The Carolina Way VIII
- Thread starter DevilDJ
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Mark, that's hilarious. DJ, that's just plain sad. Well done, both of you! So proud to be a Dukie!
Back in tha day...
Dear Chancellor Thorp,
Like most faculty I am concerned for the reputation of the University. I heard you say those words in your presentation in the televised news conference but have not seen any definitive actions that back up those statements. I have been a faculty member for 31 years. I also played a varsity sport (baseball) in college at the division I level.
There has been a problem here in the football program since the day that I arrived. A neighbor of mine in Colony Woods was a Political Science professor who had a lot of players in his course. Somehow he always managed to ride in the front of the team's private chartered jet even though he was of modest means and the players who took his course {there were several) always passed.
A math professor who lived across the street told me about a famous running back who did not quality to take algebra 1 who cheated on the final exam in a "kiddie" math course that he wasn't even taking for credit. His case went before the honor court so it is a matter of record.
My next door neighbor now a Political Science professor at Emory, was called by an assistant football coach and asked to change a famous running backs grade. You are welcome to call as I'm sure he wouldn't mind telling you the story.
The former baseball coach told me that two of the most famous football players did not have combined SAT scores over 1000.This was before the current rules that don't permit that to occur.
My point is that your statement that implied in the past we have always done the right thing while maybe politically necessary at the moment misses the mark. This problem has been around a long time. Bill Friday talks about just about every week.
Because it has been around a long time and Dickie Baddour has worked here longer than 1 have he has known about it for at least as long as I have. What measures did he take when he became athletic director to do something about it? I am not interested in what he is doing now that his feet are being held to the fire I want to know what he did the first month he was on the job? What were Dickie's credentials for that job other than the fact that he was well liked by the employees in the athletic office? Sure he is a nice guy but how much respect does a big time football coach who is used to getting pretty much getting his way with everything have for his opinion?
A former head of the Rams club told me that Coach Davis made some outrageous financial requests when he got here that Dickie said yes to everything and he got what he requested. Some other people in the athletic program weren't real happy about that but so much for Coach Davis being a team player. Is it ridiculous to assume that if a bunch of 19 year olds observe that kind of behavior that maybe they will think they are entitled to go to a "free party in Miami?"
As faculty and loyal supporters of the University I and my colleagues are counting on you to do the right thing. You have already lost precious time and every day that you wait to make a decision only damages your own credibility and that of the University.
If there is no evidence that either Dick Baddour or coach Davis did anything substantive prospectively to prevent this then there is only one decision that will clear the air and restore some measure of respect which this University truly deserves.
Sincerely,
David Clemmons
Kenan Professor of Medicine
From: Thorp, Holden Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 5:52 PM
To: Clemmons, David R
Subject: RE: The integrity of UNC
David,
Thanks for your note, I am deeply concerned about the situation. We will keep working diligently until we get this straightened out.
Holden
Dear Chancellor Thorp,
Like most faculty I am concerned for the reputation of the University. I heard you say those words in your presentation in the televised news conference but have not seen any definitive actions that back up those statements. I have been a faculty member for 31 years. I also played a varsity sport (baseball) in college at the division I level.
There has been a problem here in the football program since the day that I arrived. A neighbor of mine in Colony Woods was a Political Science professor who had a lot of players in his course. Somehow he always managed to ride in the front of the team's private chartered jet even though he was of modest means and the players who took his course {there were several) always passed.
A math professor who lived across the street told me about a famous running back who did not quality to take algebra 1 who cheated on the final exam in a "kiddie" math course that he wasn't even taking for credit. His case went before the honor court so it is a matter of record.
My next door neighbor now a Political Science professor at Emory, was called by an assistant football coach and asked to change a famous running backs grade. You are welcome to call as I'm sure he wouldn't mind telling you the story.
The former baseball coach told me that two of the most famous football players did not have combined SAT scores over 1000.This was before the current rules that don't permit that to occur.
My point is that your statement that implied in the past we have always done the right thing while maybe politically necessary at the moment misses the mark. This problem has been around a long time. Bill Friday talks about just about every week.
Because it has been around a long time and Dickie Baddour has worked here longer than 1 have he has known about it for at least as long as I have. What measures did he take when he became athletic director to do something about it? I am not interested in what he is doing now that his feet are being held to the fire I want to know what he did the first month he was on the job? What were Dickie's credentials for that job other than the fact that he was well liked by the employees in the athletic office? Sure he is a nice guy but how much respect does a big time football coach who is used to getting pretty much getting his way with everything have for his opinion?
