PG woes

[jcdevilfan]

Hey guys, try to keep in mind that Life is like beer; CHILL for best results! Geez, all the OP ask about was an opinion on the impact of Thornton leaving or returning. I don't think his post meant have at each other.
This has been an exceptional year for "Murphy's Law" to take effect. Try to think positive and appreciate what we do have to be grateful for. If it weren't for all the injuries and Coach K having surgery, he would probably be in the running for Coach of the Year! And laugh if you want, it could still happen yet. Try to imagine what he is going through, not knowing from the start which players he would have and when?!
I'm not totally satisfied with the way this year has gone, but hey, these kids have battled, they are right in the thick of the ACC race, they have the best Coach in CBB, and they are getting better every day! Sure, time is getting short, but as long as he has time, Duke has a chance. All we have to worry about is player health (no more injuries), K will take care of the rest.
Hang in there everyone, I have a strong feeling "IT'S GONNA BE OK!"
Go Duke!
OFC

 

[Showenuff]

So we can't beat Gonzaga unless Giles and Bolden get more minutes. Neat concept. I anxiously await more info on K's inadequacies.

 

[Showenuff]

Mike Krzyzewski is gonna be one bad Motha@uc#er if he ever learns how to coach, LOL!

 

[Showenuff]

Armchair quarterback
some d-bag who is certain that he or she can make better decisions than the coaches or players while watching a competitive sport on television.
Watching football with Porter is a drag because he's an insufferable armchair quarterback; he doesn't know jack-shit about sports.
#sports fan #quarterback #football #television #watching
by Clydetheglyde July 18, 2008

 

[SoCal Dukie]

K is the GOAT for a reason, but I highly doubt Duke would beat Gonzaga in a tourney game going 6-deep, UNLESS Duke was en fuego from 3-point land.....

 

[SoCal Dukie]

It was pretty clear the great majority of people, certainly including K and the staff, knew that game was gonna be tough. Anybody looking for a 20 point comfy win was never going to be satisfied.

You need to realize, yes maybe bolden and Giles come in and rebound well and get some put backs even, but obviously the man in charge feels like that risk/reward doesn't favor Duke winning in that particular game. It will be game to game, possession by possession moving forward as far as the guys outside the top 6-7 value. I wish we were winning by 35 and playing everybody and dunking all over for 40 mins (like we thought this season might be) but that's not ever gonna be the case this year. I'm personally about whatever gives us the best chance for a deep run.... I don't care if that's with 3 guys playing.

IN K I TRUST..... even more so when he's throwing his jacket , going nuts in a huddle and coaching the crowd!!! K is gonna will this run, go ahead and doubt the man, ILL SEND YA PICS FROM PHOENIX

Agree with most of this, although I don't see anything wrong with questioning some of the coaching staff moves. I stated it above, and on the Clemson thread, Duke will have a tough time getting to the FF with Amile posted as the 5, a majority of the time. Doesn't mean Giles and Bolden need to play 40 minutes, but I think they would need to get a few 4-minute spurts to help Duke reach maximum potential.

As for Derryck; it sucks but his Uncle really screwed things up. Could Duke his talent? Yep. Could they use the selfish nature of the Uncle? Nope.

 

[hart2chesson]

Agree with most of this, although I don't see anything wrong with questioning some of the coaching staff moves. I stated it above, and on the Clemson thread, Duke will have a tough time getting to the FF with Amile posted as the 5, a majority of the time. Doesn't mean Giles and Bolden need to play 40 minutes, but I think they would need to get a few 4-minute spurts to help Duke reach maximum potential.
.

I know what you're saying and I think its valid in the sense of the set-up of the tourney. Either the Thursday-Saturday or Friday-Sunday and you need those exta minutes you can steal from reserve bigs 2nd half- especially when you're playing away from CIS and dont have the Crazies to help push you over the top. I do think will see Harry and/or Marques more, and I suspect K will find a way to get FJ some more minutes too....

Lol, nothing wrong w/questioning moves: WE KNOW WE HAVE THE BEST COACH EVER, but forums like this thrive on amicable back and forth. I respect everyone here, and feel I have made friends with lots of folks....Agree to disagree...

OFC

 

[louisiaaron]

Some of you couldn't be more short sighted and shallow! This isn't fricken middle school ball where we need to play equal minutes! K plays who he thinks gives the best chance to win. Is it working??? We looked like a damn NIT team playing 10 players, and trust me, you same morons sure let us know that as well!!! We are Fing winning and will continue to win and move up the seed line, that's not enough??

