Official Gameday thread- Duke vs Wake
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Instead Scheyer only teased him a couple minutes in the second half. Ridiculous. Scheyer should have taken the leash off Jaden last nite. OFC
Man was I lucky! Completely forgot the game was televised and instead watched car shows, replay of France/Argentina, and Seinfeld re-runs. Reading Box Score and accounts of the game in the media tells me we were outcoached, outrebounded, outshot, outdefended, and all-around outplayed by Wake for sh&t's sake. Seems like Scheyer has ignored offense or just doesn't know how to coach it. He needs to learn how to do it, even if it means consulting K or anyone else (Ole Roy?
😁). At the beginning of the season after the Purdue game I suggested that we were a 9 or 10 loss team. If changes are not made, could be far worse than that, sorry to say.
OFC
😁). At the beginning of the season after the Purdue game I suggested that we were a 9 or 10 loss team. If changes are not made, could be far worse than that, sorry to say.OFC
I was one clamoring for Schutt to get some PT. He was in for just a couple minutes, and he definitely had the deer in the headlights look. He fumbled an easy rebound and was slow on defense and was pulled quickly. Oh how I wish we had tried zone. How many 5 foot floaters and ally oops did we give them?
My question is, if we have a pure shooter like Schutt, and we are struggling to score, why don't we run some set plays for him to get a few open threes? Isn't that what he was recruited to do? If he goes 0-3, then by all means, bench him. Instead all Roach, Flip, Proctor and Grandison went 3-20 from 3.
Again, I'm just an armchair coach, but once again, like all game nights, I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night!
My question is, if we have a pure shooter like Schutt, and we are struggling to score, why don't we run some set plays for him to get a few open threes? Isn't that what he was recruited to do? If he goes 0-3, then by all means, bench him. Instead all Roach, Flip, Proctor and Grandison went 3-20 from 3.
Again, I'm just an armchair coach, but once again, like all game nights, I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night!
And it only makes matters worse when the guys on the floor shooting 3s resemble the cast from "The Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight!!"
#TakeTheLeashOffSchutt
OFC
Look Scheyer has not been good. His lineups make little to no sense, he has not been able to make adjustments in game (maybe this will improve with time), and his offensive philosophy is well….offensive.
I’m tired of people always blaming the players…the players are literally different every single year. The coaching staff is not doing these guys any favors by putting them in unfavorable positions. Outside of Dukes amazing connections and practice facilities these guys are not being put situations to be successful on the floor. That’s Scheyers job.
That team we saw last night was embarrassing to watch coming off a two week break and going into an almost another two week break. Totally embarrassing.
We spent more time falling on the floor and shooting airballs than any Duke team I can ever remember.
That team last night shouldn’t be ranked in the top 25 come next week. That’s pretty poor considering what has been given to Scheyer.
The previous poster is correct that this isn’t anything close to what Coach Ks beginning was like.
Can Scheyer improve? I believe so…but any coach coming in to what K built should be able to hit the ground running full speed….Scheyer included.
If he isn’t able then he wasn’t ready….and if he wasn’t ready he shouldn’t have been handed the job in the first place.
I’m tired of people always blaming the players…the players are literally different every single year. The coaching staff is not doing these guys any favors by putting them in unfavorable positions. Outside of Dukes amazing connections and practice facilities these guys are not being put situations to be successful on the floor. That’s Scheyers job.
That team we saw last night was embarrassing to watch coming off a two week break and going into an almost another two week break. Totally embarrassing.
We spent more time falling on the floor and shooting airballs than any Duke team I can ever remember.
That team last night shouldn’t be ranked in the top 25 come next week. That’s pretty poor considering what has been given to Scheyer.
The previous poster is correct that this isn’t anything close to what Coach Ks beginning was like.
Can Scheyer improve? I believe so…but any coach coming in to what K built should be able to hit the ground running full speed….Scheyer included.
If he isn’t able then he wasn’t ready….and if he wasn’t ready he shouldn’t have been handed the job in the first place.
Maybe it's good that the game before a long break was a stinker. Makes the players realize how hard they have to work.
It's not surprising that Duke can't "out talent" everyone. We had the 1st and 2nd rated freshmen coming in and let's face it, they are not at the level of Bagley, RJ, Paolo or Ingram who were highly rated like that, at least so far.
I'm hoping the defense and teamwork gets back to where it was in the OSU game after the break.
It's not surprising that Duke can't "out talent" everyone. We had the 1st and 2nd rated freshmen coming in and let's face it, they are not at the level of Bagley, RJ, Paolo or Ingram who were highly rated like that, at least so far.
I'm hoping the defense and teamwork gets back to where it was in the OSU game after the break.
I basically have no problem with what you stated. The best 3 pt shooter was given "token" minutes with a K-like leash in the 2nd half last nite. Why not call a few sets for Jaden, pick for him and let him fire away a bit???
