Bilas going out of his way to be defender of the Holes as usual.

[DukeJim99]

There are good lawyers and bad lawyers. There are biased lawyers and unbiased lawyers. There are competent lawyers and incompetent lawyers. There are lawyers who cannot, or refuse to, see the forest for the trees. There are lawyers who twist the facts to suit their arguments and those who do not. And there are lawyers who selectively cite rules out of context and those who do not. And there are lawyers who have the cojones to honestly and objectively address both sides of an issue, rather than giving a shallow legal opinion based upon an incomplete and possibly erroneous set of facts. So, the fact that Bilas is a lawyer should not necessarily provide him with credibility, especially when he ignores issues involving morality, honesty, principle, and, most importantly, logic.

Sure. Nobody would deny the vast majority of what you just said. But none of that was really responsive to my post either.

To address the one thing you said that maybe was responsive to my post... "So, the fact that Bilas is a lawyer should not necessarily provide him with credibility, especially when he ignores issues involving morality, honesty, principle, and, most importantly, logic."

Bilas was commenting solely on the NCAA's jurisdiction to punish UNC for the fake classes scandal. Do you know what's not relevant to the question of the NCAA's jurisdiction? Morality, honesty, and principle. Do you know what's only moderately relevant to a question of jurisdiction? Logic.

Again, a lot of people here seem to be assuming that Bilas is defending UNC. He's not. He's doing one thing and one thing only from what I've seen. He's questioning whether the NCAA has jurisdiction to punish UNC over the fake classes scandal. His answer to that question in no way speaks to his thoughts on UNC, their athletic program, Dean Smith, Roy Williams, the fake classes scandal, or Carolina Blue.

To summarize, the real question Bilas is raising is whether the NCAA has the authority to punish UNC for fake classes when those fake classes benefited not just student athletes, but the student population as a whole. Honest, intelligent people can disagree on the answer to that question. But the way one answers that question is in no way informative of how that person feels about UNC's fake classes.

 

[dukiejay]

Just a question here, but has Bilas publicly criticized UNC for this scandal? I am asking. I don't listen to him much outside of the game day stuff and his analysis on the teams, so maybe I'm missing something. We all know the Holes cheated, but has Bilas stated that as well? Maybe it's my dark blue goggles I wear but he seems to love questioning the NCAA but loves to compliment the Holes and Roy. I agree that his coverage and breakdown knowledge on the game is great though, maybe the best in the business.

It's a good question, and I don't know whether he has or not. I've never really heard him publicly criticize Syracuse or Louisville, either. In fact, while his own colleagues were criticizing Grayson last season Jay essentially went to bat for him.

I agree on his axe to grind with the NCAA. It's become somewhat overbearing. As for him complimenting the Heels and Roy, he does that with all teams....especially Duke. We just notice it more when it's the Heels. On top of that, whether we care to admit it or not, the Heels are one of the premier programs in the country. They're going to lauded...just as Duke and Kentucky are lauded too.

 

[dukiejay]

Sure. Nobody would deny the vast majority of what you just said. But none of that was really responsive to my post either.

To address the one thing you said that maybe was responsive to my post... "So, the fact that Bilas is a lawyer should not necessarily provide him with credibility, especially when he ignores issues involving morality, honesty, principle, and, most importantly, logic."

Bilas was commenting solely on the NCAA's jurisdiction to punish UNC for the fake classes scandal. Do you know what's not relevant to the question of the NCAA's jurisdiction? Morality, honesty, and principle. Do you know what's only moderately relevant to a question of jurisdiction? Logic.

Again, a lot of people here seem to be assuming that Bilas is defending UNC. He's not. He's doing one thing and one thing only from what I've seen. He's questioning whether the NCAA has jurisdiction to punish UNC over the fake classes scandal. His answer to that question in no way speaks to his thoughts on UNC, their athletic program, Dean Smith, Roy Williams, the fake classes scandal, or Carolina Blue.

