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Hard hitting

"It was a small miracle we made the tourney with a team so dysfunctional"... What? Are we talking about the 2017 team who was preseason #1 (IIRC)?
Yes, the team that was supposed to utterly annihilate anyone and everyone. Like I said, Tatum and Kennard were the two most selfish guys I've ever seen put on a Duke jersey. They couldn't be bothered to play any defense, and never met a stupid jumper they didn't like.
 
The difference between 15 and 18, Duke progressed through the season this team however didnt they kept the same identity.

I also believe there was a lot of differing on this team then in years past.

Our biggest weakness in ‘15 (and ‘18) was defense. Switching to a 2-3 zone was the correction. This year we couldn’t shoot. Switching defenses is a snap of the finger coaching tweak. Shooting is a slow progression. I do think that Golden State’s offense was bad for this team, so I wish an offensive style tweak had been made.

Couple months ago I mentioned that pick and roll would help us substantially. I said that we shoot too many 3’s and that our half-court offense looked sickly and we get bailed out because we O-rebound so well. I said that we’d operate better with the ball in Tre’s hands, running a traditional offense. Even if not that, we need something different. — I had a flurry of people suggest I was an idiot for saying it. Now everyone is fuming that we stuck to this offense.

@dukehokie Was one of the few that respectfully disagreed. Lol - we had a couple lengthy discussions about it. In his and K’s defense, we only lost 1 game (healthy) so it’s tough to suggest an offensive change when it’s producing wins.
 
@sheyduke (In reference to my last reply)
I posted this in mid-February. Not patting myself on the back saying that P&R was the correct offense, but I think running something something more traditional, or different, would have helped a ton. I agree with you there. At that point in time though, it’s hard to argue with wins.
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Our biggest weakness in ‘15 (and ‘18) was defense. Switching to a 2-3 zone was the correction. This year we couldn’t shoot. Switching defenses is a snap of the finger coaching tweak. Shooting is a slow progression. I do think that Golden State’s offense was bad for this team, so I wish an offensive style tweak had been made.

Couple months ago I mentioned that pick and roll would help us substantially. I said that we shoot too many 3’s and that our half-court offense looked sickly and we get bailed out because we O-rebound so well. I said that we’d operate better with the ball in Tre’s hands, running a traditional offense. Even if not that, we need something different. — I had a flurry of people suggest I was an idiot for saying it. Now everyone is fuming that we stuck to this offense.

@dukehokie Was one of the few that respectfully disagreed. Lol - we had a couple lengthy discussions about it. In his and K’s defense, we only lost 1 game (healthy) so it’s tough to suggest an offensive change when it’s producing wins.

I was wrong about sticking to the 5 out. I’m fully on board there. Pick and roll didn’t work well with this team in the tournament because of the lack of options off the pick. The roll was jumped by 2 and 3 defenders at times. A motion offense would’ve suited this team, but K scrapped any chance of that in August.

Hopefully there’s a little more adaptation next season there, but in his defense, that’s hard to do with a top 8 with less collective years of experience than Matt Christensen.
 
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I was wrong about sticking to the 5 out. I’m fully on board there. Pick and roll didn’t work well with this team in the tournament because of the lack of options off the pick. The roll was jumped by 2 and 3 defenders at times. A motion offense would’ve suited this team, but K scrapped any chance of that in August.

Hopefully there’s a little more adaptation next season there, but in his defense, that’s hard to do with a top 8 with less collective years of experience than Matt Christensen.

It’s really hard to argue with wins, that’s why changing things seemed senseless. We were just wiping people out because we were grabbing 14-15 (sometimes more) offensive rebounds per game. That’s great and all, but it’s not the best success recipe.

Sticking to the motion offense would have been fine, just a different variation of it. The P&R that we did see this year was with RJ and Zion as the ball-handlers. Tre got a few picks but mostly from Javin. I think it would have been better with Zion or even RJ. Who knows what would have worked best, it just unfortunately wasn’t what we were doing.
 
I'm completely in agreement with your statement.

People who are embarrassed by the performance of the kids on this year's team need to check their priorities in life.

I'm disappointed we didn't win a title and I feel bad for the guys who were really part of a special team, but I'm in no way personally embarrassed by their performance against Michigan State or by the outcome and I'm not embarrassed for them. It's sports. Losses happen.
Pretty devastating summary of our failure with Zion this year. Just befuddling what the coaching staff was thinking/doing.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-ba...-march-madness-michigan-state-ncaa-tournament

I agree K will never have a player like Zion again, and failing to reach the FF was a MONUMENTAL diappointment....I am just not ready to shove K aside and put all the blame on him. It was a one point loss, and K I am sure knows this was in all likelihood his best chance to win #6 before he retires....However I think his legacy will remain intact w/5 nattys even if he fails to win another.