As for the Gonzaga argument, how funny.... we just beat what is probably the best "big" team in the country and we're talking about no chance to beat damn gonzaga!!

Most of us find things to be happy for, and find positives, and it's pretty damn easy as a Duke fan......a few of you dream of ways to be that whiny never happy bi$?@!!!

Questioning K after that game is absolutely beyond idiotic!! He dumped his heart into that game! Early time outs, suit coat off, coaching the crazies ...... K willed this team to fight, nobody realizes how bad a loss there would have hurt! We can thank K for that!!!!!

Well I'm not one of those worshiping types like yourself. Coach K can definitely coach a team the wrong way. He's not incapable of misjudging talent. He might be the greatest but plenty times I've seen him get out-coached. He was out-coached in the Lehigh lost. Mason was literally scoring at will in the paint. Somehow we shot 26 threes though. I blame Coach K for not calling his number more. Anyone that knows basketball will tell you when the outside jumpers aren't falling throw it in the paint. That's how you get the other big in foul trouble or get the defense to collapse. Giles, Bolden and Amile aren't that inept in the post. You don't always have to agree with Coach K for everything. Be your own man. I bet Coach K wouldn't have made that change in the Miami game that Capel did.

A win is a win to me. I say he should actually play the best 8 every game. No reason for anyone but maybe Kennard to play over 30 minutes in a game. There are plenty games we've lost because of player fatigue. If we played Gonzaga tomorrow we wouldn't win. They play 8-9 players consistent minutes plus I be damn if Amile would be able to check that man beast they have in the paint. I don't believe Coach K would go big and that would hurt the team. He needs to play big sometimes because eventually he will have no choice and they need minutes together. That's my opinion. Don't be a follower

 

[louisiaaron]

I get frustrated sometimes when K doesn't play people. I just have to tell myself that this is a man with over 1,000 wins and 5 championships and I am a man who sits on my couch and watches.

Huffy, I have to agree with you that Duke has looked lost a lot of times when they tried to distribute minutes. The State game was a loss put directly on the coach. He went away from what works with this team. To his credit, he saw that some changes needed to be made and tried something different. Unfortunately, they weren't the right changes.

When you're playing teams that has a deep rotation you need to play more people more minutes. the 8-man rotation is fine. But giving 6 people majority of the minutes and the other two 5-minutes apiece is just ridiculous. Now if Giles and Bolden are bums then I understand. They aren't though. We lost the NC State game because we had no rim protector in the game and the offense couldn't get any easy inside baskets. Throw in the post SOMETIMES

 

[Mac9192]

When you're playing teams that has a deep rotation you need to play more people more minutes. the 8-man rotation is fine. But giving 6 people majority of the minutes and the other two 5-minutes apiece is just ridiculous. Now if Giles and Bolden are bums then I understand. They aren't though. We lost the NC State game because we had no rim protector in the game and the offense couldn't get any easy inside baskets. Throw in the post SOMETIMES

We lost the NC State game cause we were a bunch of individuals, not a team. A lot had happened and Duke was very dysfunctional, not the team we are today

 

[Tross282003]

Thornton was too young and immature last year. He was a true pg but wasn't tremendously explosive and couldn't hit from the outside. He wouldn't have played much this year over Kennard, Allen, Jones or Frank Jackson.

 

[Tross282003]

I love to have a rotation of eight players too. Giles and Bolden should get more minutes. Fatigue sets and guys foul out or become in danger of fouling out like Allen, Jefferson and Kennard. Shots don't fall and we lose. Clemson is a bad team and so is NC State.

 

[WI#1Dukie22]

Well I'm not one of those worshiping types like yourself. Coach K can definitely coach a team the wrong way. He's not incapable of misjudging talent. He might be the greatest but plenty times I've seen him get out-coached. He was out-coached in the Lehigh lost. Mason was literally scoring at will in the paint. Somehow we shot 26 threes though. I blame Coach K for not calling his number more. Anyone that knows basketball will tell you when the outside jumpers aren't falling throw it in the paint. That's how you get the other big in foul trouble or get the defense to collapse. Giles, Bolden and Amile aren't that inept in the post. You don't always have to agree with Coach K for everything. Be your own man. I bet Coach K wouldn't have made that change in the Miami game that Capel did.

