Banchero taking the last shot makes sense. I get Moore is a junior, but he has been struggling mightily in ACC play.
***DUKE VS FLORIDA STATE OFFICIAL GAMEDAY THREAD***
- Thread starter krzyzewskiville
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No dog in this fight but Banchero as your end of game plan is a sound one. His ability to lob it to Williams is really unguardable, and his ability to rebound his own miss and get it back up is also really not something a lot of teams can contend with. I do think the lack of a true PG for Duke is always a shock, because I'm used to you having someone who is AA caliber pretty much every year. Roach is a nice player but just doesn't have the two way game to be as much of a concern.
You guys made a ton more threes than I expected you to tonight. I honestly think overreacting to this loss is based on a historical perspective of FSU. I've seen a lot of respect from this board no doubt, but we have a culture and set of players that just do a lot of little things that still can help us overcome a more talented team.
You guys made a ton more threes than I expected you to tonight. I honestly think overreacting to this loss is based on a historical perspective of FSU. I've seen a lot of respect from this board no doubt, but we have a culture and set of players that just do a lot of little things that still can help us overcome a more talented team.
1- Why did we switch back to man after the zone brought us back?
2- why did we not call a timeout?
I said it once and I'll say it again... That's 3 games we didn't execute at the end!
Good thing... We were in all 3 games
Bad thing... Didn't execute and lost all 3
2- why did we not call a timeout?
I said it once and I'll say it again... That's 3 games we didn't execute at the end!
Good thing... We were in all 3 games
Bad thing... Didn't execute and lost all 3
Ya I gotta put this one on K.
I personally think we stayed with the Zone for too long, it definitely was a great switch up, but just rewatched the end of the game and it seemed like FSU was starting to figure out the zone. But I dont think you switch from going zone for the last 8 minutes of the game to man with 10 seconds to go. I think that puts our own players out of rhythm defensively. Then the zone just got completely destroyed in OT.
I actually think the offense ran very well once Keels went down (hope everything is all good with him). The ball just moved better with Roach and Paolo as the secondary ball handlers. I think this offense will go much better with those guys seeing more on ball action and Keels being more of a catch and shoot guy.
But you need to run a set and get your best player the ball with that final shot. We had a timeout, call it with 8 seconds to go once Moore crossed half court and set up a play.
I personally think we stayed with the Zone for too long, it definitely was a great switch up, but just rewatched the end of the game and it seemed like FSU was starting to figure out the zone. But I dont think you switch from going zone for the last 8 minutes of the game to man with 10 seconds to go. I think that puts our own players out of rhythm defensively. Then the zone just got completely destroyed in OT.
I actually think the offense ran very well once Keels went down (hope everything is all good with him). The ball just moved better with Roach and Paolo as the secondary ball handlers. I think this offense will go much better with those guys seeing more on ball action and Keels being more of a catch and shoot guy.
But you need to run a set and get your best player the ball with that final shot. We had a timeout, call it with 8 seconds to go once Moore crossed half court and set up a play.
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Ya the thing is I dont really mind these loses because road losses in the ACC happens, that is just doing business in the ACC. But I dont mind them as long as we learn from the losses.
Like again I hope the coaching staff thinks to themselves, wow that offense seemed to turn another gear when we gave Paolo and Roach bigger roles with the offense in their hands. Also Keels shot is best when he is in a catch and shoot situation. Maybe we start making that adjustment and giving Keels less of an all ball role and Paolo and Roach a bigger role on the ball.
And in tight game situations, maybe lets not just roll with it and see what happens. Lets call the timeout and come up with the play we want and one we are confident can get us a bucket.
Can't agree more. With a young team I think you have to call the timeout and settle the guys down. I dunno... It's almost 2am and I'm still so frustrated not only on this game but also losing money on a missed free throw at the end in an NBA game
Ya the zone and man stuff I cant get over pretty quick. But that last play is very frustrating and very reminiscent to the RJ/Zion end of game miscues. Where we had one of the best college basketball players of all time and multiple games we didnt find ways to get him the ball.
Duke vs Gonzga:
Zion makes a basket with 1:45 to go to tie the game at 87-87. For the next 1:45 Zion doesnt put up another shot while RJ goes 0-5 in that span and we lose 87-89.
Duke MSU:
Zion makes a basket with 1:44 to go to put us up by 3 66-63. For the next 1:44 Zion doesnt put up another shot while RJ goes 0-2 and 1-2 from the line and we lose 67-68.
