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MSU / No Giles, Bolden or Tatum

ticket2ride04 said:
Not quite. It presented a theory that Giles might sit a majority of the year and play late to show he is healthy. There is precedent for it. Regardless, I just hope he makes a full recovery. Hate he's had all these problems.
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It said no such thing! lol! It said Giles would "probably" be out for Nov. 11. That was the extent of Giles discussion for this year. The rest of the article referred entirely to what NBA scouts thought about Giles future - in the NBA.

And, it certainly says nothing at all re: speculation (esp. nothing from inside the Duke family) that "Giles might not come back until the end of the season (if at all)."

Coach K is as secretive about injuries as Bill Belichick is. That's super frustrating as a fan. We'd really like to hear, "X will be back 1st week in December" or whatever. But, I also understand K's approach on silence and appreciate it.

I do hope they can come back and play this year - I think it will help them all and I think they want to have that college experience.

You ask even many NBA greats who have won an NCAA championship in the past 15-20 seasons and they will talk all about that experience. Bill Walton rarely talks about the Trailblazers title but he does talk about his days at UCLA. Several others do the same. Would be great as a fan to see them excel and experience this and the shot at a title - which is very legit if they all return healthy by Jan 1 or so. There's less of a chance they will win one at the next level.
 
Just to add, there was this blurb from C.L. Brown on the Duke page at ESPN, which was noted in here somewhere, I think:

Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski said he allowed injured players Marques Bolden, Harry Giles & Jayson Tatum to participate in warmups vs William & Mary to begin the mental transition back to playing. Krzyzewski still doesn't when they will make their season debut: "There is light at the end of the tunnel, we just don't know how long the tunnel is, but I think days like today help."
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The fact that all three were in warmups is a positive sign about the light at the end of the tunnel. For all three. But who knows when.
 
SkookPSU&Duke said:
I agree with 95% of this post. Not sure Amile is a "better version" of Jahlil. He dominated offensively from day one. Amile is definitely more complete and a much better defender but Jahlil drew double teams and opened up the perimeter for Tyus, Quinn and Winslow. He also rebounded fairly well for much of the year. They both can't hit free throws or Jahlil would have averaged like 25 a game. Both really important pieces on two completely different teams. Depth will be huge tomorrow. If Vrank, Javin and Jack give us good minutes, we should win. Agree with Show though. We need Grayson.
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Amile is just as efficient on the offensive end, except he doesnt draw doubles and doesn't get fouled as much. He's been scoring at almost 70% though. In every other way, he is better than Jah was as a frosh. Rebounding, D, leadership, passing all better. I'd say he's a better piece in terms of winning games. He did close out the Badgers with Jah riding the pine.
 
DukeDenver said:
Amile is just as efficient on the offensive end, except he doesnt draw doubles and doesn't get fouled as much. He's been scoring at almost 70% though. In every other way, he is better than Jah was as a frosh. Rebounding, D, leadership, passing all better. I'd say he's a better piece in terms of winning games. He did close out the Badgers with Jah riding the pine.
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Dude, Jah was a unanimous first team AA and was the only guy in ACC history to be both ACC POY and ROY in the same year. He would have been and did lead for NPOY if not for Kaminisky. You're REALLY selling Jah short here to make Amile look good.

Also yes Jah got in foul trouble and didn't have a good game in the natty. But you also don't forget when he did come back he got two huge boards and buckets that really helped propel us to that win. Those two buckets were absolutely huge.
 
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timo0402 said:
Dude, Jah was a unanimous first team AA and was the only guy in ACC history to be both ACC POY and ROY in the same year. He would have been and did lead for NPOY if not for Kaminisky. You're REALLY selling Jah short here to make Amile look good.

Also yes Jah got in foul trouble and didn't have a good game in the natty. But you also don't forget when he did come back he got two huge boards and buckets that really helped propel us to that win. Those two buckets were absolutely huge.
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You're talking awards, I'm talking game. Sure, Jah is the better player in the individual sense, but a fifth year Amile is the better piece for a winning tourney run. I'm sticking with it. And Jah wasn't sitting in the final 8 minutes of the Natty because of foul trouble.
 