A win is a win to me. I say he should actually play the best 8 every game. No reason for anyone but maybe Kennard to play over 30 minutes in a game. There are plenty games we've lost because of player fatigue. If we played Gonzaga tomorrow we wouldn't win. They play 8-9 players consistent minutes plus I be damn if Amile would be able to check that man beast they have in the paint. I don't believe Coach K would go big and that would hurt the team. He needs to play big sometimes because eventually he will have no choice and they need minutes together. That's my opinion. Don't be a follower

No way I'm wasting more then 2 secs responding to this garbage! Just dumb all over the place

 

[Mac9192]

No way I'm wasting more then 2 secs responding to this garbage! Just dumb all over the place

Why is what these other guys say disturb you so much? They're only stating their opinions. We are all arm chair coaches. Just because someone says something you don't like doesn't make them dumb. Coach K is one of the greatest ever, no one will dispute that. He has built Duke up to the point where sometimes perfection is wanted. Every team's fans don't always see eye to eye with their coach, if they did that would be dull. I don't like everything he does but I want no other running the program

 

[hart2chesson]

Why is what these other guys say disturb you so much? They're only stating their opinions. We are all arm chair coaches. Just because someone says something you don't like doesn't make them dumb. Coach K is one of the greatest ever, no one will dispute that. He has built Duke up to the point where sometimes perfection is wanted. Every team's fans don't always see eye to eye with their coach, if they did that would be dull. I don't like everything he does but I want no other running the program

Mac's post is what its all about!!

OFC

 

[louisiaaron]

No way I'm wasting more then 2 secs responding to this garbage! Just dumb all over the place

You are that dude I see. Coach K can't do no wrong. Classic yes man.

 

[dukiejay]

Clemson is a bad team and so is NC State.

Clemson isn't bad. They're just not. Many people still have them in the tourney despite their 3-9 conference record. They've now lost six games by five points or less. It's hard to argue you on State, but they weren't as dysfunctional three weeks ago as they are today. Now they've just completely quit on Gott. They're one of the top six or seven in the ACC based on talent, but as we know that doesn't always get it done.

I understand wanting more minutes for more guys. I don't totally disagree, but our top six right now are the six you saw yesterday. Giles probably isn't looking at much more than 12-16 minutes per game going forward. We won't see him 100% ever at Duke....and I preface that by saying he's 100% healthy, but not 100% where he's going to eventually get. It's a shame but is what it is....and it takes time.

Bolden has been involved some in situations. That's what it is....situational. Yesterday K thought it was best to go with the six he did...agree or disagree.

This team is still being pieced together. It's not ideal, but nothing about this season has been ideal. I'd say you'll see more of both Giles and Bolden on Wednesday night, and I'd guess the plan initially was for more of them yesterday too....but coaches coach situations. They're not worried about getting Player X or Y a certain amount of minutes.

 

[WI#1Dukie22]

Yep conceding potential future games because we KNOW WITH CERTAINTY K is incapable of making the proper adjustments is what it's all about....

Others opinions don't bother me at all, been here a long time. Longer then all involved in this discussion most likel, not often I waste time with this stuff. But the way these opinions are being stated and presented is quite laughable that's all!

Everybody here can have all the opinions they want.... my thinking in the real world is some people reach a point in their particular field where they are indeed basically above questioning. CPA's, Doctors, Surgeons etc..... Coach K is there, and has been. If Bob knight or Jim Calhoun for example want to question him I may listen. Not a message board Tom dick or harry... it's not that hard to wrap your head around the fact that EVERY.SINGLE.MOVE K MAKES is 1000000000000000000000000000X more informed and supported then yours. How can you or I have an opinion on something we know ZERO about!! We don't know the first damn thing about this team. As fans, our job is to support. That's it. Last I checked K wasnt looking for line up advice.

 

[WI#1Dukie22]

I should add.... nobody wishes guys like Bolden and Giles were ready and deserving of big time minutes more then me. No doubt we'd be at our very best if this was the case. Guessing K may know this as well..... but you can't force your hand, especially the position we're working out of. As I've stated, let's all just be happy with winning!!! Things are looking up. And Giles and Bolden will still have VERY BIG opportunities ahead

 

[BlueDevilWildcat]

My thinking in the real world is some people reach a point in their particular field where they are indeed basically above questioning. CPA's, Doctors, Surgeons etc..... Coach K is there, and has been. How can you or I have an opinion on something we know ZERO about!! We don't know the first damn thing about this team. As fans, our job is to support. That's it. Last I checked K wasnt looking for line up advice.

