I think the truth lies somewhere in between. I think Roy develops his players very well. He just gets them to stay longer.
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- Thread starter dukiejay
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I think the truth lies somewhere in between. I think Roy develops his players very well. He just gets them to stay longer.
Which is 100% the reason why elite kids dont want to go to UNC. Roy somehow convinces kids to stay at UNC longer than needed. Which explains how a top-5 blue blood program like UNC has only had a couple of freshman leave in the last decade. I.E., when Roy infamously told Barnes after his freshman year than Barnes wouldnt have been a lottery pick. lol
Here's the message to 5* players: "Come to UNC, we dress up and do really fun dance skits!"
My god...
Barnes stayed due to the NBA lock out. He easily was a lottery pick.
And I seem to recall that before three years ago Duke rarely had anyone go early.
Before the OAD era, it was quite common to want your top players to stay for a long time. Stack, Wallace, Carter, and Jamison all stayed 2+ years and it didn't affect their careers at all. And you still see successful players that stayed 4 years in the modern NBA. So I don't think that argument holds a lot of weight here.
carolinablue34 you must be forgetting players such as Avery, Brand, Boozer, Dunleavey and others. They were before the 1 and done era were they not? Believe me, we wanted them ALL to stay longer than they did.
Also, I think your players look really sweet and cute in their wittle navy seamen outfits.
Don't think they'll be so sweet and cute when we play you this year
Also you're right those players left early but even Brand wasn't one and done. Carolina had plenty of people leave early: May, Felton, McCants, Marvin, Wright, Lawson, Ellington, Ed Davis, Barnes, Henson, etc. you get the idea.
What's killing unc and Roy is perception. With the one and done era in full swing, the most important thing kids want is to get to the league which is understandable. That Roy hasn't produced a whole lot of stars weighs heavily in the minds of top high school talent.
However, that's not to say that Roy isn't a great coach, doesn't develop his players, or is incapable of producing OAD talent. I am in the camp at chapel hill that we need to land one of those kids consistently in order to start competing at the level we are used to in recruiting.
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There was a chart on this site which showed each of Roy"s players that have went to the NBA.One Player Brice went higher on the draft than his HS ranking.One player went at the same level of his HS ranking the others were drafted lower than their HS ranking.My question to you is where is the evidence that Roy developes his players.Perhaps the reality is that top notch HS players do some research and conclude that it is not in my best interest to play for RoyDon't think they'll be so sweet and cute when we play you this year
Also you're right those players left early but even Brand wasn't one and done. Carolina had plenty of people leave early: May, Felton, McCants, Marvin, Wright, Lawson, Ellington, Ed Davis, Barnes, Henson, etc. you get the idea.
What's killing unc and Roy is perception. With the one and done era in full swing, the most important thing kids want is to get to the league which is understandable. That Roy hasn't produced a whole lot of stars weighs heavily in the minds of top high school talent.
However, that's not to say that Roy isn't a great coach, doesn't develop his players, or is incapable of producing OAD talent. I am in the camp at chapel hill that we need to land one of those kids consistently in order to start competing at the level we are used to in recruiting.
I do think Roy is a great coach. It almost seems foolish to say he's not.
But, but, but....as carolinablue said, there's a perception problem right now with Roy moreso than UNC. Coaches are using it against him and players have taken notice. There's also that little fact out there that Roy, in almost 30 years of coaching at two blue blood programs, has had only one player go on to make an NBA All-Star team.
Again, he's a helluva coach, but he has blemishes too. Also, lets not forget AFAM going on right under his nose all those years and him not knowing? Please. Roy has a little sleaze of his own.
But, but, but....as carolinablue said, there's a perception problem right now with Roy moreso than UNC. Coaches are using it against him and players have taken notice. There's also that little fact out there that Roy, in almost 30 years of coaching at two blue blood programs, has had only one player go on to make an NBA All-Star team.
Again, he's a helluva coach, but he has blemishes too. Also, lets not forget AFAM going on right under his nose all those years and him not knowing? Please. Roy has a little sleaze of his own.
Definitely not. They look awesome.
I have seen where a few Hole fans even said that s**t was embarrassing. Roy is such a dork.
