. I also bet they know Coach a little more after that trip to the locker room now. Also the readjust with Bagley in was significant, we look a lot different with him in the game and it was an adjustment. Watch next game. They come out firing. They bring much more intensity. Bank on it.

That’s the thing though...they didn’t prep for the game. They had 2 off days

 

[timo0402]

And by the way, you seem like a real arrogant dbag. Big moderator on a message board. Such power....lol.

So let me get this straight. You don’t watch the game, you catch some highlight somewhere, and your only contribution is to bash our senior captain and call his actions embarrassing? That was your takeaway And I’m the dbag?

Let’s disregard the obvious cliche of not wearing duke blue glasses for your objectivity. So explain exactly where you saw the highlight. Let me guess, you were viewing another board, they had already been ripping on Allen, it was in super slo mo and you felt sheepish. Did they also have any highlights in super slow mo of any other player college or pro? I’m going to guess not- they’re going to hate on him if he’s saving a child from a burning building. It doesn’t matter.

My advice would be to stop worrying about their irrelevant opinions. And by some chance, you saw the highlight independently on your own and your only take away was that from the game highlights of the team that you root for, than i would suggest reevaluating how you cheer for your team.

 

[skysdad]

I wasn't able to watch the game last night but I just saw that ridiculous flop by Grayson. Why does he continue to do crap like that?!! I sooo wanna embrace him but he always does something like that to take away from how good he is. The defender did not even come close to touching his face yet he fell to the floor like he was shot, then got up walking around and wincing as if he was in pain. Just play, Grayson, that garbage is nothing but embarrassing.

Come on Kellen. It's getting to be like you are pretending to be a Duke fan but really may belong to some other species. It would be fairly easy to do you know. It's just the way you post things such as the line "I sooo wanna embrace him." I really hope you pull for Duke but sometimes I wonder. OFC

 

[OldasdirtDevil]

I'd like to have a few more Grayson Allen type players. Unfortunately, they don't come along too often. There are things to criticize about Grayson, but 'flopping' would have to be pretty far down the list, and besides...flopping works...it why every damn body does it.

OFC

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

I wasn't able to watch the game last night but I just saw that ridiculous flop by Grayson. Why does he continue to do crap like that?!! I sooo wanna embrace him but he always does something like that to take away from how good he is. The defender did not even come close to touching his face yet he fell to the floor like he was shot, then got up walking around and wincing as if he was in pain. Just play, Grayson, that garbage is nothing but embarrassing.

If you get a chance to see the play again, it does appear in real speed that he doesn't touch his face at all. But when you watch it through, the defender cleary gets Allen in the cheek and eyelid on the way up dragging his fingernails up Allen's face. So I think his reaction was probably legit.

 

[Showenuff]

Yea, I finally saw a great angle in slow mo and he raked him all the way up. and IN slow mo, reactions look very slow. i gave'em hell at rupp a bit ago over it.