Dude, are you for real? You seriously believe CPAs and Doctors are infallible? I hope you're being facetious.

Btw, don't tell me what my job is as a fan. Maybe your CPA told you to keep your mind blank and hands clapping, but I'm gonna go ahead and decide for myself.

Lol.

 

[hart2chesson]

We don't know the first damn thing about this team. As fans, our job is to support. That's it. Last I checked K wasnt looking for line up advice.

IDK, I think most of us here know more about our Blue Devils than the average fan. I read and try to stay up to date here and on other forms of media as much as possible. I dont consider it "a job" to support, its a way of life I am truly blessed with and wouldnt have any other way.

I am sure Coach K isnt "looking for line-up advice," but talking about the team is just part of my support for Duke University....Thats just me...

OFC

 

[WI#1Dukie22]

SOME people in SOME professions reach a point above questioning, just my opinion. But hey if you don't like what your surgeon says go ahead and get some advice on a message board.

 

[Mac9192]

SOME people in SOME professions reach a point above questioning, just my opinion. But hey if you don't like what your surgeon says go ahead and get some advice on a message board.

Nobody is above questioning, nobody. People lose their edge when they feel they're above everyone else. No, K doesn't want our advice, but last I checked even he doesn't walk on water. But like I said I still think he's the best I've ever seen and I've followed Duke for over 30 years

 

[WI#1Dukie22]

Enough of a petty, off track argument.

Agree to disagree

Moving on

GO DUKE

 

[Jnood]

Hope we win some more games!

 

[louisiaaron]

SOME people in SOME professions reach a point above questioning, just my opinion. But hey if you don't like what your surgeon says go ahead and get some advice on a message board.

I wish I had a blind supporter like you haha. Coach K wouldn't even keep you around because you're a yes man. Whatever he says and does is right. How you talk Duke should never lose again since Coach K is always right in how he handles the team. You don't have an unbiased bone in your body huh? Hahaha

 

[Mac9192]

Enough of a petty, off track argument.

Agree to disagree

Moving on

GO DUKE

That happens to be the one area where we do agree

 

[sheyduke]

Some of you couldn't be more short sighted and shallow! This isn't fricken middle school ball where we need to play equal minutes! K plays who he thinks gives the best chance to win. Is it working??? We looked like a damn NIT team playing 10 players, and trust me, you same morons sure let us know that as well!!! We are Fing winning and will continue to win and move up the seed line, that's not enough??

As for the Gonzaga argument, how funny.... we just beat what is probably the best "big" team in the country and we're talking about no chance to beat damn gonzaga!!

Most of us find things to be happy for, and find positives, and it's pretty damn easy as a Duke fan......a few of you dream of ways to be that whiny never happy bi$?@!!!

Questioning K after that game is absolutely beyond idiotic!! He dumped his heart into that game! Early time outs, suit coat off, coaching the crazies ...... K willed this team to fight, nobody realizes how bad a loss there would have hurt! We can thank K for that!!!!!

I'm no moron since you want to call out people who don't understand K at times.

I also believed that we should have started all the upper classman( Grayson, Luke,Matt, Amile) and didn't really care who the fifth player was because those four at the time looked like it gave us the best chance at winning.

It's not just fans questioning K so people can quit that. The arguement is just being made about the playing times and mistake me if I'm wrong Duke has seen enough injuries so would have a hobbling Allen been any different with 36 minutes then say halfing up that time with Jackson? Didn't the two end up with the same amount of points? Except Jackson had less minutes?

My issue with K and this team, in the past Duke has had what, two or three bigs at the most just sitting on the bench? Kinda hard to argue when you got five players at 6'10" or better and none hardly play.

You can also make the arguement had K stuck with the lineup that played at Kansas and just worked the freshman into the rotation Duke would have been fine.

And for them to be the best fans in college basketball, if the coach has to prompt you to get behind the players and get into the game, well that tells you what the crazies think about the players and the game.

So before names begin to get called and people call others out! Make sure you look at both sides not just your own opinion, like most posters put on here, their opinion. Before you get high and mighty

 

[sheyduke]

It was pretty clear the great majority of people, certainly including K and the staff, knew that game was gonna be tough. Anybody looking for a 20 point comfy win was never going to be satisfied.