OFC
 
I think most people here forget that half of the coaching gig is...…..recruiting.

You want a great coach who can't recruit? Go be a Florida Gator fan. Duke AD's son, Mike White, is a heck of a ball coach. Respect the guy tremendously. Has done a great job with the talent he has, just can't seem to land many (any) blue chippers. They've made it out of the first weekend once in the last 5 years (since he took over), including missing the tournament altogether twice.
 
I agree K will never have a player like Zion again, and failing to reach the FF was a MONUMENTAL diappointment....I am just not ready to shove K aside and put all the blame on him. It was a one point loss, and K I am sure knows this was in all likelihood his best chance to win #6 before he retires....However I think his legacy will remain intact w/5 nattys even if he fails to win another.

OFC

It’s a huge disappointment. On top of that the media likes to stir drama and fans are emotional looking to point a finger. Could K have selected a better offense? Yes. The problem is that you don’t change things that are creating wins. Duke only had 1 loss with a healthy roster and it was against a lucky shooting shooting performance playing 3 days in a row. I’m sure he saw the issues with the offense. Stalled leading to ISO-heavy, 3PT-heavy with poor shooting. These are glaring issues and he’s not blind.

But the kids were winning and that puts him in a tough position. Do you work on the same offense and hope shooting gets hotter as a safety net. Or do you dump it in the trash mid-season and reboot? Everyone right now is going to say the second option because we lost, but that wasn’t the consensus two months ago.
 
It’s a huge disappointment. On top of that the media likes to stir drama and fans are emotional looking to point a finger. Could K have selected a better offense? Yes. The problem is that you don’t change things that are creating wins. Duke only had 1 loss with a healthy roster and it was against a lucky shooting shooting performance playing 3 days in a row. I’m sure he saw the issues with the offense. Stalled leading to ISO-heavy, 3PT-heavy with poor shooting. These are glaring issues and he’s not blind.

But the kids were winning and that puts him in a tough position. Do you work on the same offense and hope shooting gets hotter as a safety net. Or do you dump it in the trash mid-season and reboot? Everyone right now is going to say the second option because we lost, but that wasn’t the consensus two months ago.
I disagree with this. YOU ABSOLUTELY CHANGE THINGS THROUGH WINNING!! It's what the best coaches do. If you have to wait for a loss or multiple losses to make changes even if the team needs them, that's on the coach. I feel K has gotten soft with the one and dones, and he doesn't get on them. Cam at times this year played soooooooo bad, and not once did I see K get on him. RJ at times played a little selfish, took horrendous shots, and loafed on D especially getting back. Any in game coaching or motivation from K, nope.

Early in the ACC season it was very clear this duke team is not going to be good at shooting. Yet we kept the same game plan all year long and it just didn't work. Did we win games, yes. Why did we win games, because of Zion being unfrichanbelievable. We don't win a single ACC tourney game without Zion. There's ways to beat a packed in defense when you aren't a good shooting team. Guess what one of them is NOT. Shooting more 3's.
 
I disagree with this. YOU ABSOLUTELY CHANGE THINGS THROUGH WINNING!! It's what the best coaches do. If you have to wait for a loss or multiple losses to make changes even if the team needs them, that's on the coach.

Using the “poorly coached offense” we handily beat Auburn. Slapped TxTech by 10 without Zion the final 4 minutes. Also beat beat Virginia twice. Being 4-0 against F4 teams going into the game vs MSU is very convincing to not make change.

I think we could have ran different offense better, but I think it would have been one heck of a ballsy decision to throw away what equated to winning to work on something that (key word) might be better. It’s not like you can switch the offense without consequence. It’s done at the expense of chemistry and it’s common for players to have a hard time adapting to fulfill a different role.

I feel K has gotten soft with the one and dones, and he doesn't get on them. Cam at times this year played soooooooo bad, and not once did I see K get on him.

Lol... Reddish for the most part took good shots, he just unfortunately was inconsistent. Was K supposed to rip him out of the game and break his hand for missing? Worth noting that it’s been mentioned multiple times how well Cam shoots in practice. I wish we got to see it more in games but I’m not sure how K gets faulted for that.

RJ at times played a little selfish, took horrendous shots, and loafed on D especially getting back. Any in game coaching or motivation from K, nope.

Were you on the bench with them? What about the timeout huddle? You have no clue what was said, now you’re just assuming things.

