Those schools still have academic integrity, same with ND. Just about everyone else cares about $$$ and winning games.
You aren’t going to win big in football or basketball when you only take kids with a 4.0 GPA and a 30+ ACT score.
Pitt fan here… let’s talk realignment
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You aren’t going to win big in football or basketball when you only take kids with a 4.0 GPA and a 30+ ACT score.
Ironic that two of the schools voting against ACC expansion are the two most expected to leave the ACC, Clemson and FSU. The other two are NC State and (N)Carolina. If the vote remains that way, it ain't happening. Need twelve of fifteen to approve expansion.
Guess we can have another vote after the defection from ACC.
OFC
Guess we can have another vote after the defection from ACC.
OFC
Welcome back Champion CrazyCat.Do YOU want Cal & the Tree @ the ACC (all things considered?
I was talking about expansion in general, and commenting on the four "no" voters, who must have some nefarious motive, based on $$$ of course.
No, I don't want The Tree or OJU. I didn't even want Louisville, because Kentucky isn't on the Atlantic coast! That's how old school I am!!
But to be against expansion as a general principle, in these nutty times, seems odd.
I think (and have thought before) that there are several southern schools which, even though may start out as bottom feeders, have the potential, with added revenue, to become respectable members of the ACC. For example, East Carolina, Richmond, Delaware, Furman, those Florida alphabet schools that I can't keep straight (Central, Southern, etc.) and my favorite, Georgia Southern, my favorite because it's 25 miles from my house. There are probably others, but I just woke up and am due for back surgery, so I'm not thinking all that straight.
On a side note, where are all the climate activists complaining about flying the women's soccer team by jet all the way to and from UCLA and Rutgers? If they take electric busses it will take two weeks each way.
Good luck this year, Cat, in whatever conference you end up in. Fork OFC
Good luck "Soup" on the back surgery. Think I am ultimately headed down that road too.
I like your REGIONAL angle. I am in favor of Appalachian State joining the ACC. They wouldn't bring much in basketball, but what a football fanbase. ACC schools are genuinely scared to schedule them on any consistent basis in football.
No, ASU wouldn't bring in some awesome TV market, but quality of football would be ENHANCED!! Their rivalries with schools in the Carolinas and Virginia would generate excitement. App's win at Texas A&M last year nearly got Aggies HC Jimbo Fisher a pink slip! OFC
Interesting view on App St. It is quite possible they could be a plus. I could see a scenario where they become a top 20 team, if they got into a good conference.
Like you said, they have a passionate fan base, and are a very popular college, at least in NC anyway.
Why not just merge conferences? The Big 12 could merge with the Pac 12 and form the big 24 or something with two different divisions; east and west. Sounds like that is what will happen anyway. They could do a road trip where you play the west coast schools; but that would be 1-2 weeks away from your school.
Thanks Mac, and perhaps the ACC affiliation could help them in hoops recruiting. OFC
I could get much more excited KD about App's inclusion than the others, because I am in-state. I have wanted Duke to play the Mountaineers for years in football, because it would put at least 25,000 in the stands in Durham.
Of course don't forget FSU's dominance for years in ACC fb, when they initially joined the league. You make a good point about their slide in recent years. Unfortunately Duke is the lone ACC team without a fb win over the 'Noles. Overall though you make a really good point. BC was a big mistake.
OFC
Syracuse and BC seemed like a good fit and they added the Northeast tv markets. That was the bill of goods they sold but those are pro sports towns: New York and Boston. It did little to help the Acc tvwise which explains the mess we’re in now. Syr made a lot of sense basketball wise but they’ve been more inconsistent than I’d have predicted. Bc: you nailed it.
I think the ACC got hurt in many ways when schools like Miami and VT failed to keep their football prowess up. To a lesser extent- BC, Cuse, Lville.
If we had a conference that consistently threw out 2-4 legit threats for the CFP each year we could argue we are fine as a conference. But we rode the backs of Clemson for 5-8 years and FSU before that, both unchallenged. So we need more schools to get better and in a hurry.
On the topic of App State- hart makes a good point and to me explains the problem for Duke. App State would indeed bring in thousands to Wallace Wade. Problem is, it’s of little financial significance to the ACC and more importantly it just emphasizes the fact that Duke can’t fill Wallace Wade. Elko is Dukes last hope at football relevance. If he bolts after this year or next for a “better program” Duke will continue to be nothing more than a stepping stone program. I say last hope because Duke is at the point of having to beg and plead that unc takes us with them. Financially it makes zero sense but there’s at least a hope.
