That little ass lineup got us down early and then gave them confidence. Thought Jon would have learned after last game
Official game day thread- Duke vs Pitt II
- Thread starter pisgah101
- Start date
We all know fully healthy, we beat this Pitt team by 20+ so I’m not that worried. But, what this shows us is our defense sorely misses Mark Mitchell (just like the Tennessee game from last year’s NCAA Tournament). He’s THAT important on that side of the ball.
My only suggestion is if he’s going to be out much longer, how about we press, with all of the guards we have, we can rotate them in waves and press for 40 minutes. We can score without Mark and Jeremy, but we can’t defend without Mark. That would be my suggestion. Still, we almost won anyway with Pitt’s players going unconscious from 3 to only win by 4. They played a perfect game and it was still almost not enough. I’m sure we’ll see them again in the ACCT and i hope the guys use this as fuel for motivation.
Finally, those missed free throws in the second half and McCain’s 3 being called a 2 was literally the difference between winning and losing.
My only suggestion is if he’s going to be out much longer, how about we press, with all of the guards we have, we can rotate them in waves and press for 40 minutes. We can score without Mark and Jeremy, but we can’t defend without Mark. That would be my suggestion. Still, we almost won anyway with Pitt’s players going unconscious from 3 to only win by 4. They played a perfect game and it was still almost not enough. I’m sure we’ll see them again in the ACCT and i hope the guys use this as fuel for motivation.
Finally, those missed free throws in the second half and McCain’s 3 being called a 2 was literally the difference between winning and losing.
A bad loss, but not the end of the world. Ok so we are likely not a 2 seed but not a 7/8 seed either. Mitchell and Roach are clearly important to the team. Mitchell can't seem to get fully healthy this year, which could be a problem. He missed most of the summer and now he's out again. Most assumed we would win most of our games in this stretch and we did. It gets tougher now. Louisville on the road, they are not very good but if those 2 guys are out again we can be beat, as last night proves. Then Clemson at home, and VT and UNC on the road. A lot of people were saying this summer we didn't need a portal 5, but that was assuming Stewart and Reeves would contribute, and they haven't. It could happen for Stewart this year like Lively, but those two are not in the same class. Right now we are a good team, maybe 4/5/6 seed depending on how things shake out. I don't think we have a ton of margin for error, and we need those two guys back.
I'm in this boat too, but to Jon's defense, what else can he do with Mark out? I completely agree and most of the Duke fans I know personally also agree the small lineup isn't working. With Mark out, who else does he start though? Sean and TJ are clearly not ready (which is very disappointing), and Ryan is well Ryan so I'm not sure what we do.
I'll be the first to admit that I took Mark for granted and he's clearly missed. I still think Roach out is the bigger loss, but Mark really allows us to put good size and defense on the floor.
Have to just hope that both are fine and are being held out extra days to be overly cautious. If we see both back Tuesday, I think it a clear sign Jon knows extra rest time is done and we have to keep winning games in a bad ACC- as opposed to having both back to a full 100%. We need both, even at 80%.
Hey bleed, thanks for always keeping it real my friend. I admit I am a big part of "the spoiled fanbase." K established such a winning tradition, and set the bar so high. (With the ever engulfing social media ITS SEEMINGLY WORLD NEWS when we lose, because Duke basketball has such a legion of HATERS.)
I must put it in perspective. It's a JANUARY
LOSS, and we were minus two starters. It's also probably not quite the Duke team which makes the Final Four even completely healthy. We're a Derek Lively type player away from contending for all the marbles.
Your comment about being "spoiled" gave me the reality check I needed. I am going to quit letting losses get to me so much, and questioning Scheyer's ability to discipline his players.Who knows, maybe Hinson's post-game behavior will provide the jolt Jon and the team needs to get tougher!! OFC
Hart, you are (and many others here) entitled to your feelings. I'm very displeased with the loss. But I see all the variables, and it makes sense. You're a great poster. I get aggravated with the people who only show up to trash Jon and the team during losing game day threads. You're not wrong; if we had Lively, this team would probably be a 2-4 loss team at worst. But we have some great guys, and when healthy, I still think our ceiling is high. Oh, and Hinson is a punk.
Lively peaked around this time last year. This year we have two starters injured. Next man up. Let's see if you're worth that ranking coming into Duke.
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I will leave my two cents .
The bench has not contributed much this season , this far . Power hit some three’s , Blakes trying his hardest and Stewart well no one knows out so de if he does look lost in limited minutes ( that’s not his fault. He does have Coleman written on him at the moment.)
The four guard line up is on Jon no way around that he picks who starts . It has not worked in two games and it won’t !
Hinson isn’t talking junk if Mitchell and Roach are playing so his 7/7 does not impress me with a 6’1” McCain guarding him.
