Bilas going out of his way to be defender of the Holes as usual.

[DukeJim99]

This is a good read. Robert Orr -- the author of the op.ed. -- is a former NC Supreme Court justice. He is also a graduate of UNC, undergrad and law school. He is also representing a number of UNC athletes in a class action suit.

UNC will not get to walk away from this one. Sorry -- not going to happen.

It is a good read. But it doesn't address the fundamental point behind what Bilas is saying, if I understand him.

In the article, Mr. Orr compares the fake classes scandal to a prior punishment that the NCAA issued when two UNC football players received "too much help" from a paid university tutor. But, presumably, non student athletes were not given paid tutors who provided too much help. So, that makes this "too much help from a tutor issue" completely distinct from the fake classes scandal.

Bilas's point, as I understand it, is that the NCAA is there to make sure athletes don't get special benefits - benefits that are unavailable to the student body as a whole. So, Bilas would certainly agree that punishment of the UNC football players was within the NCAA's jurisdiction - the NCAA properly punished UNC for giving athletes a benefit that was unavailable to non-athletes.

By contrast, the fake classes were open to everyone. So, Bilas says they weren't a special benefit available only to athletes and thus not an NCAA concern. Now, I'm still not convinced Bilas is correct. But, by failing to address the fact that the fake classes were open to the entire student body and thus arguably not a "special benefit" for athletes, Mr. Orr's article fails entirely to address the main thrust of Bilas's point, at least as I understand it.

 

[hart2chesson]

It is a good read. But it doesn't address the fundamental point behind what Bilas is saying, if I understand him.

In the article, Mr. Orr compares the fake classes scandal to a prior punishment that the NCAA issued when two UNC football players received "too much help" from a paid university tutor. But, presumably, non student athletes were not given paid tutors who provided too much help. So, that makes this "too much help from a tutor issue" completely distinct from the fake classes scandal.

Bilas's point, as I understand it, is that the NCAA is there to make sure athletes don't get special benefits - benefits that are unavailable to the student body as a whole. So, Bilas would certainly agree that punishment of the UNC football players was within the NCAA's jurisdiction - the NCAA properly punished UNC for giving athletes a benefit that was unavailable to non-athletes.

By contrast, the fake classes were open to everyone. So, Bilas says they weren't a special benefit available only to athletes and thus not an NCAA concern. Now, I'm still not convinced Bilas is correct. But, by failing to address the fact that the fake classes were open to the entire student body and thus arguably not a "special benefit" for athletes, Mr. Orr's article fails entirely to address the main thrust of Bilas's point, at least as I understand it.

Orr challenges Bilas point however the NCAA is outside its jurisdiction in investigating this case on bylaw 10.1, per the "Unethical Conduct" charge. Regardless of who the classes were open to, SPECIAL ARRANGEMENTS were being made to make sure the athletes were receiving credit to maintain eligibility.

Just as an aside I would put Orr's experience and credentials up against those of Mr. Bilas anyday. I have no doubt Bilas is a fine litigator, but Former State Supreme Court Justice Orr has a better grasp of criminal and civil law IMO.

Btw the courses may have indeed been "open to all students" but they were not advertised to non SA's in the same manner. In addition, if you study the chain of emails between Crowder, Walden and the advisors, etc notice how non student athletes were INTENTIONALLY PLACED in some classes to attempt to offset appearances of impropriety....

OFC

 

[Devilinside]

Orr challenges Bilas point however the NCAA is outside its jurisdiction in investigating this case on bylaw 10.1, per the "Unethical Conduct" charge. Regardless of who the classes were open to, SPECIAL ARRANGEMENTS were being made to make sure the athletes were receiving credit to maintain eligibility.

Just as an aside I would put Orr's experience and credentials up against those of Mr. Bilas anyday. I have no doubt Bilas is a fine litigator, but Former State Supreme Court Justice Orr has a better grasp of criminal and civil law IMO.

Btw the courses may have indeed been "open to all students" but they were not advertised to non SA's in the same manner. In addition, if you study the chain of emails between Crowder, Walden and the advisors, etc notice how non student athletes were INTENTIONALLY PLACED in some classes to attempt to offset appearances of impropriety....