To summarize, the real question Bilas is raising is whether the NCAA has the authority to punish UNC for fake classes when those fake classes benefited not just student athletes, but the student population as a whole. Honest, intelligent people can disagree on the answer to that question. But the way one answers that question is in no way informative of how that person feels about UNC's fake classes.

Well said.

 

[hart2chesson]

I don't think we completely see different sides, though. You know they cheated. I know they cheated.

Where we differ is that you think Bilas is in UNC's back pocket. Whereas I feel Bilas has become so anti-NCAA that some of his arguments are starting to look silly, thus the 'petulant child' remark from me prior. I can't think of one time where Jay has come to the NCAA's defense in last couple of years. It's just become his narrative. In that regard, it's become harder and harder to defend him.

All that said, taking the NCAA and UNC mess completely out of the equation....I think he is the best college basketball analyst in the country, bar none.

Dukiejay nice post...we agree yet disagree.

Bilas is great on x's and o's, and not only played for the GOAT, but was an asst under him a couple of years in the Laettner era IIRC. I respect and appreciate your views.When he called the Duke - UVA game in C'ville he made a very valid point about Duke's halfcourt zone pressure forcing Cavs to use up precious time on shot clock, and forcing them to speed up things, thus forcing bad shots.He's got great nuggets like that in his basketball strategy mind. I concur per the nuances of the game and breaking it down he's the best...For my money though, I would rather listen to the G-man, Grant Hill, even Fran Fraschilla do the analyst gig simply because of the arrogant way Jay comes across.




I just won't back off my own opinion about his being in Heels back pocket.....Theres just too many things I am aware of to change that view. However we are free to have our own slants on issues.Very respectfully, OFC

 

[Devilinside]

Sure. Nobody would deny the vast majority of what you just said. But none of that was really responsive to my post either.

To address the one thing you said that maybe was responsive to my post... "So, the fact that Bilas is a lawyer should not necessarily provide him with credibility, especially when he ignores issues involving morality, honesty, principle, and, most importantly, logic."

Bilas was commenting solely on the NCAA's jurisdiction to punish UNC for the fake classes scandal. Do you know what's not relevant to the question of the NCAA's jurisdiction? Morality, honesty, and principle. Do you know what's only moderately relevant to a question of jurisdiction? Logic.

Again, a lot of people here seem to be assuming that Bilas is defending UNC. He's not. He's doing one thing and one thing only from what I've seen. He's questioning whether the NCAA has jurisdiction to punish UNC over the fake classes scandal. His answer to that question in no way speaks to his thoughts on UNC, their athletic program, Dean Smith, Roy Williams, the fake classes scandal, or Carolina Blue.

To summarize, the real question Bilas is raising is whether the NCAA has the authority to punish UNC for fake classes when those fake classes benefited not just student athletes, but the student population as a whole. Honest, intelligent people can disagree on the answer to that question. But the way one answers that question is in no way informative of how that person feels about UNC's fake classes.

You are so wrong. The point which you miss and do not directly address is Bilas' indisputable bias (in my mind anyway) against the NCAA which causes him to take a myopic view of UNC's conduct. The issue is not whether morality, honesty, principle, and/or logic relate to the jurisdiction of the NCAA, but whether Bilas' bias against the NCAA (not so much in favor of UNC) causes him never to consult objectively the reasoning and intent behind NCAA rules and enforcement decisions and to make legally and factually questionable pronouncements about NCAA jurisdiction. Bilas' arrogance and one-sidedness divest him of any credibility, whether he is sermonizing on jurisdiction or anything else. Moreover, don't you believe that as a member of the media having a duty to report on issues, Bilas has a duty to accurately and objectively inform his readers regarding BOTH sides of an issue, rather than making predictions about the certain outcome of litigation and appeals which most seasoned litigators would never make given the uncertainties of litigation? Bilas gets away with this stuff because he is in the media and, thus, is unlikely to be questioned by anyone who has much of an audience.

