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Patrick Ngongba announcement today...

jamsession2 said:
If we are talking about kids staying 3 to 4 years, then our recruiting needs to look different. There needs to be adjustments about getting 2 or 3 4/5 stars recruits, and the others 3 stars for them to stay 4 years.
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It kinda looks like that. Jon had 3 of the 5 stars return for their sophomore season. I personally thought we would lose Proctor. Glad to be wrong.
Not sure about the kids coming next season, but if I was a betting man, I’d say Foster comes back, and unless something changes, Mitchell should be back for his junior season. It would be cream on the top if McCain came back.
 
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Mac9192 said:
It kinda looks like that. Jon had 3 of the 5 stars return for their sophomore season. I personally thought we would lose Proctor. Glad to be wrong.
Not sure about the kids coming next season, but if I was a betting man, I’d say Foster comes back, and unless something changes, Mitchell should be back for his junior season. It would be cream on the top if McCain came back.
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I can remember not too long ago DUKE completely over recruited. Do we remember Semi O??? Super solid, but no room for him.
 
I always thought we over recruited like teams do in football. You almost have to. We always seemed to have that "extra" recruit, which we didn't really need but if they work out great. If they don't crack the rotation by year two they may leave. These coaches know the deal better than we do. Extra recruits that come to mind are Mike Chappell, Joey Baker, Brakefield, Goldwire, Horvath. The kid who transferred at Christmas a few years back. Tucker. Sometimes they work out; sometimes they don't. I was probably an extra recruit in track if I'm being honest back in the day.
 
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christophero said:
I always thought we over recruited like teams do in football. You almost have to. We always seemed to have that "extra" recruit, which we didn't really need but if they work out great. If they don't crack the rotation by year two they may leave. These coaches know the deal better than we do. Extra recruits that come to mind are Mike Chappell, Joey Baker, Brakefield, Goldwire, Horvath. The kid who transferred at Christmas a few years back. Tucker. Sometimes they work out; sometimes they don't. I was probably an extra recruit in track if I'm being honest back in the day.
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Gbinije. Semi. Schutt?? Reeves??? OFC
 
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jamsession2 said:
Semi had no position and was stuck with Parker/Hood being on the team. SMU was a good decision.
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Ojeleye transferred at the midpoint of the 2014-15 season. Parker and Hood were in the NBA by then. His competition for PT included Amile Jefferson, Justise Winslow ,Rasheed Sulaimon and Matt Jones. Had he stuck around he could have contributed to the 2015 NCAA title team after Sulaimon had been dismissed and would have been a huge asset the following year when Jefferson went down with a foot injury.

Duke wanted Ojeleye to concentrate on rebounding and interior defense on that 2014-15 team, while he saw himself as more of a wing. So, some tension there. But the opportunity was there.

Somebody upthread mentioned Mike Chappell. He started ahead of Chris Carrawell for much of the 1997-'98 season before a disastrous showing showing at Chapel Hill in a blow-out loss led to K switching them. With Corey Maggette coming in the following season Chappell decided to go back home to Michigan State.

Duke thought Chappell was going to be a major contributor. He was the most physically gifted member of Duke's three-player class from the h.s class of 1996. But he lacked the toughness that characterized classmates Carrawell and Nate James. He certainly wasn't an afterthought recruit in any way, shape or form.
 
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Chappell was much lower rated than James or Carrawell in high school. We recruited 3 guys that played the same position. His time at Duke was very unmemorable. One of those guys wasn't going to pan out. And Chappell didn't.
 
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jimlsumner said:
Ojeleye transferred at the midpoint of the 2014-15 season. Parker and Hood were in the NBA by then. His competition for PT included Amile Jefferson, Justise Winslow ,Rasheed Sulaimon and Matt Jones. Had he stuck around he could have contributed to the 2015 NCAA title team after Sulaimon had been dismissed and would have been a huge asset the following year when Jefferson went down with a foot injury.

Duke wanted Ojeleye to concentrate on rebounding and interior defense on that 2014-15 team, while he saw himself as more of a wing. So, some tension there. But the opportunity was there.

Somebody upthread mentioned Mike Chappell. He started ahead of Chris Carrawell for much of the 1997-'98 season before a disastrous showing showing at Chapel Hill in a blow-out loss led to K switching them. With Corey Maggette coming in the following season Chappell decided to go back home to Michigan State.