There really is just no excuse not to call a timeout and draw up a play. Paolo had 20 points on 6-11 shooting, so its not like he was having an off night. We cant have late game miscues like we had with that Zion team and like we have seen so far this year.
Game story on this one -- it's unlocked and hopefully answers some questions (or at least answers what K was thinking with late-game decisions).
We had homecourt, you were down by 7 and made a run, down one of your best players, and you were a coin flip away from winning. Have to think you'll improve in some areas between now and the tournament. I'll be interested to see how each team does between now and the rematch, we have to find consistency from key players that we aren't getting right now in order to be as good as we can be. Unfortunately, with the overall conference been so down this year, a top 3 finish in conference almost seems mandatory to feel safe for Selection Sunday.
Both teams displayed a lot of fortitude last night, I would have been crushed with a loss since we have very few opportunities to get resume building wins this year. What really stinks is that you were basically the #1 team sans the miami loss, which would have had some even better reverberations for our profile. Hopefully a group of 4 can make the conference profile improve so we aren't all in dog fights in the first and second rounds of the tournament.
Both teams displayed a lot of fortitude last night, I would have been crushed with a loss since we have very few opportunities to get resume building wins this year. What really stinks is that you were basically the #1 team sans the miami loss, which would have had some even better reverberations for our profile. Hopefully a group of 4 can make the conference profile improve so we aren't all in dog fights in the first and second rounds of the tournament.
I give Fl. State credit, it really battled on the boards. I think Fl. State can shoot better and will improve as the season progresses.
If we don't figure out how to rebound (box out? move our feet instead of reach?) we are just an above average team. Can't give up so many more shots than we take.
If we don't figure out how to rebound (box out? move our feet instead of reach?) we are just an above average team. Can't give up so many more shots than we take.
I think the team has 2 issues. One is toughness. Getting out rebounded, and not finishing strong around the basket are perfect examples. Banchero goes through stretches where he seems soft, then can turn it on and dominate. We need less of the soft from him, and Williams too. Theo is tough, he’s just offensively challenged.
The other issue IMO, is the lack of a true point guard. Sure, we have guys that bring the ball up, but, we need that guy that when he has the ball, makes good decisions, and makes it tough on the other team. This lack of a true point is why we have had so many turnovers in these losses.
The other issue IMO, is the lack of a true point guard. Sure, we have guys that bring the ball up, but, we need that guy that when he has the ball, makes good decisions, and makes it tough on the other team. This lack of a true point is why we have had so many turnovers in these losses.
1- That same zone worked well, but did give up an open three ball almost every possession. Luckily FSU did not make them earlier. On the last possession we could not afford to take that chance. FSU, like Miami made the big time play down the stretch that Duke has been unable to make. We are due to make a few of these but ya gotta get the ball to the rim first.
2 - I would have liked to seen a TO in hindsight - but If Wendell makes the veteran play and throws the ball up to Mark and we win, were all talking about how great it was not to call the TO. Out of the TO the lop was going to be twice as hard to get.
I think this a game K was OK with losing as a teaching point. Sure he reallllllly wanted to win if course, but this loss will be used and looked back on as a net positive sooner then later. I really believe that.
GO DUKE
Says a lot about the majority of the contributions here when the opposing fan base comes over to console us. Our 5th Champion team - 6 YEARS AGO - was not perfect before March Folks. GET A GRIP. I continue to love this team. ENJOY THE RIDE
Very winnable game...15-5 on turnovers and gave up 19 offensive rebounds...both within our control with concentration and effort. This has been symptomatic with our teams over the last few years, as it appears young players don't value the ball as much and rebounding is by convenient positioning and not effort or fundamentals. We've seen this story before so we shouldn't be surprised..its about this time every year that our teams peak and become what they are.....
Haha, I wouldn't say console. Honestly, just a bit perplexing given what Duke has in their lineup and how they are viewed nationally. Times are a changing but you're still Duke. That recruiting class you have coming in next year is filthy, and some of these guys will be here next year as well. I'm hopeful that we can get to closer to a .500 record against Duke on a regular basis, for all the rivalry talk, we don't beat you nearly as often as I think some feel we do.
FSU made us look sloppy last night. They had more energy and passion than us for most of the game. 15 turns and giving up 19 offensive rebounds is a recipe for the local high school team to beat us. 