OFC

What Dukejim99 also fails to consider is the actual reason for the creation of the classes in the first place. This is one key very relevant fact that Bilas does not consider, even for discussion purposes. My gut feeling is that the NCAA knows the answer and that it does not bode well for UNCHEAT. If these classes were not designed primarily to benefit the athletics program, one would think there would be a host of similar classes in which no work or attendance was required in other subject areas., in which case the SASC would not have let UNC off the hook so easily, Everyone understands Bilas' very shallow, poorly supported position. To argue, as Bilas' argument must assume, that these classes were created for the benefit of the UNC student population generally and that it is a mere coincidence that so many athletes were enrolled in the classes defies logic and common sense.

 

[hart2chesson]

What Dukejim99 also fails to consider is the actual reason for the creation of the classes in the first place. This is one key very relevant fact that Bilas does not consider, even for discussion purposes. My gut feeling is that the NCAA knows the answer and that it does not bode well for UNCHEAT. If these classes were not designed primarily to benefit the athletics program, one would think there would be a host of similar classes in which no work or attendance was required in other subject areas., in which case the SASC would not have let UNC off the hook so easily, Everyone understands Bilas' very shallow, poorly supported position. To argue, as Bilas' argument must assume, that these classes were created for the benefit of the UNC student population generally and that it is a mere coincidence that so many athletes were enrolled in the classes defies logic and common sense.

Bilas takes potshots at NCAA at drop of hat. Toss in UNC's survival to the stew, and he makes it all-out war....UNC Hoops is very important to ESPN and its network president!

OFC

 

[DukeJim99]

What Dukejim99 also fails to consider is the actual reason for the creation of the classes in the first place. This is one key very relevant fact that Bilas does not consider, even for discussion purposes. My gut feeling is that the NCAA knows the answer and that it does not bode well for UNCHEAT. If these classes were not designed primarily to benefit the athletics program, one would think there would be a host of similar classes in which no work or attendance was required in other subject areas., in which case the SASC would not have let UNC off the hook so easily, Everyone understands Bilas' very shallow, poorly supported position. To argue, as Bilas' argument must assume, that these classes were created for the benefit of the UNC student population generally and that it is a mere coincidence that so many athletes were enrolled in the classes defies logic and common sense.

Actually, I made that exact point earlier in this thread. See below.

The NCAA isn't, and shouldn't be, in the business of regulating academics at a school, no matter how deplorable the school's academic standards are. No matter how fraudulent they are. If student athletes receive no special rights to take these made up classes and instead have the same access to these classes as any member of the student population as a whole, then I can see how Bilas could convincingly argue that technically that's not the NCAA's business.

But I'm not sure I agree. I would hope intent would be relevant. If the bogus classes were created with the intent of benefiting student athletes who otherwise wouldn't be able to maintain academic eligibility, and the school opened the doors to the classes to the general student population solely to try to avoid the NCAA's jurisdiction, then I would hope the NCAA would still have the ability and inclination to investigate and punish. By contrast, a school that is just a sucky school that just historically has always given credit to all of its students for basket weaving, or bowling, or study hall or other BS classes... the NCAA should not have any say in that school's crappy academics, even if those crappy academics have the effect of benefiting student athletes.

The NCAA is about regulating the sports side of things, not the academic side of things.

 

[DukeJim99]

Orr challenges Bilas point however the NCAA is outside its jurisdiction in investigating this case on bylaw 10.1, per the "Unethical Conduct" charge.

He does. But he never addresses head on Bilas's contention that, so long as there was no special privileges given to student athletes that weren't available to other students, then the NCAA would arguably lack jurisdiction.

Regardless of who the classes were open to, SPECIAL ARRANGEMENTS were being made to make sure the athletes were receiving credit to maintain eligibility.

Btw the courses may have indeed been "open to all students" but they were not advertised to non SA's in the same manner. In addition, if you study the chain of emails between Crowder, Walden and the advisors, etc notice how non student athletes were INTENTIONALLY PLACED in some classes to attempt to offset appearances of impropriety....

