The New Lounge

[Dattier]

Unfortunately you are trapped in the prison of two ideas. For me to be right you have to be wrong and vice versa, and you aren't capable of acknowledging that...you epitomize why the country is divided...right and wrong are the only standards we accept now so we divide each other along those ideological lines. However, there are no or few absolutes outside of science...the grey areas between one sides right and the other side wrong is where we need to get to so that we can all agree...to do that you have to be open to different perspectives. I hope you will try that at some point. And i can acknowledge i have my own work to do here as well...we all do.

There is no gray area when it comes to a true "yes or no" question. Are gay people fighting for the things I listed? Yes. Periodt. There is no "maybe; "there is no "no." I am right. You can choose to be right or wrong, but in order to be right, you have to agree with me on that specific question.

Did UConn win the men's NCAA basketball championship for the 2022-2023 season? I don't like the answer, but there is no gray area.

Whether gay people should receive the things they are fighting for is where the gray area is relevant.

Was UConn the best men's basketball team in the NCAA for the 2022-2023 season? They have a case for it... but so does Alabama. So do Houston, Kansas, Purdue, and probably others. That's where there is gray area.

 

[Dattier]

Which part lol reprobate or catholic

The insinuation that ALL of us progressive reprobates think that.

 

[Dattier]

Why would my child not be allowed to go back to school? I never gave indication of that

Dude... Seriously?
"Should your child be allowed to return to school and state that Johnny's homelife is sinful?" I can revise that first part to "When your child returns to school" if you need me to, but it seemed rather obvious to me that my real question had to do with that last bit.

 

[Dattier]

Not at all.. I would simply explain people do not have two dads.. a mom (birthing person? I think you call them) exist or did exist for this person to live.. even a 2 year old knows babies come only from women.

lol Touché re: "birthing person"

The book about someone w/ two dads doesn't get into their sex life at all, either. It's just showing students that other family structures exist.

I highly doubt I would know the end and outs of johnnys step dad/dad situation but if I knew johnnys parents ( mom, dad, step dad) yeah I would tell them that’s his step dad not his biological father

Hey, can we call this hypothetical kid Jonx from now on, since we don't know their actual gender? (...I keed, I keed.)

If you also knew the biological dad b/c you all grew up in the same podunk hometown b/c of course you did... (another joke) and he was still part of Johnny's life, that makes sense, but if he's completely out of the picture and you never knew him -- you just knew the cis male parental figure at home was indeed a stepdad -- would you insist on correcting your child and specifying that he was a stepdad? Like, if little Jonx has known no other father figure than his stepfather and has referred to him as "Dad" since before starting school, would you actually insist on differentiating? If so, why?

 

[Dattier]

As for religion- I agree Islam is an actual religion, I call it false in its doctrine, it’s god, everything.. however it does exist, but you know that.

As for voting yes I would say some people believe differently then us(same as religion) but this is what we believe in this household.. as for other things no my way isn’t the only way however I’m not bending on something that truly matters as In religion or politics. But I’m all for you having the freedom to worship/vote for whomever you’d like

I'm glad to know you acknowledge the difference. We are so, so far apart on so many issues, no, that was not something I felt I could assume.

It sounds to me like your kids are way younger than mine (22. 19, & 13). There comes a time where "this is what we believe in this household" doesn't cut it anymore, and if you want your kids to be independent, critical thinkers, eventually you have to make room for that. That's not something that was as clear to me when my oldest was 8. Just sayin...

About goalposts... I'm not moving them. I've accepted your answers and asked follow-ups.

 

[GhostOf301]

Here in NC, the age of consent is 16. I am not in favor of lowering it, and have not heard of anyone interested in lowering it. Who are you referring to, specifically, and where?

I am not referring to anyone of importance. Just the weirdos. They exist. I am not worried about it actually happening. Just giving an example of how some people will never think this country is tolerant enough.

It's fascinating to me how you -- of all people -- edited the post you were replying to, and where you went with your reply. I mean, the quotation marks kinda cover it, but just to be clear, they followed what you've quoted w/ the parenthetical "not really," clearly distancing themselves from anything approaching a rousing endorsement. They then go on to say something I heard you, specifically, say all the time about President Trump: that you did not condone his personal behavior, but you approved of the policies he supported.

