5:20 mark. Roy's still "tired of the junk..."
http://www.scout.com/college/north-...m_medium=HootSuitePost&utm_campaign=HootSuite
http://www.scout.com/college/north-...m_medium=HootSuitePost&utm_campaign=HootSuite
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- Thread starter DevilDJ
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Roy's so arrogant...I think he really comes across as condescending when referring to serious academic matters as "junk." Its so interesting he became "CONCERNED" with players "clustering" in certain classes AFTER he won the 2005 natty....
Oh wait, EXCUSE ME, I forgot his ORIGINAL STORY- " maybe they just decided to start taking different classes."
#Liar
#RoyKnew
Oh wait, EXCUSE ME, I forgot his ORIGINAL STORY- " maybe they just decided to start taking different classes."
#Liar
#RoyKnew
If I was Roy, I would blame it on the Russians
Check the new Dan Kane. Football AND basketball added to new ANOA. #HowWillThisAffectRecruiting? Lol
This is a sweet Christmas present even though I'm still skeptical the cheaters get what they deserve. I'll hold out hope though.
This is the most brutal NOA they have received to date. Men's basketball specifically named as well as Roy Williams. If this is the final NOA they are judged by there could be some dark days coming for the cheaters. We will probably find out 10 years from now haha!
https://carolinacommitment.unc.edu/files/2016/12/NCAA-third-notice-of-allegations.pdf
https://carolinacommitment.unc.edu/files/2016/12/NCAA-third-notice-of-allegations.pdf
NCAA gonna use Wainstein and SACS too. Look , I have no idea what will happen. Maybe nuthin.' Wouldn't shock me at all. But Wainstein was the only thing close to a legit look-see into this mess and we saw how all that worked out. And SACS? FUGGGHEDDABBOUDDIT! Massively damaging to unx. They even admitted to academic fraud...something unx has refused to do when dealing with the NCAA. Long story short , how can the NCAA use those 2 investigations and NOT bury unx? Still think they'll skate but the moment they do , I wish the P5 would tell the NCAA to go EFF themselves and start their own thing. No point in having 'em around if corruption like that at unx is allowed to go unsanctioned...
I'm convinced that Greg Barnes ( and others ) are part and parcel of unx's PR and defense. That said , let's enjoy the in-fighting and hand-wringing among unx fans but let's not for one second think this is over. Six years in. The holes are committed. Almost HAVE to be at this point. Untold millions spent just to finally throw themselves at the mercy of the NCAA? Sorry. I can't get there. Stories like the next one are important indicators of unx's continuing defense. They cheated their azzes off. They know that. Everyone knows that. The unx defense is to downplay the fraud ( "Fake" classes become "Easy" classes etc ) and , primarily , question the NCAA's right to monitor such things and question the NCAA's procedures. Sure , they're also gonna demonize anyone who dares speak out but imo unx will live or die on the argument presented. And , again , they're dug in. The next article is important. That said , we DO have some immediate joys. The timeline starts over. unx will most certainly take every day of the 90 alotted to respond. Maybe even ask for an extension...again. Their name will continue to get dragged thru the mud. That's always amusing. Recruiting? Should be interesting here. Fed has kinda avoided any problems. Roy? Gettin' killed. The "junk" took a back seat to his pizz-poor player development as the main reason his recruiting suffered. Well , the "junk" might just become his biggest problem...again. How can it not be? All that stuff he told the media and recruits about the worst being behind unx? Not no mo.' He can't guarantee with any degree of certainty WHAT'S gonna happen now. More uncertainty = more blue-chippers for K and Cal. Fed might just be takin' a hit too. Perhaps he already knew about this stuff comin' down the pike anyway. Would explain the rumors he wants out of Chapel Hill. We'll see. Regardless , enjoy their misery now and the immediate future but don't assume they're goin' belly up. They wouldn't be tarholes if they did...
