K’s Best Team
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Hurley would not be on Williams. It would be T. Hill. I don't think Duhon could stop Bobby who was and still is one of the greatest pure point guards ever to play college basketball. I think some of us either have forgot or don't even remember seeing Hurley, Grant Hill and Laettner play. Those three are in the top five of the greatest Duke players ever. Laettner and Hill could play at least three positions each and Hurley just fed them and made them better. No need to even mention any one and done players with all the respect in the world to them. Two of them who had the potential to break into the top 5 Duke players of all time did not even play a full season due to injuries which of course they couldn't do anything about that. OFC
I don’t think it’s a stretch to think ‘01 would have shot 40% from three. They did it all season. They ended in the tournament sub 35% every game except one and still finished at 38% on the season. I think they’d be ok from three.
And even if they didn’t, they shot so poorly from three during the tourney, and still won every game by double digits. Something only two teams did in the modern era.
1992 Duke simply because of x-factors. They lost two games because of the Hurley injury, otherwise they would have been undefeated. That team was SO clutch, and yes I say they were more clutch even though 2001 had the Miracle Minute and actually all three wins over Mary Land.
I don't bet against a healthy Laettner, Hurley and Hill against anyone. 92 also had more depth across the board. Jmo.
I don't bet against a healthy Laettner, Hurley and Hill against anyone. 92 also had more depth across the board. Jmo.
Watched the 99 teams game against Cinncinati...ugh. Burgess bonehead shot over Fletcher had no chance. Avery was awesome this game had like 30 points. Kenyon Martin's pass to open teammate for a dunk with 1 second left was insane. Team came out kinda flat. Emotionless. Cinncinati led by like 19 at one point. Just dominated Dukes "greatest team ever".
Watch the final four game against Michigan State. Same thing. They come out flat. Start the game kinda slow. Brand played really hard and made some big plays. Then against Uconn same damn thing. The body language. I wonder if not there were possible chemistry issues. UConn players showed a lot more emotion and frankly they just seemed to want it more.
Duke 99 so frustrating what could have and should have been.
Watch the final four game against Michigan State. Same thing. They come out flat. Start the game kinda slow. Brand played really hard and made some big plays. Then against Uconn same damn thing. The body language. I wonder if not there were possible chemistry issues. UConn players showed a lot more emotion and frankly they just seemed to want it more.
Duke 99 so frustrating what could have and should have been.
While a case can be made for both teams, I'd never bet against Laettner in a NCAA Tourney game, so I would take 91-92. That dude just had the X factor in the tourney.
This topic got me to thinking about Laettner’s NCAAT record. He left Duke with a record of 21-2. One loss came in the 1989 Final Four and the other loss came in the 1990 Championship game.
I agree completely, Sky. Those 3 are in my permanent top 5. I feel like that was about as perfect a Duke team as you could get. And all the supporting players were excellent, yet knew they were the supporting players.
We can talk about all our other teams that coulda, woulda, or shoulda got it done...but these guys did...and back to back at that. And they beat the UNLV would be dynasty in the process. Played in (and won) the 'greatest game ever', while carrying a huge target on their back all season long after winning the natty the year before.
Now I believe every bit of what I've written, but I will admit I do have a bias for those years in Duke basketball (much as many on here have for a particular team they love). I was 38 years old when Duke (with Laettner, Hill & Hurley) won our 1st national championship. At this point in my life I truly questioned whether our Blue Devils would ever win a natty. I believe Duke had the record (and I'm sure still do) of having been in the most Final Fours (8), and never winning a championship...until we kicked in the door in 91 in our 9th try, and again in 92 with our 10th effort.
I said then if we never won another I could die a happy man. I never dreamed we would win back to back, let along 3 more. These things are freaking hard to win.
To add to my personal emotion of those days I'm sure some of you remember me telling the story about after Duke lost the championship game to UNLV in 90, I took the video tape I used to tape the game, took it out on my front porch then beat it all to $hit with a hammer, then hurled it across the road about 40 or 50 feet into a wooded area that was all grown up with every type of growth you could think of (oh, and this was on my wife's and my property). I found it years later when we cleared this part of our land off. That was a low point for me.