This team has the same problem as the last few Duke teams: Weak outside shooting. Flip has had some great games, but he was downright bad last nite, and loves to hang out at the arc and shoot the 3 ball. Flip this is not an NBA COMBINE. It's conference warfare.
Proctor cannot get us to the promised land from the perimeter, and I would say the jury's out on the reclass at this time. Blakes deserves a start over Tyrese vs FSU. For heavens sakes, he's two years older.
I guess I will give Jeremy a pass (toe, missed some time) but he could have at least made better decisions last nite. He shouldn't be out there Coach if he's injured or not 100%. It only hurts the team.
Points about Scheyer are fair to be made. His halftime adjustments (if any) were abysmal. When were launching 3s and pulling a 2-19 or whatever, at least take Proctor out and insert Jaden Schutt. Run some plays for him coach, instead of getting run out of The Joel. Margin wasn't huge last nite, but Wake (who Rutgers MASHED) dominated us.
A few more games like last nite, and Dr.Nina King and Dr.Price's choice (Ammaker) will look really good as next coach. Rant over, fire away....
OFC
It looks like we can’t make an entry pass at all either.
Roach's toe being swollen is not good. He drives the ship. There is a few weeks if it's minor, but geez it's almost January already.
I did not watch the game so I cannot comment on that. But while I have no doubt Scheyer is not (so far) what we had hoped for, we are close to acting like Kentucky fans as they melt down lol. But what do I know; I doubt I could coach any better than even the worst of D1 coaches haha. In fact, I am sure of it
The better coached team won last night. And what is crazy is it was obvious how bad Wake actually is, they were literally handing us the ball, which of course we would fumble it right back.
Wake was 117th in defensive efficiency and without Blake’s I don’t think we would have got to 60 against them. This just isn’t a good offensive team and Scheyer isn’t doing anything to make it easier on the guys.
Wake was 117th in defensive efficiency and without Blake’s I don’t think we would have got to 60 against them. This just isn’t a good offensive team and Scheyer isn’t doing anything to make it easier on the guys.
That’s like saying after a surgeon botches an operation “ well I couldn’t do any better” if you’re a teacher or a plumber. No but our coach is getting paid a fortune and has training and experience. He’s young and he’ll learn. That will be the deciding factor in the next couple of years: his ability to adapt and adjust in game and on the big picture stuff.
If it was a one off bad road loss that's fine. But:
1. we don't know that
2. this team is all over the map at times.
3. Roach's toe. How long will it linger?
I'm not sure what to make of this team. It could go either way. Too much inconsistency from too many guys. We seem a little snake bit with injuries. But there is still time to right the ship.
1. we don't know that
2. this team is all over the map at times.
3. Roach's toe. How long will it linger?
I'm not sure what to make of this team. It could go either way. Too much inconsistency from too many guys. We seem a little snake bit with injuries. But there is still time to right the ship.
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I think the criticism of Scheyer is somewhat unfair and way too premature. We have a very young team, and the little experience that we have on the roster is largely imported. Before we jump off a ledge or hang Scheyer in effigy, let’s give him some time, both to get these guys to play together and better, and to learn things that only experience will give him. Those clamoring for increased input from K should know that, public statements from those involved in the program notwithstanding, K still has a big thumb in what’s going on. Last year at this time, and much to our delight, Tar Heel fans were screaming that Davis should be fired, but he managed to coach them to within 20 minutes of a national title - I think we’d be wise to not mimic their or Kentucky fans’ behavior.
RR has 10 plus threads calling for Cal to be fired. I'm not sure it's a fair analogy.
Maybe. But DI split into 2 boards a few years ago due to the internet civil war we had between the sunshine pumpers and the negative nancy’s. This thread is on page 5, because we lost and some are questioning Jon. I find it entertaining, but I agree with @jeffrey236. Jon is what, 35?, in his 1st season as head coach sitting in the hottest seat in all of college basketball.
It’s also fair to say that the assistant that is now occupying the seat Jon sat in for the last 9 seasons isn’t quite as good he was. That isn’t meant as a knock on them.
I think we can all agree that there is enough blame to be spread all around to everyone for last night's game.
I personally didn't feel that I was intense enough during the game. Part of it was because I was eating dinner but that's a lame excuse.
I personally didn't feel that I was intense enough during the game. Part of it was because I was eating dinner but that's a lame excuse.
We’re going to evaluate his performance on a regular basis . No one has called him names, said he’s over his head, or even come close to demanding his firing. There are a few in Duke Nation who are still swooning over Stevens but old habits die hard.
To suggest that we look well coached at this point in the season doesn’t make you a “true fan” more like a propagandist
We’ll beat some good teams here and there but at this point in Sheyers career it won’t likely be bc they were out coached
I think most are simply in shock like me, that we didn't show any fire, even coming out after halftime. We made Hildreth look like a superstar. That's not Duke basketball.