If I’m Capel I’m asking him why did you jump in the crazy face knowing Duke is with out two starters and you did nothing on your home court !
Duke needs help from the bench period and Flip needs a center to help him . I really think he’s starting to regret coming back as is Proctor . There is no lob threat so Proctor has to bank on someone hitting a three or putting in the work down low .
This team isn’t a contender it’s an injury away from another first round exit . At this point you can only hope the players stay healthy and one of Power or Stewart can help out .
The bench has not contributed much this season , this far . Power hit some three’s , Blakes trying his hardest and Stewart well no one knows out so de if he does look lost in limited minutes ( that’s not his fault. He does have Coleman written on him at the moment.)
The four guard line up is on Jon no way around that he picks who starts . It has not worked in two games and it won’t !
Hinson isn’t talking junk if Mitchell and Roach are playing so his 7/7 does not impress me with a 6’1” McCain guarding him.
If I’m Capel I’m asking him why did you jump in the crazy face knowing Duke is with out two starters and you did nothing on your home court !
Duke needs help from the bench period and Flip needs a center to help him . I really think he’s starting to regret coming back as is Proctor . There is no lob threat so Proctor has to bank on someone hitting a three or putting in the work down low .
This team isn’t a contender it’s an injury away from another first round exit . At this point you can only hope the players stay healthy and one of Power or Stewart can help out .
The staff absolutely deserves to be criticized after this game. It's just the truth. Unfortunately Jon has shown that he struggles to adjust in game, especially defensively. Lucas needs to get to work as well. It's not about winning or losing, it's about stubbornly sticking to one thing and never making an adjustment to see if it can help. That has been the case most of the year.
I love Jon. I support him. But it's time be honest... he needs to get better.
I love Jon. I support him. But it's time be honest... he needs to get better.
Come on, Shey, you're better than this. How do you know if Flip or Proctor or both regret returning? That's pure speculation from something you've pulled out of thin air. It's wild what assumptions some fans make from zero intel.
I agree that Proctor needs to get better. Esp. the last game with Roach out. He hasn't become that stud sophomore we thought he would become. He's been good, sure, as has Flip and Mitchell. Maybe he will turn the corner soon, but he seems a bit meek out there sometimes and the Pitt guards were playing him physical. He did miss some time but he looked similar before the injury. That would be fine if he was a 4 year guy but we likely only get a few more months of him. I haven't really seen him take over a game except for GT. The next few weeks will tell us a lot about the team. Win our next 2 and we are back on track.
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Saying we’re “spoiled” is a cop out. K built this program to be great not mediocre. We weren’t spoiled we expect what we always have.. greatness and championships as should EVERY blue blood program. If you aren’t up to snuff figure it out because the talent is there but the small ball crap ain’t it, and flip floating around the perimeter ain’t it. People getting onto Koach he’s the same guy he’s always been but he’s not exactly wrong.
Bleed sincerest thanks for all the kind words!! And yes, "Hinson is a punk!" Lol!!
OFC
Typical? Dude, what the hell are you even talking about? We are spoiled. It's evident when we are calling Jon's years "mediocre."
Spoiled?
6/8 players are 5 star recruits that played yesterday
Flip has developed a really bad attitude
Mitchell’s 3 point shot got worse
Proctors doesn’t look any different from last year
And despite basically handpicking every freshman, who were all 5 stars, completely whiffed on getting a sorely needed big.
Couple that with reeves being completely useless
We’re gt only win and I think Pitt now has a whopping 2 acc wins. We haven’t played any top ACC teams and already have two losses.
Really we’ve only played well in two games against actual competition , Baylor and Pittsburgh. Every other game we’ve played this season we’ve looked lackluster. And yes I’m ignoring the game against queens… because it’s queens
The results of this season are absolutely inexcusable. 3 of our losses are against horrible teams.
Jon has all the tools at his disposal to win. If he didn’t have talent I’d understand but that’s not the case. He’s done a terrible job this year, sorry you can’t see that
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I still stand by the fact that Power and Stewart haven't helped is the biggest issue with this team. I've seen a TON of shade thrown at Jon on social media and I do think he struggles to adjust, but Duke relys on 5 star freshman. No one expected TJ and Stewart to be Bagley or Zion, but they have been major disappointments for being five stars. Is that on Jon or that they just were overrated? Not sure but we look to be a 7 man rotation come March.
Getting a W Tuesday helps alot.
Getting a W Tuesday helps alot.
Again, the way we have responded to losing last night and a lot of the losses is pretty spoiled. We swept our rival, went undefeated at home, won the ACC Championship, and an injury away from a second weekend in the first year following the GOAT, and 90% of our fanbase whined.