But the next year we beat those guys, and Roy's boys to win our 1st. Then the next year it looked
like UK was going to win when Woods threw up that prayer that barely slipped over Laettner's outstretched fingertips and banked high off the glass to go in. I cursed terribly so, but I looked at the clock and saw 2.1 seconds remained. Then I started hollering at the top of my lungs 'to just get the f-ing ball to Laettner', over and over (thankfully the wife had removed the kids quite awhile back). Anyway, when Grant made that beautiful pass to Laettner, and he caught it cleanly, made a quick fake to his left, dribbled once to his right, then turned back to his left to shoot the fadeaway jumper (yeah, only Laettner would have the patience and nerve to do all that)! While the ball was in the air I jumped as high as I could and thrust my hand out and shouted...game f-ing over. Never was a doubt in my mind about it going in...NEVER. That was the kind of confidence Laettner inspired in me, and in anyone who ever watched him play...and of course his coach and teammates. You knew he would deliver.
So, you can see the emotions I have tied to those years, and nothing will ever compare to them in my mind.
Man, I love Duke basketball...and I always will until I take that last breath.
OFC
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Seeding 00-01 behind 14-15 was just wrong. The latter were not near as dominant or as good a 'team' or as talented.
'98-99 could have been seeded higher than both 14-15 and 09-10. Winning a title doesn't mean you are better than a team that doesn't win a title. But, even if he was seeding the 5 title teams higher than the 3 at large teams he should have had 00-01 #2.
I do think it would have wound up 01 vs 92. 98-99 was great but they had some flaws exposed in the FF. Their youth hurt them.
But, 01 vs 92 is about right, imo. The two most "will-to-win" players in Duke history are Laettner and Battier (Battier on 99 was not the same as the one on 01). Close behind are Grant Hill and Jay Williams. But then there's Hurley who also is in that list along with Singler and Dawkins (among the players on those in the bracket).
As far as the outcome? I'm a bit biased toward 92 but it's close to a tossup in that final against 01.
'98-99 could have been seeded higher than both 14-15 and 09-10. Winning a title doesn't mean you are better than a team that doesn't win a title. But, even if he was seeding the 5 title teams higher than the 3 at large teams he should have had 00-01 #2.
I do think it would have wound up 01 vs 92. 98-99 was great but they had some flaws exposed in the FF. Their youth hurt them.
But, 01 vs 92 is about right, imo. The two most "will-to-win" players in Duke history are Laettner and Battier (Battier on 99 was not the same as the one on 01). Close behind are Grant Hill and Jay Williams. But then there's Hurley who also is in that list along with Singler and Dawkins (among the players on those in the bracket).
As far as the outcome? I'm a bit biased toward 92 but it's close to a tossup in that final against 01.
I felt the same way. I was starting to think K would be the greatest coach never to win a title and in line with the Bills and Dan Marino. The 90 title game was a total embarrassment.
I moved to Eastern Europe in the fall 1990 and had to drive 7 hours to a friend's house to watch the Semis and Finals in 1991 on Armed Forces Network.
I thought we'd lose for sure but went anyway and it was one of the best feelings I'd ever had watching that semi-final.
I also listened to the 104-103 game in 92 on Armed Forces radio in the Czech Republic - ended about 5:00-5:30 a.m. on a Sunday morning.
My greatest joy watching Duke win a title, however, was the '01 title. My son was born in 1988. He grew up a diehard Duke fan, but never experienced those first two titles and did experience some rough seasons in the mid 90s; and when we lost in 1999 he was utterly destroyed. First team he really rooted for hard and just balled his eyes out. But, the year we won in 01 we had attended a game at Cameron that year and then also went to one of the NCAA games (Duke v UCLA) we won and he had painted his face for the game. It was great to experience winning a title with him fully enjoying it.
That team was incredible. Our only regular season loss was a buzzer beater from Cincy.
Shoot! beat Michigan State and Wisconsin twice.
Yes Sky,we as Duke fans have been blessed to have these incredible teams and players so that we can compare and debate great Duke teams from different era's,The great thing is that Duke will always have great teams and players so hopefully some future teams can get in on these debates as to who is the best all time!
Since the '15 team was referenced, would have also loved to see Brand vs. Okafor. 2004 was also referenced, so either of those guys against the Landlord would have been fun too.
Well, in a single-game scenario, any of those teams could win. There are definitely the "more likely" to win scenarios, but you're talking about a lot of really talented basketball players with a whole lot of pride. Just imagine being able to watch something like that.
Here's what I tend to do....put them all into a best-of-five or best-of-seven. Then what happens? I'm not saying it makes it easier to pick on some levels, but the better team is going to win a series 'most' of the time.
I actually think if it's played out like a series format, it may come down to 1992 vs. 1999. For as good as 2001 was (and they're dear to my heart), they could also be a frustrating bunch. When they turned it on and looked like they wanted to be there? Almost untouchable.