Yep, RJ’s shot selection could have been better. You have to realize aside from his talent, he’s still a freshman. It’s not uncommon to see poor decision making with lack of experience. We also don’t have any players capable of creating anything from the perimeter reliably besides RJ. Zion might get a quick first step and dash in for a dunk, but it’s kind of rare. He’s highly prone to turnovers due to poor ball security (typical for his physicality) or committing a charging foul. RJ doesn’t finish as well at the rim as Z but he has better ball-handling with options to pull up, shoot a floater or attack basket. When our offense stalls, we are heavily dependent on this.

Early in the ACC season it was very clear this duke team is not going to be good at shooting. Yet we kept the same game plan all year long and it just didn't work.

We didn’t lose a single ACC game while completely healthy, something was working.

Can’t just quit shooting. Defenses pack the paint because they don’t respect the perimeter shooting. If we make them respect it, stuff opens up.

Did we win games, yes. Why did we win games, because of Zion being unfrichanbelievable. We don't win a single ACC tourney game without Zion.

We won a few games w/o him. You probably just didn’t watch because you think he’s the only player on the team.

There's ways to beat a packed in defense when you aren't a good shooting team. Guess what one of them is NOT. Shooting more 3's.

There’s 3 ways to beat pack-line defense (that my inferior knowledge is aware of)
#1 - Transition offense
#2 - Make 3’s
#3 - Drive / post-up into the double/triple team and hope you make it

Been watching basketball a long time, but I’m not a coach. You seem to know the secret sauce to beating it so I’d really love to hear it.
 
I was wrong about sticking to the 5 out. I’m fully on board there. Pick and roll didn’t work well with this team in the tournament because of the lack of options off the pick. The roll was jumped by 2 and 3 defenders at times. A motion offense would’ve suited this team, but K scrapped any chance of that in August.

Hopefully there’s a little more adaptation next season there, but in his defense, that’s hard to do with a top 8 with less collective years of experience than Matt Christensen.

We ran no Zion pick and rolls. Let him be the roll man with Tre, RJ or Cam handling the ball. Coach empowered RJ too much. I don't think Coach K realized how good and dominant Zion really was. We should've ran more plays for Zion to get on the block or elbow. We tried running an offense that's made to shoot with a team that didn't shoot well. This is why I say Coach K is more focused on getting players to the league and being successful more than winning titles at this point. There's no way he really evaluated these players and thought running a Golden State offense was the best way to attack defenses
 
Started reading and came across the following statement a couple of sentences in:

“Coach K hasn’t made a Final Four since winning it all in 2015”

I stopped there. The article lost all merit and I can’t read any further with any sense of level-headedness.

A roll out from Allen last year and a potential game tying free throw with solid momentum into a potential OT prevented final fours last year and this year, respectively. Of course I’d prefer blowouts, but what more can you ask as a fan.

to be fair it goes the other way as well. you can't narrow it down to just RJ missing a free throw when VT airballing 2 game winning 3's in the last 2 seconds and Dawkins missing a tip in he should make in his sleep allowed Duke to even get to the Elite 8. Duke didnt necessarily have an easy game against Cuse in the Sweet 16 last year either
 
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to be fair it goes the other way as well. you can't narrow it down to just RJ missing a free throw when VT airballing 2 game winning 3's in the last 2 seconds and Dawkins missing a tip in he should make in his sleep allowed Duke to even get to the Elite 8. Duke didnt necessarily have an easy game against Cuse in the Sweet 16 last year either

Can’t you say the same story lines for everyone?

VT survived an over time game
Auburn survived an over time game
TxTech only had a 2 point lead under 30 secs
MSU won by 1 point

Safe to say that ONE play dramatically changes the final four. This is true almost every year.
 
Everyone knows K is all about the word trust. He plays who he plays cause he trusts them. He feels a possibly tired Jones was better than a fresh Goldwire, and on down the line.
The same goes for our offense. He only trusted 2 guys to score, RJ and Zion.
He was going to win or lose with the offense going through those 2. Any scoring from others was going to come from those 2 passing to one of the other 3.

I think it’s that simple. Had we been a more balanced scoring team, we would probably have won by a comfortable margin. But we weren’t, and that’s why we are done.
 
Using the “poorly coached offense” we handily beat Auburn. Slapped TxTech by 10 without Zion the final 4 minutes. Also beat beat Virginia twice. Being 4-0 against F4 teams going into the game vs MSU is very convincing to not make change.

I think we could have ran different offense better, but I think it would have been one heck of a ballsy decision to throw away what equated to winning to work on something that (key word) might be better. It’s not like you can switch the offense without consequence. It’s done at the expense of chemistry and it’s common for players to have a hard time adapting to fulfill a different role.



