I don't think coach K uses stall ball too much. I just think he goes into it too soon in the second half. 
The New Lounge
- Thread starter hpnole
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Thanks Hart.
I know there are a few people here who really think I am some asshole wacked out liberal nutjob, but I really do try to have decent conversations with people and listen to what they say and respond to them with thorough discussion and facts. There are one or two people here I've given up on, generally because of their tone rather than their substance (that Fourteen guy) but even people who are clearly on the other side of the spectum, like Mac or Pisgah, I liked shooting the shit with. I have always said I am sure we all agree on way more than we disagree with, and that we could all sit and have a drink together and talk basketball...
In the end, I look at each poster here as a person, not just as some random internet face, and I value the conversation between us exactly because of that. It doesn't always go smoothly, there are times I wish I had said something differently or hadn't given in to frustration, and there are DEFINITELY times it depresses the heck out of me, but overall I think its worth it, and I try to add to the conversation rather than detract.
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First, people on the left think me a bit too conservative for their tastes, so perhaps you could cut out the pigeon- holding. Second, the reason the President gets gutted is because he is incompetent, corrupt and dismantling democracy. And, third, it wasn’t just the National Guard, it was the army that he threatened to send in. Activating the Insurrection Act should frighten every American.
I don't think coach K uses stall ball too much. I just think he goes into it too soon in the second half.
.... and welcome to the next 26 pags of this thread
-- I'm glad you agree inequality is "still a thing." Based on the other things you have typed I'm not shocked you feel that whites are victims of inequality.
-- To be honest, the only time I ever hear any white people talk about Blacks being killed by other Blacks is either when they're downplaying a school shooting or when they're deflecting or defending the killings of Blacks by law enforcement, vigilante-types or other whites. Basically, the whole, "Don't complain about this until you fix that," mentality.
White people being vocal and trying to help with the BLM movement may be trying to help when they can. I'm sure a lot of white folks don't really know how to be an asset, or would even feel comfortable, in terms of bringing solutions to the table about how to eliminate gang-violence.
Sidenote, how many times have you described a white person getting shot as "capped?"
Finally, a good talking point for whites is always, "Blacks don't care about Black-on-Black murders." That is a stupid, uniformed point of view. I would assume those white people have never attended a Black church or the funeral of a young Black male who died at the end of a gun. It's possible for a community to have more than one concern. I mean white conservatives seem to somehow support a president who conducts himself like a dictator who threatens military action against his own constituents while simultaneously championing an amendment based on the need to protect themselves against an over-reaching federal government.
--Please never compare Asians to Blacks. The next time a white woman clutches her purse, crosses the street or threatens to sicc the cops on a Korean dude for asking her to put her dog on a leash will most likely to be the first. Just because a person is "of color," and has stereotypes put on them doesn't mean they are discriminated in the same manner.
--You mentioned fatherless homes in the Black community. Would you agree that hundreds of years of white folks tearing apart Black homes has led us to our current situation? Do you think it might take longer than a few decades to fix a problem that was a few centuries in the making?
--I'm with you on abolishing the police. I don't know anybody of any reasoning that thinks we need to do away with law enforcement. Retrain, re-evaluate hiring practices, hold officers to higher standards and actually treat criminal officer like criminals absolutely, but I'm not for getting rid of them altogether.
--Yes, Garner was murdered. Castille was murdered. Rice was murdered. As were so many others. Aside from the color of their skin, the other thing they have in common is their killers didn't serve any time in jail.
Justine Damond, a white yoga instructor is killed by a Somali cop. He got 12 years.
It's not just about cop killing Blacks. It's the level of mistreatment by police and the fact that when cops kill Blacks they tend to go unpunished.
Part of the reason police treat Blacks the way they do is because they know they operate with little to no fear of repercussion.
Tamir Rice's murderer should not have been fired. He should have been executed.
Minnesota doesn't have the death penalty but hopefully Derek Chauvin will never see another day on this planet as a free man. Maybe then we will begin to see a difference in the way officers police Black communities.
