Duke dragged into the Virginia Lt Gov scandal

[crazyduke3]

I’m as conservative as they come but I don’t care if it was 20 seconds or 20 years, it doesn’t make me doubt anything. I’ve never been raped so I can’t personally explain why she kept it hidden. And for what it’s worth it sounds like she did intitially try to tell somebody but she was told to just shut up.

Again I don’t have a firm opinion one way or the other, just for me 20 years doesn’t make it any less true in my book. I’m not her shoes.

 

[springsportster]

You left out the word allegedly

My previous post's point was to show a copy/paste of what some jerk posted on Wikipedia about it (calling Maggette guilty). If you read my portion above the wikipedia garbage, I called it alleged. I have a hard time believing an accuser of two alleged assaults within a year of each other, 20 years after the fact. Hard to believe she didn't go to the police at least once, but who really knows. I just don't automatically believe people.

Update: Someone has updated the Wikipedia page this morning to a more fair statement about the allegations.

 

[SWEc/o95]

Call me sexiest but it’s just hard to believe 20 years after the fact

Even though the lady herself didn't come forward with these accusations, I don't find it hard to believe. I can see people twisting her arm to keep quiet given the circumstances. Obviously I don't know this woman or her background but Corey doesn't really have a past that would indicate he would do something like that either. It's a he said/she said situation. Probably will be no way of telling what the truth is.

What I do find hard to believe is this woman somehow gets raped two years in a row at Duke. Rape victims do not tend to put themselves in that situation again, especially that soon.

I keep seeing the percentage of false claims is small argument, but those percentages go up against men with money and power. Especially black men.

 

[TheDude1]

Call me sexiest but it’s just hard to believe 20 years after the fact

I am going to assume you meant sexest, and not sexiest

This is an odd approach.

According to her, she got raped twenty years ago. She told the people in her immediate circle, as well as a dean. There are emails about it apparently, and conversations were had, and so on.

We have heard about it now, because the guy she accused (not Corey) said that she had said she was raped by a Duke player public. She confirmed it only after it was made public by someone else. She was not the one to initially make this info public.

Likewise, we only heard Corey’s name from other people. She confirmed it only after it was made public by someone else. She was not the one to initially make this info public.

I have no idea how that timeline makes it any less likely to have happened. We know lots of women don’t report, and many don’t report until decades later. She didn’t even report it in this situation. I also don’t get how not believing her story because of the time involved would be sexist.

Even though the lady herself didn't come forward with these accusations, I don't find it hard to believe. I can see people twisting her arm to keep quiet given the circumstances. Obviously I don't know this woman or her background but Corey doesn't really have a past that would indicate he would do something like that either. It's a he said/she said situation. Probably will be no way of telling what the truth is.

What I do find hard to believe is this woman somehow gets raped two years in a row at Duke. Rape victims do not tend to put themselves in that situation again, especially that soon.

I keep seeing the percentage of false claims is small argument, but those percentages go up against men with money and power. Especially black men.

I don’t know if there is any reason to believe a women who is raped once can’t get raped again. Similar situations dictate the opposite... for example, more than a third of women who are sexually assaulted before the age of 18 are also assaulted after the age of 18. While some women who suffer assaults proactively become better at protecting themselves, some other women, for any number of reasons, are just generally more susceptible to such things.

Do you have any facts or data or anything supporting that last point, that false claims go up against men with money and power, and especially black men? I think I get why you might say so (at least in terms of rich and powerful), but is that actually true?

 

[crazyduke3]

The only thing I’m curious about is the sources citing magette. They are a little eh. Time will hopefully reveal the truth

 

[TheDude1]

The only thing I’m curious about is the sources citing magette. They are a little eh. Time will hopefully reveal the truth

IIRC, it is two people who she told back when she was at Duke, and who were found by reporters.

 

[Neue Regel]

She can try to sue CM in civil court and see how it goes. Otherwise, that’s it. 20 years folks. That’s two decades and unc and Uk fans are welcome to count all fingers twice and they’ll also come up with 20.