Oh well we'll see how K's session with young Jon goes today. K takes notes of every game, and they talk the next day.
I am not necessarily endorsing that theory or speaking out against it. However ultimately Jon must stand on his own two feet, and make the tough decisions. Like, should Blakes start over Proctor next game. He definitely earned it last nite.
Duke winning or even playing hard is "entertaining." I don't find such a thread entertaining, but informative about mistakes, and the fact so many people care about Duke basketball and the brand we've built.
Oh well we'll see how K's session with young Jon goes today. K takes notes of every game, and they talk the next day.
I am not necessarily endorsing that theory or speaking out against it. However ultimately Jon must stand on his own two feet, and make the tough decisions. Like, should Blakes start over Proctor next game. He definitely earned it last nite.
Duke winning or even playing hard is "entertaining." I don't find such a thread entertaining, but informative about mistakes, and the fact so many people care about Duke basketball and the brand we've built.
Are we supposed to withhold criticism for the rest of this year, through next year, or just wait until year 3?
When would it be fair to question the performance of a young coach who has been given every advantage possible?
Please give us a road map so we won’t be compared to our enemies’ fan bases every time we lose a game
I have gone back and forth about jumping into this thread, but I think this has to be said. You can ask my wife, I have a long held tradition Of not recording Duke games. I am convinced that it brings them bad luck. My wife pointed out that I must think a lot of myself to think I can have that can impact on a game.
I was thinking yesterday that it had been a while since we had seen them play. I was heading out to high school game and debated about recording the game. I knew I shouldn't but my wife's words were ringing in my ears......
I ended up recording the game. 😞 I would like to apologize to the board, players, coaches....all of Duke Nation for this selfish act on my part. It will not happen again.
Back to the debate. 😀
I was thinking yesterday that it had been a while since we had seen them play. I was heading out to high school game and debated about recording the game. I knew I shouldn't but my wife's words were ringing in my ears......
I ended up recording the game. 😞 I would like to apologize to the board, players, coaches....all of Duke Nation for this selfish act on my part. It will not happen again.
Back to the debate. 😀
It's all smashmouth's fault. I knew it. As far as being young, this is the path Duke has chosen. It's a double edged sword. Recruit the top 20 players, but only get them for a year. It's kind of the same thing every year. Thankfully we made a final four last year. K navigated it well, but we will see how Jon does.
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The OAD teams that K coached during his last 5 years had lots more star power than this team does, and even with that star power and Coach K at the helm, it had one sniff of a national title - last year. Those teams built around OADs have consistently gotten their clocks cleaned by teams built around solid upperclassmen. This year’s class may have been the most highly rated class, but does anyone really believe that there is any freshman on this team that would have a shot of being an NBA regular next year? With that in mind, I think we’re expecting Scheyer to pull a major rabbit out of his hat to make this year’s team a steamroller coming out of the gate. i remain optimistic that by year end we’ll be a very good team, but we’re going to have lots more nights like last night in the meantime, regardless whether it’s Scheyer, K, Stevens, Wooden or Adolph Rupp at the helm. I’m not being a Debbie Downer, just trying to be realistic. I am encouraged by the fact that, last night aside, we’ve embraced defense a lot better than we have in some time. No question, offensively, we clearly have a lot of work to do.
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You also roll the dice with OADs as far as injury. Only get them for a short time, so any injuries seem to really set them back unless it's a guy like Zion or Tatum. It's kind of high risk high reward. I think transfers help. Young has really helped us. We'd probably have 4 or 5 losses without him. Grandison has been inconsistent.
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Wait! Chris did you just make an understatement about Grandison?
One thing a lot of us including me have forgot is that Roach is the only player that returned from the K era besides Blakes. The players are all Jon’s and staff. Unlike Davis who had almost all Ol Huckleberry team return , they are all learning together. I don’t have an issue at all with Jon but the players at times especially yesterday look very not together or energetic. To that it is on the coach to send a message and maybe it’s one where should Lively and Whitehead return some get moved to the bench .
I think we do need more Ryan Young steady type transfers, and recruit more multi year kids like Blakes. In retrospect, it's kind of a shame Blakes was chained to K's bench last year, but he was behind Keels. OFC
We are a team of ifs. That can work out or it may not work out. I'm leaning towards something in the middle; maybe a 4-6 seed and a tough path to the sweet 16. I think sweet 16 would be a good (okay maybe decent) first year for Jon.
