That last sentence is why I don’t have alot of faith. Lord I miss when we had 3pt shooters
Official Gameday thread- Duke vs Miami II
- Thread starter pisgah101
- Start date
Check Bennett's record vs Duke. That's hardly impossible. I saw Last night coming a mile away. Worst possible game after such a short turnaround.
It is what it is.
hey' let's give Pitt credit, their folks have coined the term "Capel Hill" I'm sure Heel Nation is enjoying that one lol.
Serious question: Did a K team ever get blown out 3 times in a season like we have against Miami, NC st, and Purdue?
By NO means am I saying it's W. But I am not going to concede the L without playing the game. UVA is a very good team, and we have been miserable on the road.
Look, clearly this year's team does not have the explosiveness and raw talent of other recent Duke teams, but when our guards are on their game, and when Flip is playing with confidence and when others can play a part (see Lively vs UNC) I know we can hang with the UVA's of the world. Let's play the game and see what we can do!
Look, clearly this year's team does not have the explosiveness and raw talent of other recent Duke teams, but when our guards are on their game, and when Flip is playing with confidence and when others can play a part (see Lively vs UNC) I know we can hang with the UVA's of the world. Let's play the game and see what we can do!
Maybe not in one season. Other than Purdue, most of the 'big boys' have had their share of inconsistent play. The holes are the first team to come to mind. Preseason #1, now unranked. Kansas has lost 5 games, with one of those a 23 point thumping at home to TCU. Gonzaga doesn't seem to be as tough as years past either.
Let's also not act like things were smooth as silk during K's last several years. Duke lost 23 games from 17-19. That's with some of the best talent coming to Duke. Our title team of 15? Yeah, lost back to back games to State by 12 in Raleigh, and 16 points at home to Miami.
I don’t think Duke was blown out by Purdue. They were in that game until Roach got hurt.
It does seem there is a lot more parity the past few years than ever before, anyone can beat anyone. The game is changing: good teams are often young, veteran teams are often limited in talent.
Throw NIL in when teams seemingly can be bought, and you have this new product. NIL seems to be helping the big schools that aren’t traditional powers: Pitt, NC St, & Clemson. Alabama is leading the SEC and they have no tradition, however they have a treasure chest of football money that seems to be getting thrown at the basketball program too.
In a perfect world: I’d like to go back to the late 90s and early 2000s where Duke was getting the top talent and keeping them in school for years, but that’ll never happen again.
It's too early to pin these blowout losses on Scheyer, considering we just arent very talented and Whitehead hasnt been much all year. But it's a trend i hope we dont see next year or the year after.
Not really . All you have to do is see if it’s a company paying them .
Wong stayed because they upped his NIL money plain and simple and I look for him to go to the draft this year . Why would any five star stay if he projected first round ? Or a four star that works his way into the first round ?
I would hope you improve should you stay in college four years but the difference is UVA has playing time where as Duke doesn’t except maybe at certain positions .
Also it’s not that hard to investigate NIL if a player is receiving money from a company but hasn’t shown up in one ad or commercial .
No one can make a player stay and I’m sorry a lot of four and five stars aren’t coming to Duke with out the NBA pipe line .
The best thing about freshman is they become sophomores. Unless they go to Duke. I read the game was 13-1 at the start. The games already over and we had one point. It's sad that I just want Saturday to be a competitive loss. This team lacks toughness away from Cameron.
For folks who are interested in next year's recruits: https://247sports.com/college/duke/Season/2023-Basketball/Commits/
We have 3 power forwards and 2 combo guards coming in. Of those, only TJ Power (#20 in composite) is known as a shooter.
In arguably the most important position, PG, these are the recruits from 2015-2023: Derryck Thornton, Frank Jackson, Trevon Duval, Tre Jones, None, Jeremy Roach, Jaylen Blakes, Tyrese Proctor, None.
So only 1 true PG in 9 years. We've gone towards the SG and CG approach. The challenge has been none of these guys can pass like a PG, and few can shoot like an SG.