 

[hart2chesson]

Bilas' arrogance and one-sidedness divest him of any credibility, whether he is sermonizing on jurisdiction or anything else. Moreover, don't you believe that as a member of the media having a duty to report on issues, Bilas has a duty to accurately and objectively inform his readers regarding BOTH sides of an issue, rather than making predictions about the certain outcome of litigation and appeals which most seasoned litigators would never make given the uncertainties of litigation?

100% agree....

OFC

 

[QC Dukie]

You are so wrong. The point which you miss and do not directly address is Bilas' indisputable bias (in my mind anyway) against the NCAA which causes him to take a myopic view of UNC's conduct. The issue is not whether morality, honesty, principle, and/or logic relate to the jurisdiction of the NCAA, but whether Bilas' bias against the NCAA (not so much in favor of UNC) causes him never to consult objectively the reasoning and intent behind NCAA rules and enforcement decisions and to make legally and factually questionable pronouncements about NCAA jurisdiction. Bilas' arrogance and one-sidedness divest him of any credibility, whether he is sermonizing on jurisdiction or anything else. Moreover, don't you believe that as a member of the media having a duty to report on issues, Bilas has a duty to accurately and objectively inform his readers regarding BOTH sides of an issue, rather than making predictions about the certain outcome of litigation and appeals which most seasoned litigators would never make given the uncertainties of litigation? Bilas gets away with this stuff because he is in the media and, thus, is unlikely to be questioned by anyone who has much of an audience.

Well said

 

[timo0402]

Moreover, don't you believe that as a member of the media having a duty to report on issues, Bilas has a duty to accurately and objectively inform his readers regarding BOTH sides of an issue, rather than making predictions about the certain outcome of litigation and appeals which most seasoned litigators would never make given the uncertainties of litigation? Bilas gets away with this stuff because he is in the media and, thus, is unlikely to be questioned by anyone who has much of an audience.

Here's the problem though with your take- Bilas is a colorman. He's not a journalist or a reporter. He technically doesn't have a duty to be objective and moreso as a color guy he's paid to give his opinion on the matter since he's supposedly a subject matter expert being a former player and coach- who just happens to have also be a lawyer. He was asked his opinion by reporters who were covering his camp and he gave it to them. You don't have to agree with his opinion. In a way it's like you don't have to agree with Rachel Madow or Sean Hannity who are cable news personalities rather than unbiased journalists.

 

[hart2chesson]

Here's the problem though with your take- Bilas is a colorman. He's not a journalist or a reporter. He technically doesn't have a duty to be objective and moreso as a color guy he's paid to give his opinion on the matter since he's supposedly a subject matter expert being a former player and coach- who just happens to have also be a lawyer. He was asked his opinion by reporters who were covering his camp and he gave it to them. You don't have to agree with his opinion. In a way it's like you don't have to agree with Rachel Madow or Sean Hannity who are cable news personalities rather than unbiased journalists.

I see your point, and given that narrative it causes ESPN as to become more like a FOX or MSNBC, per the personalities you mentioned. For instance you tune into College Basketball Gameday or any UNC game on ESPN, don't expect to hear anything about "the junk" to quote HOF coach Roy Williams.

OFC

 

[timo0402]

I see your point, and given that narrative it causes ESPN as to become more like a FOX or MSNBC, per the personalities you mentioned. For instance you tune into College Basketball Gameday or any UNC game on ESPN, don't expect to hear anything about "the junk" to quote HOF coach Roy Williams.

OFC

And it is precisely why I haven't tuned into espn at all, nor do I go to espn.com, nor do I watch any program other than a Duke game or live sporting event. They've become completely unbearable to me. And to further add to your point exactly, you tune in and expect to hear venom spewed about Grayson Allen all season long- sorry unsubscribe from me.

 

[DukeJim99]

You are so wrong. The point which you miss and do not directly address is Bilas' indisputable bias (in my mind anyway) against the NCAA which causes him to take a myopic view of UNC's conduct. The issue is not whether morality, honesty, principle, and/or logic relate to the jurisdiction of the NCAA, but whether Bilas' bias against the NCAA (not so much in favor of UNC) causes him never to consult objectively the reasoning and intent behind NCAA rules and enforcement decisions and to make legally and factually questionable pronouncements about NCAA jurisdiction. Bilas' arrogance and one-sidedness divest him of any credibility, whether he is sermonizing on jurisdiction or anything else.