 

[df64]

Rape is extremely difficult to prove in court if the accused has competent representation. That is for current cases. 20 yo cases are almost impossible to prove in court. Public opinion is another story. Neither is necessarily related to the truth.

 

[BOOGIEMAN1914]

I am curious about 1 person getting raped 2x in a 1-2 year window...if true they need to pay and if false she needs to be held accountable

 

[DiehardDukeFan4Life]

My previous post's point was to show a copy/paste of what some jerk posted on Wikipedia about it (calling Maggette guilty). If you read my portion above the wikipedia garbage, I called it alleged. I have a hard time believing an accuser of two alleged assaults within a year of each other, 20 years after the fact. Hard to believe she didn't go to the police at least once, but who really knows. I just don't automatically believe people.

Update: Someone has updated the Wikipedia page this morning to a more fair statement about the allegations.

The word allegedly was in the Wikipedia page last night when I quoted your post but it appears that it was changed and reworded and now says alleged instead of allegedly

 

[Devilinside]

Research shows that there is a very low occurance of false claims... between two and seven percent. Given the situation in which this came up (a man accused of several assaults was the one who even brought up this story to the public; there is no indication that the woman involved had any plans to ever reveal this... in fact, she didn’t... several people she told back in college revealed it)...it doesn’t seem particularly like some sort of false claim made for extortion or more attention... and add in what I know of the culture of sports and Duke and the life of an athlete and partying and schools... well, it’s likely to be true, as much as it sucks to say it. Of course, might not have happened.

Big believer in Occums Razor. In my life experiences, it often proves to be true.

I think you need to rethink what you are doing in inferring cause and effect from unrelated cases and easily manipulable statistics. Whether the statistics are credible for any purpose depends a lot on who is compiling them, who is defining rape, what the agenda is of the group compiling the statistics, what the sample make-up and size was, how the credibility of the accuser was assessed, what facts were present in each case and were relied upon in deciding the woman was not lying. You cannot infer from the fact that most rape victims tell the truth, that the victim in any particular case is likely telling the truth or that the alleged rapist is likely lying. Your statistics are not evidence of anything in a particular case. If they were, they would be usable in court, which they absolutely are not. Your argument reduces to this silly proposition, "Because she is a woman, she most probably is telling the truth, and because Corey is a man and a basketball player, he most probably is lying." If you were a juror in the trial of a rapist would you use your vast knowledge of statistics as evidence of guilt? I hope to hell not. I would have expected far more of you than to label Corey as a likely rapist without knowing any of the evidence and circumstances surrounding this case (which may differentiate it from all of the others in your percentages), without ever having had the chance of assessing the credibility of the accuser and the accused, and all because you read somewhere some numbers the relevance, reliability, and statistical significance of which you are not qualified to judge. You are living proof that men are presumed by the public to be guilty based upon nothing more than the woman's word. OFC

 

[TheDude1]

I think you need to rethink what you are doing in inferring cause and effect from unrelated cases and easily manipulable statistics. Whether the statistics are credible for any purpose depends a lot on who is compiling them, who is defining rape, what the agenda is of the group compiling the statistics, what the sample make-up and size was, how the credibility of the accuser was assessed, what facts were present in each case and were relied upon in deciding the woman was not lying. You cannot infer from the fact that most rape victims tell the truth, that the victim in any particular case is likely telling the truth or that the alleged rapist is likely lying. Your statistics are not evidence of anything in a particular case. If they were, they would be usable in court, which they absolutely are not. Your argument reduces to this silly proposition, "Because she is a woman, she most probably is telling the truth, and because Corey is a man and a basketball player, he most probably is lying." If you were a juror in the trial of a rapist would you use your vast knowledge of statistics as evidence of guilt? I hope to hell not. I would have expected far more of you than to label Corey as a likely rapist without knowing any of the evidence and circumstances surrounding this case (which may differentiate it from all of the others in your percentages), without ever having had the chance of assessing the credibility of the accuser and the accused, and all because you read somewhere some numbers the relevance, reliability, and statistical significance of which you are not qualified to judge. You are living proof that men are presumed by the public to be guilty based upon nothing more than the woman's word. OFC

Ehhh... I think you are wrong in some of what you said.