Carolinablue says Roy just gets them to stay longer. Lol. Are you serious???!! Hole fans, for years, have talked crap about what a scumbag K is for "forcing" kids to stay longer than they should. Fing hilarious!
First off, every one of us in the UNC-Duke rivalry has been hypocritical at some point or another. We're all biased towards our own team while trying to make the other look bad, myself included.
Secondly, I've never heard any Carolina criticize K for making his players stay longer. I think during the 99-03 era where we just got owned, we definitely wish guys like Battier, Jay Williams, and Redick would go early. But as I've said before, who doesn't want their best players to stay longer? That's how you used to win ball games and it still is to some degree.
But now, as we all know, the league has changed, recruiting has changed, and the priorities of these young men have changed. I'm no fan of K, but he is a great coach and he was smart to adapt to the times. Roy didn't (in addition to the scandal) and now it's causing to lose out on top recruits that in other years we might have had.
We need to have successful NBA stars again and the way we approach recruiting needs to change, or else we can expect more of our targets to go to Big Blue madness rather than late night.
I can agree with this. I can't speak for what he knew or didn't know during the scandal.
But you're absolutely right in that Roy is not seen as a coach that gets talent to the NBA. And I believe it's the biggest knock against our recruiting.
Gary and the others can justify it by saying crap like "Oh I'd rather do things the 'right' way and coach kids who want to stay for 4 years", but I'm not kidding myself. You better f**kin believe I want that OAD talent, and if we were reeling it in like you guys or UK are now, you bet your ass you wouldn't hear a peep of complaining out of the raider crowd.
i agree, but it defiantly has the look of all things that unc folks get on duke players about
I also only think some of the dudes on THR are saying they dont want any one and dones only because at present we arent getting any. Do I want a OAD factory like kentucky? No absolutely not. I feel like you can just as well go to the NIT with that formula as the final four(which has been proven). But.. Its fricken UNC. We should be able to pull in one of these kids a year, and surround that with high level 4 and top 25 5 stars, and some program guys.
I said on four corners the ones pumping sunshine and rainbows will be the first ones to jump ship this time next year after our mass exodus if Roy just pulls in the class its looking like they will, cuz it could get ugly. if We lose Jackson berry Hicks and meeks. And from what I saw last night Bradley is not a sure thing to be around as a soph either.
I said on four corners the ones pumping sunshine and rainbows will be the first ones to jump ship this time next year after our mass exodus if Roy just pulls in the class its looking like they will, cuz it could get ugly. if We lose Jackson berry Hicks and meeks. And from what I saw last night Bradley is not a sure thing to be around as a soph either.
blue34 you and Butternut tell it like it really is and thats the reason you are successful as continuous posters on this board. We know you're not a favorite to many of the blue blood unc fans like crazy Gary of silly Dsouthr but thats their loss and not yours. I think we all agree that Roy is a very good coach but one that hasn't adapted well to the changing player landscape.
DSouthr with more ridiculous garbage. How dare ButterButt question his off the wall rationale as to why Zion didn't show for LNWR. Unreal.
Butterbutt44 said: ↑
"You said in your post that it was "pretty clear" that he cancelled out of Respect for Roy, so Im just wondering where you came about drawing this conclusion or if you had information stating so. Because to me its not "pretty clear" at all based on what we know why he cancelled the trip."
DSouthr:
"IF he had a visit set with WKy last night, then was it cancelled, CLEARLY if it was set he then cancelled it. So why did he cancel that trip if it was not in respect for Roy and how it may have been seen by Roy? What is your explain for that being cancelled? I gave you the most logical reason for it being cancelled, you seem to not be able to agree with that so I can't wait to hear your more convincing reason the trip was cancelled."
284 DSouthr, Yesterday at 12:48 PM
Butterbutt44 said: ↑
"You said in your post that it was "pretty clear" that he cancelled out of Respect for Roy, so Im just wondering where you came about drawing this conclusion or if you had information stating so. Because to me its not "pretty clear" at all based on what we know why he cancelled the trip."
DSouthr:
"IF he had a visit set with WKy last night, then was it cancelled, CLEARLY if it was set he then cancelled it. So why did he cancel that trip if it was not in respect for Roy and how it may have been seen by Roy? What is your explain for that being cancelled? I gave you the most logical reason for it being cancelled, you seem to not be able to agree with that so I can't wait to hear your more convincing reason the trip was cancelled."