DukeDenver said:
You're talking awards, I'm talking game. Sure, Jah is the better player in the individual sense, but a fifth year Amile is the better piece for a winning tourney run. I'm sticking with it. And Jah wasn't sitting in the final 8 minutes of the Natty because of foul trouble.
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We don't win the 2015 title without Jah, we don't win the 2015 title without Amile.
Sure, Amile was crucial in the title game with Jah on the bench, but it is night and day in terms of talent.
Jah's presence on the offensive end made Tyus, Quinn, Matt, and everyone else all MUCH better. He was the reason our guards got so many good looks.
I only go back 30 years, but in my opinion, Jah was the best freshman offensive big man I HAVE EVER SEEN.
In 2015, were still a national title contender without Amile. Without Jah, we'd be lucky to get past the sweet 16.

Comparing Jah and Amile is like comparing a great running back to a great defensive back, it's impossible.
 
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jwill133 said:
We don't win the 2015 title without Jah, we don't win the 2015 title without Amile.
Sure, Amile was crucial in the title game with Jah on the bench, but it is night and day in terms of talent.
Jah's presence on the offensive end made Tyus, Quinn, Matt, and everyone else all MUCH better. He was the reason our guards got so many good looks.
I only go back 30 years, but in my opinion, Jah was the best freshman offensive big man I HAVE EVER SEEN.
In 2015, were still a national title contender without Amile. Without Jah, we'd be lucky to get past the sweet 16.

Comparing Jah and Amile is like comparing a great running back to a great defensive back, it's impossible.
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I agree on that last point. It's impossible to really compare the two. I still say we go farther with Amile if you're choosing between the two. Jah did open up a lot on the floor (best freshman offensive post player probably; not best overall in my opinion), but he also missed a ton of free throws, turned the ball over and was terrible on defense. His "net benefit" is difficult to measure, but those negatives had him riding the pine in crunch time. If he was that dominant, he'd have been playing.
 
hart2chesson said:
I see Frank stepping up EVEN MORE if Grayson unable to go....Matt, Luke too, and speaking of Matt, I feel the best about his 3 ball when its shot from corner.

Its funny, a wise old coach named John Wooden used to say the best spots for outside shooters are straight on And/Or from corners. The legend's reasoning??? Shooter doesnt face that sometimes indecisiveness about whether to bank or shoot straight on from wing....Makes sense, and Matt seems most comfortable from corner....


OFC
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Actually that makes zero sense lol. Nobody in the past 25 years has tried to bank a 3 point shot!
 
I loved Okafor and he was huge for Duke during the regular season. I also think his injury hampered him throughout the tournament which hurt his impact.

That being said...it is still much easier to quantify box score stats as actual value when there are so many unrecorded factors that determine a players value.

Jah helped our offense but we were a better team the last few games with him on the bench.
 
Actually the "psychological precedent" is there, when you consider the wing shot, particularly if its a player struggling w/his shot. Players get in slumps all the time and try different things....

Wooden's argument makes perfect sense when you think about the corner shot- you don't think about the glass- you just shoot- same w/straight on (hence all those announcers saying "I bet he didnt call BANK on that one"). Anyway things worked out pretty well for Wooden"s teams...

OFC
 
Could be a visual thing. At the top of the key you see the basket in near perfect symmetry and when in the corners you get a clear visual guidance with the backboard creating a bounding line that you must aim to the right or left of and everything behind the rim is the same. Whereas from the wing things are visually off as one side of the backboard can appear wider than the other, parts of the rim background could be the wall/bleachers/crowd while the other parts of the rim background is the backboard depending on where you are on the wing, etc. Straight on and from the corners the basket is visually and geometrically appealing.
 
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DukeDenver said:
I agree on that last point. It's impossible to really compare the two. I still say we go farther with Amile if you're choosing between the two. Jah did open up a lot on the floor (best freshman offensive post player probably; not best overall in my opinion), but he also missed a ton of free throws, turned the ball over and was terrible on defense. His "net benefit" is difficult to measure, but those negatives had him riding the pine in crunch time. If he was that dominant, he'd have been playing.
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So your saying you would rather have had Amile than Jah in 2015??? I must say, I didn't think that is something I would ever read. And boy do I love Amile.
I understand we were better in the championship game with Jah on the bench, but that was due to the opposition's center. How many teams have a seven footer that can play on the perimeter and is also the National Player of the Year. I'll keep it simple, never.