Duke thought Chappell was going to be a major contributor. He was the most physically gifted member of Duke's three-player class from the h.s class of 1996. But he lacked the toughness that characterized classmates Carrawell and Nate James. He certainly wasn't an afterthought recruit in any way, shape or form.
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Totally agree about the Chappell situation. Lots of talent. I just didn't see him getting pt once Corey arrived on campus.
 
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Maggette still my favorite OAD. Man that guy was exciting. He should have played more against U Conn in the second half. Grrr. Him as a soph. would have been ridiculous.
 
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christophero said:
Chappell was much lower rated than James or Carrawell in high school. We recruited 3 guys that played the same position. His time at Duke was very unmemorable. One of those guys wasn't going to pan out. And Chappell didn't.
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Chappell was a Parade All-American and a consensus top-30 recruit. He started 21 of Duke's first 22 games in the 1997-98 season, with Chris Carrawell coming off the bench. He was not "much lower rated" than James or Carrawell.

Duke expected James to play the 4, with Chappell and Carrawell playing the wing positions. Chappell was a consistent double-figure scorer early in his sophomore season. He scored 13 points against Missouri and 10 against top-ranked Arizona as Duke captured the Maui Classic. Sports Illustrated called him Duke's next star or some such. Chappell scored 11 points against Virginia, 11 against Villanova, 13 against NC State, 11 in a one-point win over Clemson.

He was not an extra player or an inconsequential one.

But he lost his confidence when he lost his starting job and never really got it back.

But any suggestion that he was doomed to be a career reserve or anything like that at Duke simply isn't supported by the facts.
 
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jimlsumner said:
Chappell was a Parade All-American and a consensus top-30 recruit. He started 21 of Duke's first 22 games in the 1997-98 season, with Chris Carrawell coming off the bench. He was not "much lower rated" than James or Carrawell.

Duke expected James to play the 4, with Chappell and Carrawell playing the wing positions. Chappell was a consistent double-figure scorer early in his sophomore season. He scored 13 points against Missouri and 10 against top-ranked Arizona as Duke captured the Maui Classic. Sports Illustrated called him Duke's next star or some such. Chappell scored 11 points against Virginia, 11 against Villanova, 13 against NC State, 11 in a one-point win over Clemson.

He was not an extra player or an inconsequential one.

But he lost his confidence when he lost his starting job and never really got it back.

But any suggestion that he was doomed to be a career reserve or anything like that at Duke simply isn't supported by the facts.
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I had high hopes for Mike. Good Size, Good Skills. Sadly, I knew once Corey committed Mike was the odd man out. Nate and Chris displayed a sense of toughness I didn't see in Mike.
 
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jimlsumner said:
Somebody upthread mentioned Mike Chappell. He started ahead of Chris Carrawell for much of the 1997-'98 season before a disastrous showing showing at Chapel Hill in a blow-out loss led to K switching them. With Corey Maggette coming in the following season Chappell decided to go back home to Michigan State.

Duke thought Chappell was going to be a major contributor. He was the most physically gifted member of Duke's three-player class from the h.s class of 1996. But he lacked the toughness that characterized classmates Carrawell and Nate James. He certainly wasn't an afterthought recruit in any way, shape or form.
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I remember a game Duke WON at N.C.State (always big when Duke wins in Raleigh), where Chappell was lighting it up! It might have merited one of K's signature lines: "Mike Chappell gave us a LIFT" in post game. I am sure Sumner recalls game.

OFC
 
Chappell got off to a hot start, faded, transferred to MSU and averaged 5 points a game. (oh those pesky facts) A star he was not. I never said he wasn't talented. Carrawell and James were McDonald's All Americans and definitely higher rated. Parade included more guys on their list. Obviously Chappell was good in high school; he was recruited by Duke. He had all the tools, but he was soft.
(Sorry for getting us waaaay off topic ha)
 
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christophero said:
Chappell got off to a hot start, faded, transferred to MSU and averaged 5 points a game. (oh those pesky facts) A star he was not. I never said he wasn't talented. Carrawell and James were McDonald's All Americans and definitely higher rated. Parade included more guys on their list. Obviously Chappell was good in high school; he was recruited by Duke. He had all the tools, but he was soft.
(Sorry for getting us waaaay off topic ha)
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Carrawell was not a McDonald's All-American. He was a Parade All-American as a junior but not as a senior.

Oh, those pesky facts.

James was a McDonald's but not a Parade. Chappell was a Parade but not a McDonald's. Parade had more players than McDonald's but wasn't limited to just seniors as is (and was) the case with NcDonald's.