NCAA COI Chair Greg Sankey's Intervention Into UNC Case
Committee of Infractions chairman and SEC Commissioner Greg Sankey’s unprecedented entry into the NCAA enforcement and hearing process resulted in a third notice of allegations for the University of North Carolina within a 20-month window - without the introduction of new evidence.
http://www.scout.com/college/north-carolina/story/1739981-sankeys-intervention
NCAA COI Chair Greg Sankey's Intervention Into UNC Case
Committee of Infractions chairman and SEC Commissioner Greg Sankey’s unprecedented entry into the NCAA enforcement and hearing process resulted in a third notice of allegations for the University of North Carolina within a 20-month window - without the introduction of new evidence.
http://www.scout.com/college/north-carolina/story/1739981-sankeys-intervention
Latest NCAA allegations against UNC broaden the scope of potential penalties
“I did have one goal and I’m going to have to change it,” men’s basketball coach Roy Williams said of the new notice Wednesday night. “I’d hoped that the NCAA thing would be over before I’m retired. And now I’m hoping it will be over before I die.”
http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/article122420449.html
“I did have one goal and I’m going to have to change it,” men’s basketball coach Roy Williams said of the new notice Wednesday night. “I’d hoped that the NCAA thing would be over before I’m retired. And now I’m hoping it will be over before I die.”
http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/article122420449.html
I have a different take on this situation than most fans.
The evidence is pretty clear. Even if you take the weak argument that since these classes were offered to everybody they weren't sports related, it hardly matters. The writing is on the wall, it was a ploy to get these athletes eligible the easy way. I talked to a Carolina grad that I work with about it. She went to Chapel Hill at the height of this stuff, and she basically said what we all know. That the athletes got special treatment, and most didn't even do their own work.
Many are in favor of taking on the NCAA. And for the record, I believe that since there was no language covering this kind of fraud, this third notice of allegations might be stretching their own authority and ignoring their own rules. There's no consistency here.
However, I am not in favor of dragging this out three more years. That's more possible recruits going elsewhere, that's losing to you people every year, and that's further hurting our already tarnished image. I wanted to do something self imposed from the beginning. But the people at UNC have done the opposite and instead have royally pissed off the NCAA.
We may not get punished or we may. I know I don't want any wins or titles vacated but I'd rather own up to this and take a punishment.
I know many of you while disagree with this, but I don't think we should get the death penalty. I think it is in the NCAA's best interests to keep one of their top programs intact. IF it ends we get some infractions, they should be serious but not damning.
I also know I'm risking a bit by stating this on here when such an opinion. But I state it because I believe it, not because I'm on a duke board. The more I've followed this, the more disappointed I've become in the powers at work here at the school I root for. I will always be a Heel fan, and I love them still. But this whole thing should never have happened. The worst part is that it didn't need to happen.
The evidence is pretty clear. Even if you take the weak argument that since these classes were offered to everybody they weren't sports related, it hardly matters. The writing is on the wall, it was a ploy to get these athletes eligible the easy way. I talked to a Carolina grad that I work with about it. She went to Chapel Hill at the height of this stuff, and she basically said what we all know. That the athletes got special treatment, and most didn't even do their own work.
Many are in favor of taking on the NCAA. And for the record, I believe that since there was no language covering this kind of fraud, this third notice of allegations might be stretching their own authority and ignoring their own rules. There's no consistency here.
However, I am not in favor of dragging this out three more years. That's more possible recruits going elsewhere, that's losing to you people every year, and that's further hurting our already tarnished image. I wanted to do something self imposed from the beginning. But the people at UNC have done the opposite and instead have royally pissed off the NCAA.
We may not get punished or we may. I know I don't want any wins or titles vacated but I'd rather own up to this and take a punishment.
I know many of you while disagree with this, but I don't think we should get the death penalty. I think it is in the NCAA's best interests to keep one of their top programs intact. IF it ends we get some infractions, they should be serious but not damning.
I also know I'm risking a bit by stating this on here when such an opinion. But I state it because I believe it, not because I'm on a duke board. The more I've followed this, the more disappointed I've become in the powers at work here at the school I root for. I will always be a Heel fan, and I love them still. But this whole thing should never have happened. The worst part is that it didn't need to happen.
Good post. I see no problem with any of it except for the portion above. unx has framed this as the NCAA violating its own procedures. Heck , even Jay Bilas is flyin' that flag. Doesn't appear to be accurate though...