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It would seem with all the political divisiveness and name calling on this thread (but to be honest it’s much worse elsewhere), that we might all recognize the fact that the biggest problem facing this country is that it’s too divided.
The right says Trump is attacked consistently, and often unfairly. I would tend to agree, that while he’s not been the very portrait of a great politician, no one from the left gave him even a chance. Do any of you recall the vitriol that spilled forth following his election night? The left can argue that he deserves every bit of what they throw at him, but he was never even given a chance. They “KNEW” he was bad before he did anything wrong. (To be fair a lot of this happened with Obama too, it was poor democracy in both instances).
The left on the other hand feels like they are a quelled and quieted minority, and in many cases they are correct. There are many other issues that they tend to express that are well documented in this thread.
So I guess my main point would be, in the near future (November perhaps?) can we look for people who are willing to help unite, rather than those who are going to use a party line to divide.
White suburbia doesn’t mean you have to be a Republican, and black inner city doesn’t necessarily mean you have to be Democrat. In fact it feels like we are nearing a moment in history when political parties are due for a major shift and reform should abound in many ways.
November 2020 write in Shane Battier for POTUS.
The right says Trump is attacked consistently, and often unfairly. I would tend to agree, that while he’s not been the very portrait of a great politician, no one from the left gave him even a chance. Do any of you recall the vitriol that spilled forth following his election night? The left can argue that he deserves every bit of what they throw at him, but he was never even given a chance. They “KNEW” he was bad before he did anything wrong. (To be fair a lot of this happened with Obama too, it was poor democracy in both instances).
The left on the other hand feels like they are a quelled and quieted minority, and in many cases they are correct. There are many other issues that they tend to express that are well documented in this thread.
So I guess my main point would be, in the near future (November perhaps?) can we look for people who are willing to help unite, rather than those who are going to use a party line to divide.
White suburbia doesn’t mean you have to be a Republican, and black inner city doesn’t necessarily mean you have to be Democrat. In fact it feels like we are nearing a moment in history when political parties are due for a major shift and reform should abound in many ways.
November 2020 write in Shane Battier for POTUS.
Comparing blacks to other immigrant groups, recent or in the past, is ridiculous. Many of the groups mentioned are coming over as middle class to upper class immigrants with highly educated backgrounds. Big surprise they are successful. It would be a good story if they weren't successful. Even the poorer immigrants, past and present have largely come from intact family structures that had some level of community, if not family support. Historically, blacks in the US were denied these vital ingredients for success.
As for the grindstone concept, many have done this and many more are continuing to do this. Why not all? Why some and not others? If you ever studied the mental health effects of trauma, you probably would not ask this question. If you ever studied the link between poverty and trauma, you probably wouldn't ask this question. Cliff notes version, the long term, often permanent effect of trauma is moderate to severely debilitating mental health issues that are passed down from one generation to the next. The kind of problems that are extremely difficult to remediate even with lots of outside intervention.
As for the grindstone concept, many have done this and many more are continuing to do this. Why not all? Why some and not others? If you ever studied the mental health effects of trauma, you probably would not ask this question. If you ever studied the link between poverty and trauma, you probably wouldn't ask this question. Cliff notes version, the long term, often permanent effect of trauma is moderate to severely debilitating mental health issues that are passed down from one generation to the next. The kind of problems that are extremely difficult to remediate even with lots of outside intervention.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29276173/now-listening-roger-goodell-here-ways-nfl-effect-change
One of the best written articles I’ve read about all of this. Granted the scope of what the NFL can do is small. But the author doesn’t just say there is a problem he offers solid, doable solutions. Read the whole thing if interested in that part.
He also mentions the “talk” black parents have with their children about police. He mentions how kids are taught to be uber-respectful at the risk of losing their self-worth (kinda, he explains it better). Anyways it struck me that all people should be taught to act this way with cops. In my few interactions I have always been “yes sir, no sir” only. But the bigger issue is that I was at least somewhat in the wrong and not profiled. So while I believe cops should still be “yes sitred and no sired” by all, an important option would be a system for addressing issues after the incident by those who felt wronged. This might allow anyone (but more specifically minorities) to remain as calm as possible and attempt to de-escalate any potential incident, then address issues involving the incident later. It’s not a catch all fix, but it would be a step in the right direction.