284 DSouthr, Yesterday at 12:48 PM
DSouthr is absolutely off his rocker. Absolutely clueless.
Butterbutt44 said: ↑
"Youre right,I dont agree. He couldve cancelled for a myriad of reasons. maybe his dog got sick. maybe the evan daniels spilling it early ruined it for him. Maybe he had a hot date. You stating that he did it out of respect for Roy, like that is a fact, is nothing but pure spin in the attempt to make the whole thing seem a bit less dissapointing then it really was. which is fine, but dont pretend it was at all clear he cancelled out of the kindness of his heart."
DSouthr:
"I have been pretty darn fair with you, you don't seem able to accept a perfectly logical explain from me why the visit was cancelled and you offer up silly reply of maybe his dog was sick. Straight talk, I could care less what your do's and don't do's are, if you want to logically discuss I am all about that but if you feel you have to be the next one in line to piss in my direction and trust me there is a line of you in waiting to do just that, then you are just looking to get in to a argument and do not care for the purposes of this board which is to discuss.
Now once again, for the 3rd time, do YOU have some logical makes sense explanation for why the kid cancelled the WKy visit that makes more sense than what I offered or do you still want to discuss his freakin dog's health?"
Butterbutt44 said: ↑
"Youre right,I dont agree. He couldve cancelled for a myriad of reasons. maybe his dog got sick. maybe the evan daniels spilling it early ruined it for him. Maybe he had a hot date. You stating that he did it out of respect for Roy, like that is a fact, is nothing but pure spin in the attempt to make the whole thing seem a bit less dissapointing then it really was. which is fine, but dont pretend it was at all clear he cancelled out of the kindness of his heart."
DSouthr:
"I have been pretty darn fair with you, you don't seem able to accept a perfectly logical explain from me why the visit was cancelled and you offer up silly reply of maybe his dog was sick. Straight talk, I could care less what your do's and don't do's are, if you want to logically discuss I am all about that but if you feel you have to be the next one in line to piss in my direction and trust me there is a line of you in waiting to do just that, then you are just looking to get in to a argument and do not care for the purposes of this board which is to discuss.
Now once again, for the 3rd time, do YOU have some logical makes sense explanation for why the kid cancelled the WKy visit that makes more sense than what I offered or do you still want to discuss his freakin dog's health?"
ButterButt:
"His dog being sick is just as logical as your fairy tale land "logical" explanation of him doing it out of respect for Roy. If that were true, why would he have scheduled the wku trip in the first place? My issue was you said that it was "pretty clear" that that was the reason he cancelled, as if it was fact. But in reality, you are just as in the dark about it as anyone else. But its obvious you cant discuss this without becoming emotional, so this is my last word on it."
"His dog being sick is just as logical as your fairy tale land "logical" explanation of him doing it out of respect for Roy. If that were true, why would he have scheduled the wku trip in the first place? My issue was you said that it was "pretty clear" that that was the reason he cancelled, as if it was fact. But in reality, you are just as in the dark about it as anyone else. But its obvious you cant discuss this without becoming emotional, so this is my last word on it."
Butterbutt44 said: ↑
"@imajericho in fairness, I asked a simple question. the poster made a statement of fact about why Zion cancelled his trip to WKU, so I was simply wondering if he had inside info or was blowing smoke. I wasnt looking for an argument, just clarification. Dsouthe seemed to become emotional when I questioned his assertion and he became attached to it even though it had no basis in reality, as i still havent seen him offer up any evidence that what hes asserting is true in any way.
Mentally unstable DSouthr:
"Hey, thought you said you had your last word? Now ya just feel the need to keep on poking? Please, don't give me that was not looking for an argument nonsense, I offer the kid cancelled the WKy visit out of respect for Roy and you give me nonsense about his dog? If you were wondering if I had inside information then why not ask that, I would have been more than glad to answer.
"Dsouthr seemed to become emotional" LOL, worry about your own emotional state and I will worry about my own. Now I see that I can dismiss you as just another one of those looking to troll."