Chappell was a third-team Parade All-American in 1996, meaning they ranked him between 21st and 30 best player in the country, regardless of class.

The Parade All-America team much predates McDonald's and was long considered a major accomplishment until becoming more and more irrelevant. But it was a big deal in 1996 and was so recognized.

The discussion wasn't started on the basis of college production but on recruiting perceptions. Chappell was a consensus top-30 recruit and was regarded as a significant talent when Duke recruited him and was not considered a lesser talent than his two classmates.

Let me share a story. Chappell beat out Carrawell for the starting small forward spot going into the 1997-'98 season. Carrawell never conceded an inch to Chappell, dogging him every practice. When Carrawell was reinstated to the starting lineup after that game in Chapel Hill, Chappell accepted it. With Maggette on the way I think Chappell just checked out mentally.

Mike Chappell was skinny but other than that he was superior to Carrawell in every measurable when they entered Duke together. He was taller, quicker, could jump higher, shoot and handle better.

But Carrawell (and James) had a big edge in the intangibles. No one every chanted "Mike's a bad-ass," for Chappell. Because he wasn't. And that's why his career peaked midway through his sophomore season in college.

But at no point in his recruitment was he ever remotely regarded as a Plan B or anything like that.

Now, if Duke had reeled in its top wing prospect from that class, they all would have been Plan Bs. Kid by the name of Kobe Bryant.
 
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There are so many Mike/Nate/Chris stories in college basketball. Some are embarrassing, others are celebrations.
 
christophero said:
Chappell got off to a hot start, faded, transferred to MSU and averaged 5 points a game. (oh those pesky facts) A star he was not. I never said he wasn't talented. Carrawell and James were McDonald's All Americans and definitely higher rated. Parade included more guys on their list. Obviously Chappell was good in high school; he was recruited by Duke. He had all the tools, but he was soft.
(Sorry for getting us waaaay off topic ha)
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christophero said:
Ugh. You went through a lot of effort to try to prove me wrong. Have a lovely day
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christophero said:
Ugh. You went through a lot of effort to try to prove me wrong. Have a lovely day.
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Not really. I've been following Duke basketball avocationally since around the time Vic Bubas replaced Harold Bradley and vocationally for three or so decades. There's nothing I've posted on the subject of Mike Chappell that's especially hard to find or particularly controversial.

We have some new Duke fans on the board who enjoy learning about the history of the program and discussing the nuances of that history with fellow readers.
 
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jimlsumner said:
Not really. I've been following Duke basketball avocationally since around the time Vic Bubas replaced Harold Bradley and vocationally for three or so decades. There's nothing I've posted on the subject of Mike Chappell that's especially hard to find or particularly controversial.

We have some new Duke fans on the board who enjoy learning about the history of the program and discussing the nuances of that history with fellow readers.
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Do you remember Howard Hurt? Played for Bubas from 59-61 I think. He comes into my business all the time. I believe he’s 86 now, and still in really good shape. One of the funniest guys around.
 
jamsession2 said:
I had high hopes for Mike. Good Size, Good Skills. Sadly, I knew once Corey committed Mike was the odd man out. Nate and Chris displayed a sense of toughness I didn't see in Mike.
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I did too... I liked MC a lot. Thought he could end up having a great career at Duke. If anything I thought he might've been a bit underrated.
 
christophero said:
Sorry Jim I was having a bad week and shouldn't have been snarky. You know your Duke stuff.
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Chris a classy thing to do, but I don't even think an apology was necessary. We're just FANS and Jim has done this (and very credibly), as a JOURNALIST for a long time.

OFC
 
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Mac9192 said:
Do you remember Howard Hurt? Played for Bubas from 59-61 I think. He comes into my business all the time. I believe he’s 86 now, and still in really good shape. One of the funniest guys around.
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Absolutely. Hurt coached at Raleigh Enloe for a awhile and steered Randy Denton towards the Gothic Wonderland
 
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I'm just catching up on this thread.

One of my office associates bought me an old Jim Sumner book with Duke trivia from around 2006 for Christmas. He just knew I was a big Duke guy and saw this book on Amazon. I made a big deal about it and he asked me why. I said it's by Jim Sumner, who is like the unofficial Duke sports historian not to mention a DI friend! The thing about reading a Jim Sumner book or article is, it reads like you're sitting and having a conversation with him.

I also subscribe to Jim's Substack account so this is a free plug.

I treasure anything that Jim has to say about Duke sports, even if I disagree with him.

OK I'm done. Happy New Year's everyone.
 
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