One of the best written articles I’ve read about all of this. Granted the scope of what the NFL can do is small. But the author doesn’t just say there is a problem he offers solid, doable solutions. Read the whole thing if interested in that part.
He also mentions the “talk” black parents have with their children about police. He mentions how kids are taught to be uber-respectful at the risk of losing their self-worth (kinda, he explains it better). Anyways it struck me that all people should be taught to act this way with cops. In my few interactions I have always been “yes sir, no sir” only. But the bigger issue is that I was at least somewhat in the wrong and not profiled. So while I believe cops should still be “yes sitred and no sired” by all, an important option would be a system for addressing issues after the incident by those who felt wronged. This might allow anyone (but more specifically minorities) to remain as calm as possible and attempt to de-escalate any potential incident, then address issues involving the incident later. It’s not a catch all fix, but it would be a step in the right direction.
I am mixed as hell. My mother is white, my father is black and Japanese...which basically means I have looked like very few as I grew up. My reality as taught me to be socially fluid. Honestly, probably my biggest strength is knowing how to navigate through this world socially. I was never white enough for the white people.and not.black enough for the blacks. People very casually look and me and ask..."what are you?" So these questions of race have been surrounding me from the time I was I baby. But my parents were very educated, and my dad made more money than most. I was a division 1 athlete while probably being one of the three black kids in the advanced placement path in a large public school. I had all the opportunities and I'm still not immune to all this shit. This is me. This is us. This is our life.
If I was a Democrat, I’d be mad as hell that the best person my party could come up with was Joe Biden. I’d also keep praying that they keep these restrictions in place so poor Joe doesn’t have to debate Trump.
But, even if he were to win, he’ll never serve as President, or his time will be short served.
They’ll just put him in the other room and have him watch Looney Tunes.
Democracy is great, right people?
But, even if he were to win, he’ll never serve as President, or his time will be short served.
They’ll just put him in the other room and have him watch Looney Tunes.
Democracy is great, right people?
Again, why does Biden/Trump keep coming up in this thread?
Since you pushed it though, Biden isn't the best candidate the Democratic party could come up with. He's the safest.
Let's all be honest for a minute. Donald Trump built his political brand on the back or the identity politics white people claim to hate so damn much. He appealed to a bunch of white folks' (not just Republicans, either) desire for a return to the status quo (middle age to old white guy) after eight years of a Black guy being the most powerful man in America. The Democrats underestimated that and allowed Hillary to run. She was literally the only candidate Trump could beat.
Fast forward four years and they don't want to make the same mistake again. They're going to run the guy who can hopefully win back a lot of those folks in flyover states who wish they had their votes back.
If I thought she could win, I would have wanted Kamala Harris to win the nomination for debates alone. A former prosecutor against a guy who can barely string coherent sentences together would be entertaining on it's own. Throw in the fact Harris checks a whole lot of boxes that Trump despises (intelligent, female, Black and quick-witted) and you get at the very least a repeat of the nasty woman thing. Worst case scenario would be Trump snapping on global television and hitting her with n- and b- bombs.
I'm some ways...I kind of agree with you. We should have someone better than Biden. I think this is a weakness in the 2 party system.
That being said, you're coming from a position who thinks electing trump was a good idea sooooo. 4 years is gonna seem like a very short period for the "GOAT" president dont ya think? Biden at the very least will do the same.
I was with you the whole way until you brought up the debates. While I would love to see her demolition of Trump, he would never debate her.
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I would vote for him for president. People like him can make a difference for everybody.