Did you not recognize yourself in that in any way? Did you even read that far? Or was the "child diddler" card just burning a hole through your hands and you had to play it regardless?

I intentionally ignored the meat of his post and left the part that I did because that is the kind of response that guy has earned. So what you are saying here is moot. He made a comment that we are not nearly tolerant enough. Which is very untrue. The type of intolerance that people worry themselves with is of the isolated and unimportant nature. Much like racism. I gave an example of how people like him, not real people, but people like him will never think we are tolerant enough. While speaking of a segment of progressives, albeit a small segment, that flirts with the idea that if a child can distinguish right from wrong, they can give consent. His response was to bring up catholic molesters and a disturbing quote from Trump. He doesn't want to see that his comment that we are not tolerant enough is anything but true.

 

[smashmouth5]

He gone...

 

[pisgah101]

The insinuation that ALL of us progressive reprobates think that.

This might be our common ground lol

 

[pisgah101]

Dude... Seriously?
"Should your child be allowed to return to school and state that Johnny's homelife is sinful?" I can revise that first part to "When your child returns to school" if you need me to, but it seemed rather obvious to me that my real question had to do with that last bit.

I think that my child should do what they feel is right if they want to go to school and say that.

 

[pisgah101]

lol Touché re: "birthing person"

The book about someone w/ two dads doesn't get into their sex life at all, either. It's just showing students that other family structures exist.


Hey, can we call this hypothetical kid Jonx from now on, since we don't know their actual gender? (...I keed, I keed.)

If you also knew the biological dad b/c you all grew up in the same podunk hometown b/c of course you did... (another joke) and he was still part of Johnny's life, that makes sense, but if he's completely out of the picture and you never knew him -- you just knew the cis male parental figure at home was indeed a stepdad -- would you insist on correcting your child and specifying that he was a stepdad? Like, if little Jonx has known no other father figure than his stepfather and has referred to him as "Dad" since before starting school, would you actually insist on differentiating? If so, why?

In that situation I would not.

 

[pisgah101]

I'm glad to know you acknowledge the difference. We are so, so far apart on so many issues, no, that was not something I felt I could assume.

It sounds to me like your kids are way younger than mine (22. 19, & 13). There comes a time where "this is what we believe in this household" doesn't cut it anymore, and if you want your kids to be independent, critical thinkers, eventually you have to make room for that. That's not something that was as clear to me when my oldest was 8. Just sayin...

About goalposts... I'm not moving them. I've accepted your answers and asked follow-ups.

They are I have 2 daughters- 4 and 1.5- but I agree there will be a time for that BUT I feel my job as a parent(and yours) is to instill the values in them that WE believe to be true In hopes that when they can decide on their own they will have a strong moral compass to do what they believe is right.

 

[GhostOf301]

Nm I don't know how to post pictures anymore.

 

[GhostOf301]

 

[IFaZe]

Life will not go on 😂

 

[eldritchorifice]

I am not referring to anyone of importance. Just the weirdos. They exist. I am not worried about it actually happening. Just giving an example of how some people will never think this country is tolerant enough.

I intentionally ignored the meat of his post and left the part that I did because that is the kind of response that guy has earned. So what you are saying here is moot. He made a comment that we are not nearly tolerant enough. Which is very untrue. The type of intolerance that people worry themselves with is of the isolated and unimportant nature. Much like racism. I gave an example of how people like him, not real people, but people like him will never think we are tolerant enough. While speaking of a segment of progressives, albeit a small segment, that flirts with the idea that if a child can distinguish right from wrong, they can give consent. His response was to bring up catholic molesters and a disturbing quote from Trump. He doesn't want to see that his comment that we are not tolerant enough is anything but true.

You know, I tried at first to come on this board and have reasonable debates with y’all, like Dattier is still doing. It just just became readily apparent that anything I said was just going to be shit on by people who don’t actually understand what they are talking about.