Anyway , this will probably be hashed out by lawyers but the last thing either organization wants is sworn testimony in open court. I'm guessin' the NCAA has skeletons. I KNOW unx does. This goes to court and all of a sudden Fats et al is on the table. No way tptb from the flagship university of NC want any part of that. Even if ya win ya lose. And , again , puttin' teachers and tutors and administrators and players and coaches in a witness box would in no shape form or fashion benefit unx. Wouldn't benefit the NCAA either because it would completely destroy their "student/athlete" narrative. I applaud the rest of your post though. I can live without a death penalty too but only if the wins AND 2 titles are gone. Also a one-year post-season ban for all sports involved. Not a death penalty. Just a break. Only fair. It punishes those guilty and the current players are spared something they can't recover from. Crazy anyway. Six years in. unx coulda served a REAL death penalty in every sport on campus and been recovered and re-built by now. That's why a death penalty isn't the end-all be-all to me. Let's face it. unx AIN'T SMU. Tradition , legacy , history...all of that. Other than the shame of it , we're lookin' at just a one-season ban anyway. Dollars to doughnuts , MOST revenue sport athletes would stay. Work-out for a year , stay in shape and come back in 365. Kinda sucks for abc'ers but it's true. Other than the stigma , unx would be fine. AND all this would finally be over. I have zero connects over there but I believe we're here for no other reason than arrogance. Over-aged frat boys in an expensive pizzin' contest with the NCAA. I honestly believe the more they spend the better they feel about all this. Crazy.
Shoulda taken the deal...?
UNC’s challenge to the NCAA’s authority provoked a stronger response – DeCock
North Carolina couldn’t leave well enough alone. With a partial victory and a likely slap on the procedural wrist from the NCAA all but assured, the university went after total surrender.
Now, the NCAA appears intent on the same.
Having successfully lobbied the NCAA behind the scenes to remove specific references to football and men’s basketball and “extra benefits” among other charges from the original notice of allegations, the university replied to that approvingly amended NOA in August not with a debate over the facts but with what was essentially a modern 95 Theses challenging the NCAA’s right to do just about everything but exist.
http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/luke-decock/article122482169.html
UNC’s challenge to the NCAA’s authority provoked a stronger response – DeCock
North Carolina couldn’t leave well enough alone. With a partial victory and a likely slap on the procedural wrist from the NCAA all but assured, the university went after total surrender.
Now, the NCAA appears intent on the same.
Having successfully lobbied the NCAA behind the scenes to remove specific references to football and men’s basketball and “extra benefits” among other charges from the original notice of allegations, the university replied to that approvingly amended NOA in August not with a debate over the facts but with what was essentially a modern 95 Theses challenging the NCAA’s right to do just about everything but exist.
http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/luke-decock/article122482169.html
The NCAA are by no means angels. I think we can agree on that. I think they're remarkably inconsistent and someone in there wants our head. This isn't to say that will happen. But it was also partially our fault for prodding the bear with a stick.
Where we also agree is that this thing could have been taken care of a long time ago. Long term it's a bad look, no matter what the result. Especially with recruiting. Without this scandal, I think at least a few blue chip recruits come our way that we missed.
Furthermore, as much as some on here would love to see UNC get the axe and never rise again, that rivalry is still there. It's important. I love it when we have the upper hand as do you against us, but to me, it wouldn't be quite the same if the competitive atmosphere between Duke and Carolina vanished. It's almost a "one can't live without the other" kind of a thing.
Where we also agree is that this thing could have been taken care of a long time ago. Long term it's a bad look, no matter what the result. Especially with recruiting. Without this scandal, I think at least a few blue chip recruits come our way that we missed.
Furthermore, as much as some on here would love to see UNC get the axe and never rise again, that rivalry is still there. It's important. I love it when we have the upper hand as do you against us, but to me, it wouldn't be quite the same if the competitive atmosphere between Duke and Carolina vanished. It's almost a "one can't live without the other" kind of a thing.
North Carolina's arrogance might have backfired in NCAA academic fraud case
Did we just witness the height of North Carolina arrogance backfire? Given the unpredictable turns in the school's academic fraud case, it's impossible to say for sure. But it's a fair question given how tough the NCAA's third notice of allegations is to the Tar Heels.
UNC got a gift-wrapped present in April from the second notice of allegations, when the NCAA removed any mention of football and men's basketball related to the school's fake classes. UNC's women's basketball program absorbed all of the specific allegations and looked like Jerry Tarkanian's old statement about Kentucky and Cleveland State: "The NCAA is so mad at North Carolina's academic misconduct by everyone that it will probably slap another two-year probation on the women's basketball team."