Lol... Reddish for the most part took good shots, he just unfortunately was inconsistent. Was K supposed to rip him out of the game and break his hand for missing? Worth noting that it’s been mentioned multiple times how well Cam shoots in practice. I wish we got to see it more in games but I’m not sure how K gets faulted for that.



Were you on the bench with them? What about the timeout huddle? You have no clue what was said, now you’re just assuming things.

Yep, RJ’s shot selection could have been better. You have to realize aside from his talent, he’s still a freshman. It’s not uncommon to see poor decision making with lack of experience. We also don’t have any players capable of creating anything from the perimeter reliably besides RJ. Zion might get a quick first step and dash in for a dunk, but it’s kind of rare. He’s highly prone to turnovers due to poor ball security (typical for his physicality) or committing a charging foul. RJ doesn’t finish as well at the rim as Z but he has better ball-handling with options to pull up, shoot a floater or attack basket. When our offense stalls, we are heavily dependent on this.



We didn’t lose a single ACC game while completely healthy, something was working.

Can’t just quit shooting. Defenses pack the paint because they don’t respect the perimeter shooting. If we make them respect it, stuff opens up.



We won a few games w/o him. You probably just didn’t watch because you think he’s the only player on the team.



There’s 3 ways to beat pack-line defense (that my inferior knowledge is aware of)
#1 - Transition offense
#2 - Make 3’s
#3 - Drive / post-up into the double/triple team and hope you make it

Been watching basketball a long time, but I’m not a coach. You seem to know the secret sauce to beating it so I’d really love to hear it.
I'm not as good as you at this multiple quote thing so i'll just respond in order.


Auburn and Texas Tech were somewhat close games, texas tech had the lead at half after we jumped on them to start the game. Heck tech had the lead with 6 minutes to go. We didn't whip either team at all. I was happy with the win both times but slightly disappointed with how we kept letting tech hang around and couldn't put auburn away with many opportunities. I guess they both ended up being pretty good teams though.

yes we beat virginia twice when neither team could hit a shot at duke, the other game when duke shot over 60% from 3. It happened, so it could happen again, but if you're a betting man there wouldn't be good odds of either happening. I prefer not to rely on luck in sports, instead make my own luck.

I would say we had absolutely no chemistry in our half court offense, so a switch could only have helped. We never made the defense move.

If you feel reddish driving with his head down and either getting called for a charge or throwing up a crazy wild shot with no control is good basketball, not sure what to tell you. Reddish shot under 40% from 2. let me repeat, under 40% from 2. That's like some Greg Paulus crap. The fact that cam ran into charges, again, and again, and again, etc etc etc. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is called what? Where was the coaching, where was K or someone getting on him or helping him. Every time they subbed him out it was just 15 high fives. Only person I ever saw K get on was AOC and once or twice Javin.

I wasn't on the bench but every time Cam, Zion, or Reddish subbed out they showed them. See above on duke's amazing high fives. I got to see duke play in person 4 times this year. 2 games Cam played terrible, and sitting not far from the bench, there was nothing. No coaching or motivation. Just play through it.

I agree mostly on RJ, although I think coaching could have helped his shot selection offensively some. You don't want to take away instincts but man, he took way too many tough shots when we didn't even try to move the ball or get it to zion. A little fire/motivation would have helped his defense. I thought RJ ended the season playing some pretty lazy/poor D at times, especially getting back. Might have been his crazy minutes, or it might have been saving his energy for offense. I don't know, but K allowed it.

Out of order but yes I saw we beat two teams without Zion. 1 game RJ went off and I expect he would have done that a few times allowing duke to win some games in the ACC. Duke also lost 3 games without Zion, yes against good competition. I expect duke wouldn't have beat many good opponents without Zion. We also played Wake forest at home, one of the worst Power 5 teams at home without Zion. We should have lost. With zion we win at wake by 22.

I'm a firm believer in Zion was actually under appreciated and that is crazy to think. Don't even talk about his crazy good stats, his presence alone on O and D made the other teams always thinking where's Zion. His +/- this year was crazy good always, opposite of Reddish. I firmly believe RJ's poor pass to zion up 9 where he got his second foul was the play of the game. He leaves, msu see's an opportunity and capitalizes. Duke doesn't respond and when the bring zion back, zion plays to not pick up a 3rd foul we go from, being up 11 most likely to 5 minutes later down 4. Grinds my gears the laziness of that pass and a few others to zion vs msu.

How to beat a pack line D.