All I got was the typical right wing response of being called either stupid, evil, incompetent, troll. For simply trying to talk. You all have earned the short, quippy responses you’re getting now.

As far as tolerance goes, my dude you told Dattier that you will never respect his beliefs. Respect and tolerance go hand in hand, and you can’t tolerate people who disagree with you or prove you wrong.

 

[eldritchorifice]

US 2024 hopeful DeSantis targets three federal departments for elimination

Florida Governor Ron DeSantis would seek to eliminate the Departments of Energy, Commerce and Education, as well as the Internal Revenue Service, if he were elected president, he suggested in a television interview on Wednesday.

www.reuters.com

This guy would be a worse President than Trump.

 

[GhostOf301]

You know, I tried at first to come on this board and have reasonable debates with y’all,

Horse shit.

 

[GhostOf301]

As far as tolerance goes, my dude you told Dattier that you will never respect his beliefs. Respect and tolerance go hand in hand, and you can’t tolerate people who disagree with you or prove you wrong.

You really thought you made a good point here, didn't you? Terrible.

 

[Dattier]

I am not referring to anyone of importance. Just the weirdos. They exist. I am not worried about it actually happening. Just giving an example of how some people will never think this country is tolerant enough.

I intentionally ignored the meat of his post and left the part that I did because that is the kind of response that guy has earned. So what you are saying here is moot. He made a comment that we are not nearly tolerant enough. Which is very untrue. The type of intolerance that people worry themselves with is of the isolated and unimportant nature. Much like racism. I gave an example of how people like him, not real people, but people like him will never think we are tolerant enough. While speaking of a segment of progressives, albeit a small segment, that flirts with the idea that if a child can distinguish right from wrong, they can give consent. His response was to bring up catholic molesters and a disturbing quote from Trump. He doesn't want to see that his comment that we are not tolerant enough is anything but true.

Okay. I haven't spent a lot of time delving into his posts, largely b/c I see his tactical approach as flawed in similar ways I can recognize I've been guilty of. (It's always easier to look outside than it is to look inside, y'know?)

Do you have room for recognizing that there may be ways in which his overall, ham-fisted statement about conservative intolerance may hold more truth than what you observe?

I don't think we'll ever be perfect, so it stands to reason there will always be areas where we can improve. The religious right should be in agreement about that. For those people directly and detrimentally affected by those imperfections, it will always feel urgent and extreme, and why wouldn't it? When it comes to racism, LGBTQ+ rights, etc, advocacy for additional improvements/changes is usually from the left. Resistance is usually from the right.

 

[Dattier]

I think that my child should do what they feel is right if they want to go to school and say that.

You mentioned that your child would not be alone in being told it was sin. What if they all went in and started telling Jonx their home life was sinful?

Do you see how that could amount to harassment and bullying? Do you know that schools have the legal authority to limit manifestations of rights that interfere w/ their mission? They do. They pretty much have to have that legal authority. If your child's religious freedom is manifested in such ways that it interferes w/ the foundational environment necessary for another child's learning, your child will not be allowed to express their religious beliefs in that way.

In that vein, having a book in the room that promotes tolerance of Jonx's family makes a lot of sense, and it is a pretty gentle way of doing it. It is also representation. If a class of 25 kids has 24 white kids and 1 Black kid, it would make sense to have at least a few books available w/ Black characters, right? Even Black characters involved in historical contexts related to racism, Civil Rights, etc, right? Nobody gets up in arms about MLK's sex life being shoved down their kids' throats, do they? (Okay, that last one is deliberately ridiculous.) And I think we would agree that certain race-related things belong in far more prominent places in the curriculum even if every student in the class is white -- that slavery was a thing (by the end of elementary school), that segregation was a thing (by the end of middle school), details about Jim Crow (in high school), Rosa Parks & MLK (probs earliest of all -- I mean, have you seen how much of a softball some of those books are?).

If you told your child something was sinful and then, in your presence, they literally started screaming in terror, you would be like, "sheesh, calm down, kid," right? That book in a classroom is really just there to say the same thing: calm down, it has no bearing on what we're here to do today.