Ok, you don't like Bilas and think he's one-sided. Got it. Care to actually address the point he's making about NCAA jurisdiction - the point I was addressing - or do you just want to continue to bash Bilas because (in your mind anyway) he's biased?

Moreover, don't you believe that as a member of the media having a duty to report on issues, Bilas has a duty to accurately and objectively inform his readers regarding BOTH sides of an issue, rather than making predictions about the certain outcome of litigation and appeals which most seasoned litigators would never make given the uncertainties of litigation? Bilas gets away with this stuff because he is in the media and, thus, is unlikely to be questioned by anyone who has much of an audience.

Ha. No, not at all. Bilas isn't a news reporter. His job isn't to accurately report both sides of a debate. Nor is there any reason he shouldn't weigh in as regards his opinion on the outcome of litigation. I mean, tune in to CNN or Fox News, both purported news channels, and you'll see lawyers making predictions about litigation outcomes all the time. Bilas was hosting a freaking basketball camp and got interviewed. He's not Morley Safer. Anyone who is expecting Bilas to objectively report both sides of an issue is confused, to put it mildly.

 

[hart2chesson]

And it is precisely why I haven't tuned into espn at all, nor do I go to espn.com, nor do I watch any program other than a Duke game or live sporting event. They've become completely unbearable to me. And to further add to your point exactly, you tune in and expect to hear venom spewed about Grayson Allen all season long- sorry unsubscribe from me.

Thank You sir! I will never excuse Grayson's behavior, but that kid proved he's a warrior withstanding the season long crusade against him from that network and helping lead Duke to an ACC Title....

All the while the narrative was the same from the network- "punch him out," "one game suspension????!!" etc....Great point...

OFC

 

[timo0402]

Ok, you don't like Bilas and think he's one-sided. Got it. Care to actually address the point he's making about NCAA jurisdiction - the point I was addressing - or do you just want to continue to bash Bilas because (in your mind anyway) he's biased?



Ha. No, not at all. Bilas isn't a news reporter. His job isn't to accurately report both sides of a debate. Nor is there any reason he shouldn't weigh in as regards his opinion on the outcome of litigation. I mean, tune in to CNN or Fox News, both purported news channels, and you'll see lawyers making predictions about litigation outcomes all the time. Bilas was hosting a freaking basketball camp and got interviewed. He's not Morley Safer. Anyone who is expecting Bilas to objectively report both sides of an issue is confused, to put it mildly.

Exactly. Same point I made earlier a few posts up- he's not a reporter. He's a color guy. A reporter asked him for his opinion. Whether you agree or disagree with it is fine, that's your prerogative, but he's not paid to be down the middle, and quite frankly may even those that are, hardly ever do.

 

[hart2chesson]

I agree w/Timo's assessment wholeheartedly Bilas is a commentator, and we must get used to his anti-NCAA narrative(which IMO, is heightened by his bias towards UNC for various reasons). The problem I have w/the network in general per College Gameday for instance is NO ONE will pick up the torch and CHALLENGE him on the issues per the UNC scandal.

Jay Will seems content to be a BILAS CLONE, and Greenberg distances himself from it as well. This gives all the more CREDENCE to ESPN painting themselves into a FOX or MSNBC type network of one sided reporting.

It further makes me understand the stance of Timo and other Duke fans I know boycotting the network except in cases when the boys from Durham are hooping!

OFC

 

[BluePhil]

I am beginning to dislike Bilas not because of his NCAA hatred or any perception he is a UNC shill. I dislike the fact that he is a color commentator with only about three colors in his Crayola box.

I am so sick of 80% of his time being spent talking about fouls (in the same way all the time). He needs some new material during games.

 

[QC Dukie]

Thank You sir! I will never excuse Grayson's behavior, but that kid proved he's a warrior withstanding the season long crusade against him from that network and helping lead Duke to an ACC Title....