You hit the nail on the head. Don't let it get set up. Trying to shoot your way out of it is trying to be lucky because you are what you are. You also need to move the ball around to get the defense moving so when you do take a shot, you are moving, the D is moving, and boxing out is more difficult for the D. Duke had the opportunity to beat the defense because of their length and athleticism. You saw Zion do it. You didn't see Cam, RJ (he did a little typically on his own miss), or Bolden get any offensive rebounds because they didn't move enough on offense and or didn't put the effort into getting an offensive rebound. But duke walked the ball down the court all tournament. Head scratcher.
 
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We ran no Zion pick and rolls. Let him be the roll man with Tre, RJ or Cam handling the ball. Coach empowered RJ too much. I don't think Coach K realized how good and dominant Zion really was. We should've ran more plays for Zion to get on the block or elbow. We tried running an offense that's made to shoot with a team that didn't shoot well. This is why I say Coach K is more focused on getting players to the league and being successful more than winning titles at this point. There's no way he really evaluated these players and thought running a Golden State offense was the best way to attack defenses

That’s not true at all. Zion and RJ (Tre) did run PnR by season’s end. But by that point, other teams essentially left any other options of the pick alone and doubled and tripled the roll and driver. It just wasn’t effective when they ran it.
 
Can’t you say the same story lines for everyone?

VT survived an over time game
Auburn survived an over time game
TxTech only had a 2 point lead under 30 secs
MSU won by 1 point

Safe to say that ONE play dramatically changes the final four. This is true almost every year.

Which is yet another reason the “experience vs. OAD” argument is annoying. Veteran teams drop every year to a one-play scenario. This team had a veteran style poise and energy. But at some point, their strength wasn’t a part of the game plan. Be it fatigue, insecurity, whatever, what made this team great wasn’t present pre-UNC 1.
 
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Which is yet another reason the “experience vs. OAD” argument is annoying. Veteran teams drop every year to a one-play scenario. This team had a veteran style poise and energy. But at some point, their strength wasn’t a part of the game plan. Be it fatigue, insecurity, whatever, what made this team great wasn’t present pre-UNC 1.
Agree, but I think this team with Rj and Zion and the defensive abilities of other players could have been good enough to not have a game go to the last minute ion the tournament. Not easy, no question. I just have no clue why we walked the ball up and allowed for lower scoring games. We pushed it more in the ACC with 3 games in a row.
 
to be fair it goes the other way as well. you can't narrow it down to just RJ missing a free throw when VT airballing 2 game winning 3's in the last 2 seconds and Dawkins missing a tip in he should make in his sleep allowed Duke to even get to the Elite 8. Duke didnt necessarily have an easy game against Cuse in the Sweet 16 last year either

Good point and you’re right. Guess my argument is that the best team doesn’t always win a game comprised with two 20 min halves. Teams get hot, teams get cold. It is not a best of 7 or anything like that - one game is all it takes. Coach K’s job is to put the team in the best position to win. The team had over 30 wins and only one loss fully healthy (who knows if Cam and Ques were at 100% but White wasn’t for MSU). My guess is the article is probably slanting towards all the crap out there right now about how the one and done doesn’t work. My take is K should continue to get the absolute best talent possible and continue to put the team in the best position to win. It’s not a one and done thing with me - it’s just get the best you can. I can’t ask for more as a fan.
 
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So asking for a friend, why does Ipsy get away with calling people idiots, morons, and tards because he "doesn't seem like the sharpest dude"? He calls out several posters, myself included, and we're the bad guys because we respond? It comes across as "bullying" but he can say whatever he wants? That's weird to me man. Let me be clear, I've got no problem going back and forth, in fact, I enjoy our banter. What I take an issue with is him getting a pass because he "doesn't seem like the sharpest dude" but we're vilified for responding. All right guys. You all are selling him a little short.
 
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Hate to interrupt this bitch fest, but pretty good article on issues with UK and Duke this year.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...one-and-done-not-producing-titles/3334156002/

I'm curious when the staff realized that we were going to be so poor at shooting. It seems like a big miss, but was it reasonable to expect White, AOC and Cam to be good shooters and by the time we realized that wasn't the case, it was too late?

Weird that 2 years in a row we haven't had good shooters, given great 3P and FT shooting has been a hallmark of the program for so many years.

Also don't understand how guys like Zion and RJ and Tre can shoot free throws worse than almost all the guys on my high school team.
 