 

[eldritchorifice]

Horse shit.

You can check the post history lol. I absolutely came in here up for some good-faith debate. All I got in return was the 4 or 5 of y’all attacking me.

 

[GhostOf301]

Do you have room for recognizing that there may be ways in which his overall, ham-fisted statement about conservative intolerance may hold more truth than what you observe?

No. Because it is far more subjective than he is acting like it is. Mainly because it hypocritical and one-sided. You guys act like the left has a patent on tolerance.

I don't think we'll ever be perfect, so it stands to reason there will always be areas where we can improve. The religious right should be in agreement about that. For those people directly and detrimentally affected by those imperfections, it will always feel urgent and extreme, and why wouldn't it?

Of course there will always be room for improvement. Problem is, everyone thinks it's the other side that needs to improve.

When it comes to racism, LGBTQ+ rights, etc, advocacy for additional improvements/changes is usually from the left. Resistance is usually from the right.

On the surface, this may have merit. But of course it changes when you add context and talk about what really is tolerated and what really isn't. Like when conservatives say that a person with a penis should use the men's room and a person with a vagina should use the women’s room. You call that intolerant when it's just common sense. It's also not meant to keep someone who legitimately has the appearance of being what they identify as from using the bathroom that fits them. There isn't someone at the door doing dick checks or anything like that. It's just so Bob with a beard doesn't just get to throw a wig and a dress on and go whip out his hog in the little girl's room. It's also pretty annoying to see people constantly talk about intolerance on the right as if the left is tolerant of conservative lifestyles.

To be honest, I am tiring on this topic. So this isn't about having the last word, but I don't see any benefit from continuing.

 

[GhostOf301]

You can check the post history lol. I absolutely came in here up for some good-faith debate. All I got in return was the 4 or 5 of y’all attacking me.

The very first thing you did was assume everyone who isn’t on your team was some Trump loyalist who hates everyone. Fvck off.

 

[Mac9192]

You mentioned that your child would not be alone in being told it was sin. What if they all went in and started telling Jonx their home life was sinful?

Do you see how that could amount to harassment and bullying? Do you know that schools have the legal authority to limit manifestations of rights that interfere w/ their mission? They do. They pretty much have to have that legal authority. If your child's religious freedom is manifested in such ways that it interferes w/ the foundational environment necessary for another child's learning, your child will not be allowed to express their religious beliefs in that way.

If you told your child something was sinful and then, in your presence, they literally started screaming in terror, you would be like, "sheesh, calm down, kid," right? That book in a classroom is really just there to say the same thing: calm down, it has no bearing on what we're here to do today.

If a kid is brought up believing in God, then they should be told to despise the sin, but not the person. So I would expect that if Pisgahs kids are around someone with 2 “dads,” his kid wouldn’t be mean to that kid at all.

Any kid that would come in yelling at Johnny that his home life was sinful isn’t being how Jesus wants us to be.

You’re over complicating this issue.

 

[eldritchorifice]

The very first thing you did was assume everyone who isn’t on your team was some Trump loyalist who hates everyone. Fvck off.

I asked why conservatives love Trump so much and what it was he did to improve your lives. Sorry if I incorrectly lumped you in with them. The overwhelming majority of conservatives I’ve met are pretty assured of Trump’s greatness and cannot be convinced otherwise. Most of the posters in this thread are pretty convinced Trump is awesome too.

 

[smashmouth5]

You realize most people don’t care what scripture states, right? There’s literally no evidence that the Bible is anything more than an ancient comic book.

Off on the left foot. And you didn't start by asking about Trump. You instantly start by attacking someone's faith.

 

[KDSTONE]

I asked why conservatives love Trump so much and what it was he did to improve your lives. Sorry if I incorrectly lumped you in with them. The overwhelming majority of conservatives I’ve met are pretty assured of Trump’s greatness and cannot be convinced otherwise. Most of the posters in this thread are pretty convinced Trump is awesome too.