Still we had a chance to win at the end of regulation and in OT. I hate that we lost, and I share some of the sentiments already mentioned. They couldn't stop Banchero at the end, why on earth did he not have the ball in his hands? In the end it was an entertaining game to watch despite the outcome. Let's get back on track over the weekend and win out in conference play! Let's go Duke!
Still we had a chance to win at the end of regulation and in OT. I hate that we lost, and I share some of the sentiments already mentioned. They couldn't stop Banchero at the end, why on earth did he not have the ball in his hands? In the end it was an entertaining game to watch despite the outcome. Let's get back on track over the weekend and win out in conference play! Let's go Duke!
Big difference between 2015 and this team. 2015 team rebounded and had a solid three coming off the bench. Yeah they took some losses but they were true losses. Dukes three this season is on Duke. 17/5 and last night I think was 14/4( turnovers and offensive rebounds) that’s high school teaching fundamentals. Boxing out being strong with the ball.
But at this point in the season you would have different complaints then the comparables to this squad! I am sure when Rasheed got kicked off the team, or the 1/11-1/13 stretch which included back to back losses and an at home beat down from Miami you were on here thinking we were national title contenders opposed to an elite 8 out.
Chill out, enjoy the good, enjoy the ride. I personally remain confident very good things await - if that helps you at all
FSU made us look sloppy last night. They had more energy and passion than us for most of the game. 15 turns and giving up 19 offensive rebounds is a recipe for the local high school team to beat us.
I've watched some of the HS games on ESPN this year out of interest to see how our new recruits play and have been surprised at how sloppy those games are. There is very little attention to solid defense and the shot selection and ball handling all seems to be very individualistic. So its hardly surprising that we see the same issues when those players arrive at Duke....they are one year removed from programs that haven't focused on fundamentals at all. Add in AAU and you have what we see year in year out with these young but talented teams. When the game gets tighter and tougher, we don't have the mentality or understanding to be successful with our teams. I miss the days of JWill, Battier, Laettner, Redick, Thomas etc ...when we had players who refused to be beaten and would be the leader needed to get us across the line in close games.
Tough L last night and that one stings. I will say that K does deserve some blame here and that's the reality. His offense has been stale for a number of years now and it's for sure frustrating. Hoping we can hit open shots Saturday to beat the Cuse zone.
No I had Duke in the sweet 16 that year .But at this point in the season you would have different complaints then the comparables to this squad! I am sure when Rasheed got kicked off the team, or the 1/11-1/13 stretch which included back to back losses and an at home beat down from Miami you were on here thinking we were national title contenders opposed to an elite 8 out.
Chill out, enjoy the good, enjoy the ride. I personally remain confident very good things await - if that helps you at all
I have this years team in the sweet 16. I expect at least two more losses in Conference play. I never put us winning it all since 2010.
Where’s the chill out coming from? I’m not worried a loss is a loss a win is a win.This team lacks physicality and it was on display in all three losses.
Did not return. Put a little weight on it walking off the court and was doing some running in the tunnel a few minutes after eval. Came back in street clothes. Current status is possible calf injury according to K's post presser.
I know I'm gonna get some hate on here for saying this but K has lost some touch. I guess it's expected since he's been good for so long but year after year we get the best recruits and can't get to our/my expectations of final 4 or champions. Larranaga has done well with players year in and year out. Same can be said for Jay Wright. Leonard Hamilton been great and he's 14-0 in OT games. That comes down to coaching! 3 times we couldn't close out a game this year with less than a minute to go.
I see us as sweet 16 and unless we win the ACC championship, I see us as a 3 seed.
Bring the hate responses.. I'm expecting them lol
I see us as sweet 16 and unless we win the ACC championship, I see us as a 3 seed.
Bring the hate responses.. I'm expecting them lol
The simple truth many do not care to admit is without question in my mind K is the goat but for the last 5 yrs or so It seems he has simply lost his touch. We just roll the ball our there and try to "out talent" you. Looks like another year where we have the talent and tools to win it all but we won't make it past sweet 16 or elite 8. I mean 0 final fours the last 6 yrs and at least 4 or 5 of them we had the talent to do so. And how long has it been since we've won the acc what at least a decade I think more. Depressing with our talent.
I don't know how much we can blame Coach K for the fact that we have mostly freshmen and they are imperfect players. There is no classic point guard. We have one stud and a number of good but flawed players. Yes I'd love to see more structured offense but our offense is still highly rated. I'd love to see better more disciplined rebounding but Shelden and Zion aren't on the roster.