But UNC couldn't leave well enough alone. So the Tar Heels argued with a straight face that the worst academic fraud scandal in college sports history isn't subject to NCAA jurisdiction. To follow that argument to a logical conclusion, the NCAA then shouldn't be involved in academics at all.
There's a reasonable debate to be had over that exact issue. But the COI hearing panel, led by SEC commissioner Greg Sankey (a huge proponent of NCAA amateurism), was never going to buy that. This case, as the COI panel wrote to North Carolina in late November, "appears to implicate issues at the very core of the Collegiate Model."
http://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...t-have-backfired-in-ncaa-academic-fraud-case/
Did we just witness the height of North Carolina arrogance backfire? Given the unpredictable turns in the school's academic fraud case, it's impossible to say for sure. But it's a fair question given how tough the NCAA's third notice of allegations is to the Tar Heels.
UNC got a gift-wrapped present in April from the second notice of allegations, when the NCAA removed any mention of football and men's basketball related to the school's fake classes. UNC's women's basketball program absorbed all of the specific allegations and looked like Jerry Tarkanian's old statement about Kentucky and Cleveland State: "The NCAA is so mad at North Carolina's academic misconduct by everyone that it will probably slap another two-year probation on the women's basketball team."
But UNC couldn't leave well enough alone. So the Tar Heels argued with a straight face that the worst academic fraud scandal in college sports history isn't subject to NCAA jurisdiction. To follow that argument to a logical conclusion, the NCAA then shouldn't be involved in academics at all.
There's a reasonable debate to be had over that exact issue. But the COI hearing panel, led by SEC commissioner Greg Sankey (a huge proponent of NCAA amateurism), was never going to buy that. This case, as the COI panel wrote to North Carolina in late November, "appears to implicate issues at the very core of the Collegiate Model."
http://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...t-have-backfired-in-ncaa-academic-fraud-case/
Judging by the 2 articles I linked ( DeCock/Solomon ) and general internet chatter , I think THIS^^^ is what happened. The watered-down ANOA was proof that if anyone there wanted unx's head , they weren't makin' a big deal out of it. I think it's just the opposite. I think unx ( just like Duke ) is something of a "favorite son" with the NCAA. They haven't enjoyed investigating ya'll. One of those Twitter-based pro-unx trolls said the NCAA was pizzed at unx for even bringing in Wainstein in the first place. I believe him and given what we now know , he had/has connects with the school. He said the NCAA was pizzed because they had already cleared the university and all unx did was open up a can of worms. No , what unx did was , as you described it , "prod the bear." Despite mountains of evidence suggesting 2 decades worth of the most egregious recorded fraud in NCAA history , they had their wristslap anyway. Again , that arrogance hurt. Someone over there wanted total exoneration. Silly really. Ya'll were never gonna get that anyway. Just take the wristslap and move on.
Trust me we can live without you
More of that "prodding the bear" stuff. Why can't they just leave it alone....?
UNC again faces NCAA extra-benefits charge in academic case
"I don't know what our remedy or recourse is, but we will explore every one of them,'' Cunningham said. "But we will follow this process to the very end. We just want to make sure that everyone stays in their jurisdictional lane.''
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/...face-ncaa-extra-benefits-charge-academic-case
UNC again faces NCAA extra-benefits charge in academic case
"I don't know what our remedy or recourse is, but we will explore every one of them,'' Cunningham said. "But we will follow this process to the very end. We just want to make sure that everyone stays in their jurisdictional lane.''
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/...face-ncaa-extra-benefits-charge-academic-case
Speak for yourself, topps. I'm sorry you got banned, I didn't agree with that decision. But I for one enjoy the rivalry and what it brings out in both teams. I hate Duke, I don't hate the rivalry.
first of all I don't care about getting banned but if you didn't agree with it ,why did you hit the like button the I was banned
Leaving the program "INTACT!!!???" Complete joke to do so when the program was ANYTHING but "intact," while an organized scandal allowed your school an unfair competitive advantage for two decades actually....
OFC
Remember that troll that fooled Dan Kane and others? Yeah, I wonder how s/he is feeling now!
I did? I only agreed with the sentiment that what you said comparing our situation to allens wasn't a very good one. I didn't even see the post where you were banned.
Yes, intact. And you'll pardon me for desiring that outcome. I know what this was, I'm not blind. I can accept vacated wins and titles and a couple years away from the postseason. But the NCAA would be wise to spare the ax. It's in their best interests to do so, plus they don't exactly have a moral high ground either.