A former head of the Rams club told me that Coach Davis made some outrageous financial requests when he got here that Dickie said yes to everything and he got what he requested. Some other people in the athletic program weren't real happy about that but so much for Coach Davis being a team player. Is it ridiculous to assume that if a bunch of 19 year olds observe that kind of behavior that maybe they will think they are entitled to go to a "free party in Miami?"
As faculty and loyal supporters of the University I and my colleagues are counting on you to do the right thing. You have already lost precious time and every day that you wait to make a decision only damages your own credibility and that of the University.
If there is no evidence that either Dick Baddour or coach Davis did anything substantive prospectively to prevent this then there is only one decision that will clear the air and restore some measure of respect which this University truly deserves.
Sincerely,
David Clemmons
Kenan Professor of Medicine
From: Thorp, Holden Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 5:52 PM
To: Clemmons, David R
Subject: RE: The integrity of UNC
David,
Thanks for your note, I am deeply concerned about the situation. We will keep working diligently until we get this straightened out.
Holden
Take this with a grain of salt, but it sounds like things could get worse for the Cheats if this new LD diganoses/drugs info gets traction..
packphinsfan
All-ACC
Rating: 2.9/5 this site
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Re: UNCheat Scandal-Fake LD Diagnoses & Drugs vs. Fake
11:39 AM
(3 votes)
I just talked to a BIG reporter who is now re interested in UNC. Bluedevilicious is going to be very popular... When I say BIG I mean national... and no I wont identify, keep`em guessin`!
packphinsfan
All-ACC
Rating: 2.9/5 this site
10997 posts this site
Re: UNCheat Scandal-Fake LD Diagnoses & Drugs vs. Fake
11:39 AM
(3 votes)
I just talked to a BIG reporter who is now re interested in UNC. Bluedevilicious is going to be very popular... When I say BIG I mean national... and no I wont identify, keep`em guessin`!
Amy Kleissler is no longer at unx. She sells shoes now. She hired one of her former unx colleagues. Ya mighta heard of 'im. Lol. Anyway , lotsa her whining and phony commiserating here but I really liked the part where she says...
"I figure they ( the jocks ) may not digest all the material they need in order to do well in a particular course , but even small skills that they learn from us will help them somewhere down the line."
Howso , Amy? Serious question. What , exactly , are those "small skills?" Paper classes? Independent Study? Gawd , unx needs to burn. Did everything possible to keep kids OUT of the classroom now Amy ( among others ) has delusions of grandeur. And B-Rad made a love-letter doc for these types. Unreal...
"I figure they ( the jocks ) may not digest all the material they need in order to do well in a particular course , but even small skills that they learn from us will help them somewhere down the line."
Howso , Amy? Serious question. What , exactly , are those "small skills?" Paper classes? Independent Study? Gawd , unx needs to burn. Did everything possible to keep kids OUT of the classroom now Amy ( among others ) has delusions of grandeur. And B-Rad made a love-letter doc for these types. Unreal...
Posted: Today 8:07 AM Re: UNCheat Scandal-Fake LD Diagnoses & Drugs vs. Fake
st8dukegrad87
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No, this ( AD/LDHD "prong" ) has nothing to do with the current COI. The NCAA will punish UNC-CH and other personnel severely based on the NOA.
Posted: Today 8:07 AM Re: UNCheat Scandal-Fake LD Diagnoses & Drugs vs. Fake
st8dukegrad87
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I keep hearing Feb-May as a timeframe for an announcement of punishment. Today was an important milestone for UNC-CH to get signing day behind them. As stated before the NCAA wants to make sure the punishment is rock solid as they believe UNC-CH will attempt to fight it. UNC-CH will want to fight to make it appear they are the victim to appease the kool-aid drinkers.
Posted: Today 8:07 AM Re: UNCheat Scandal-Fake LD Diagnoses & Drugs vs. Fake
st8dukegrad87
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Syracuse appealed and won a change in Boeheim's suspension as it was not consistent with Brown's suspension at SMU. USC also fought their sanctions through the appeals process. The NCAA has to assume that UNc-CH's defiant behavior will continue after sanctions are announced so they have to be prepared to fight UNC-CH.
The NCAA is not happy with UNC-CH behavior in this process.