We are competing to be the best and there are only a few teams who compete every year to be the best. Don't you think UNX would trade records and teams with us?
We are competing to be the best and there are only a few teams who compete every year to be the best. Don't you think UNX would trade records and teams with us?
No hate at all and I respect your viewpoint but just genuinely would like to discuss.
I share the same expectations as you in terms of F4 or NC even with the parity that surrounds college bball...but who would you rather trade him with and over what period of time? We'd be knocking Cal for underachieving. We'd knock Izzo for not getting enough talent. We'd knock Few for not getting a chip. Self only has 1 in like 20 years. The list goes on.
Are we a S16 team? To me, that is relative to the field and a game of odds. We probably beat any 4 or 5 seed in a game of 7.....in a single elimination format? Idk I'd say we win more times than not.
Guess what I'm trying to say is we win a lot of games and losses like this happen (last year sucked I admit). Two 20-minute halves...good shots may not fall, bad shots may go in for the other team, 50/50 balls may not go our way, playing on the road, etc. I think you just have to put your team in the best position to get a win. You can make an argument either way on if he did that last night but think of it like this...two fouls from Jeremy (and that lucky shot against Miami) that may not have happened and we could be sitting easily with 1 loss right now...and we really should have ran away in that game. On the bright side, we are getting extremely valuable experience to fix the end game stuff right now.
Has he lost some touch though? Yeah possibly. That type of end game situation should have been practiced to execute something better I would think (and luckily will be now). Paolo was struggling to bring the ball up earlier and I can't remember us having enough time to run any type of set that wouldn't have resulted in him launching anything other than a 3. Going to zone was pretty brilliant though as FSU's half court offense is really bad. Had we won the game...people would be praising that move even more.
40-11. 39-11 under Coach K. Great win last night though. Suffocating defense. Was at game. When live you get an even better sense of how long and athletic Noles are
I'm torn on this thing. I love the talent that Duke brings in year after year but we are also dealing with the one and dones.
I was looking at the title teams.
1991 and 1992
Hurley
Hill
Laettner
Davis
Hill
2001
Battier
Williams
Dunleavy
James
Boozer
2010
Smith
Singlet
Scheyer
Thomas
Zoubek
What did all of these teams have in common? Guys that knew their role and veteran leadership. And to be honest these teams had killers.
The only outlier would be the 2015 team but even they had Quinn Cook and guys that just seemed to jell.
You just don't have the time to build and groom. You hope that it hits like 15. This leaves you running offenses similar to what we see in the NBA, a lot of 1 on 1 and iso plays.
Hopefully this team continues to grow and we have the ending to the season we all hope.
And yes, I would of drew up a play for Banchero to take the last shot.
I was looking at the title teams.
1991 and 1992
Hurley
Hill
Laettner
Davis
Hill
2001
Battier
Williams
Dunleavy
James
Boozer
2010
Smith
Singlet
Scheyer
Thomas
Zoubek
What did all of these teams have in common? Guys that knew their role and veteran leadership. And to be honest these teams had killers.
The only outlier would be the 2015 team but even they had Quinn Cook and guys that just seemed to jell.
You just don't have the time to build and groom. You hope that it hits like 15. This leaves you running offenses similar to what we see in the NBA, a lot of 1 on 1 and iso plays.
Hopefully this team continues to grow and we have the ending to the season we all hope.
And yes, I would of drew up a play for Banchero to take the last shot.
Here is my thing with the timeout call imo. it has always been coach k's MO in these situations to take the ball down the court and try to score while the defense is "scrambling" to get setup or situated. I am sure they practice this many time and to expect a different result at the end of game situation last night probably isn't fair. however, there was no urgency for wendell to bring the ball up the court and if I remember correctly when the ft was made, a few seconds elapsed before the ball was gathered and inbounded. at that point I feel like you have lost any chance of catching the defense scattered and it would be have been better to rush the ball up the court call a TO and draw up a play with about 10 seconds or so left.
While it's fun to compare teams of the 1990's and and 2000's to today's team it's really an apples to oranges comparison IMHO. The "industry" has changed so much in the one and done era with so many players on blueblood teams leaving early. Imagine having any of these top players for 3 or 4 years. Imagine a junior/senior Tatem, Ingram, Irving, Barret, Jones(x2), Zion, etc, etc, etc.