See I don't buy the "best interests" argument. I think the sterner the punishment the stronger the message to everyone across the board. Perhaps you are talking revenue. We are in agreement on postseason bans, titles being forfeited-
OFC
Agree do not advocate the death but two year post season ban and loss of two scholarships per year for four years is certainly warranted.
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And if we don't lose anything I won't complain. But if we do it's justified.
I know you hate us like never before, but I think a punishment like the one I mentioned would be more than enough to send a message.
I am in agreement w/you a message would be sent, and am confident the "you hate us like never before" is a healthy mutual!
Merry Christmas!
OFC
#RoyKnew
"Shoot the messenger" much? Oh yeah. It's totally MY fault that unx perpetrated systemic fraud for 20+ years to win ball games. It's also MY fault that some overgrown frat boys in the Board of Trustees and The Rams Club have decided to spend millions in hush money , PR and legal fees to avoid taking their medicine. And finally , again! , it's MY fault that unx "poked the bear" instead of taking a wrist-slap. These last couple of days , I can't keep up with the number of local and national media outlets covering the unx scandal. I'd say it's a dead heat with the number of sources covering Grayson. This is where we are. This stuff is NEWS. If Dan Kane and Jon Solomon and Luke DeCock and David Ridpath and Dennis Dodd et al can cover it , I don't see why I'm worthy of being singled out for posting it on a message board. Look , I know yer just bustin' ballz and I'm cool with that but unx DID bring this on themselves. Personally , I'm still unconvinced you guys will suffer any significant sanctions anyway. But just so we're all clear...so we're all on the same page...Dean knew. Roy knew. They all knew. #YouKnowHeKnow
Ridpath...
North Carolina Releases NCAA's Third, Yes Third, Notice of Allegations In Academic Fraud Case
...allegations against the flagship men's basketball program and football program are now back in play after being inexplicably removed in the second amended notice of allegations in April.
What is mystifying is the NCAA sending out three notices, adding, deleting and then reinserting allegations when candidly this case is not as complicated as many are making it out to be. It is academic fraud, it is extra benefits provided to athletes, and all of it was done in an attempt to keep (primarily) football and men's basketball athletes eligible to gain a competitive advantage. It is major NCAA violations.
...those initial allegations should have never been taken off the table because this "academic" program manifested itself to be a safe harbor for academically at risk athletes and there was clear involvement of athletic staff in expanding the academic fraud and extra benefit for the purposes of gaining a competitive advantage.
I even heard through my contacts that many UNC administrators felt they were going to get off with a fine and other minor sanctions. That no longer appears to be the case-to put it mildly.
...it should have never gone on this long.
...for those of us who follow this, it has always been a textbook NCAA academic fraud case and both parties saying it was not did not make it so.
Now let's see if North Carolina is actually punished for something that other institutions have been sanctioned for doing much less.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/bdavidr...egations-in-academic-fraud-case/#41bdee5c4fe7
North Carolina Releases NCAA's Third, Yes Third, Notice of Allegations In Academic Fraud Case
...allegations against the flagship men's basketball program and football program are now back in play after being inexplicably removed in the second amended notice of allegations in April.
What is mystifying is the NCAA sending out three notices, adding, deleting and then reinserting allegations when candidly this case is not as complicated as many are making it out to be. It is academic fraud, it is extra benefits provided to athletes, and all of it was done in an attempt to keep (primarily) football and men's basketball athletes eligible to gain a competitive advantage. It is major NCAA violations.
...those initial allegations should have never been taken off the table because this "academic" program manifested itself to be a safe harbor for academically at risk athletes and there was clear involvement of athletic staff in expanding the academic fraud and extra benefit for the purposes of gaining a competitive advantage.
I even heard through my contacts that many UNC administrators felt they were going to get off with a fine and other minor sanctions. That no longer appears to be the case-to put it mildly.
...it should have never gone on this long.
...for those of us who follow this, it has always been a textbook NCAA academic fraud case and both parties saying it was not did not make it so.
Now let's see if North Carolina is actually punished for something that other institutions have been sanctioned for doing much less.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/bdavidr...egations-in-academic-fraud-case/#41bdee5c4fe7
dj, glad to see you are still cranking it our.
What's up tilador. Merry Christmas to you. OFC
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