Here's what I tend to do....put them all into a best-of-five or best-of-seven. Then what happens? I'm not saying it makes it easier to pick on some levels, but the better team is going to win a series 'most' of the time.
I actually think if it's played out like a series format, it may come down to 1992 vs. 1999. For as good as 2001 was (and they're dear to my heart), they could also be a frustrating bunch. When they turned it on and looked like they wanted to be there? Almost untouchable.
Great thread indeed. I am a huge Brand fan but he did struggle against size so I think Oakafor could have taken him out of his game. And that team had the secret Grayson weapon, as well as Amile and Matt and MP3 who played their roles perfectly. And Quinn and Tyus and Justice who just was so physical. It would be a heck of a game.
Love em all, but give me 92 any day of the week. They didn’t rely on any one player. That’s why they’re the best ever under K. If Laettner was playing bad, Hurley stepped up. Hurley goes down with a bum foot, Grant was there to fill in.
Thomas Hill was the 2nd leading scorer, and he doesn’t even get talked about.
Davis, Lang and Cherokee were solid role players.
The bullseye has never, I mean never, been bigger on Duke’s chest than 92. Some of you may not want to hear that, but it’s true.
Thomas Hill was the 2nd leading scorer, and he doesn’t even get talked about.
Davis, Lang and Cherokee were solid role players.
The bullseye has never, I mean never, been bigger on Duke’s chest than 92. Some of you may not want to hear that, but it’s true.
I’m not sure anyone “doesn’t want to hear that.” Regardless of the season, it’s still the program we all root for. Some people just have biases towards certain iterations of the same whole.
Justise Winslow v. Nate James. Spectators may actually be killed in that matchup.
Well, there are some that believe the Duke “hype” didn’t start until Brand and our guys started flourishing in the nba.
That’s also why I said best team under K, because there were some good teams before he was here.
The thing about Hurley is he didn't need to score in double figures to be effective. OFC
There were absolutely some great teams before K. 91-92 had to be his best if it isn’t 00-01 or 98-99 though. I won’t speak for anyone else, but I think our older players do a good job of educating on Duke’s past exploits. Case in point, @topps coach is the reason I even researched Bob Verga and his insane reputation as a shooter.
That 1992 team was something else, those guys were my heroes when I was a kid. I was a Duke fan before this team, but these guys made me a diehard basketball fan. There was a reason everyone hated Laettner , which was the same reason that made us love him. The dude played in three national championships for a reason.
I gotta go with my buddies Dirt, Sky and Mac on this one, '91-'92! We've had incredible competitors obviously on all of these teams.However the intangible of WILL TO WIN was the MOST PREVELANT on '92 team!
Laettner is the toughest matchup problem on ANY of these teams. Mac was right- not only was he talented, K let him be the jerk he was because it worked w/that team, and worked AGAINST other teams.Heck ESPN even did a documentary couple years ago, because he had such an impact on the game! Guy's a hoops legend. Sorry some of you younger posters didnt have chance to see Christian or weren't old enough to truly appreciate his talent and all the intangibles he brought to the table.
Dont get me wrong. I LOVE that '01 squad and TREASURE my autographed framed photo of those players which hangs in my den. Shane is one of my 5 favorite Devils ever. However there will never be another Christian Laettner!!! OFC
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Side bar here but even though they did not win the natty that year the 86' team was very talented and put Coach K and Duke on the map as the force they have become. To me this may be the most important team we've had. Not trying to compare this team to the 92',99', or 01' teams just giving credit where credit is due. Let's not forget, Tommy Amaker, NDPOTY, All-Americans Johnny Dawkins and Mark Alarie, solid role players in David Henderson and Jay Bilas. Yes I said Jay Bilas. He did what was ask of him and for some reason I'm having a brain fart here but was Billy King and future NDPOTY on this team. Anyway just a shout out to these defensive minded , free throw shooting bunch of the brotherhood and if one of you say Jay is not part of the brotherhood I will slap you in my imagination.
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If you guys ever remember anything I post remember this. Leattner was an asshole. But he was our asshole and that says it all. OFC
Side bar here but even though they did not win the natty that year the 86' team was very talented and put Coach K and Duke on the map as the force they have become. To me this may be the most important team we've had. Not trying to compare this team to the 92',99', or 01' teams just giving credit where credit is due. Let's not forget, Tommy Amaker, NDPOTY, All-Americans Johnny Dawkins and Mark Alarie, solid role players in David Henderson and Jay Bilas. Yes I said Jay Bilas. He did what was ask of him and for some reason I'm having a brain fart here but was Billy King and future NDPOTY on this team. Anyway just a shout out to these defensive minded , free throw shooting bunch of the brotherhood and if one of you say Jay is not part of the brotherhood I will slap you in my imagination.