First, many of the studies were reputable studies done with transparency and according to the guidelines most studies are done following. You can nitpick individual studies if you’d like, but in the end they all end up finding the same thing: the number of accusations of sexual assault that are proven to be false is very, very low.

As for applying general findings to any one specific case, sure, in some ways that is true. But there is a little bit that we know... specifically that she did NOT make public that she had been raped by a basketball player, and she did NOT make public that it was Corey who was accused. These particulars make it far less likely to be some sort of extortion or revenge scheme. Absent very much information (which is the situation we are in regarding this case) you are largely left with trends and history to look at when personally deciding if this seems likely to be a true claim or not. Is it possible that the woman is lying? Of course. But from what I know of the situation, and what I know of sexual assault and rape and reporting and the like, it’s more likely that she is telling the truth.

I don’t know where some of what you said came from. I don’t think cause and effect was being discussed here. Being a woman in no way, shape, or form makes it more or less likely that she is telling the truth. Because Corey is a man and a basketball player doesn’t make it more likely that it is true. This has nothing to do with the law, or what I would do as a juror. No idea where you got that from. Heck, I’m not even sure where you got “most probably” from. Did I say that? Most probably =/= likely.

I found some of your post to be a bit forced.

 

[LTDukeFan]

Even though the lady herself didn't come forward with these accusations, I don't find it hard to believe. I can see people twisting her arm to keep quiet given the circumstances. Obviously I don't know this woman or her background but Corey doesn't really have a past that would indicate he would do something like that either. It's a he said/she said situation. Probably will be no way of telling what the truth is.

What I do find hard to believe is this woman somehow gets raped two years in a row at Duke. Rape victims do not tend to put themselves in that situation again, especially that soon.

I keep seeing the percentage of false claims is small argument, but those percentages go up against men with money and power. Especially black men.

This is a hard topic. And I am the father of two daughters, both in college. Hard topic.

I also find it hard to believe that someone is raped by two different people in two different situations. I am not sure what the point of mentioning the second rape is. I am not going to guess. It would seem that she did not tell her parents, but she told friends and a dean -- I find that odd. I have not read everything here -- but I am guessing that she did not tell her parents if she remained at Duke. If it were my daughter, I can assure you that I (and my wife) would have brought it to light. 20 years in the past is very hard to recall -- trauma or not it is very hard to have any good recall.

Maggette's life as he knows it is over. As is the victim's (percieved or real).

 

[TheDude1]

This is a hard topic. And I am the father of two daughters, both in college. Hard topic.

I also find it hard to believe that someone is raped by two different people in two different situations. I am not sure what the point of mentioning the second rape is. I am not going to guess. It would seem that she did not tell her parents, but she told friends and a dean -- I find that odd. I have not read everything here -- but I am guessing that she did not tell her parents if she remained at Duke. If it were my daughter, I can assure you that I (and my wife) would have brought it to light. 20 years in the past is very hard to recall -- trauma or not it is very hard to have any good recall.

Maggette's life as he knows it is over. As is the victim's (percieved or real).

Hm, I don’t think Corey’s life is necessarily over. It might be difficult for a while, in terms of public stuff, but I am sure his loved ones will believe what he tells them, and I think that eventually it will blow over. I mean, didn’t Kobe rape or allegedly rape some girl in a hotel room or something? He got past it. Corey likely will too.

 

[LTDukeFan]

Hm, I don’t think Corey’s life is necessarily over. It might be difficult for a while, in terms of public stuff, but I am sure his loved ones will believe what he tells them, and I think that eventually it will blow over. I mean, didn’t Kobe rape or allegedly rape some girl in a hotel room or something? He got past it. Corey likely will too.

He is an analyst on Fox Sports....do you think they'll re-new his contract? I am tending more towards "no" then "yes" even if he is found to be not guilty.