1. If Roach can get healthy. Toe injuries can linger. We need him at 100 %. When he's on he's terrific.
2. If Proctor can play more consistently and hit shots when we need him.
3. If Mitchell finds some consistency. This seems likely.
4. If Lively can play a little tougher, less fouls, better positioning, better rebounding.
5. If Whitehead becomes the player everyone thinks he is this year. Maybe, but the illness is another setback.
6. If Grandison can be a steady 3 and D guy off the bench. He's been up and down.
7. Blakes, Flip and Young are who they are, and are doing their jobs. Flip needs to play a little smarter and stop hoisting 3's (0 for 6 last night) and cut down on that spin move that teams are onto. But he's having a great year.
1. If Roach can get healthy. Toe injuries can linger. We need him at 100 %. When he's on he's terrific.
2. If Proctor can play more consistently and hit shots when we need him.
3. If Mitchell finds some consistency. This seems likely.
4. If Lively can play a little tougher, less fouls, better positioning, better rebounding.
5. If Whitehead becomes the player everyone thinks he is this year. Maybe, but the illness is another setback.
6. If Grandison can be a steady 3 and D guy off the bench. He's been up and down.
7. Blakes, Flip and Young are who they are, and are doing their jobs. Flip needs to play a little smarter and stop hoisting 3's (0 for 6 last night) and cut down on that spin move that teams are onto. But he's having a great year.
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This is what I think is important to remember...2022 class clearly seems like a weak one. Relying on one and done talent has its disadvantages- no question, but most of our previous classes have had multiple lottery picks. The top 2 overall recruits of this class have been extremely underwhelming, and that's going to really make it tough on a team that absolutely needs its five star freshman to be studs from day 1.
Way too early for me to put that square on the shoulders of Jon.
Grandison just needs to be more consistent on his three point makes . He’s not a 3 and D wing at all he’s simply a sg .
I would argue that the Bagley 2018 and Zion 2019 teams “sniffed” the national title by both making the Elite 8 and both losing in heartbreaking fashion. They definitely didn’t get their clocks cleaned in the tournament, and both had the talent and pieces to win it all had the ball bounced a bit differently, or had the refs been a bit better (Wendell Carter charge is still the worst call I’ve ever seen.)
Regardless, this years team isn’t nearly as talented as those teams. Only silver lining I can find is there doesn’t seem to be many elite teams this season. Heck Kansas may be one of the best, and we had them beat without Whitehead playing at all.
The thing I like about this thread (despite the sickening feeling of a loss), is the criticism of the team/Scheyer has reasoning and sound points to back it up. For anyone critical of the negativity here, I would caution you to stay away from other Duke boards. Fans are DOWNRIGHT ANGRY, and mostly taking shots at our program/performance without the foundation shown here.
OFC
OFC
A big difference I note from prior years is that when our team was sluggish or sloppy in the first half, K could call a timeout and breath fire into them then or during halftime and induce a huge aboutface in the way they were playing. Have yet to see any evidence that Scheyer has that ability. OFC
8. if our guards can defend and keep pace with UNCheat's guards, and quicker guards at UVA (Clark), Miami (Wong), Va Tech, and even Wake.
9. And if Schutt is given enough playing time to get used to the speed of the game.
OFC
I recall a lot of games where K would call a time out or Duke would come out of half time and not respond . K had 42 years to coach Scheyer is only 13 games in . I remember the Iron Dukes calling for K to be fired very early in his career at Duke and I think even then it wasn’t 13 games in with a 10-3 record .
He could have a record like Louisville or Florida St. both with loosing records one coached by a hall of Fame coach and the other by an Alumni, NBA player assistant at Kentucky now the head coach .
I for one do not blame Jon , I think the players need to play with heart and toughness.
That's a lot of "ifs" Chris, but I think if half of them come thru, we will be just fine. If more than half come thru, we will be formidable.
Guard play is key IMHO, and if Roach can't find consistency and/or has a lingering injury, I think it could be a long season. Proctor or Blakes would REALLY need to step up.
Guard play is key IMHO, and if Roach can't find consistency and/or has a lingering injury, I think it could be a long season. Proctor or Blakes would REALLY need to step up.
Regarding Scheyer motivating the team, we know that he was "highly motivated" as a player. If you don't believe that, find the Youtube tape of him scoring 21 points in 75 seconds in high school. He may take some time figuring out how to motivate college players and even more so, this particularly team.
Coach K was a master motivator. I attended a game in Philadelphia against Temple about 10 years ago. Duke was winning by about 10 but playing disinterested ball. K called time out and slammed the chair he was sitting in down twice, so loud that the Wells fargo Center echoed the sound. I saw 5 sets of eye balls get really big and round!
Scheyer will figure out his own technique.
Coach K was a master motivator. I attended a game in Philadelphia against Temple about 10 years ago. Duke was winning by about 10 but playing disinterested ball. K called time out and slammed the chair he was sitting in down twice, so loud that the Wells fargo Center echoed the sound. I saw 5 sets of eye balls get really big and round!
Scheyer will figure out his own technique.
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