"@imajericho in fairness, I asked a simple question. the poster made a statement of fact about why Zion cancelled his trip to WKU, so I was simply wondering if he had inside info or was blowing smoke. I wasnt looking for an argument, just clarification. Dsouthe seemed to become emotional when I questioned his assertion and he became attached to it even though it had no basis in reality, as i still havent seen him offer up any evidence that what hes asserting is true in any way.
Mentally unstable DSouthr:
"Hey, thought you said you had your last word? Now ya just feel the need to keep on poking? Please, don't give me that was not looking for an argument nonsense, I offer the kid cancelled the WKy visit out of respect for Roy and you give me nonsense about his dog? If you were wondering if I had inside information then why not ask that, I would have been more than glad to answer.
"Dsouthr seemed to become emotional" LOL, worry about your own emotional state and I will worry about my own. Now I see that I can dismiss you as just another one of those looking to troll."
It's truly amazing what a complete a**hat Dsouthr is. If u disagree with him, he pouts like a baby. Just shows he and that moron Gary-7 think they know everything
truetarheelraider0806 said: ↑
"easy killer. No one was dumping on the kid or assuming anything. from everything I had read and seen from tos insiders the kid cancelled at the last minute in no way did I or anyone degrade or deride even chide him. you have to admit the circumstances are peculiar at best. where there is smoke doesn't mean fire but embers are most def burning."
Butthurt DSouthr:
"Make a deal with ya, if you don't try to tell me he cancelled with us because his dog was sick then I promise not to assume you were dumping on the kid! Fact is I didn't take you as dumping on the kid nor anyone else but more concerned that a kid we feel great about may have been looking to visit some other program and not ours and that mean he is not as high on us as we thought.
What I simply offered was that a reasonable explanation is that it was pointed out to the kid by someone that his visiting WKy and not UNC for the Late Night could have made Roy less than comfortable so he killed the WKy visit. Now for me, that is an act of respect for how Roy would take his visiting WKy last night, to me that is what you would expect if the kid thought visiting WKy would sour Roy on him and the kid not want Roy sour on him.
If someone else can give us at least as reasonable an explanation then I am all ears, be glad to consider ANY OTHER REASONABLE explanation but just don't give me nonsense like his dog may have died and have me take that seriously.
And why do I consider this important you may ask, because we are recruiting this kid right now, actively, Roy does not need we fans starting some nonsense that turns the kid sour on us."
Actually, DSouthr, his dog dying is as probable as your ridiculous garbage.
"easy killer. No one was dumping on the kid or assuming anything. from everything I had read and seen from tos insiders the kid cancelled at the last minute in no way did I or anyone degrade or deride even chide him. you have to admit the circumstances are peculiar at best. where there is smoke doesn't mean fire but embers are most def burning."
Butthurt DSouthr:
"Make a deal with ya, if you don't try to tell me he cancelled with us because his dog was sick then I promise not to assume you were dumping on the kid! Fact is I didn't take you as dumping on the kid nor anyone else but more concerned that a kid we feel great about may have been looking to visit some other program and not ours and that mean he is not as high on us as we thought.
What I simply offered was that a reasonable explanation is that it was pointed out to the kid by someone that his visiting WKy and not UNC for the Late Night could have made Roy less than comfortable so he killed the WKy visit. Now for me, that is an act of respect for how Roy would take his visiting WKy last night, to me that is what you would expect if the kid thought visiting WKy would sour Roy on him and the kid not want Roy sour on him.
If someone else can give us at least as reasonable an explanation then I am all ears, be glad to consider ANY OTHER REASONABLE explanation but just don't give me nonsense like his dog may have died and have me take that seriously.
And why do I consider this important you may ask, because we are recruiting this kid right now, actively, Roy does not need we fans starting some nonsense that turns the kid sour on us."
Actually, DSouthr, his dog dying is as probable as your ridiculous garbage.
Then after mikey tells them to cut it out DSouthr in his typical "7 year old whiny, spoiled brat" prose...
mikeirbyusa said: ↑
"Quit the dern silliness and stay on topic. Sick of this crap, folks express opinions quit arguing with them and state yours."