All the while the narrative was the same from the network- "punch him out," "one game suspension????!!" etc....Great point...

OFC

Well said

 

[hart2chesson]

I am beginning to dislike Bilas not because of his NCAA hatred or any perception he is a UNC shill. I dislike the fact that he is a color commentator with only about three colors in his Crayola box.

I am so sick of 80% of his time being spent talking about fouls (in the same way all the time). He needs some new material during games.

On point and no doubt in part fueled by his appointment to College Hoops Officiating Competition Committee. Agree he drones on and on ad nauseum about what he perceives are very bad calls.....OFC

 

[Devilinside]

Ok, you don't like Bilas and think he's one-sided. Got it. Care to actually address the point he's making about NCAA jurisdiction - the point I was addressing - or do you just want to continue to bash Bilas because (in your mind anyway) he's biased?
I never did care about the point you tried to make regarding jurisdiction. My goal was not to get into the merits of the jurisdictional argument, which is something neither Bilas nor I can intelligently assess without more information. Sure, people can form opinions on anything, but those opinions can only have value if factually supportable. So, to answer your question, I do not think that at this stage Bilas, you, or I are capable of forming a creditable opinion on NCAA jurisdiction.


Ha. No, not at all. Bilas isn't a news reporter. His job isn't to accurately report both sides of a debate. Nor is there any reason he shouldn't weigh in as regards his opinion on the outcome of litigation. I mean, tune in to CNN or Fox News, both purported news channels, and you'll see lawyers making predictions about litigation outcomes all the time. Bilas was hosting a freaking basketball camp and got interviewed. He's not Morley Safer. Anyone who is expecting Bilas to objectively report both sides of an issue is confused, to put it mildly.

Well, you and I do not agree on lot of things, to include media responsibilities. First of all, "color men" are employed to provide "color" at events. Espn has greatly expanded the scope of Bilas' duties far beyond those of a colorman. He is now an information source who is asked to comment upon a wide variety of activities other than what is occurring in a particular game. Evidently, you believe that as a member of the media, Bilas can say anything he wants without any obligation to those who happen to hear him.

So that you are not confused, I absolutely do not expect Bilas to report or comment objectively on anything involving the NCAA. Moreover, unlike you, I believe objectivity to be an important component of honest commentary. Bilas has expressed his views on the NCAA on many occasions not just while hosting a camp. Finally, lawyers who express their opinions in the media about the strength of one side's case, almost always have a handle on the facts involved in the case, and will not opine without that handle or will qualify their opinions with assumptions as to the facts. Bilas has no knowledge of the facts relied upon by the NCAA, and should qualify his opinions by disclosing that fact so that the public can better determine how much credibility those opinions actually deserve. I will say that Bilas fits well into the media.

 

[Dattier]

Thats your opinion....I still think hes gone way over the line to where HE "LOOKS LIKE A WHINER." Lol, a Caroliner Whiner.....
He wont acknowledge the fact the classes were solely created for keeping athletes eligible. If you've followed the case at all you know secretary-paper grader Debbie Crowder stuck non-athletes in those classes (this is in the trail of emails) to make things look better on the surface....OFC

Yeah? What's your opinion of what you look like when you attack his character and create conspiracy theories instead of taking on his actual words?

 

[hart2chesson]

Yeah? What's your opinion of what you look like when you attack his character and create conspiracy theories instead of taking on his actual words?

My opinion is I think I am right....Bilas has a "conspiracy" against the NCAA IMO, trying to constantly govern their policies, interpreting what they can and cant do, etc...

As far as his actual words on the UNC scandal, I think he slants everything toward UNC's innocence because they are a ca$h cow for college basketball on ESPN, (including the Duke games which he does color)and his check is signed by a UNC grad.He also took the easy way out and said "I believe Roy Williams," when asked if he thought Roy was aware of the academic shenanigans.(RW of course said he had no knowledge, lol) However thats no surprise, hes being a company man.

He's a tremendous analyst of college hoops, I would never deny....Hope that gives you further insight datt....