Used to consider Duke PG-U. That hasn't been the case for almost a decade.
We have 3 power forwards and 2 combo guards coming in. Of those, only TJ Power (#20 in composite) is known as a shooter.
In arguably the most important position, PG, these are the recruits from 2015-2023: Derryck Thornton, Frank Jackson, Trevon Duval, Tre Jones, None, Jeremy Roach, Jaylen Blakes, Tyrese Proctor, None.
So only 1 true PG in 9 years. We've gone towards the SG and CG approach. The challenge has been none of these guys can pass like a PG, and few can shoot like an SG.
Used to consider Duke PG-U. That hasn't been the case for almost a decade.
I totally agree Denver. Really hard to get invested in players who are only around 1 year. That is especially so when those players consistently do not perform up to 5*, or even4*, expectations. The team I saw last night again did not seem to know what they were doing or were supposed to do, with the exception of Young. Sad that our best player last night was a tarnsfer. Even when we went to the zone, we repeatedly left a Miami shooter wide open at the free throw line. I do not think we need to waste more analysis on Schutt. Too slow and unskilled on defense. Often looked unsure of where he was supposed to be. Could not get open enough to get more than a shot off, except against Miami benchwarmers. Sat transfixed in the corner at times which does not work too well with a motion offense. Jon at several points in the second half looked like a deer in the headlights. He was thoroughly outcoached again. Things do not look good against UVA because, in order to have a chance against their packed-in defense, Duke needs to shoot well from outside, at least 35%. OFC
Good background...and expecting an 18 yo who dominates in HS to come in and do the same to 20-23 yo experienced college players is foolish, especially when it comes to running a team, defending experienced guards and scoring in crunch time. Looking to next year, the cupboard still looks bare at the PG position. Hope I'm proved wrong. Hopefully we can get some experience at that position soon
Foster is a pg . MCCain a combo . Add Roach or Proctor, Blakes and Schutt and that’s a strong back court.
The problem is that the pg position is being run by combo guards now unless your a college pg.
Roach coming back was huge but he was never a true pg more of a scoring guard .
It was. They started off with a Miami center, who was 1-11 from 3 in career, nailing a 3 that didn’t touch the rim.
To me as a fan it is frustrating to watch the same freshman learning curve year after year. Last year we got it together in time. But then we just start over at zero. We are barely beating teams at home and getting detroyed on the road. Its not Jon's fault everyone left, but if some guys don't return it will be the same thing next year. Our guys just looked intimidated last night. We weren't even competitive.
Need to return more than just Mitchell this off-season or else I worry things are just gonna be the same thing year after year. Probably won’t be as bad as this year Bc most freshman classes will be stronger overall but still.
Last year is a perfect example: that team was so talented, IMO just as talented as the Zion team but with more depth. We still lost way too much in the ACC, got embarrassed in the ACC tournament, all due to our youth.
Last year is a perfect example: that team was so talented, IMO just as talented as the Zion team but with more depth. We still lost way too much in the ACC, got embarrassed in the ACC tournament, all due to our youth.
Agree to disagree on Foster, especially on passing. He also has plummeted in the most recent Rivals rankings. From DBR, you can scroll down to get some recent first-hand knowledge of his game: https://forums.dukebasketballreport...3738-2023-Men-s-Basketball-Recruiting/page109
On McCain, he's not known for shooting or passing, so not sure how you'd describe him a guard.
I don't see Blakes or Schutt contributing at an ACC level of play. Proctor is most likely gone. Roach is the same player he was as a freshman.
So I see our guard play next year as similar to this year's, maybe a step up if Foster is as good as you think. But I think we need about 5 steps up from this year.
Well he gave us 2.5 assists per game, and USC 1.2. Ramped that up as a junior to 4.3, then 3.4 at BC as a senior.
With those stats, not sure how you'd describe him as PG, but YMMV.