He’s only awesome when compared to the vessel currently occupying the White House and his heir apparent, who apparently can’t be replaced due her skin tone even though she is the least popular VP in hx. Even Dems hate her going by her ill fated Pres run in 2020. Many of the things Trump was vilified for, like his supposed laissez faire response to Covid, has been vindicated. The evidence is clear; not only did lockdowns and masks prove ineffective but they also destroyed many lives and businesses. Students” learning loss will never recover in many cases disproportionately affecting poor minority students. New York and Ca lost much of their tax base to the Red states. Dem policies to save us always ending up being a shit show in the end

 

[KDSTONE]

I asked why conservatives love Trump so much and what it was he did to improve your lives. Sorry if I incorrectly lumped you in with them. The overwhelming majority of conservatives I’ve met are pretty assured of Trump’s greatness and cannot be convinced otherwise. Most of the posters in this thread are pretty convinced Trump is awesome too.

When you attack someone’s belief system they will go on the defensive, which means more times than not defending Trump. He is often used as a scapegoat. The Left actually hates half the country, but its gauche to say that out loud so they lay it all on Trump

 

[KDSTONE]

You mentioned that your child would not be alone in being told it was sin. What if they all went in and started telling Jonx their home life was sinful?

Do you see how that could amount to harassment and bullying? Do you know that schools have the legal authority to limit manifestations of rights that interfere w/ their mission? They do. They pretty much have to have that legal authority. If your child's religious freedom is manifested in such ways that it interferes w/ the foundational environment necessary for another child's learning, your child will not be allowed to express their religious beliefs in that way.

In that vein, having a book in the room that promotes tolerance of Jonx's family makes a lot of sense, and it is a pretty gentle way of doing it. It is also representation. If a class of 25 kids has 24 white kids and 1 Black kid, it would make sense to have at least a few books available w/ Black characters, right? Even Black characters involved in historical contexts related to racism, Civil Rights, etc, right? Nobody gets up in arms about MLK's sex life being shoved down their kids' throats, do they? (Okay, that last one is deliberately ridiculous.) And I think we would agree that certain race-related things belong in far more prominent places in the curriculum even if every student in the class is white -- that slavery was a thing (by the end of elementary school), that segregation was a thing (by the end of middle school), details about Jim Crow (in high school), Rosa Parks & MLK (probs earliest of all -- I mean, have you seen how much of a softball some of those books are?).

If you told your child something was sinful and then, in your presence, they literally started screaming in terror, you would be like, "sheesh, calm down, kid," right? That book in a classroom is really just there to say the same thing: calm down, it has no bearing on what we're here to do today.

Those civil rights/ slavery topics are a large part of most school districts. This is a lie that they’re not being taught. In fact, many students are sick of it. My nephew asked me the other day if white people ever accomplished anything because he didn’t “know anything about the people on the money” but he could write a book about Cesar Chavez

 

[eldritchorifice]

When you attack someone’s belief system they will go on the defensive, which means more times than not defending Trump. He is often used as a scapegoat. The Left actually hates half the country, but its gauche to say that out loud so they lay it all on Trump

Didn’t attack anyone’s beliefs. Unless asking a question is an attack.

 

[eldritchorifice]

He’s only awesome when compared to the vessel currently occupying the White House and his heir apparent, who apparently can’t be replaced due her skin tone even though she is the least popular VP in hx. Even Dems hate her going by her ill fated Pres run in 2020. Many of the things Trump was vilified for, like his supposed laissez faire response to Covid, has been vindicated. The evidence is clear; not only did lockdowns and masks prove ineffective but they also destroyed many lives and businesses. Students” learning loss will never recover in many cases disproportionately affecting poor minority students. New York and Ca lost much of their tax base to the Red states. Dem policies to save us always ending up being a shit show in the end

The evidence is clear that masks were pretty effective if everyone was wearing them lol. Most businesses were kept afloat due to loans from the government that they in a lot of cases weren’t even expected to pay back.

There were countries who were more strict with Covid lockdowns and masks and they were able to get it under control quicker.

 

[GhostOf301]

The evidence is clear that masks were pretty effective if everyone was wearing them lol. Most businesses were kept afloat due to loans from the government that they in a lot of cases weren’t even expected to pay back.