If true, that would certainly undercut Bilas's position. (and forgive me for quoting you out of order)

Just as an aside I would put Orr's experience and credentials up against those of Mr. Bilas anyday. I have no doubt Bilas is a fine litigator, but Former State Supreme Court Justice Orr has a better grasp of criminal and civil law IMO.

But does he have a better grasp of NCAA bylaws, something Bilas has been focused on like a laser for at least a few years now?

And, remember, Orr is an advocate here. He's not acting as a judge. He represents some UNC students - he's ethically obligated to present the position most favorable for his clients that the law and facts can justify. He's not a neutral as regards this issue. Doesn't at all mean he's wrong. Just means maybe what he says needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Just as with Bilas, one should take his opinions with a grain of salt due to his clear anti-NCAA agenda.

 

[hart2chesson]

He does. But he never addresses head on Bilas's contention that, so long as there was no special privileges given to student athletes that weren't available to other students, then the NCAA would arguably lack jurisdiction.

However Orr IS CONTENDING the NCAA DOES have jurisdiction by virtue of "unethical conduct" in bylaw 10.1. Also the COI is bound to consider this shady curriculum was CREATED to keep student- athletes eligible, and wasnt the least bit concerned with Non-Athletes.





If true, that would certainly undercut Bilas's position. (and forgive me for quoting you out of order)

No worries, and enjoy the rational discourse btw...



But does he have a better grasp of NCAA bylaws, something Bilas has been focused on like a laser for at least a few years now?

And, remember, Orr is an advocate here. He's not acting as a judge. He represents some UNC students - he's ethically obligated to present the position most favorable for his clients that the law and facts can justify. He's not a neutral as regards this issue. Doesn't at all mean he's wrong. Just means maybe what he says needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Just as with Bilas, one should take his opinions with a grain of salt due to his clear anti-NCAA agenda.

As a wise old history professor once told me you know the definition of an expert dont you: "He who knows a lot about very little." Bilas may know a lot about NCAA laws, but his resume pales on the justice system and all nuances of law in general to Judge Orr.

OFC

 

[Devilinside]

Actually, I made that exact point earlier in this thread. See below.

Unlike Bilas, you at least try in your commentary to be objective and to look at both sides. The point I was trying to make, however, is that Bilas deserves no credibility because he is not hesitant to state his opinions despite the fact that there is so much he does not know about what is going on at the NCAA.

 

[Devilinside]

As a wise old history professor once told me you know the definition of an expert dont you: "He who knows a lot about very little." Bilas may know a lot about NCAA laws, but his resume pales on the justice system and all nuances of law in general to Judge Orr.

OFC

In addition, it is not like the NCAA rules are as difficult to understand and apply as, say, the Sherman Antitrust Act or even the statute which Comey refused to enforce according to its clear language. I would think that the NCAA rules would present far fewer problems than the procedural rules and statutes with which litigators deal every day. Moreover, Judge Orr has some other things going for him and boosting his credibility that Bilas is without, to include knowledge of at least some, if not most, of the relevant facts.and a reputation built upon correctly applying the law over many years, both as a lawyer and as a judge.

 

[hart2chesson]

In addition, it is not like the NCAA rules are as difficult to understand and apply as, say, the Sherman Antitrust Act or even the statute which Comey refused to enforce according to its clear language. I would think that the NCAA rules would present far fewer problems than the procedural rules and statutes with which litigators deal every day. Moreover, Judge Orr has some other things going for him and boosting his credibility that Bilas is without, to include knowledge of at least some, if not most, of the relevant facts.and a reputation built upon correctly applying the law over many years, both as a lawyer and as a judge.

Well said....

OFC

 

[skysdad]

I watch Matlock and Perry Mason. They both always win. Why? OFC

 

[DevilDJ]

The classes WEREN'T available to everyone. unx has done a bang-up job of convincing the base that they were. Deb Crowder kept a very tight leash on enrollment. Sure , some non-S/A's were in but that was 100% by design. The scam never works or goes undetected if these classes are filled with nuthin' but jocks year after year. The "frat circuit" ( Excuse me , a PORTION of the frat circuit ) was necessary to avoid the red flags. And another thing. Many of these classes were "bifurcated." The "regular" students took the exact same classes but were required to do actual college-level work while the athletes did nothing. So let's move on from this "The classes were available to all" crap. That's pure unx PR.