 

[hart2chesson]

 

[hpnole]

It's a good question, and I don't know whether he has or not. I've never really heard him publicly criticize Syracuse or Louisville, either. In fact, while his own colleagues were criticizing Grayson last season Jay essentially went to bat for him.

I agree on his axe to grind with the NCAA. It's become somewhat overbearing. As for him complimenting the Heels and Roy, he does that with all teams....especially Duke. We just notice it more when it's the Heels. On top of that, whether we care to admit it or not, the Heels are one of the premier programs in the country. They're going to lauded...just as Duke and Kentucky are lauded too.

yes, the holes are going to be lauded, and I hope on probation for several years as well as forfeiting games going back to the stone age.

 

[DukeDenver]

I would argue that the option to enroll in fake classes at UNC was not presented the same way to athletes and regular students, hence the disproportionately high athlete enrollment. The NCAA may have an "in" when you pose it that way. Having greater access to the easy A's could be seen as an extra benefit.

 

[timo0402]

I would argue that the option to enroll in fake classes at UNC was not presented the same way to athletes and regular students, hence the disproportionately high athlete enrollment. The NCAA may have an "in" when you pose it that way. Having greater access to the easy A's could be seen as an extra benefit.

Not necessarily- there is priority in who schedules classes first for athletes at all shools. That is because they have the toughest schedules already and other reasons. For instance when I was in school athletes, grad students, honor students then seniors got to schedule first and then juniors, Sophs and finally freshmen.

 

[hart2chesson]

Not necessarily- there is priority in who schedules classes first for athletes at all shools. That is because they have the toughest schedules already and other reasons. For instance when I was in school athletes, grad students, honor students then seniors got to schedule first and then juniors, Sophs and finally freshmen.

Still, the writer a former NC Supreme Court judge and UNC ALUM brings to the table a point of clarification Bilas erred upon. Thats the real point here, per "unethical conduct" on UNC's part. If the COI zeroes in on this, the "junk" as Roy calls it, hits the fan!

OFC

 

[timo0402]

Still, the writer a former NC Supreme Court judge and UNC ALUM brings to the table a point of clarification Bilas erred upon. Thats the real point here, per "unethical conduct" on UNC's part. If the COI zeroes in on this, the "junk" as Roy calls it, hits the fan!

OFC

I was only addressing Denver's post about scheduling, nothing else.

 

[hart2chesson]

I was only addressing Denver's post about scheduling, nothing else.

No worries, just did not want THE REAL POINT of Orr's column to be overlooked. Its not everyday Bilas gets challenged in the print media.

OFC

 

[DukeDenver]

Not necessarily- there is priority in who schedules classes first for athletes at all shools. That is because they have the toughest schedules already and other reasons. For instance when I was in school athletes, grad students, honor students then seniors got to schedule first and then juniors, Sophs and finally freshmen.

But at most schools, everyone knows which easy classes are available. I'd bet UNC did more than just give athletes registration priority. I bet those fake courses were only advertised to valuable athletes. The other students in there were likely getting tips directly from the players to sign up.

 

[hart2chesson]

But at most schools, everyone knows which easy classes are available. I'd bet UNC did more than just give athletes registration priority. I bet those fake courses were only advertised to valuable athletes. The other students in there were likely getting tips directly from the players to sign up.

To your point Denver the only way the general population of non student-athletes was made aware was via word of mouth from student-athletes.

OFC

 

[timo0402]

But at most schools, everyone knows which easy classes are available. I'd bet UNC did more than just give athletes registration priority. I bet those fake courses were only advertised to valuable athletes. The other students in there were likely getting tips directly from the players to sign up.

There's no question about that. That part is the "steering" certain guys to those classes. Obviously all schools have easy classes and everyone knows what those are. This was a completely different house of cards that was going on.

 

[hart2chesson]

There's no question about that. That part is the "steering" certain guys to those classes. Obviously all schools have easy classes and everyone knows what those are. This was a completely different house of cards that was going on.