Part of the reason there was so much mistrust of Trump was the very deep seated belief, born out by Mueller, that Trump was helped by the Russians in the election. Added to that were the purges of voters in states like Ohio. That plus the significant difference in the popular vote. But, if you remember Schumer actually said that the Dems were willing to work with Trump so long as his ideas were good for the country. Some of us from NY who were aware of Trump's membership in the Democratic Party thought that the Republicans might not like him as much as they thought. Then, almost immediately, he signed his Muslim ban order and suggested that Muslim's might have to register. Even with that, we did not burn him in effigy the way Obama was and we certainly never suggested he was not born in this country, the way the birthers including Trump did about Obama. Everyone talks about how polarized we are. In fact, among voters in both parties there is general support for gay marriage, gun control, tackling climate change, birth control and even safe abortions. The ones who oppose those things are in the minority. They get what they want because the slim Republic majority comes from those states with smaller populations. So basically the minority is both governing and giving in to the intolerants, who dress their position up in a tortured reading of the Bible.
You are clearly very sharp and I wasn’t trying to attack the left or the right. I was merely trying to point out that there are fools on both sides, and those fools seem to get a lot of the attention.
I understand there were some big red flags with Trump prior to his election, and I understand some/many politicians were willing to work with him had things gone better, but in the mainstream (for most people) he was written off. And I mentioned that many Republicans did the same for Obama. I had to address Obama’s election repeatedly in my history classes, basically arguing against some of my good ole boys that the things they disliked about him had little to do with his politics.
As far as the minority fly over states winning elections, and counting issues etc. I mean that stuff has been going on for literally the entirety of the history of the US. Both sides have won elections based on the way the map fell. Is this silly considering we could easily do a popular vote in 2020? Yes. Would Democrats benefit from that system? In the immediate future, yes. Then things would happen as the other party(s) got sick of losing and they would develop strategies to win votes and we would be back in a similar situation. But it’s a progressive change I could get behind, along with term limits, and loser voting restrictions. But re-writing the rules won’t keep the politicians from playing politics.
There is some immigrant groups that cannot speak english but they are here to provide a better life for their family.
News isn’t reported fairly, and with intensity, unless it’s a murdered black person at the hands of a white person. We can go round and round about Trump, Biden, politics, and just agree to disagree. But this right here is obvious. If someone can’t acknowledge that as a fact, then “Good Lord” is an appropriate comment.
Let a white guy kill people in Chicago and see what happens with the media.
Oh. Definition of equality?
See, that’s tricky for me.
On the one hand, I am a somewhat strict stickler for logic, so “equality” means two things are exact equivalents. I’m at times practical to the point of unimaginative.
But I suspect you mean... like among people?
I’m. not sure how I would definite equality, in a moral sense. Maybe something along the line of “everyone getting the same chance to make the most of what they have by the people around them”? In reality a bit of a pipe dream, but at least you want to work towards that.
I do not know, I’m not sure I’ve ever really considered it? I dropped intro philosophy like two classes in (although there was a girl in that class who masturbated in class, so it wasn’t ALL bad.)
I rarely dodge questions, even if sometimes I should... I enjoy the discussion and debate.
Ive had a lot of teachers, and I do not recall ever having one like that. I’ve also worked with a lot of teachers, and never met one like that. Every educator I know well enough to feel that I know believes that a moral responsibility to truth and fairness, and pushing kids to develop a sense of themselves, of what they believe, is an essential part of the job... it’s almost THE essential part, outside of the simple act of loving the students and supporting them. I suspect that anyone who doesn’t have that going for them... well, they don’t last as a teacher for more than a few years... they may be better suited to be stock brokers or something
Thanks you for your response. From that, all I can say is that if my kids were still in school, they would be ahead of the curve if they had you for a teacher.
Ahh the old “well Asian and Indian families come here rich” argument. Sadly, there’s no evidence to this. What they do have? Parents that stay together, force their kids to work hard, and force them to get a degree or at least graduate high school. They don’t allow their kids to buy into the notion that they can’t get ahead in “oppressive America”.
No, she says a lot of things that make white people feel better about the things they post on anonymous message boards.
In fact, I would argue that her lawsuit lends to the idea that she might not even believe a lot of her own rhetoric.