 

[hart2chesson]

The classes WEREN'T available to everyone. unx has done a bang-up job of convincing the base that they were. Deb Crowder kept a very tight leash on enrollment. Sure , some non-S/A's were in but that was 100% by design. The scam never works or goes undetected if these classes are filled with nuthin' but jocks year after year. The "frat circuit" ( Excuse me , a PORTION of the frat circuit ) was necessary to avoid the red flags. And another thing. Many of these classes were "bifurcated." The "regular" students took the exact same classes but were required to do actual college-level work while the athletes did nothing. So let's move on from this "The classes were available to all" crap. That's pure unx PR.

Thank You DEVIL DJ!!!

OFC

 

[LTDukeFan]

It is a good read. But it doesn't address the fundamental point behind what Bilas is saying, if I understand him.

In the article, Mr. Orr compares the fake classes scandal to a prior punishment that the NCAA issued when two UNC football players received "too much help" from a paid university tutor. But, presumably, non student athletes were not given paid tutors who provided too much help. So, that makes this "too much help from a tutor issue" completely distinct from the fake classes scandal.

Bilas's point, as I understand it, is that the NCAA is there to make sure athletes don't get special benefits - benefits that are unavailable to the student body as a whole. So, Bilas would certainly agree that punishment of the UNC football players was within the NCAA's jurisdiction - the NCAA properly punished UNC for giving athletes a benefit that was unavailable to non-athletes.

By contrast, the fake classes were open to everyone. So, Bilas says they weren't a special benefit available only to athletes and thus not an NCAA concern. Now, I'm still not convinced Bilas is correct. But, by failing to address the fact that the fake classes were open to the entire student body and thus arguably not a "special benefit" for athletes, Mr. Orr's article fails entirely to address the main thrust of Bilas's point, at least as I understand it.

I think the course are might be open for everyone, BUT the intention of the courses were to maintain eligibility for the athletes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/23/...veals-shadow-curriculum-to-help-athletes.html
https://www.forbes.com/colleges/university-of-north-carolina-at-chapel-hill/

The first link shows that during the time period of the paper courses --> over 47% of the students were varsity athletes.

now the second link shows that in 2016, the number of varsity athletes at UNC --> slightly over 5% of the student body.

If I _really_ wanted to make this look bad, I would find out the % of football and basketball players are represented by the student body and how many took the courses.

Do you see the point? The classes were designed to keep athletes eligible to play even though they shouldn't have. If some undergrad wants an easy "A", that is irrelevant -- the administration could really care less. The intent of the class was to provide a veneer of academic pursuits, when in reality it was to keep the basketball and football teams competitive with non-eligible student athletes.

I am not the brightest crayon in the box, but this seems pretty clear to me. Is my reasoning wrong?

 

[skysdad]

Does anyway like Bilas but me on this board. I get and understand the point many of you are trying to make but he does his job. True he defend unc on this academic scandal thing and the immediate eligibility of Johnson and unc but he is right from the legal sense. There is no doubt that unc cheated with the afam deal but the NCAA had no clear standards about it. Maybe this will change things. It still just raws my loins that they are going to get away with that. As far as the Johnson things go if a student/athlete has graduated early and has the eligibility left he or she should be able to go to the school of their choice. What if it were Duke and they had a great shot in getting a player from the same conference who had graduated and wanted to come play for us we would want him to be able to play right away wouldn't we. The thing that chaps my cheeks is that the rule needs to be changed but why was it allowed just because unc needed him. Something funny there. You better believe Jay would stand up for Duke if they were in that situation. I'm speaking of the transfer not the scandal because that ain't happening at Duke and a lot of others schools like the unc nation wants us to be. I know a lot of you really don't like Jay but try to put yourself in his job. Could you do it without showing a lot of favoritism toward Duke. I'm willing to bet he loves it when Duke beats unc or when anyone else does. I wish we all could ask Coach K feels about Jay or could play a round of golf with Jay. Bet you would like him. OFC