#Nailed

OFC

 

[DevilDJ]

Not necessarily- there is priority in who schedules classes first for athletes at all schools. That is because they have the toughest schedules already and other reasons. For instance when I was in school athletes, grad students, honor students then seniors got to schedule first and then juniors, Sophs and finally freshmen.

This is 100% correct when done to accommodate an athlete's unique schedule.Thing is , it ain't what happened at unx. This was less about "schedules" and more about "clustering" jocks into specific courses..."courses" , lest we forget , where admission was tightly monitored by Deb Crowder. She had as much business doing that as you or I. She often supplied the assignments and grades for those courses too...ANOTHER thing she had no business doing. No need to re-adjudicate all that mess here but unx doesn't have a leg to stand on if they try and use any version of a "priority scheduling" defense. The e-mails shot all that down.

 

[skysdad]

I've been trying to stay away from this thing on Bilas , the unc academic scandal and his take on the NCAA . Now maybe Jay just might feel that unc in reality has cheated but with his background in law he see's something that we as Duke fans are going to have to come to grips with in the fact that unc is going to get off because of the way the legal system is going to look at it. The UL situation is different because it had to do with recruiting benefits. Maybe he is looking at it logically and we are looking at it from a right/wrong perspective. Maybe he would like to have things change as to where unc is guilty without question. Yes Jay does have an ego but he is not employed by Duke University. I keep hearing about a College Sports Commissioner and how Jay would make a good one but can you imagine the uproar from unc fans if that happened. Look everyone who knows anything about college sports knows unc cheated and no matter what the outcome is that won't change. I think it was dukiejay that said Jay Bilas is very loyal to the Duke program and Coach K. Correct dj if wrong. I also see how the things Jay says can rub us Duke fans the wrong way and how Gminski and Spanarkel both are are better than Jay but their jobs are a little different than Jays. Things need to be changed by the NCAA when it comes the the academic and the afam scandal. It was created to benefit unc athletes but by allowing all students to take the course got them a pass but they knew what they were doing down in chapel hill and everyone knew what they were pulling off. hof coach roy williams knew, dick baddour knew, dean smith knew, johnny boy swofford knew and bubba cunningham knows. It's a crying SHAME and every University in the nation should protest the way The University of North Carolina has conducted itself through all of this. It's an insult to all unc alumni that got their degrees from hard work and integrity many of them my close friends and relatives. I expect some disagreement but nothing personal to anyone. OFC

 

[hpnole]

I've been trying to stay away from this thing on Bilas , the unc academic scandal and his take on the NCAA . Now maybe Jay just might feel that unc in reality has cheated but with his background in law he see's something that we as Duke fans are going to have to come to grips with in the fact that unc is going to get off because of the way the legal system is going to look at it. The UL situation is different because it had to do with recruiting benefits. Maybe he is looking at it logically and we are looking at it from a right/wrong perspective. Maybe he would like to have things change as to where unc is guilty without question. Yes Jay does have an ego but he is not employed by Duke University. I keep hearing about a College Sports Commissioner and how Jay would make a good one but can you imagine the uproar from unc fans if that happened. Look everyone who knows anything about college sports knows unc cheated and no matter what the outcome is that won't change. I think it was dukiejay that said Jay Bilas is very loyal to the Duke program and Coach K. Correct dj if wrong. I also see how the things Jay says can rub us Duke fans the wrong way and how Gminski and Spanarkel both are are better than Jay but their jobs are a little different than Jays. Things need to be changed by the NCAA when it comes the the academic and the afam scandal. It was created to benefit unc athletes but by allowing all students to take the course got them a pass but they knew what they were doing down in chapel hill and everyone knew what they were pulling off. hof coach roy williams knew, dick baddour knew, dean smith knew, johnny boy swofford knew and bubba cunningham knows. It's a crying SHAME and every University in the nation should protest the way The University of North Carolina has conducted itself through all of this. It's an insult to all unc alumni that got their degrees from hard work and integrity many of them my close friends and relatives. I expect some disagreement but nothing personal to anyone. OFC

Good post. I had really hoped that the holes would get nailed and that Swoffard would resign. His ego would never permit that. I just hope the next commissioner does not come from an ACC member school.