Give me 2015 Jah over Amile and give me a 20 year old Jah over a 23 Amile on this Duke team. With Jah, it wouldn't even be fair. But boy oh boy do I love Amile.
 
jwill133 said:
So your saying you would rather have had Amile than Jah in 2015??? I must say, I didn't think that is something I would ever read. And boy do I love Amile.
I understand we were better in the championship game with Jah on the bench, but that was due to the opposition's center. How many teams have a seven footer that can play on the perimeter and is also the National Player of the Year. I'll keep it simple, never.

Give me 2015 Jah over Amile and give me a 20 year old Jah over a 23 Amile on this Duke team. With Jah, it wouldn't even be fair. But boy oh boy do I love Amile.
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I'm not trying to convince anyone I'm right, I'm just telling you the choice I'd make. Yep, I'd rather have a 23-year-old Amile than a freshman Jah, assuming we've got Quinn, Tyus, Justise, Marshall, Grayson, and Matt. Maybe my regular season win/loss takes a hit, but I think we've got a better shot at a title with Amile over Jah. Now if you offer me Jah as he is right now, OK of course, gimme that big man.
 
DukeDenver said:
I'm not trying to convince anyone I'm right, I'm just telling you the choice I'd make. Yep, I'd rather have a 23-year-old Amile than a freshman Jah, assuming we've got Quinn, Tyus, Justise, Marshall, Grayson, and Matt. Maybe my regular season win/loss takes a hit, but I think we've got a better shot at a title with Amile over Jah. Now if you offer me Jah as he is right now, OK of course, gimme that big man.
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We're going to have to agree to disagree here, you're either drunk on Amile love or just forgot how dominant Jah was two years ago. This shouldn't even be debatable.
 
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We couldn't have won the 2015 NAT without, Jefferson,Winslow, Jones, Jah, Grayson , Matt, Marshall or Quinn Cook. They all had their moments in that championship. OFC
 
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timo0402 said:
We're going to have to agree to disagree here, you're either drunk on Amile love or just forgot how dominant Jah was two years ago. This shouldn't even be debatable.
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IMO Jah is the most dominant freshman we have EVER had.
 
jwill133 said:
IMO Jah is the most dominant freshman we have EVER had.
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I agree, but dominant in only one scenario: holding the ball in the post. I'd argue Johnny Dawkins was a better frosh, as it was mostly him getting K to his first Final 4. Most people on here agree with you about preferring Jah over Amile and it not being close. You've won the popular vote. Let's head on over to the Michigan State thread and get pumped about another win over Izzo.
 
DukeDenver said:
I agree, but dominant in only one scenario: holding the ball in the post. I'd argue Johnny Dawkins was a better frosh, as it was mostly him getting K to his first Final 4. Most people on here agree with you about preferring Jah over Amile and it not being close. You've won the popular vote. Let's head on over to the Michigan State thread and get pumped about another win over Izzo.
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Need to include Gene Banks in any discussion of best freshman seasons.To all you youngsters Duke played basketball at a high level before before K
 
This a question about the three amigos. Looking at the schedule Dec. 19th, 2016. Against Tenn state looks like a good return date for at least two of them. We would play mich state, Maine, Flordia, and Unlv before a nine day off before the game against them. That would be two more weeks but I honestly think that would be a good return date. Good for healing purpose as well. Even tough K has stated there is no time table.
 
I'm calling Saturday against Maine for at least one of them.....

OFC
 
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jorsam33 said:
This a question about the three amigos. Looking at the schedule Dec. 19th, 2016. Against Tenn state looks like a good return date for at least two of them. We would play mich state, Maine, Flordia, and Unlv before a nine day off before the game against them. That would be two more weeks but I honestly think that would be a good return date. Good for healing purpose as well. Even tough K has stated there is no time table.
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I have a feeling this is about right. I think all three will either come back at the same time or 2 then 1. Makes it easier to integrate when you do it that way.
 
dukehokie said:
I have a feeling this is about right. I think all three will either come back at the same time or 2 then 1. Makes it easier to integrate when you do it that way.
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I am glad we are on the same page. But who knows. I wish I could be around the atmosphere every day, but I like that coach and the staff keep everything close to the vest. keeps other teams guessing.
 
Anyone know if the three amigos are warming up again tonight?

OFC
 
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