I did look it up and the 86' bench was pretty good with some future outstanding players.
Sr. Weldon Williams
Sr. Marty Nessley
Soph. Billy King
Soph. Kevin Strickland
Fresh. Danny Ferry
Fresh. Quinn Snyder
Fresh. John Smith
Record 37-3 losing the natty to UL by 3 points 72-69 . If this team had won the natty would we be saying this was the best Duke team ever? Just asking. OFC
Agree with everything you said Sky but the 78 team will always have a special place in my heart.After so many desolate years that team was like getting cold water after years in the desertSide bar here but even though they did not win the natty that year the 86' team was very talented and put Coach K and Duke on the map as the force they have become. To me this may be the most important team we've had. Not trying to compare this team to the 92',99', or 01' teams just giving credit where credit is due. Let's not forget, Tommy Amaker, NDPOTY, All-Americans Johnny Dawkins and Mark Alarie, solid role players in David Henderson and Jay Bilas. Yes I said Jay Bilas. He did what was ask of him and for some reason I'm having a brain fart here but was Billy King and future NDPOTY on this team. Anyway just a shout out to these defensive minded , free throw shooting bunch of the brotherhood and if one of you say Jay is not part of the brotherhood I will slap you in my imagination.
Side bar here but even though they did not win the natty that year the 86' team was very talented and put Coach K and Duke on the map as the force they have become. To me this may be the most important team we've had. Not trying to compare this team to the 92',99', or 01' teams just giving credit where credit is due. Let's not forget, Tommy Amaker, NDPOTY, All-Americans Johnny Dawkins and Mark Alarie, solid role players in David Henderson and Jay Bilas. Yes I said Jay Bilas. He did what was ask of him and for some reason I'm having a brain fart here but was Billy King and future NDPOTY on this team. Anyway just a shout out to these defensive minded , free throw shooting bunch of the brotherhood and if one of you say Jay is not part of the brotherhood I will slap you in my imagination.
Everyone talks about their disappointment with certain Duke teams ('99, etc.), but this one was the one that hurt me so much...and still does. There was no doubt that they were the best team in college basketball that year. That was the most mad I ever was over a game...until the UNLV slaughter.
OFC
I still hate Jack Givens! Never before, and never again did he have a game like that. I remember he was partially behind the backboard on one of his shots he took and the damn ball somehow caught the edge of the backboard and spun it up and it went in. After that, I knew it wasn't meant to be. But I was so glad that at the end, Duke fought back so hard (when it looked like it was over) that Joe Hall had to put his starters back in.
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Jmo but stopping Thomas Hill would prove to be a real problem for the01 team.6-4 and incredible athlete who scored over 1700 points as the fourth option on those teams.Still remember him blocking a shot against UCLA from a big man shooting from point blank distance
86-94 were incredible times to be a Duke fan,we will probably never see another run like that,second only to the Wooden UCLA teams of the 60's and early 70's.
Interesting point about T.Hill....When my buddy Mac told me he was the 2ND LEADING SCORER behind Christian on that '92 team I was floored. I will say Grant and Bobby may have been the best 3rd and 4th best scorers on any Duke team in history!Thats what makes that '92 team so special- so much talent, created matchup problems and OVERALL greatest desire to win among all those teams.
I still remember a photograph on the cover of the old ''91-92 ACC HANDBOOK. Laettner and Hurley were both bleeding I think, but the accompanying caption was "Bloodied But Unbowed."
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and if one of you say Jay is not part of the brotherhood I will slap you in my imagination.
Ow Sky, that hurt! You caught me good!!!
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That team was special. That is probably the only year that I expected Duke to win a natty,,and by goodness they did. Not easily of course, but they also went wire to wire number 1 in the country that year. The last team to ever do that.
Yeah, they were special. Germanton! And maybe they weren't as dominating as '99, or '01-02, but they had greatness written all over them. Greatness is when you're able to get the job done, no matter what, and the fact they won many close games was a sign of their greatness. It's easy to make shots when you're up 30 points, but when the game is on the line, and pucker strings are stretched....that's when the great ones get it done, and this team had greatness in spades.
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