 

[hart2chesson]

I've been trying to stay away from this thing on Bilas , the unc academic scandal and his take on the NCAA . Now maybe Jay just might feel that unc in reality has cheated but with his background in law he see's something that we as Duke fans are going to have to come to grips with in the fact that unc is going to get off because of the way the legal system is going to look at it. The UL situation is different because it had to do with recruiting benefits. Maybe he is looking at it logically and we are looking at it from a right/wrong perspective. Maybe he would like to have things change as to where unc is guilty without question. Yes Jay does have an ego but he is not employed by Duke University. I keep hearing about a College Sports Commissioner and how Jay would make a good one but can you imagine the uproar from unc fans if that happened. Look everyone who knows anything about college sports knows unc cheated and no matter what the outcome is that won't change. I think it was dukiejay that said Jay Bilas is very loyal to the Duke program and Coach K. Correct dj if wrong. I also see how the things Jay says can rub us Duke fans the wrong way and how Gminski and Spanarkel both are are better than Jay but their jobs are a little different than Jays. Things need to be changed by the NCAA when it comes the the academic and the afam scandal. It was created to benefit unc athletes but by allowing all students to take the course got them a pass but they knew what they were doing down in chapel hill and everyone knew what they were pulling off. hof coach roy williams knew, dick baddour knew, dean smith knew, johnny boy swofford knew and bubba cunningham knows. It's a crying SHAME and every University in the nation should protest the way The University of North Carolina has conducted itself through all of this. It's an insult to all unc alumni that got their degrees from hard work and integrity many of them my close friends and relatives. I expect some disagreement but nothing personal to anyone. OFC

The part Jay IS OVERLOOKING in the NCAA bylaws is the "Unethical Conduct" rules which were violated by folks on the payroll at UNC for steering athletes into those sham courses. Sure they can claim athletes from the student body were in those same classes, but that was the advisers, Debbie Crowder, making it look good so to speak by sprinkling in the non SA's. Its all in the chain of emails.

As for Bilas taking over some czar of college sports role, I think UNC fans would be totally in favor of it at this point....Regardless of what you say his viewpoint is or where if/any bias lies, he's been Tar Heels biggest booster involving any punishment from the NCAA. OFC

 

[youngman42]

He's being challenged on this, and he should be. Jay is so against everything NCAA-related that he's starting to sound like a petulant child.

I think this is the real issue. He's so bothered by players not getting paid (as most of us are) that this colors his perspective.

The reality is, UNC used fraudulent classes to help their student athletes stay eligible - which is rigging the game. It's cheating every other school that did not do that, and as a result, it should be penalized.

Now, if the NCAA wants to change the rules of the game - and I think they will if they want to survive in a meaningful way, especially with re- to basketball - great. But, that cannot change that UNC cheated under the rules.

 

[hart2chesson]

I think this is the real issue. He's so bothered by players not getting paid (as most of us are) that this colors his perspective.

The reality is, UNC used fraudulent classes to help their student athletes stay eligible - which is rigging the game. It's cheating every other school that did not do that, and as a result, it should be penalized.

Now, if the NCAA wants to change the rules of the game - and I think they will if they want to survive in a meaningful way, especially with re- to basketball - great. But, that cannot change that UNC cheated under the rules.

Like the book title by Rob Anderson:

"Tarnished Heels"

#AsteriskNattys

OFC

 

[QC Dukie]

Like the book title by Rob Anderson:

"Tarnished Heels"

#AsteriskNattys

OFC

Amen brother

 

[LTDukeFan]

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This is a good read. Robert Orr -- the author of the op.ed. -- is a former NC Supreme Court justice. He is also a graduate of UNC, undergrad and law school. He is also representing a number of UNC athletes in a class action suit.

UNC will not get to walk away from this one. Sorry -- not going to happen.

 

[hart2chesson]

Great summary LT!!

OFC