Posted: Today 8:07 AM Re: UNCheat Scandal-Fake LD Diagnoses & Drugs vs. Fake
st8dukegrad87
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The NCAA charged them in a way that is bullet proof as they have the evidence (transcripts, Wainstein Report and emails, SACS communication, testimony, etc). This is why the charges are only 2002-2011. This is a little different approach vs a prosecutor as they frequently over charge in hope of getting a plea deal or a conviction on one charge. If I charge with 10 counts of murder but I only get a conviction on 1 count the defendant is still going to jail for a long time.
The NCAA process is different so it is critical to charge on what you know you can prove. If UNC-CH can cast doubt on one charge they will try and use that as evidence that most counts are incorrect. UNC-CH will try to use their PR team after sanctions are announced so the NCAA needs to prove their case in an overwhelming manner as UNC-CH is like the "affluenza" kid and they know this case sets a type of precedent.
The UNC-cH trust fund kids are all in to protect basketball and they do not care about anything else. They want to continue to see drugged up African American kids playing basketball from their lower level Smith Center seats. These people have generations of money and they do not care about the academic reputation of UNC-CH. These people think academics are a bunch of geeks anyway.
st8dukegrad87
6th Man Rating: 3.5/5 this site
3013 posts this site
Ignore this Member
Send Private Message
No, this ( AD/LDHD "prong" ) has nothing to do with the current COI. The NCAA will punish UNC-CH and other personnel severely based on the NOA.
Posted: Today 8:07 AM Re: UNCheat Scandal-Fake LD Diagnoses & Drugs vs. Fake
st8dukegrad87
6th Man Rating: 3.5/5 this site
3013 posts this site
Ignore this Member
Send Private Message
I keep hearing Feb-May as a timeframe for an announcement of punishment. Today was an important milestone for UNC-CH to get signing day behind them. As stated before the NCAA wants to make sure the punishment is rock solid as they believe UNC-CH will attempt to fight it. UNC-CH will want to fight to make it appear they are the victim to appease the kool-aid drinkers.
Posted: Today 8:07 AM Re: UNCheat Scandal-Fake LD Diagnoses & Drugs vs. Fake
st8dukegrad87
6th Man Rating: 3.5/5 this site
3013 posts this site
Ignore this Member
Send Private Message
Syracuse appealed and won a change in Boeheim's suspension as it was not consistent with Brown's suspension at SMU. USC also fought their sanctions through the appeals process. The NCAA has to assume that UNc-CH's defiant behavior will continue after sanctions are announced so they have to be prepared to fight UNC-CH.
The NCAA is not happy with UNC-CH behavior in this process.
Posted: Today 8:07 AM Re: UNCheat Scandal-Fake LD Diagnoses & Drugs vs. Fake
st8dukegrad87
6th Man Rating: 3.5/5 this site
3013 posts this site
Ignore this Member
Send Private Message
The NCAA charged them in a way that is bullet proof as they have the evidence (transcripts, Wainstein Report and emails, SACS communication, testimony, etc). This is why the charges are only 2002-2011. This is a little different approach vs a prosecutor as they frequently over charge in hope of getting a plea deal or a conviction on one charge. If I charge with 10 counts of murder but I only get a conviction on 1 count the defendant is still going to jail for a long time.
The NCAA process is different so it is critical to charge on what you know you can prove. If UNC-CH can cast doubt on one charge they will try and use that as evidence that most counts are incorrect. UNC-CH will try to use their PR team after sanctions are announced so the NCAA needs to prove their case in an overwhelming manner as UNC-CH is like the "affluenza" kid and they know this case sets a type of precedent.
The UNC-cH trust fund kids are all in to protect basketball and they do not care about anything else. They want to continue to see drugged up African American kids playing basketball from their lower level Smith Center seats. These people have generations of money and they do not care about the academic reputation of UNC-CH. These people think academics are a bunch of geeks anyway.
Ain't it funny how no one will ask Fed ( or Roy or Sylvia... ) how they KNOW what the NCAA will eventually do to their programs? It's the most obvious follow-up question in the world yet NC media cowers from it. Shameful.
unx alum Bob Lee...
THE BIGGEST NEWS this week is from “amid Kenan’s Lofty Pines”.
Yes, Indeedy. The University of North Carolina @ Chapel Hill formally unveiled its long-awaited and much ballyhooed:
We’re Gonna Have One Too… So There – Snazzy IPF Website
If anything can muscle its way onto a crowded Global Front Page it’s gotta be THIS. Surely THIS will awaken that Ol’ Sleeping Giant by golly!