We've dealt with injuries all season. Yesterday's loss without two starters and everyone acting as if we should have still run away with it is foolish. A great deal of the blowback Jon has received in his SECOND YEAR is on the level with how hole and the toothless wildcat fans behave. Jon is not free of criticism. But some of the takes are ludicrous and shortsighted. Yes, we are spoiled.
Last years results doesn’t give him a pass of what happens in the future. He literally returned the entire team from last year besides lively and to an extent whitehead, and yeah lively’s a big player to lose but everyone else has basically regressed in his second year. It being his second year doesn’t even mean anything due to the ridiculous amount of talent he has. He’s probably had the most talent ever assembled by a brand new coach.
I don’t care if we were down 2 starters. We are 2-2 against two of the three last place acc teams. It’s inexcusable and definitely not spoiled. It’s being real
But you do you bleed at the end of the day we’re all Duke fans and want to see Duke play well. Hope it changes soon like last season.
Fair enough. We disagree on a lot, but yes, we all want Duke to win. I still believe when healthy, this is a team with a high ceiling. A lot of basketball is left to play. So we shall see what happens.
I'm returning my diploma tomorrow morning, as soon as the post office opens.
We still should have beat 1-5 Pitt at home, even down 2 starters. Injuries are part of the game. I doubt we head into the tournament fully healthy. When do we ever? This team need to get healthy and get tougher. Injuries should galvanize a good team not make them crumble. It's hard to believe that TJ and Stewart are not capable of 5-10 good minutes a game. We are a good team, but no where near a great team at the moment. Things can change; but as of now this team has underperformed. Let's be honest the schedule has not exactly been brutal. Win at Louisville and then get a quality home win vs Clemson and we are back on track. Then @VT and UNC. A split gives us 6 losses; not ideal.
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Injuries do matter, though. Again, how many teams could have overcome the loss of those two guys last night? With close college basketball is these days, I would argue virtually none of the top teams could with how Pitt was shooting. But our expectations are so sky high as a fan base that a lot of us cannot see the forest for the trees.
Bleed comon; it's sky high to expect to beat Pitt at home? We still rolled out 5 five stars last night.
Again, down two of our best players. And I mean sky high for the program that we cannot look at the microcosm of last night's game with perspective.
For the record, ESPN had Foster, Stewart, Power at 4 stars.
A 5-star rating guarantees nothing. Booker at MSU and Biliew at Iowa State have 0 starts and numerous DNPs this year.
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Win our 2 games this week and we are fine. We are running out of wiggle room for a good seed. Getting healthy is the key.
You implied that his tenure was mediocre following the GOAT. Is that this year? Last year? Part of the time he has been the coach? I can't read your mind. But if you want to play games, it's too late for bullshit.
Hardly my behind bleed just cuz your clueless doesn’t mean everyone else is. Without them we still start 3 players and have 3 on the bench that would start for 90% of D1 programs. The fact we couldn’t win against a bad Pitt team IN CAMERON is ridiculous and mediocre and if you can’t call a spade a spade it’s time for you to take a mental health break like datt cuz your delusional. if expecting to win games we should win is spoiled then call me spoiled and I’ll call you what you are… mediocre.
As for what’s mediocre in general I wasn’t referring to last year. Jon did great and I think he’s done great this year as I’ve stated before.. my mediocre comment was to this game alone but you’re too far up your own arse to see that mediocre man
How do I know ! This is a simple answer . Flip banked on returning at the four not playing center . He also hoped to have another big to play along side him which he thrived off of last year . He struggles in the post unless Duke is hitting outside shots not allowing teams to double team him .
Proctor has gone from lottery to the second round . His passing ability can’t really be displayed with out a lob threat down low . I get he got injured but he is hesitating a lot on trying to find his role . Is he a shooter, scoring guard , combo guard or point guard ?
I’m not saying anything that hasn’t been brought up by scouts and analysts. A course it’s a weak draft but Proctor is a way better player then he has shown and you put a center like say Reeves or Stewart as another big and it takes heat off of Flip.
There was a good article breakdown on top 100 draft picks going into 2024’s draft . I want to say it was on cbs or bleacher report but it was accurate on Flip and Proctor . The first thing was did both do theirselves any favor by returning to college .
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And you don’t know if they don’t ! I know I’ve seen Flip complain more as the season has gone on , either due to not getting a call he thinks he should have gotten or when he commits a foul or one of his over dribbling turn overs .
I know I’ve read more then one article stating scouts didn’t know if either returning has helped their stock and in fact they believe it has hurt Proctor because he has not played to expectations coming off last season .
It don’t matter what I think because both are gone after this season and their will be another crop to have the same conversation about .
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