Would Duke have cut the nets down withTHIS Giles???

[jwill133]

The heart breaking part, for him and Duke, is that Giles is likely to only ever be about 85-90 percent of what he could have been without any injuries. And even so, he'll still be a star in the NBA.
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People who don't obsess over HS recruiting will never understand how good Giles could have been. HS potential wasn't (quite) that of LeBron James, but Kevin Durant was a reasonable comp. Not the same type of game, but the same type of ceiling. I say, without being hyperbolic, that Giles might have been a rich man's Tim Duncan. Think about that. One of the 2 greatest PFs (him or Karl Malone) of all time. Giles could have been better than that. But he lost 3 very important years from a development POV. Both his game and his personality. Those are the years when a kid learns to be "selfish" and dominate, to impose his will on the game. He can be good, still. He could even be a HOF player. But he won't be as good, possibly by a good amount, as he COULD have been sans injury.
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He was that amazing.

Agree with all this. Chris Webber is the Giles comparison that I remember reading/hearing about the most.
What's crazy is Webber is gonna get in the hall-of-fame, but he didn't exactly live up to his potention in the NBA, he had a good career, but not as great as it should have been.

 

[PatrickYates]

If you really want to feel your soul get crushed, strap in.
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If Giles never gets hurt, Amile Jefferson doesn't redshirt after his injury as a senior. With Tatum and a healthy Giles, Amile returns late his senior year. He provides the post depth we need, as well as the additional defense and rebounding, to maybe make a FF run. It was Allen's best year, and Ingram was starting to impose his will on the game. Allen probably goes pro. Amile Graduates. I think he could have come back that year, but he wanted a full senior season. Plus, after Giles's injury, Amile saw a clear path to PT as a RS Sr. Plus, Amile probably realized that Duke might NEED him after Giles's injury, so he made a decision that might have been in Duke's best interests at that point. But, with a healthy Giles en route, I think he returns to Duke and we have a good, and possibly GREAT end to that season (possibly preventing Nova's first title under their current coach, and that might have paid big dividends long term).
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Anyway, on to the next year. After an All-American year, possibly after a FF run, Allen is a solid early 20s, or late teens, pick, and he goes pro. That leaves Luke Kennard and Matt Jones as our wings at Duke, with Tatum and Giles as our bigs. K no longer has to figure out how to get Kennard, Allen, and Matt Jones on the court as much as possible. Not having Kennard and Allen on the court at the same time fixes the perimeter defense. Throw in a healthy Giles, and opposing guards are scared to venture into the lane to shoot.
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No joke, we might have had a 1992 type of season. There would have been too much inexperience to finish undefeated, but we'd have lost a precious few games. We'd have finished atop the ACC regular season, not 6th, and been the 1 seed, not playing 30 minutes from the USC campus vs USC. We probably win the title, again. As an additional kick in the fun bags, Luke Kennard probably has a smaller role on that team, and he returns for his junior year after getting an iffy late round grade from the NBA.
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Last year, Luke would have been a much better fit on that team than the more ball dominant Allen. Roles would have been clearer, and I think a junior Luke Kennard would have been a dead-eye three point shooter probably hitting 40+ percent on a bunch of attempts. That would have opened up the lane, a bunch. The ball would have been firmly in TD's hands, because Luke had less PG in him than Allen did. A few more wins last year, which would have happened with Luke (better fit than Allen last year) and Duke is probably a 1 seed opposite the winner of the Nova-KU game.
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Not only would an injury free Giles have delivered a title his year, we would have been in a great position to win any of the last 3.
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One injury can ripple across seasons when that injury hits a pivotal player like Giles.

 

[PatrickYates]

Agree with all this. Chris Webber is the Giles comparison that I remember reading/hearing about the most.
What's crazy is Webber is gonna get in the hall-of-fame, but he didn't exactly live up to his potention in the NBA, he had a good career, but not as great as it should have been.

Brief correction. Webber was the comparison AFTER the first injury. With no injury, Tim Duncan would have been the comp. And they'd have been comparing HS senior Giles to college sophomore Duncan, and possible even college junior Duncan.
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Giles looked like a pretty good HS senior (say, in the 25-50 range) as a HS frosh.

 

[jwill133]