NOTE: For those of you keeping count, this will be the third such totally unnecessary facility in The Triangle joining Duke’s and NC State’s. Leaving only NCCU, Shaw, St Augustine’s and Cardinal Gibbons without one. Yet.
Specifically timed to bedazzle those aforementioned Semi-Literate “world-class student-athletes”…. this $20,000,000+ hunk of Totally Superfluous Recruiting Bling will immediately join the UNC Black Cultural Center as in-yo-face examples of What Is Really Important at A World-Class “Punchline” of a once respected institution
UNC Announces It’s Latest Ridiculous Monument To Misplaced Priorities…..
COMMENTS:
ELROD
Just think, BL. If the “leadership” had just been adults after Marvin hit ‘send’, their new IPF would already be paid for and Chancellor Chihuahua could buy a whole bunch of lapel ribbons.
BOBLEE
Well yeah… and if Dickie had a clue… and if frogs had wings. I’m not sure “not being adults” was the isuue as much as being blind-drunk from decades of addiction to Carolina Way Wine…
PORCOPHILE
They’re going to need more than that to attract “world class student athletes” if the NCAA hits them with a ban on post-season play.
BOBLEE
OH THAT! “That” is all just a buncha made-up crap by all those stoopid people that are jealous of how wunderful UNC is….
.
http://bobleesays.com/2016/02/03/unc-announces-we-gonna-have-one-too/
THE BIGGEST NEWS this week is from “amid Kenan’s Lofty Pines”.
Yes, Indeedy. The University of North Carolina @ Chapel Hill formally unveiled its long-awaited and much ballyhooed:
We’re Gonna Have One Too… So There – Snazzy IPF Website
If anything can muscle its way onto a crowded Global Front Page it’s gotta be THIS. Surely THIS will awaken that Ol’ Sleeping Giant by golly!
NOTE: For those of you keeping count, this will be the third such totally unnecessary facility in The Triangle joining Duke’s and NC State’s. Leaving only NCCU, Shaw, St Augustine’s and Cardinal Gibbons without one. Yet.
Specifically timed to bedazzle those aforementioned Semi-Literate “world-class student-athletes”…. this $20,000,000+ hunk of Totally Superfluous Recruiting Bling will immediately join the UNC Black Cultural Center as in-yo-face examples of What Is Really Important at A World-Class “Punchline” of a once respected institution
UNC Announces It’s Latest Ridiculous Monument To Misplaced Priorities…..
COMMENTS:
ELROD
Just think, BL. If the “leadership” had just been adults after Marvin hit ‘send’, their new IPF would already be paid for and Chancellor Chihuahua could buy a whole bunch of lapel ribbons.
BOBLEE
Well yeah… and if Dickie had a clue… and if frogs had wings. I’m not sure “not being adults” was the isuue as much as being blind-drunk from decades of addiction to Carolina Way Wine…
PORCOPHILE
They’re going to need more than that to attract “world class student athletes” if the NCAA hits them with a ban on post-season play.
BOBLEE
OH THAT! “That” is all just a buncha made-up crap by all those stoopid people that are jealous of how wunderful UNC is….
.http://bobleesays.com/2016/02/03/unc-announces-we-gonna-have-one-too/
This is beyond ridiculous!! When is UNC going to get their just punishment for this scandal? What is the NCAA (or whoever) waiting for?
Lyin' sack...
UNC coach Larry Fedora: NCAA cloud has dissipated and people are tired of it
Fedora: “People are tired of hearing about it ... there’s been a lot of crying wolf”
During his national signing day press conference last year, in February 2015, North Carolina coach Larry Fedora sounded exasperated by the continued uncertainty surrounding the long-running NCAA infractions case at UNC.
He said then that he and his staff had to address questions about the case “on a daily basis.”
“When you feel like you've got things calmed down and somebody else makes up something else and tells a kid and his family (something) so then you have to, you obviously have to address it and put that fire out so they know the truth,” Fedora said last year. “It's something that's going to continue to happen until we get it all straightened out.”
The case hasn't been straightened out. Not exactly, anyway.
But Fedora said on Wednesday during his annual signing day press conference that the unresolved NCAA case had much less of an effect on recruiting than it has in years past.