 

[Mac9192]

Does anyway like Bilas but me on this board. I get and understand the point many of you are trying to make but he does his job. True he defend unc on this academic scandal thing and the immediate eligibility of Johnson and unc but he is right from the legal sense. There is no doubt that unc cheated with the afam deal but the NCAA had no clear standards about it. Maybe this will change things. It still just raws my loins that they are going to get away with that. As far as the Johnson things go if a student/athlete has graduated early and has the eligibility left he or she should be able to go to the school of their choice. What if it were Duke and they had a great shot in getting a player from the same conference who had graduated and wanted to come play for us we would want him to be able to play right away wouldn't we. The thing that chaps my cheeks is that the rule needs to be changed but why was it allowed just because unc needed him. Something funny there. You better believe Jay would stand up for Duke if they were in that situation. I'm speaking of the transfer not the scandal because that ain't happening at Duke and a lot of others schools like the unc nation wants us to be. I know a lot of you really don't like Jay but try to put yourself in his job. Could you do it without showing a lot of favoritism toward Duke. I'm willing to bet he loves it when Duke beats unc or when anyone else does. I wish we all could ask Coach K feels about Jay or could play a round of golf with Jay. Bet you would like him. OFC

Respect the heck out of you Sky, and I agree with some of what you're saying but I can't buy all of it. The transfer thing is what bothers me. The kid has earned the right to play right away, just do it out of conference. Bilas is smart, no doubt, but I think he publicly praises The Holes a little too much. Just the way I feel. I think over the years he's tried to show he's fair and balanced to not let it be obvious he played for Duke, to the point where he is a little slower to talk highly of Duke where he will quickly praise The Holes. Just my take sir

 

[hart2chesson]

Does anyway like Bilas but me on this board. I get and understand the point many of you are trying to make but he does his job. True he defend unc on this academic scandal thing and the immediate eligibility of Johnson and unc but he is right from the legal sense. There is no doubt that unc cheated with the afam deal but the NCAA had no clear standards about it. Maybe this will change things. It still just raws my loins that they are going to get away with that. As far as the Johnson things go if a student/athlete has graduated early and has the eligibility left he or she should be able to go to the school of their choice. What if it were Duke and they had a great shot in getting a player from the same conference who had graduated and wanted to come play for us we would want him to be able to play right away wouldn't we. The thing that chaps my cheeks is that the rule needs to be changed but why was it allowed just because unc needed him. Something funny there. You better believe Jay would stand up for Duke if they were in that situation. I'm speaking of the transfer not the scandal because that ain't happening at Duke and a lot of others schools like the unc nation wants us to be. I know a lot of you really don't like Jay but try to put yourself in his job. Could you do it without showing a lot of favoritism toward Duke. I'm willing to bet he loves it when Duke beats unc or when anyone else does. I wish we all could ask Coach K feels about Jay or could play a round of golf with Jay. Bet you would like him. OFC

Jay who???? OFC

 

[skysdad]

Jay who???? OFC

Edit
Maybe ESPN will get rid of him and hire tyler hansbrough in his place or perhaps they can talk hubert davis into coming back. Don't you miss that cackle of his when he's pumping up his tar heels and telling Bilas how great hof coach roy williams is. Now those two guys would make a great team together and would be awesome when they did Duke/unc games. I know this board would love to hear and see them on Game Day or Game Night. Oh how about Michelle Beadle on the sidelines so she can knock Greyson Allen out as he came out of the locker room. Wouldn't you guys that despise Jay Bilas just love that team. OFC

 

[hart2chesson]

Edit
Maybe ESPN will get rid of him and hire tyler hansbrough in his place or perhaps they can talk hubert davis into coming back. Don't you miss that cackle of his when he's pumping up his tar heels and telling Bilas how great hof coach roy williams is. Now those two guys would make a great team together and would be awesome when they did Duke/unc games. I know this board would love to hear and see them on Game Day or Game Night. Oh how about Michelle Beadle on the sidelines so she can knock Greyson Allen out as he came out of the locker room. Wouldn't you guys that despise Jay Bilas just love that team. OFC