 

[TheDude1]

He is an analyst on Fox Sports....do you think they'll re-new his contract? I am tending more towards "no" then "yes" even if he is founds to be not guilty.

Ah, didn’t remember. That sucks.

 

[jibip]

In the post game pressers after UVA and after UL, Coach K has denied ever knowing about the allegation back in 99. From a fan perspective I hope that’s true, bc of it turns out that he knew, this is not going to go well for him, and personally I’d be extremely disappointed.

As far as the allegation itself, were just going to have to wait to find out what info can be uncovered about the incident as well as what actions Duke took. One of complicated factors is how our view of all this has changed over the last 20 years. Standards and procedures back then don’t match what they are today. So if you measure the university’s response back then by today’s expectations, I have no doubt it won’t look good.

 

[Devilinside]

Ehhh... I think you are wrong in some of what you said.

First, many of the studies were reputable studies done with transparency and according to the guidelines most studies are done following. You can nitpick individual studies if you’d like, but in the end they all end up finding the same thing: the number of accusations of sexual assault that are proven to be false is very, very low.

As for applying general findings to any one specific case, sure, in some ways that is true. But there is a little bit that we know... specifically that she did NOT make public that she had been raped by a basketball player, and she did NOT make public that it was Corey who was accused. These particulars make it far less likely to be some sort of extortion or revenge scheme. Absent very much information (which is the situation we are in regarding this case) you are largely left with trends and history to look at when personally deciding if this seems likely to be a true claim or not. Is it possible that the woman is lying? Of course. But from what I know of the situation, and what I know of sexual assault and rape and reporting and the like, it’s more likely that she is telling the truth.

I don’t know where some of what you said came from. I don’t think cause and effect was being discussed here. Being a woman in no way, shape, or form makes it more or less likely that she is telling the truth. Because Corey is a man and a basketball player doesn’t make it more likely that it is true. This has nothing to do with the law, or what I would do as a juror. No idea where you got that from. Heck, I’m not even sure where you got “most probably” from. Did I say that? Most probably =/= likely.

I found some of your post to be a bit forced.

Hey, Sport, you are the one who cited the allegedly transparent statistically relevant studies as a basis for your conclusion that Corey likely did it, along with your own exhaustive, scientific research into the behavior of college athletes.

 

[TheDude1]

Hey, Sport, you are the one who cited the allegedly transparent statistically relevant studies as a basis for your conclusion that Corey likely did it, along with your own exhaustive, scientific research into the behavior of college athletes.

Uhhh...

Here is a link; you can find the studies from there. They are pretty clear about all of the questions you had.

https://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/Publications_NSVRC_Overview_False-Reporting.pdf

The three key studies ((Lonsway, Archambault, & Lisak, 2009) (Lisak, D., Gardinier, L., Nicksa, S. C., & Cote, A. M., 2010) and (Heenan & Murray 2006)) are the ones that are most often cited, not just in the link above but across the discussion of false reporting of sexual assaults. I linked each study in the names above, so you can read them yourself and answer all of your outstanding questions.

I have no idea where you got some idea that I did exhaustive, scientific research about college athletes. *I* certainly never said that.

You seem to be all pissed off and insisting that I am saying and doing things that I'm not doing. You've done it for several posts in a row... something about me being a juror and something about me doing scientific studies and all of this other stuff. It's very odd. Stop inventing stuff.

 

[timo0402]

Uhhh...

Here is a link; you can find the studies from there. They are pretty clear about all of the questions you had.

https://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/Publications_NSVRC_Overview_False-Reporting.pdf

The three key studies ((Lonsway, Archambault, & Lisak, 2009) (Lisak, D., Gardinier, L., Nicksa, S. C., & Cote, A. M., 2010) and (Heenan & Murray 2006)) are the ones that are most often cited, not just in the link above but across the discussion of false reporting of sexual assaults. I linked each study in the names above, so you can read them yourself and answer all of your outstanding questions.

I have no idea where you got some idea that I did exhaustive, scientific research about college athletes. *I* certainly never said that.