But at some point, their strength wasn’t a part of the game plan. Be it fatigue, insecurity, whatever, what made this team great wasn’t present pre-UNC 1.
I agree. Whatever IT was they didn't have it after UNC 1. I wanted to believe it would work out with Zion coming back. Reminded me of 2017 when Duke won 4 games to win ACC tournament. I wanted to believe they had turned a corner and gained momentum. I think this team suffered from the hype and expectations after the Kentucky game. They weren't THAT good. They became a two man show and that does not get you to a Final Four. They ended being like the '19 Tennessee team and the 06 Duke with JJ & Shelden.
 
I agree. Whatever IT was they didn't have it after UNC 1. I wanted to believe it would work out with Zion coming back. Reminded me of 2017 when Duke won 4 games to win ACC tournament. I wanted to believe they had turned a corner and gained momentum. I think this team suffered from the hype and expectations after the Kentucky game. They weren't THAT good. They became a two man show and that does not get you to a Final Four. They ended being like the '19 Tennessee team and the 06 Duke with JJ & Shelden.

We can all agree having a 2nd round matchup in SC's backyard screwed us
 
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Hate to interrupt this bitch fest, but pretty good article on issues with UK and Duke this year.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...one-and-done-not-producing-titles/3334156002/

I'm curious when the staff realized that we were going to be so poor at shooting. It seems like a big miss, but was it reasonable to expect White, AOC and Cam to be good shooters and by the time we realized that wasn't the case, it was too late?

Weird that 2 years in a row we haven't had good shooters, given great 3P and FT shooting has been a hallmark of the program for so many years.

Also don't understand how guys like Zion and RJ and Tre can shoot free throws worse than almost all the guys on my high school team.
The irony is the classic Duke teams would probably be very dynamic in today’s college game.

UNC has gotten away from inside/out ball.

Both coaches have struggled the last 2 years going away from what they do well.
 
I'm not as good as you at this multiple quote thing so i'll just respond in order.


Auburn and Texas Tech were somewhat close games, texas tech had the lead at half after we jumped on them to start the game. Heck tech had the lead with 6 minutes to go. We didn't whip either team at all. I was happy with the win both times but slightly disappointed with how we kept letting tech hang around and couldn't put auburn away with many opportunities. I guess they both ended up being pretty good teams though.

yes we beat virginia twice when neither team could hit a shot at duke, the other game when duke shot over 60% from 3. It happened, so it could happen again, but if you're a betting man there wouldn't be good odds of either happening. I prefer not to rely on luck in sports, instead make my own luck.

I would say we had absolutely no chemistry in our half court offense, so a switch could only have helped. We never made the defense move.

If you feel reddish driving with his head down and either getting called for a charge or throwing up a crazy wild shot with no control is good basketball, not sure what to tell you. Reddish shot under 40% from 2. let me repeat, under 40% from 2. That's like some Greg Paulus crap. The fact that cam ran into charges, again, and again, and again, etc etc etc. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is called what? Where was the coaching, where was K or someone getting on him or helping him. Every time they subbed him out it was just 15 high fives. Only person I ever saw K get on was AOC and once or twice Javin.

I wasn't on the bench but every time Cam, Zion, or Reddish subbed out they showed them. See above on duke's amazing high fives. I got to see duke play in person 4 times this year. 2 games Cam played terrible, and sitting not far from the bench, there was nothing. No coaching or motivation. Just play through it.

I agree mostly on RJ, although I think coaching could have helped his shot selection offensively some. You don't want to take away instincts but man, he took way too many tough shots when we didn't even try to move the ball or get it to zion. A little fire/motivation would have helped his defense. I thought RJ ended the season playing some pretty lazy/poor D at times, especially getting back. Might have been his crazy minutes, or it might have been saving his energy for offense. I don't know, but K allowed it.

Out of order but yes I saw we beat two teams without Zion. 1 game RJ went off and I expect he would have done that a few times allowing duke to win some games in the ACC. Duke also lost 3 games without Zion, yes against good competition. I expect duke wouldn't have beat many good opponents without Zion. We also played Wake forest at home, one of the worst Power 5 teams at home without Zion. We should have lost. With zion we win at wake by 22.

I'm a firm believer in Zion was actually under appreciated and that is crazy to think. Don't even talk about his crazy good stats, his presence alone on O and D made the other teams always thinking where's Zion. His +/- this year was crazy good always, opposite of Reddish. I firmly believe RJ's poor pass to zion up 9 where he got his second foul was the play of the game. He leaves, msu see's an opportunity and capitalizes. Duke doesn't respond and when the bring zion back, zion plays to not pick up a 3rd foul we go from, being up 11 most likely to 5 minutes later down 4. Grinds my gears the laziness of that pass and a few others to zion vs msu.

