The New Lounge

[smashmouth5]

Obama-era change to human testing, now implemented, sparks concerns of Tuskegee syphilis experiment

Ever since the Tuskegee case, U.S. scientists have been required to obtain “informed consent” from research subjects.

justthenews.com

Big Pharma and the government seem to enjoy skipping down that golden road together. Would love to know how many of our elected representatives reached their millionaire status thanks to this inside knowledge.

 

[Dattier]

View embedded media

That kind of reminds me of those maps conservatives like to show of the US color-coded red and blue according to how they voted. It looks overwhelmingly red, but neglects the fact that land doesn't vote, and huge swaths of the country are red but represent very few people. Look at a similarly color-coded NC gubernatorial map and it will look like a GOP landslide, too.

The US spends more on our military than the rest of the top 10 countries combined. China and India together spend about 1/3 of the US, despite a combined population of 9-10 times more than us. Military might comes from military spending, not population.

Here's a rundown leading up to what we saw in the video.

*take the commentary in the tweet for what it is. The video is the intent.

View embedded media

Also, before the meeting in the video, Zelensky made it seem that he was going to sign the deal. Only to make it clear that he was back peddling as soon as the cameras were on. According to Rubio. It was obvious that Zelensky wasn't serious about reaching a deal that didn't include NATO membership or security guarantees that would lead to an escalation of tensions. Not peace.

The video is of a Trump Secretary telling the Trump Admin's side of it to FoxNews. It's not even his job to be objective.

What do any of you see with your own eyes in the entire 50-minute video to indicate Zelensky started the fight?

 

[Dattier]

Well, if that ain't perspective. Now we have the U.K. and Germany all but publicly committing to put boots on the ground. If that happens, the U.S. should pull all funding to NATO. The same people who said Trump was going to start WWIII are now pissed that he is trying to do everything he can to prevent it.

What difference is it to Ukraine if preventing WW3 means a compromise with Russia that means conceding land and resources to them?

 

[GhostOf301]

What difference is it to Ukraine if preventing WW3 means a compromise with Russia that means conceding land and resources to them?

What difference does it make to us if Ukraine wants to keep fighting a war that they can't win?

 

[GhostOf301]

The video is of a Trump Secretary telling the Trump Admin's side of it to FoxNews. It's not even his job to be objective.

What do any of you see with your own eyes in the entire 50-minute video to indicate Zelensky started the fight?

You Zelensky fan boys are the worst.

 

[KDSTONE]

What difference is it to Ukraine if preventing WW3 means a compromise with Russia that means conceding land and resources to them?

You mean besides saving tens of thousands of lives? Preventing any more of their women and children from being raped?
The sad fact of the matter is that Putin will never agree to a peace that doesn’t include at least some of the land he has illegally taken. So in that sense he will be rewarded for his naked aggression.
The only other alternative is the US and Europe do what it takes to remove Russia from Ukraine Whether it’s boots on the ground or overwhelming military arms support, there’s no stomach for that politically.

 

[Dattier]

What difference does it make to us if Ukraine wants to keep fighting a war that they can't win?

That's not really a reasonable take. I was serious. President Trump wants to end the war as quickly as possible; if that means Ukraine concedes things to Russia, I can see why ending it as quickly as possible takes a backseat to ending it as justly as possible for Ukraine.

If someone stole something from you and it went to court, would it be acceptable if the judge said they only had to give back some of it?

 

[Dattier]

You Zelensky fan boys are the worst.

I wasn't asking rhetorically.

 

[GhostOf301]

That's not really a reasonable take. I was serious. President Trump wants to end the war as quickly as possible; if that means Ukraine concedes things to Russia, I can see why ending it as quickly as possible takes a backseat to ending it as justly as possible for Ukraine.

If someone stole something from you and it went to court, would it be acceptable if the judge said they only had to give back some of it?

Trump has said that he doesn't know if the ceasefire plan will lead to peace. But without sitting down and negotiating, they won't even be able to get to a ceasefire. And Zelensky has shown no willingness to even negotiate without us giving them security guarantees, which this administration will not do. Zelensky won't even hear agree to stop fighting assuming Russia takes the ceasefire deal at first. I don't blame him for being skeptical, but I do blame him for trying to bully us into allowing him to dictate our foreign policy.

Zelensky was offered a way out of war with no concessions of the 2022 land. The Biden administration told him not to take the deal and now, here we are. Billions of dollars later arguing with a brat who is being given terrible advice that will not end well for his people.

 

[Dattier]

I heard him pointing out that Putin has broken promises more than 20 times. How was he bullying us?

What would a security guarantee look like?