There were countries who were more strict with Covid lockdowns and masks and they were able to get it under control quicker.

You are batting 0.000 here.

 

[eldritchorifice]

You are batting 0.000 here.

No u

 

[KDSTONE]

No u

Only the N95s proved effective from the studies I’ve read. Fourteen44 and others could elaborate more, but the masks that 95% of the pop used weren’t very effective if at all.

 

[KDSTONE]

The evidence is clear that masks were pretty effective if everyone was wearing them lol. Most businesses were kept afloat due to loans from the government that they in a lot of cases weren’t even expected to pay back.

There were countries who were more strict with Covid lockdowns and masks and they were able to get it under control quicker.

This is precisely the propaganda the Dems and legacy media were spewing, and you bought it hook, line, and sinker

 

[Mac9192]

Most civil minded people want employment opportunities, our country to not be involved in conflicts with other nations (you know peace), low gas prices... We had all of that from 17-20. If you took a blind poll, I don't know of anyone that would call those years bad. But in the last few years? We go to the grocery store, come out with 3 bags having spent $65.00, or spending $50 to get 15 gallons of gas.

In my business that I run, which is in a small town, something as simple as an oil change is now at least $45.00. A basic brake job just a few years ago was around $125.00, now it cost my customer $20-25 more. I'd hate to be in the market for a new home. A 1,500 sq foot house now is what a 3,000 sq foot house used to be.

I just don't see where anyone can defend what's going on now compared to when Trump was in office. You don't like him, fine. But, you can't argue with how things were when he was in office. Unless you listen to the corporate media spewing their lies and propaganda. They have been evil in what they're trying to accomplish, which is division. What's worse is they are achieving that.

The Presidents before and after Trump had us in military conflicts. We know why. War is money, and there's lots of it to be made from it.

But go ahead and whine saying "Trump doesn't act Presidential."

 

[eldritchorifice]

Only the N95s proved effective from the studies I’ve read. Fourteen44 and others could elaborate more, but the masks that 95% of the pop used weren’t very effective if at all.

Medical masks were effective. No, they didn’t stop everything, but did help stop the droplets from speaking or couching from getting other people. Especially if everyone was wearing them. Were they as effective N95? No. No one said they were.

 

[Dattier]

Those civil rights/ slavery topics are a large part of most school districts. This is a lie that they’re not being taught.

Hang on. I didn't say they weren't being taught. I was using what should be a pretty noncontroversial example in making the case for why a two-dad book would be included in a classroom.

 

[Dattier]

My nephew asked me the other day if white people ever accomplished anything because he didn’t “know anything about the people on the money” but he could write a book about Cesar Chavez

So you are in favor of representation! Yay!

 

[eldritchorifice]

Most civil minded people want employment opportunities, our country to not be involved in conflicts with other nations (you know peace), low gas prices... We had all of that from 17-20. If you took a blind poll, I don't know of anyone that would call those years bad. But in the last few years? We go to the grocery store, come out with 3 bags having spent $65.00, or spending $50 to get 15 gallons of gas.

In my business that I run, which is in a small town, something as simple as an oil change is now at least $45.00. A basic brake job just a few years ago was around $125.00, now it cost my customer $20-25 more. I'd hate to be in the market for a new home. A 1,500 sq foot house now is what a 3,000 sq foot house used to be.

I just don't see where anyone can defend what's going on now compared to when Trump was in office. You don't like him, fine. But, you can't argue with how things were when he was in office. Unless you listen to the corporate media spewing their lies and propaganda. They have been evil in what they're trying to accomplish, which is division. What's worse is they are achieving that.

The Presidents before and after Trump had us in military conflicts. We know why. War is money, and there's lots of it to be made from it.

But go ahead and whine saying "Trump doesn't act Presidential."

Okay, go ahead and explain exactly how Biden is responsible for high gas prices. Explain what exactly he did to cause them. Also show exactly how Biden is responsible for general inflation. Break down the economics of it. If you have actual evidence of the policies he instituted to drive this, then I’ll absolutely listen.