“I really believe that cloud that's been hanging over our head for the previous four years (has) dissipated,” Fedora said. “... It's not there. It's not like it was.”
It appears likely that the NCAA case won't conclude until sometime in the fall, at the earliest. UNC continues to await an amended Notice of Allegations (NOA) from the NCAA after the university provided new information, mostly related to women's basketball, to the NCAA in August.
...After that happens, it could be another two or three months, or more, before the infractions committee issues a final ruling in the case. In other words: A resolution is still a long ways off.
Throughout the entire ordeal, though, Fedora has expressed confidence that his program won't be affected by any sanctions.
Fedora never anticipated that he'd still be answering questions about the NCAA more than four years after his arrival, but that's his reality. And yet he senses an end point, even though the end of the case is still a ways away.
Other schools still attempted to use the NCAA case against Fedora's program on the recruiting trail. Fedora and his staff still had to be on the defense, at times. But not like it used to be.
“And even though I think people still try to use that out there, I just think people are tired of hearing about it,” Fedora said. “And they know that there's been a lot of crying wolf about what's going to happen and none of those things have happened.
“And so I think they feel pretty comfortable with what we're saying, and they know that we're moving forward. And so we really haven't looked back on it.”
http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/unc-now/article58384383.html
Exactly HOW corrupt is unx AND their shameless win-at-all-costs football coach? Stating flatly to recruits that sanctions aren't forthcoming outta one side of his mouth while freely acknowledging that those "clouds" have yet to actually , you know , "dissipate." On top of it , he tosses in the "cry WOLF" quote. Wonder who THAT was aimed at? Geez Louise , even unx cabana boy Carter concedes an end isn't yet in sight. Honestly , if this were Duke I'd turn in my fan card. unx'ers? They double down to defend this crap. Disgusting.
UNC coach Larry Fedora: NCAA cloud has dissipated and people are tired of it
Fedora: “People are tired of hearing about it ... there’s been a lot of crying wolf”
During his national signing day press conference last year, in February 2015, North Carolina coach Larry Fedora sounded exasperated by the continued uncertainty surrounding the long-running NCAA infractions case at UNC.
He said then that he and his staff had to address questions about the case “on a daily basis.”
“When you feel like you've got things calmed down and somebody else makes up something else and tells a kid and his family (something) so then you have to, you obviously have to address it and put that fire out so they know the truth,” Fedora said last year. “It's something that's going to continue to happen until we get it all straightened out.”
The case hasn't been straightened out. Not exactly, anyway.
But Fedora said on Wednesday during his annual signing day press conference that the unresolved NCAA case had much less of an effect on recruiting than it has in years past.
“I really believe that cloud that's been hanging over our head for the previous four years (has) dissipated,” Fedora said. “... It's not there. It's not like it was.”
It appears likely that the NCAA case won't conclude until sometime in the fall, at the earliest. UNC continues to await an amended Notice of Allegations (NOA) from the NCAA after the university provided new information, mostly related to women's basketball, to the NCAA in August.
...After that happens, it could be another two or three months, or more, before the infractions committee issues a final ruling in the case. In other words: A resolution is still a long ways off.
Throughout the entire ordeal, though, Fedora has expressed confidence that his program won't be affected by any sanctions.
Fedora never anticipated that he'd still be answering questions about the NCAA more than four years after his arrival, but that's his reality. And yet he senses an end point, even though the end of the case is still a ways away.
Other schools still attempted to use the NCAA case against Fedora's program on the recruiting trail. Fedora and his staff still had to be on the defense, at times. But not like it used to be.
“And even though I think people still try to use that out there, I just think people are tired of hearing about it,” Fedora said. “And they know that there's been a lot of crying wolf about what's going to happen and none of those things have happened.
“And so I think they feel pretty comfortable with what we're saying, and they know that we're moving forward. And so we really haven't looked back on it.”
http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/unc-now/article58384383.html
Exactly HOW corrupt is unx AND their shameless win-at-all-costs football coach? Stating flatly to recruits that sanctions aren't forthcoming outta one side of his mouth while freely acknowledging that those "clouds" have yet to actually , you know , "dissipate." On top of it , he tosses in the "cry WOLF" quote. Wonder who THAT was aimed at? Geez Louise , even unx cabana boy Carter concedes an end isn't yet in sight. Honestly , if this were Duke I'd turn in my fan card. unx'ers? They double down to defend this crap. Disgusting.
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