What time are you and your buddy Jay teeing off tomorrow Sky??? LOL, OFC

 

[skysdad]

What time are you and your buddy Jay teeing off tomorrow Sky??? LOL, OFC

It's Sunday and if I played golf it wouldn't be tomorrow however Jay is spending the 4th at my house. I'll tell him you love his work. OFC

 

[hart2chesson]

It's Sunday and if I played golf it wouldn't be tomorrow however Jay is spending the 4th at my house. I'll tell him you love his work. OFC

Lol, you do that Sky, and tell him his buddy Roy TRULY loves his work!

http://www.tarheeltimes.com/article58047.aspx

OFC

 

[skysdad]

Lol, you do that Sky, and tell him his buddy Roy TRULY loves his work!

http://www.tarheeltimes.com/article58047.aspx

OFC

LOL. I'm going to bed. Way past this old fart's bedtime. OFC

 

[hart2chesson]

LOL. I'm going to bed. Way past this old fart's bedtime. OFC

Nite Jay Jr......Lol, nite Sky OFC

 

[LTDukeFan]

Does anyway like Bilas but me on this board. I get and understand the point many of you are trying to make but he does his job. True he defend unc on this academic scandal thing and the immediate eligibility of Johnson and unc but he is right from the legal sense. There is no doubt that unc cheated with the afam deal but the NCAA had no clear standards about it. Maybe this will change things. It still just raws my loins that they are going to get away with that. As far as the Johnson things go if a student/athlete has graduated early and has the eligibility left he or she should be able to go to the school of their choice. What if it were Duke and they had a great shot in getting a player from the same conference who had graduated and wanted to come play for us we would want him to be able to play right away wouldn't we. The thing that chaps my cheeks is that the rule needs to be changed but why was it allowed just because unc needed him. Something funny there. You better believe Jay would stand up for Duke if they were in that situation. I'm speaking of the transfer not the scandal because that ain't happening at Duke and a lot of others schools like the unc nation wants us to be. I know a lot of you really don't like Jay but try to put yourself in his job. Could you do it without showing a lot of favoritism toward Duke. I'm willing to bet he loves it when Duke beats unc or when anyone else does. I wish we all could ask Coach K feels about Jay or could play a round of golf with Jay. Bet you would like him. OFC

I like Jay Bilas. He is a smart guy from my alma mater. He is a former player on my favorite team. And he is the most articulate announcer / analyst on TV today. I really appreciated the support that he gave the Duke Lacrosse team and the whole Mike Nifong debacle and the strong, public criticism of Duke past president, Dr. Brohead. It is unbelievable how a vast majority of the Duke community was ready to throw that team and their coach under the bus. Jay was a vehement supporter.

I don't agree with everything he says, but he doesn't come up with opinions that are half-assed or poorly thought out.

He did get his law degree from Duke. He passed the bar in NC. AND he does NOT make his living from practicing law. He knows law better than I do, but he is NOT the best lawyer in NC or NC / College sports for that matter. Period. He's not. The UNC affair is ONE BIG, CHOCOLATY MESS. I am still under the firm conviction that the Tar Heels do not get to skate away.

So @skysdad -- I'm with you. I like Jay, but sometimes he pisses me off. I know I like him, because of exactly that. If I didn't like him, I wouldn't care what he says.

 

[timo0402]

I like Jay Bilas. He is a smart guy from my alma mater. He is a former player on my favorite team. And he is the most articulate announcer / analyst on TV today. I really appreciated the support that he gave the Duke Lacrosse team and the whole Mike Nifong debacle and the strong, public criticism of Duke past president, Dr. Brohead. It is unbelievable how a vast majority of the Duke community was ready to throw that team and their coach under the bus. Jay was a vehement supporter.

I don't agree with everything he says, but he doesn't come up with opinions that are half-assed or poorly thought out.