DSouthr:
"Mike, the guy went rouge on me, he quoted my words "it is pretty clear" and elected not to use the 2 words that preceded that in his quote, those 2 words being "I THINK". And why, so he could accuse me of trying to state a fact and the words "I think" would have clearly shown I shared what I think, other wise known as opinion. So I gave him back the nonsense he was trying to heap on me."
mikeirbyusa said: ↑
"Quit the dern silliness and stay on topic. Sick of this crap, folks express opinions quit arguing with them and state yours."
DSouthr:
"Mike, the guy went rouge on me, he quoted my words "it is pretty clear" and elected not to use the 2 words that preceded that in his quote, those 2 words being "I THINK". And why, so he could accuse me of trying to state a fact and the words "I think" would have clearly shown I shared what I think, other wise known as opinion. So I gave him back the nonsense he was trying to heap on me."
But guys is that really being fair to 7 year olds.
Remember when DSouthr said he was done posting there and it lasted less than 12 hours? He couldn't leave if he wanted to. His head would explode.
I put this 3 Stooges short "Calling Dr. Howard, Dr. Fine, Dr. Howard" in the 'Giles Thread', but I added it here also.
I made a few changes to it...turn the sound on if you watch it.
THR, what would we do without them?
OFC
I made a few changes to it...turn the sound on if you watch it.
THR, what would we do without them?
OFC
I put this 3 Stooges short "Calling Dr. Howard, Dr. Fine, Dr. Howard" in the 'Giles Thread', but I added it here also.
I made a few changes to it...turn the sound on if you watch it.
THR, what would we do without them?
OFC
LOLLLLLL!!!!
The bolded isn't perception. It's reality.
Dr. Steat spitting his knowledge....
"Worst case scenario has Bradley starting at the 5 and Manley at the 4 in 2017. Telling you folks right now that if Manley does not get hurt in his upcoming high school senior season he will be a 5-Star. This kid is an Antione Jamison clone. When was the last time Roy started recruting a player for the first time and wrapped him up in 2 months? Roy had to ink this kid before he jumped up in the rankings."
"Worst case scenario has Bradley starting at the 5 and Manley at the 4 in 2017. Telling you folks right now that if Manley does not get hurt in his upcoming high school senior season he will be a 5-Star. This kid is an Antione Jamison clone. When was the last time Roy started recruting a player for the first time and wrapped him up in 2 months? Roy had to ink this kid before he jumped up in the rankings."
Dr. Steat spitting his knowledge....
"Worst case scenario has Bradley starting at the 5 and Manley at the 4 in 2017. Telling you folks right now that if Manley does not get hurt in his upcoming high school senior season he will be a 5-Star. This kid is an Antione Jamison clone. When was the last time Roy started recruting a player for the first time and wrapped him up in 2 months? Roy had to ink this kid before he jumped up in the rankings."
Of course this 3 star will most likely jump into the top 20. Roy finds yet another "diamond in the rough" ahead of everyone else. Because only Roy has the eye for the talent that he is bound to become. No other coach can do this. Jerry Lewis could commit to them and they would spin it to convince themselves that he is waaaay better than everyone else believes. Jerry Lewis?? What in hell made me think of him as the example here?? lol.
And we'll sprinkle in a little Gary, just for good measure....
"I realize you haven't been here long and may not know I'm a former coach and keep in contact with what I call my "mafia", some of whom are still heavily involved in AAU, and I'm glad to share the info I glean from time to time. So yeah, I'm a "poster on a message board", but also one who knows some stuff, and often able to find out when I don't."
I absolutely love when he uses the "mafia" line. Love it!
"I realize you haven't been here long and may not know I'm a former coach and keep in contact with what I call my "mafia", some of whom are still heavily involved in AAU, and I'm glad to share the info I glean from time to time. So yeah, I'm a "poster on a message board", but also one who knows some stuff, and often able to find out when I don't."
I absolutely love when he uses the "mafia" line. Love it!
He's always been been way out there....but he's become such a big baby recently too.
The only things I read that he post are in this thread. So I guess I am only seeing his true gems, but yeah I agree, he has always been out there and seems to think what is in his mind is the reality of every situation. I hope he posts forever!
LOLL!!! I love it when he uses the "mafia" line too. What a total jackass he is. Hey, gary, just about 100% of that wonderful inside info you "glean from time to time" is totally incorrect and you get left looking like the asshat you are for opening your dumb mouth yet AGAIN! Might wanna try and find some new sources you dummy.
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