You need to realize, yes maybe bolden and Giles come in and rebound well and get some put backs even, but obviously the man in charge feels like that risk/reward doesn't favor Duke winning in that particular game. It will be game to game, possession by possession moving forward as far as the guys outside the top 6-7 value. I wish we were winning by 35 and playing everybody and dunking all over for 40 mins (like we thought this season might be) but that's not ever gonna be the case this year. I'm personally about whatever gives us the best chance for a deep run.... I don't care if that's with 3 guys playing.

IN K I TRUST..... even more so when he's throwing his jacket , going nuts in a huddle and coaching the crowd!!! K is gonna will this run, go ahead and doubt the man, ILL SEND YA PICS FROM PHOENIX

It was Clemson. Second to last in the league, Duke just showed at home what they could do to the number one team in the conference so your saying that Clemson is on the same level as UNC so players shouldn't have been expecting atleast a ten point win?

I think every body knows what to expect from Giles and Bolden 2-6 minutes and hey do what you can guys it's just a game you'll get twenty minutes tomorrow in practice.
The arguement fans are making is how do you get better, how do you grow confidence? If your getting recalled to the bench? These players are just going out there and waiting for the next timeout or foul because they know the bench is calling them

 

[sheyduke]

I also don't see Duke beating the zags and that don't matter who Duke has on the court. The Zags play inside out their guards matchup well with Dukes they shoot threes score downlow and play defense and their big man was recruited by K

 

[Jake1985]

Isn't this about PG's?

Come on down Duval!

 

[Mac9192]

Isn't this about PG's?

Come on down Duval!

I agree. A comment gets said, leading to another comment and before long the original post is now not even being talked about. I was guilty as much as anyone. That's what happens when there's so many different views about the team. The one consistent for the most part is everyone posting loves Duke.

 

[dukiejay]

I wish I had a blind supporter like you haha. Coach K wouldn't even keep you around because you're a yes man. Whatever he says and does is right. How you talk Duke should never lose again since Coach K is always right in how he handles the team. You don't have an unbiased bone in your body huh? Hahaha

I didn't gather that at all from his comments....you're kind of creating your own straw man narrative.

Listen, Coach K isn't beyond being questioned, but his point was merely that K might know his team better than us posting here. I don't think that's that outlandish. I would agree we're going to need solid play from Bolden and Giles to reach the goals this team has set out to reach, but I also understand that some games are coached different. While we're jockeying for Players A and B to get more minutes in the second half of a game, the coaching staff is trying to find the right combinations to win said game. Sometimes it might involve certain players getting more minutes, and other times it might mean a six or seven player rotation.

 

[sheyduke]

Sorry for derailing but it seems at times people forget the boards are about options sometimes facts but mostly opinions and lately some seem to think calling people out beyond reason is a way of pushing their opinion over others.

I apologize

 

[LTDukeFan]

Thorton seems like McCaffrey v2.0.....and I _really_ liked Billy when he was at Duke.

Would love to have Thorton's talent here at Duke, but the chemistry of the team seems to just be settling in now, not sure that would be the case if Thorton was here.

 

[Mac9192]

Thorton seems like McCaffrey v2.0.....and I _really_ liked Billy when he was at Duke.

Would love to have Thorton's talent here at Duke, but the chemistry of the team seems to just be settling in now, not sure that would be the case if Thorton was here.

I completely agree. Seemed to this armchair coach that he didn't like competition with Thomas Hill, who was one underrated player at Duke. Seems coincidental with Thornton and other guards on team 25 yrs later

 

[Showenuff]

I hope we don't run into Gonzaga in the tourney. It's already been determined here there is no way we can beat them. Oh well.

 

[Showenuff]

I think I read earlier this season there was no way we'd beat UNC this year as well. How'd that work out?

 

[Mac9192]

I think I read earlier this season there was no way we'd beat UNC this year as well. How'd that work out?

If we had a point guard, we'd won by 20. It should never, ever come up in discussion where Duke fans feel they can't be Gonzaga.

 

[louisiaaron]

I hope we don't run into Gonzaga in the tourney. It's already been determined here there is no way we can beat them. Oh well.

Reading is fundamental. I said with the way the rotation is now we can't beat them. Amile won't be able to hang in there. Bolden and Giles has been getting spot minutes so far which will make it hard for them as well. Gonzaga likes to feed the post so that's foul trouble the bigs will get in. Which is why it would be a good idea to play the freshmen bigs more to get them ready for that. I don't know who said we would lose to UNC. We're guaranteed a win against them strictly off coaching. With that heavy 6-man small ball rotation we won't win the title. I love Duke but I wouldn't put a dime on them if the tourney started now.