He did get his law degree from Duke. He passed the bar in NC. AND he does NOT make his living from practicing law. He knows law better than I do, but he is NOT the best lawyer in NC or NC / College sports for that matter. Period. He's not. The UNC affair is ONE BIG, CHOCOLATY MESS. I am still under the firm conviction that the Tar Heels do not get to skate away.

So @skysdad -- I'm with you. I like Jay, but sometimes he pisses me off. I know I like him, because of exactly that. If I didn't like him, I would care what he says.

Well put.

 

[poppycat]

Lol, you do that Sky, and tell him his buddy Roy TRULY loves his work!

http://www.tarheeltimes.com/article58047.aspx

OFC

Pitino says "I love you Jay".

 

[hart2chesson]

Keep up the fight Rashad....Not everyone swallows the Bilas narrative:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...carolina-academic-scandal-ice-cube/446875001/

OFC

 

[DevilDJ]

While some of us are bashing Jay , let's not forget something. At no time has he ever defended unx...

In reporting it, I got the context wrong and mischaracterized Bilas’ views on the legitimacy of the classes at the heart of the scandal. I thought he was saying the classes were easy, not fake.

He said the evidence from various reports and investigations that exposed a system of classes that never met and provided a high grade regardless of the quality of work was “academic fraud from the get-go.”

“What happened here was awful, you are not getting any argument from me,” Bilas said.

He compared the situation to a murder involving a college athletics program.

“We can say it’s a failing of the NCAA rules, they should do this or they should have contemplated this or the (college) presidents were mistaken in ... not allowing the NCAA to go into this area,” Bilas said. “But that’s what the rules say, and that’s all I’m saying.”

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/college/article74273272.html

His "defense" of the holes has been , basically , the same one unx themselves are using...jurisdiction. Again , as shown , he knows unx cheated. Says so freely. He wasn't asked but I don't think it's a stretch to assume that he knows WHY it happened too. He's just sayin' it ain't in the NCAA's wheelhouse to sanction 'em for it. He's wrong.

 

[hart2chesson]

While some of us are bashing Jay , let's not forget something. At no time has he ever defended unx.

His "defense" of the holes has been , basically , the same one unx themselves are using...jurisdiction. Again , as shown , he knows unx cheated. Says so freely. He wasn't asked but I don't think it's a stretch to assume that he knows WHY it happened too. He's just sayin' it ain't in the NCAA's wheelhouse to sanction 'em for it. He's wrong.

In the context of what you are saying you are correct. However he's given Roy Williams a "pass" and "DEFENDED" him per his role in the so-called "junk" the entire time.

I respect Jay of the highest morals, etiquette, etc and the man is a marvelous analyst. However when he says things like "I believe Roy Williams," hes defending UNC. According to bylaw 10.1 of the NCAA bylaws UNC cheated, and the NCAA as you did note is in its wheelhouse in enforcing punishment.

However think about it: the "I believe in Roy Williams" quote has little value when the coach had an office across the hall from right hand academic liaison Wayne Walden, then refused to meet w/whistleblower Mary Willingham. Remember this is the same coach who promises incoming recruits "a world class education." Bilas also was a colossal failure in asking the Williams the tough questions in an interview regarding Rashad McCants claims. Btw that was the same interview McCants teammates sat after signing a pledge their educations were legit. Pledge-Yes, Interviews-No,Transcripts-Never!!!

OFC

 

[LTDukeFan]

While some of us are bashing Jay , let's not forget something. At no time has he ever defended unx...

In reporting it, I got the context wrong and mischaracterized Bilas’ views on the legitimacy of the classes at the heart of the scandal. I thought he was saying the classes were easy, not fake.

He said the evidence from various reports and investigations that exposed a system of classes that never met and provided a high grade regardless of the quality of work was “academic fraud from the get-go.”

“What happened here was awful, you are not getting any argument from me,” Bilas said.

He compared the situation to a murder involving a college athletics program.

“We can say it’s a failing of the NCAA rules, they should do this or they should have contemplated this or the (college) presidents were mistaken in ... not allowing the NCAA to go into this area,” Bilas said. “But that’s what the rules say, and that’s all I’m saying.”