A quick search for the 2022 peace proposal says Putin put it together. Is that the one? If so, again considering how untrustworthy he is, why would he have gone for it?

 

[BOOGIEMAN1914]

That hard to give an honest opinion, huh? You'll claim that it wouldn't be worth your time. That's fine.

I am torn. I don't think it is a good look for our country. But at the same time, the point in this meeting outside of the rare earth minerals was to get to a point of agreement for a ceasefire. Zelenski thinks he can take billions of U.S. dollars with no intentions of paying it back and then lecture the leaders of America in the oval office live in TV on why he won't agree to a ceasefire. Time and a place.


If Putin were taking billions and billions of U.S. dollars and disrespected the oval office, do you not think they'd talk to him that way? Do you see any fault in Zelensky for how this went down?

I dont, and Putin wouldnt be in the need of needing what Ukraine is needing...other countries are aiding Ukraine as well and the money is in many forms, loans, grants, direct aid and etc....also a large bulk if I understand correctly of the military aid/equipment is dated and we were upgrading/phasing out, not 100% on my wording there....i dont think he disrespected anyone imo, seems like it was all set up in the beginning when trump talked about his dress upon arrival....he is a wartime president, same way basically churchill was dressed when he visited the white house during wartime.....leading countries are involved to help support a sovereign country from being wrongfully invaded, if Ukraine taken were would it stop?....thats why leading countries are so invested

 

[BOOGIEMAN1914]

What isn't talked about enough is Zelensky having his army forcefully take Ukrainian men off the streets and forcing them to fight a war they can't win. Vance rightfully called him out on that too.

why are they having to fight a war anyway?

 

[GhostOf301]

I heard him pointing out that Putin has broken promises more than 20 times. How was he bullying us?

A quick search for the 2022 peace proposal says Putin put it together. Is that the one? If so, again considering how untrustworthy he is, why would he have gone for it?

Like I said. I don't blame him for being skeptical. But do blame him for trying to dictate our foreign policy. By changing the time and place to sign the minerals agreement that he knew the terms 3 times and coming into Washington, then deliberately turning it into spectacle in front of the world because he was obviously advised to do so, that is how he was bullying us.

It's pretty simple at this point. It was the previous administration's policy to write blank checks. It is not this administration's policy. If Zelensky wants U.S. aid (not USAID) then they will need to adhere to our policy. Which first and foremost will involve no U.S. soldiers. If that is something they are not willing to accept, that is certainly their right. But we shouldn't be writing another check for their war to continue when they don't want to take a single step to end it.

 

[GhostOf301]

why are they having to fight a war anyway?

By deflecting, you're saying it is okay for them to round up unwilling citizens and force them to fight in a war they cannot win.

Russian wrongfully invaded Ukraine. Could have been prevented, but it wasn't. So now there should just be war forever without sitting down and negotiating a simple ceasefire without demanding other countries commit to war with Russia?

 

[Dattier]

Like I said. I don't blame him for being skeptical. But do blame him for trying to dictate our foreign policy. By changing the time and place to sign the minerals agreement that he knew the terms 3 times and coming into Washington, then deliberately turning it into spectacle in front of the world because he was obviously advised to do so, that is how he was bullying us.

It's pretty simple at this point. It was the previous administration's policy to write blank checks. It is not this administration's policy. If Zelensky wants U.S. aid (not USAID) then they will need to adhere to our policy. Which first and foremost will involve no U.S. soldiers. If that is something they are not willing to accept, that is certainly their right. But we shouldn't be writing another check for their war to continue when they don't want to take a single step to end it.

How did he try to dictate our foreign policy? Asking for things isn't that.

How did he turn it into a spectacle? VP Vance especially, and President Trump were both far more aggressive and critical of him than he was of us. They were also taking all kinds of shots at the Biden administration, which, deserved or not, seemed off-topic. I don't really begrudge them that -- I'm pretty used to that being our President's MO -- but it was much more of a spectacle than anything President Zelensky did.

Is "security guarantees" code for US troops on the ground?

It's not about refusing to take a single step; it's about taking the right step.

 

[Dattier]

By deflecting, you're saying it is okay for them to round up unwilling citizens and force them to fight in a war they cannot win.

Russian wrongfully invaded Ukraine. Could have been prevented, but it wasn't. So now there should just be war forever without sitting down and negotiating a simple ceasefire without demanding other countries commit to war with Russia?

Sounds like a crude form of conscription, which cis men still have to sign up for at 18 in our country.

Kudos for acknowledging Russia is in the wrong, but I don't understand how you can hold it against Ukraine that they are still fighting when Russia is still attacking.