If you really want to feel your soul get crushed, strap in.
.
If Giles never gets hurt, Amile Jefferson doesn't redshirt after his injury as a senior. With Tatum and a healthy Giles, Amile returns late his senior year. He provides the post depth we need, as well as the additional defense and rebounding, to maybe make a FF run. It was Allen's best year, and Ingram was starting to impose his will on the game. Allen probably goes pro. Amile Graduates. I think he could have come back that year, but he wanted a full senior season. Plus, after Giles's injury, Amile saw a clear path to PT as a RS Sr. Plus, Amile probably realized that Duke might NEED him after Giles's injury, so he made a decision that might have been in Duke's best interests at that point. But, with a healthy Giles en route, I think he returns to Duke and we have a good, and possibly GREAT end to that season (possibly preventing Nova's first title under their current coach, and that might have paid big dividends long term).
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Anyway, on to the next year. After an All-American year, possibly after a FF run, Allen is a solid early 20s, or late teens, pick, and he goes pro. That leaves Luke Kennard and Matt Jones as our wings at Duke, with Tatum and Giles as our bigs. K no longer has to figure out how to get Kennard, Allen, and Matt Jones on the court as much as possible. Not having Kennard and Allen on the court at the same time fixes the perimeter defense. Throw in a healthy Giles, and opposing guards are scared to venture into the lane to shoot.
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No joke, we might have had a 1992 type of season. There would have been too much inexperience to finish undefeated, but we'd have lost a precious few games. We'd have finished atop the ACC regular season, not 6th, and been the 1 seed, not playing 30 minutes from the USC campus vs USC. We probably win the title, again. As an additional kick in the fun bags, Luke Kennard probably has a smaller role on that team, and he returns for his junior year after getting an iffy late round grade from the NBA.
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Last year, Luke would have been a much better fit on that team than the more ball dominant Allen. Roles would have been clearer, and I think a junior Luke Kennard would have been a dead-eye three point shooter probably hitting 40+ percent on a bunch of attempts. That would have opened up the lane, a bunch. The ball would have been firmly in TD's hands, because Luke had less PG in him than Allen did. A few more wins last year, which would have happened with Luke (better fit than Allen last year) and Duke is probably a 1 seed opposite the winner of the Nova-KU game.
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Not only would an injury free Giles have delivered a title his year, we would have been in a great position to win any of the last 3.
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One injury can ripple across seasons when that injury hits a pivotal player like Giles.

That's a lot to take in, and yes it hurts.
2016- Amile returns, I still don't think were title contenders, probably do better than a 4 seed though in the NCAA's, Elite 8 would have been a fantastic year for that team.

2017- this is the one that hurts. Plain and simple, we get the real Harry Giles, we are in the discussion of an "all-time team" and I truly believe that. I still think Grayson ultimately helps this team, provided his role was a scorer off the bench (which it eventually became), and most importantly, Harry down-low would have helped clean up Luke/Grayson's defensive deficincies.

2018- I still think were gonna win the title. Still think were the best team. Truly believe it was just a cursed year, see Grayson's roll against Kansas. We left that title on the table. We beat Nova in the final four....70K football stadium against our zone, plus Marvin/Wendell eat every offensive rebound.
Add Luke to the 2018 bunch and things wouldn't have even been fair. He knocks down 40% of his threes easy.

 

[topps coach]

[QUOTE="dukehokie, post: 11278237, member: 712"

Other notable injuries or absences:

Art Heyman (maybe Duke’s first title if he played)
Elton’s freshman season
Shav’s back and foot injuries throughout
Daniel Ewing’s broken pinky prior to UConn ‘04

TRUE, and Bob Verga getting flu before
the loaded team with Lewis, Reidy, Marin and Vacendak played Kentucky in FF in late 60s. Bobby still played! He was a prolific scorer,but could only muster 4 pts as he struggled to play ailing. Still the Devils only lost 83-79. Duke would have squared off against eventual champ Texas Western had they got by the Wildcats.

OFC[/QUOTE]
This in spades imo one of our top five teams of all time.All five staters played professionally and three of them made the an all star team.Yes youngens there was Basketball at Duke before K

 

[topps coach]

Jim i hear what you’re saying in regards to DT. I do think another summer (a full one at that) and a year under his belt in the duke system would have beneficial to both him and the team. I’ll comtinue to stress, I’m by no means saying he was the perfect solution nor would he necessarily have received the same amount of minutes he did his freshman year, to your point. However, that team was devoid of a PG and he would have fit in well there imo. Odd man out for minutes would probably be a combination of the guys you mentioned.

As far as Ty Jones, no one thought he was leaving until we started to really look like we could do something special in March. As you said, no back up plan and that of course leads to DT reclassifying and coming a year earlier. Probably screwed up two seasons- but you don’t trade two possibles for the title we got in 2015. Comes with the territory. In some ways we are still recovering from the Tyus loss. No we bring in tre. No one would think he goes right?

I hope Tre is an OAD because imo the only way that happens is we win the NC just like his brother

 

[timo0402]

I hope Tre is an OAD because imo the only way that happens is we win the NC just like his brother

Ideally, gun to my head I’d say he stays for at least two years but it’s 2018 so you never know.

 

[PatrickYates]

Ideally, gun to my head I’d say he stays for at least two years but it’s 2018 so you never know.

The current HS class is incredibly weak at PG. Cole is a superstar, but it is a wasteland after that. Tre might move into the late teens by virtue of shining vs a weak class.
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The inherent risk in that strategy is that the current wasteland of PGs features guys with good potential. All it takes is for a few of the guys with better size and athleticism to shore up the skill/shooting portion of their games, and Tre would drop a little.

 

[skysdad]

We will never know. OFC

 

[Laettshow]

I dont think so for the simple fact the team never seemed to have chemistry. One thing that is far overlooked is a team that everyone knows their role. You never knew what you were getting with this team IMO.