How to beat a pack line D.

You hit the nail on the head. Don't let it get set up. Trying to shoot your way out of it is trying to be lucky because you are what you are. You also need to move the ball around to get the defense moving so when you do take a shot, you are moving, the D is moving, and boxing out is more difficult for the D. Duke had the opportunity to beat the defense because of their length and athleticism. You saw Zion do it. You didn't see Cam, RJ (he did a little typically on his own miss), or Bolden get any offensive rebounds because they didn't move enough on offense and or didn't put the effort into getting an offensive rebound. But duke walked the ball down the court all tournament. Head scratcher.

TxTech game was close, 4 charges in final 4 minutes was terrible though. We had a good lead on Auburn 10-15pts throughout second half. Virginia shot horrible but we shot 12% from outside which is also unlike us. We were missing Tre 1st game. Fluke, luck, whatever. We got the dub. Was the Louisville comeback lucky or a fantastic coaching move?

I don’t see a chemistry problem, I see a “we suck at shooting” problem. I reckon we will just have to disagree... Reddish had 2 games where he drove into the lane like a maniac and picked up some charge whistles. Not good basketball but I’m not going to let 4 or 5 errant possessions write his story. If you want to follow that narrative, Zion had two or three times the amount of charging calls than anyone else. Reddish finessed a lot of athletic layups. He didn’t shoot well all year, I agree. Had an odd knack for shooting really deep 2pt shots. He was also a prolific defender and stepped up in big moments. Not sure why he seemingly only stepped up then, but he did.

We played really bad against Wake, I’d be a fool to argue that. The whole team was lazy in transition defense against MSU, it wasn’t specific to RJ.

Javin (11) and Zion (14) had all the rebounds against MSU. I believe RJ/Cam each had around 5/6. Alex O’Connell has more boards than RJ against VT. Zion had 2 more boards than RJ and Javin both against UCF. Not sure about the the 16 seed game. — Zion is a freak of nature athlete who mostly plays in the paint. You don’t need to credit him for out-rebounding our wing players.

Lol you literally blamed RJ’s bad pass on Zion’s 2nd foul... dude just stop.

I love Zion. He is the best player on the team, everyone knows that. You’re pumping him off right now and spitting in every other player’s face. We know he’s the best, you don’t have to be extreme about it. RJ making a bad pass doesn’t make him responsible for Zion’s choice to run up and hack the guy. It was a bad decision.
 
Using any connotation of the word "failure" to describe this season, this team, or Coach K is laughable hyperbole. The beautiful, heartless reality of March Madness is that the best team simply doesn't always win. Does that make them failures? Uh, no.

K always recruits the best players. He's a players coach and that's what players love about him. They get to play their game. Sometimes that means we're post heavy, or sometimes we're perimeter heavy. We've won titles both ways, and everywhere in between. Even last year, we had amazing post players, we had two great 3-point shooters in Allen and Trent, but we were awful on defense. Sometimes you just can't have it all. Even when you do have it all, like the 99 Duke team, you still can lose.

1 - "Coach K hasn’t made a Final Four since winning it all in 2015, despite having 11 first-round picks in the NBA draft, if you count this year’s group, in that span."
-That's a pretty weak argument when you dig into it. First of all, one Final Four in 5 whole years? How does Coach K even have a job?! Of the 11 picks (he's assuming Tre goes first round), 7 of them lost single-possession games in the Elite 8 to veteran teams, 3 lost to a Final Four team (South Carolina) while playing in South Carolina. The other was Brandon Ingram in a rebuilding year following the 2015 National Title Season and losing our most of our starting lineup.

2 - "Michigan State, like every other team the Blue Devils faced over the past two weeks, packed the paint with defenders..."
-That's not rocket surgery. Everyone knew how to beat us, and we were still a bucket or a free throw or one fewer turnover or one foul called when Zion was mugged on a post entry pass away from winning. This was the team we had, and it was a damn good one.

3 - "It’s almost impossible to develop a supporting cast when so much of the team turns over on an annual basis. Duval and Trent would probably have been better off returning to school..."
-There's an awful lot to unpack in this statement because it requires a few assumptions to have a shred of validity. The first incorrect assumption is that Trevon and Gary would have stayed but they were recruited over (this is clearly the opinion of the author because he wrote an article dedicated solely to this premise last April). Trevon was one-and-done regardless of the incoming class, and Gary was drafted and is making 1.3 million at 20 years old. Guys coming in have a plan and know roughly their draft stock. Frank Jackson had the exact same plan and isn't any different than Duval or Trent. They are professionals and deserve to work on their craft in a professional environment, not the pseudo-amateurism that the NCAA employees.