If teams like Miami, VT, Pitt. BC, can pick it back up in football it’ll help.
It’ll be interesting to see what happens.
Simple answer? Money. Same with Clemson, Unc, uva and Nc state. Whether they’re good or not they are state schools who drive revenue and tv ad dollars. The reason the other two conferences of relevance want them.
Pretty sure they have one of the top recruiting classes again in CFB. They’ll be fine and when the playoffs expand they will be right there. FSU ain’t the problem, they’re just exposing it, and this is coming from a guy who despises FSU. Another program I despise? Miami. They need to get it together too.
They have a Heisman trophy candidate at QB and an outside shot at the CFP. Have really started working the portal to fill holes. The ACC needs football drivers to stay alive.
Likelihood UNC would even care about us to bring us along? And likelihood a conference would agree?
It’s possible with Dukes pedigree academically and basketball tradition the Big 10 takes us. I’d wager that uva and unc would be their first two choices but I’m not sure how much better UVAs football program is, maybe in perception but not reality.
I think Duke would be a terrible fit for the Big 12 culturally but it’d be a great bball conf
Rumor has it that FSU will get the money for the exit fee and they’ve talked to Jo Morgan and others about equity, so they’re gone. Question is who else leaves?
Their wins over Lsu and Florida were big for conf last year esp since Clemson lost to South Carolina and Tenn
It wouldn’t be bc Carolina lifted a finger to help us; but that’s the narrative they’ll spin no doubt
FSU may be elite this year in the future. But in this what have you done for me lately culture, I listen to FSU throw it's weight around when in the last 20 years, other than flashes, I do not think it sniffs top 15 football brands...
My whole point is, and we do not know what is going on behind the scenes. IMHO, living in an age where middle aged men care more about history than todays youth, Clemson offers more in terms of football greatness and Miami offers more in television market. But FSU is the driver (at least publicly)?
FSU’s ratings are better than Miamis. Half the people wearing Cane swag don’t even watch the games. Their attendance isn’t much better than Wallace Wades. FSU has a huge series lead on Clemson and both have three national titles. FSU has three Heisman winners Clemson zero. Famous athletes not even close. FSUs enrollment about the other two combined so your post is more or less a swing and miss
FSU leads the series 20 to 15 so I whiffed on that one a bit Clemson hasn’t lost since ‘ 14 so it was one sided before Dabo got there
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Just a brief pause in the discussion to acknowledge the Pitt fan who started this thread. It's a good one and an important one. Thanks, Pitt fan.
OFC
OFC
OK, Hart. Out with it. How did you hear about that erstwhile nickname "Soupy?" I've got to know.
OFC
Pitt fans and to a lesser extent Duke fans should be very worried. Along with Wake Bc and Gt. Possibly Syr. Along with Cal Stanford maybe Smu. Could be the makeup of the Acc in a few years. Mia, Vt and Ncsu to the Big 12. Four schools: FSU, Clemson, Unc and Uva to the Big 10.
The ACC and PAC sat on their hands while the Big 12 which had been gutted, pivoted and made moves.
My guess is the ACC figured most of the Big12 schools aren’t prestigious academic schools. Which is a dumb way to think in 2023, those non prestigious academic schools are bringing in hundreds of millions of dollars more than the smart schools.
Frankly, I don't see Nebraska, Minnesota, Iowa or Ohio State as top rated schools. The Big10 used to care about the AAU ratings but not anymore.
I would love to see Duke playing K State, Kansas, Baylor etc. every year.
I would love to see Duke playing K State, Kansas, Baylor etc. every year.
I can’t buy this opinion. But, if you are right about the ACC not going after schools due to them not being prestigious academic schools, then the leaders of the conference aren’t fit to be Wal Mart door greeters.
I’m not sure about currently (makes sense though since we considered Stanford & Cal). But when we added Syracuse & Pitt, WVU also wanted to come to the ACC.
Would WVU have saved us? No. But we didn’t take them because as a state school they are rated pretty low.
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Only because they were among the few schools left after the mass exit.
And they are rumored to have gone after Oregon and Washington and were rejected.
You’re talking about a different era when Syracuse and Pitt were added. No one knew then what was going to unfold.
If a power conference is interested in adding academic institutions in 2023? They are committing suicide, and are not a power conference.
As inept as our leaders may be, I find it hard to believe that are that dumb.
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