Just stop because you are just running your mouth and don’t understand. I wonder why the numbers for single parent black homes are high...I let you figure that one out
How many Black living rooms have you been in where you have heard parents tell their kids, "you can't get ahead in oppressive America?"
I’ve already figured it out, you’re just too slow to keep up (and that has nothing to do with race).
Just like Trump wasn’t going to win in 16 either, LOL.
After all the mass demonstrations with no social distancing it will be interesting to see if there is a huge spike in covid 19 in the next two weeks.If not we may have wrecked our economy for no reason
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- what else have I said that hurt you so bad? You don’t like me calling out outrage over 10, you heard that, 10 killings? Where are blacks being gunned down in the streets by cops at the same rate they’re killed by their own? I’ll wait. I suspect, based on your other postings, you’ll have a subjective response.
- where I grew up in BMore city, anyone that gets shot is “capped”. Are you really trying to make that racial. You’ve already reached, don’t fall over now. Pathetic. A majority of whites are virtue signaling; they’ll move on just like did post-murder of Garner, sadly (I bet you’ll be one). It only helps when it fits the political cause (see X and his stance on white Liberals). Yes, I read and listen to all sides, including X. Brilliant man he was.
- yea, blacks care when it’s family or friends murdered; why wouldn’t they. Are you insinuating they aren’t human, have emotion? Wow. I just find it interesting BLM, for example, isn’t in West BMore trying to help stop the crime, especially black on black murder. Instead, they rather feed into the notion that blacks can’t advance because they’re oppressed. Sad. And why are you bringing Trump in? Do you assume I’m a Republican? Yikes, you’re way off base there (shocker).
- why not compare Asians and blacks? Are you really saying Asians aren’t discriminated against? Lmao, I just told my half-Asian wife what you said and she laughed and said “another touchy, geeky white guy feeling the moment?” Well done man.
- no, I don’t agree. America today has a structure that any race can climb up and succeed. The gov has done a big job in keep blacks overall dependent on them, making it easy for fathers to leave, and mothers to get pregnant before getting out of high school. You want to blame the white race for that I’m sure, but I won’t play that game. Races of all kind, in power, have used the black race for votes/political strategy. It’s sickening, and white liberals like yourself still do the same thing (to advance your party and feel good mentality).
- you’re not for abolishing the police, probably because you’re anti-gun, so you wouldn’t be able to protect your family. Makes sense. All good there.
- you cited 5 people involved in police on citizen crime, but ignore the fact that, again, blacks at 12% of population, commit 53% of all murders. Gee, I wonder why some police, particularly in high crime areas like west BMore, proceed with caution? Insane, right?
And with Tamir Rice, it was very, very sad. Such a young kid and such a confusing situation. Why didn’t the kid drop the damn thing? It was clearly shown in evidence that Loehmann yelled to the kid repeatedly but Tamir didn’t listen. I had a good friend (mixed race) on BMore city police that shot and killed a black kid who had a flip phone but would shown his hands. My friend pleaded with the kid but the kid wouldn’t listen and some witnesses were saying they thought it was a gun. The kid finally pulled it fast and pointed it at which point my friend shot and killed the kid. My friend was clearly found innocent but he still retired and is messed up in the head today from it and the guilt. Had my friend been white? He’d be all over the news.
You keep going on subjectivity, I’ll stick to stats/facts.
There’s still going to be spikes as we are now testing at a high clip. It’s just not nearly as lethal as led on to believe (which I kept trying to say from day one here).
Yes but I am referring to massive spikes that many experts have claimed that we would have if we didn’t close down everything
Trump can’t string together two coherent sentences. Have you seen his ridiculous press conferences? It is embarrassing how inarticulate the President is. She knows how to hone in on issues and make points.
Gotcha, yea we were played, sadly. It’s a trial run for more to come though, so be ready. No conspiracy here, just based on info we are getting in my line of work.
That’s my point. She was an awful AG, senator , etc. She got clobbered in debates, and can barely formulate sentences either. Hell Biden has a better chance lol!