Wiki: "As a freshman at Duke, Thornton made 20 starts but saw his playing time fluctuate despite being the only pure point guard on the team. He averaged 7.1 points and 2.5 assists per game.[4] Following the season Thornton transferred to USC, choosing the Trojans over Kansas, Washington and Miami.[5] After sitting out a season as a redshirt, he averaged 3.8 points and 1.2 assists per game off the bench. As a redshirt junior, Thornton started 27 games and averaged 7.7 points and 4.3 assists per game.[6] He opted to transfer after the season as a graduate transfer and committed to Boston College after considering Gonzaga, Texas Tech, Auburn and St. John's.[7] Thornton averaged 12.7 points, 2.8 rebounds, 3.4 assists and 1.1 steals per game in his final season at Boston College."
How do we know next year's freshman class will be stronger? This was supposed to be a superclass this year. Plus our freshman always seem to get injured. If we can get Roach, Blakes, Schutt, Mitchell Young and Reeves back that would be a nice start. That seems like a best case scenario though.
McCain not known for shooting lol. Scouts disagree
McCain is a skilled and efficient guard whose most obvious value at the next level comes as a spot-up shooter and floor-spacer who is efficient within offensive structure. He has a very compact release on his jumper, with almost no dip prior to his release, that gives him added gravity around the arc. McCain also plays with a high IQ, understands spacing, and values the ball.
You're right, I was thinking of Stewart, not McCain, thanks for the catch.
A recent review:
“McCain is one of the best outside shooters in the high school game, regardless of class. He utilizes shot fakes and pass fakes to create space for himself and understands the art of cutting off screens to get open. He’s very goal- and task-oriented in his approach to the game.”
Paul Biancardi
ESPN Basketball
I am not sure where you are getting that this class was supposed to be a superclass from? Yes Lively was rated the #1 prospect coming into college, no mock drafts have ever had him as a top 5 pick. Flip was the classic “there is something there but may take him time to adjust to the physicality of the game.” Which was wrong. In recruiting circles, it was widely known that the 2022 HS class was down, just didn’t think it was this down.
But yes, in theory, the freshman coming into college basketball next year “should” be better than this year. We aren’t bringing in a bunch of top 10 guys though, so it won’t be great if we don’t return some sophomores.
Isn't that 3 top 5 guys though? My point is I don't know how we can assume next year's class will be better. Seems like people always assume we are getting the best versions of high school prospects.
All good bro, he’s prolly the recruit I’m most excited for. Never stops moving, quick trigger and a natural scorer
I get what you mean. And yes 3 top 5 guys could certainly be a super class. Nothing is a given, but the overall strength of the 2023 HS graduates is MUCH stronger than 2022. Last year, SLAM magazine did a 5 best HS players in the country, and only 1 2022 kid was on there, all younger kids made it.
Problem is we don’t have the cream of the crop for the 2023 class. We need to return guys and get some more veteran leadership year in year out. A lot of people are excited (including myself) of the possibility of Flagg and the Boozer twins, but we sure looked pathetic last night playing right in front of Carlos and his kids.
So now a PG is only calibrated by APG? Yikes. I nearly fell over laughing at this.
McCain is absolutely known for his shooting and has even played majority of this year at point. Now how does that work with Foster? Not sure, but both of those guys will more than likely start next year. Foster without a doubt is starting
Flip mentioned something about the team not playing hard and not being ready to play. We might want to work on that. We are not just going to out talent teams, and no one is afraid of us anymore.
So what will the line be at Virginia? I'd say them by 8, and I still wouldn't bet on us. My guess is we are more competitive Sat. but this team doesnt have the chops to go there and get a W.
Hope we break the bank on some guys in the portal IMO
It's like Jon is scared to get mad. Coach K didn't even have to talk to get a call. He had a stare down that could bury a ref. I am not saying it works, but I would like to see Jon get "T"d up just to fire the guys up.
OFC
Virginia lines are always lower than you would think because they hold the ball for 20+ seconds every possession. 5.5 is my guess.