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/college/article74273272.html

His "defense" of the holes has been , basically , the same one unx themselves are using...jurisdiction. Again , as shown , he knows unx cheated. Says so freely. He wasn't asked but I don't think it's a stretch to assume that he knows WHY it happened too. He's just sayin' it ain't in the NCAA's wheelhouse to sanction 'em for it. He's wrong.

So I think the NCAA DOES have jurisdiction in this case for the simple reason that the classes in question were used to allow academically ineligible athletes to keep playing. If the athletes had to take different courses with the rigor of real college classes they WOULD NOT be able to play. THEREFORE, players who took the classes to remain eligible and the institution that created the courses would have to be penalized in SOMEWAY for the UNFAIR advantage that this allowed. If the NCAA allows UNC to get away with this unfair advantage then it's credibility and mission are called into serious question.

I think my reasoning is pretty sound. What am I missing?

 

[hart2chesson]

So I think the NCAA DOES have jurisdiction in this case for the simple reason that the classes in question were used to allow academically ineligible athletes to keep playing. If the athletes had to take different courses with the rigor of real college classes they WOULD NOT be able to play. THEREFORE, players who took the classes to remain eligible and the institution that created the courses would have to be penalized in SOMEWAY for the UNFAIR advantage that this allowed. If the NCAA allows UNC to get away with this unfair advantage then it's credibility and mission are called into serious question.

I think my reasoning is pretty sound. What am I missing?

You're not missing anything.

OFC

 

[OldasdirtDevil]

Well, I basically see the UNC scandal as a form of money laundering, but instead with grades...for athletes.
Money laundering uses a legit business available to everyone (much like the AFAM classes to all students), but the intention is strictly dishonorable. The business (or class) is on the up and up, but the motive is to turn dirty into clean. And giving them their due, UNC is the best in the business.

OFC

 

[hart2chesson]

Well, I basically see the UNC scandal as a form of money laundering, but instead with grades...for athletes.
Money laundering uses a legit business available to everyone (much like the AFAM classes to all students), but the intention is strictly dishonorable. The business (or class) is on the up and up, but the motive is to turn dirty into clean. And giving them their due, UNC is the best in the business.

OFC

Perfect analogy Dirt!!!! Terrific pic!!
#RoyKnew

OFC

 

[Mac9192]

Well, I basically see the UNC scandal as a form of money laundering, but instead with grades...for athletes.
Money laundering uses a legit business available to everyone (much like the AFAM classes to all students), but the intention is strictly dishonorable. The business (or class) is on the up and up, but the motive is to turn dirty into clean. And giving them their due, UNC is the best in the business.

OFC

Sky, you are so right that the board perks up when Dirt posts. Your creativity is second to none Dirt. Better than the comics page in the newspaper

 

[DevilDJ]

You're not missing anything.

Yep. He's got it. Pretty much nailed it.

 

[DevilDJ]

So I think the NCAA DOES have jurisdiction in this case for the simple reason that the classes in question were used to allow academically ineligible athletes to keep playing. If the athletes had to take different courses with the rigor of real college classes they WOULD NOT be able to play. THEREFORE, players who took the classes to remain eligible and the institution that created the courses would have to be penalized in SOMEWAY for the UNFAIR advantage that this allowed. If the NCAA allows UNC to get away with this unfair advantage then it's credibility and mission are called into serious question.

I think my reasoning is pretty sound. What am I missing?

Nuthin.' Pretty much nailed it.

 

[OldasdirtDevil]

Perfect analogy Dirt!!!! Terrific pic!!
#RoyKnew

OFC

Glad you enjoyed, Hart.

OFC

 

[DevilDJ]

Well, I basically see the UNC scandal as a form of money laundering, but instead with grades...for athletes.
Money laundering uses a legit business available to everyone (much like the AFAM classes to all students), but the intention is strictly dishonorable. The business (or class) is on the up and up, but the motive is to turn dirty into clean. And giving them their due, UNC is the best in the business.

OFC

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