The other implied assumption is that, because we ended up being so paint heavy, we should have just developed our perimeter shooters better and, voila, guaranteed title. The only options we had in this regard are Alex or Jack. Even if you can score more a few more points with them on the court, it doesn't matter because they weren't as good defensively as 'Ques or Javin.

4 - "Players without as much natural talent need to learn to play within a system on both ends of the floor."
-The best players are going to play. If you have an NBA-capable player, and you sacrifice some of his playing time in favor of developing his replacement or force him into a system, it gets harder to recruit. Look no further than what the author says later: "Little, once projected as a top-five pick, will be lucky to sneak into the lottery, and his fate will be used against the Tar Heels in future recruiting battles."
-This is the alternative, and the author contradicts his entire article here. His point is that Duke doesn't develop players and they lost because of it, but look what happens when you try to force a player with NBA potential into a supporting, developmental role: they leave regardless. Your alternative is to recruit and be like every other college team out there. The point is, there is no guaranteed path to winning a title. We've had young, incredible talent and lost, and we've had senior, less-talented teams who have won.

5 - "This has been the least successful of any era of Duke basketball since he took over in Durham, and a coach obsessed with legacy will be remembered by a generation of fans as someone who never got the most out of his players."
-That's a joke, right? No one can reasonably judge Coach K's 40 year career over the past few seasons (which have been fantastic by any standard) and claim he never got the most out of his players because Zion didn't win a title. Over the past ten seasons, we've had two national titles, three elite 8's, two sweet sixteens, and 3 early tournament exits. That's pretty damn good. Two of his former players were coaches in the damn tournament even, and most years it could be four or five (Brey, Collins, and Capel).

I read it somewhere on this very board, I think in the middle of last season, that "expectation breeds disappointment." We all have high hopes for our team, especially when we have great players on it. This year they were higher than most. But March Madness is cruel. Was it K's best coaching job ever? Maybe not, but to say he never gets the most out of his players is willful ignorance.

Oh my God! You actually made sense! What will the sad Duke fans think of this?
 
Agree, but I think this team with Rj and Zion and the defensive abilities of other players could have been good enough to not have a game go to the last minute ion the tournament. Not easy, no question. I just have no clue why we walked the ball up and allowed for lower scoring games. We pushed it more in the ACC with 3 games in a row.

I absolutely agree. Since UNC 1 we stopped pushing the ball. It made us “normal.” We were still one of the most talented teams, but we weren’t playing to our strengths.

You make a 4 star Michelin pastry chef fix you a dinner on a charcoal grill and I’m sure it will be good, but it wouldn’t be what that person is typically capable of.

So for whatever reason K had, that’s what we did. We’ll never know why, but it happened. Oh well.
 
All three pages of this post titled "Hard Hitting" could have been shortened to one page if everyone would have used the one logical and main fact that hurt us all season. We were an awful shooting team with the exception of Zions dunks and his drives to the basket. This also was our mo for free throws. The boys just couldn't shoot the ball well.
 
Funny isnt it? We win by 1 Sunday and the narrative changes entirely. I sure hope ol Roy is getting slammed on THR as bad or worse than K is here. He lost by close to 20, failed to make the elite 8 (didnt get out of 1st weekend last yr), and his team wasnt ACC CHAMPIONS.

OFC

And Roy had all of that talented experience, something analyst say you need in March.
 
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I think most people here forget that half of the coaching gig is...…..recruiting.

You want a great coach who can't recruit? Go be a Florida Gator fan. Duke AD's son, Mike White, is a heck of a ball coach. Respect the guy tremendously. Has done a great job with the talent he has, just can't seem to land many (any) blue chippers. They've made it out of the first weekend once in the last 5 years (since he took over), including missing the tournament altogether twice.
He actually has a pg and Sg coming in this year and both played in the McDonalds game and I think Precious the C is considering them as well.
 
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Yes, the team that was supposed to utterly annihilate anyone and everyone. Like I said, Tatum and Kennard were the two most selfish guys I've ever seen put on a Duke jersey. They couldn't be bothered to play any defense, and never met a stupid jumper they didn't like.

But how was it a "small miracle" they made the tournament?
 
all this talk about a poor shooting team and we shot better from the field and from 3 point than MSU - but still lost.

I guess Izzo is a cruddy coach then too!

i think the biggest issue in the NCAA was not having a reliable bench option that could come in the game - play good defense and score the basketball.

In '18 and ''15 the issue was defense. ell this team played pretty solid defense all year long.
 
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