You seem to be all pissed off and insisting that I am saying and doing things that I'm not doing. You've done it for several posts in a row... something about me being a juror and something about me doing scientific studies and all of this other stuff. It's very odd. Stop inventing stuff.

You got that from Vickers, work in Essex county, page 98 right? Yeah i read that too. We’re you going to plagiarize the whole thing for us? Or is that your thing? You come into a bar and read some obscure passage and try and pawn it off as your own idea just to impress some girls and embarrass my friend?

 

[TheDude1]

You got that from Vickers, work in Essex county, page 98 right? Yeah i read that too. We’re you going to plagiarize the whole thing for us? Or is that your thing? You come into a bar and read some obscure passage and try and pawn it off as your own idea just to impress some girls and embarrass my friend?

T, I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not...?

 

[pisgah101]

You got that from Vickers, work in Essex county, page 98 right? Yeah i read that too. We’re you going to plagiarize the whole thing for us? Or is that your thing? You come into a bar and read some obscure passage and try and pawn it off as your own idea just to impress some girls and embarrass my friend?

Hahahaha

 

[TheDude1]

Oh, that's a movie quote Sorry, never saw Good Will Hunting

 

[timo0402]

Oh, that's a movie quote Sorry, never saw Good Will Hunting

It’s an all time flick

 

[TheDude1]

It’s an all time flick

Do you think it would still hold up?

(BTW, I do have to point out, I cited my sources and provided links to the studies )

 

[Hurley22]

You got that from Vickers, work in Essex county, page 98 right? Yeah i read that too. We’re you going to plagiarize the whole thing for us? Or is that your thing? You come into a bar and read some obscure passage and try and pawn it off as your own idea just to impress some girls and embarrass my friend?

Top five all time for me........"my boy's wicked smart"

 

[timo0402]

Do you think it would still hold up?

(BTW, I do have to point out, I cited my sources and provided links to the studies )

Do you like apples?

 

[TheDude1]

Do you like apples?

How do you like them apples?


(See?! I know that line!)

 

[Devilinside]

Uhhh...

Here is a link; you can find the studies from there. They are pretty clear about all of the questions you had.

https://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/Publications_NSVRC_Overview_False-Reporting.pdf

The three key studies ((Lonsway, Archambault, & Lisak, 2009) (Lisak, D., Gardinier, L., Nicksa, S. C., & Cote, A. M., 2010) and (Heenan & Murray 2006)) are the ones that are most often cited, not just in the link above but across the discussion of false reporting of sexual assaults. I linked each study in the names above, so you can read them yourself and answer all of your outstanding questions.

I have no idea where you got some idea that I did exhaustive, scientific research about college athletes. *I* certainly never said that.

You seem to be all pissed off and insisting that I am saying and doing things that I'm not doing. You've done it for several posts in a row... something about me being a juror and something about me doing scientific studies and all of this other stuff. It's very odd. Stop inventing stuff.

You still don't get it, do you? The point is that without knowing the actors or the circumstances of the event, you cannot infer anything about their motives, truthfulness, or likelihood to engage in violent criminal conduct. What you did say is that you knew that college athletes are likely, your word, to do bad stuff. Even assuming that you were correct about that, (which you are not), you cannot infer anything from that or from the fact that a bunch of sociologists conducted studies which their sociologist peers applauded, which studies purported to show that women don't lie about being raped. You especially cannot infer in the circumstances of this case that this woman is telling the truth or that this male college basketball player is likely guilty.

 

[TheDude1]

You still don't get it, do you? The point is that without knowing the actors or the circumstances of the event, you cannot infer anything about their motives, truthfulness, or likelihood to engage in violent criminal conduct. What you did say is that you knew that college athletes are likely, your word, to do bad stuff. Even assuming that you were correct about that, (which you are not), you cannot infer anything from that or from the fact that a bunch of sociologists conducted studies which their sociologist peers applauded, which studies purported to show that women don't lie about being raped. You especially cannot infer in the circumstances of this case that this woman is telling the truth or that this male college basketball player is likely guilty.

Point taken.