Goldwire's potential valuable freshman role:
http://www.dukeblogger.com/is-jordan-goldwire-dukes-forgotten-arm/
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http://www.dukeblogger.com/is-jordan-goldwire-dukes-forgotten-arm/
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Compelling case for Jordan Goldwire
- Thread starter hart2chesson
- Start date
Jordan has bulldog spirit but will be in over his head this year. I'm looking for some 3-4 minute appearances with no forcing it and great D.
He may not get any game time at all, but I would love to see him in for a couple minutes a half. I just don't see how it will hurt, it can only be a positive, plus guarding Duval and Allen in practices will only help long term, unless in the games he can't dribble the ball up court or doesn't know who to guard.
Some of the old farts will remember the 78 team.Everyone was going crazy about us getting Gene Banks. There was another recruit in that class that was supposed to be a wasted scholly.His hometown sports editor bet that he would not score 100 points
in his career.Kenny Dennard fooled everyone.Not saying he is as good as Kenny but it would be nice for him to have a similar impact
in his career.Kenny Dennard fooled everyone.Not saying he is as good as Kenny but it would be nice for him to have a similar impact
The thing is he may not average a minute a game next year bit he knows that and still wants to come to Duke. He knows that more than likely we will sign an elite pg next year and the year after that if necessary. The thing is to me is we need players like him each and every year. He will get better each year and will give whoever is the starting pg a little work in practices. By the time he is a junior or senior he will be giving us some really big time minutes and will be a big part of the team and who knows he could blow up and mature faster than we thought and contribute soon. Even when Duval committed I was excited about getting this "3" star pg. Let's be good Duke fans and let him develop. OFC
I thought the blog by Brian Horace was very well done and thought out. He's obviously quite familiar w/Jordan and his style of play.
Personally would love to see Jordan develop to where he could spell Trevon couple mins 1st half at PG, and we leave GA in his natural position....
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Personally would love to see Jordan develop to where he could spell Trevon couple mins 1st half at PG, and we leave GA in his natural position....
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The only scenario I see Jordan getting minutes next year is if he's a lock down defender. If so, sure give him limited spot minutes for foul trouble or a very quick breather. That is the extent of it and we all need to accept it before we to next year and everyone starts crying for him to play.
I don't think people are implying he can't dribble or knows who to guard. That's being a tad bit disingenuous.
I hope Jordan develops into a solid player at Duke, and I'd be surprised if he's not by his junior or senior season (assuming he sticks it out). But looking at next season's roster, I just see better options than him right now. We already can assume Trevon will play 30+ minutes/game, with that number likely in the 35-range. And, while clearly Grayson is much better off the ball, I haven't seen enough from Jordan to suggest he's better than Grayson on the ball. Grayson has led Duke in assists for two consecutive seasons, and his best season at Duke was when the ball was in his hands most of the time (although not in the traditional point guard role). Again, I firmly believe he's best with a true point guard playing next to him, but that doesn't mean he's not effective at point guard in spurts. Those spurts, IMO, will largely come when Trevon is resting.
I think it's human nature for fans to want the kid they know the least about to be playing. He's an unknown product. I mean, let's just look at the last handful of years. In 2009, it was Miles who should have been playing more. In 2012, it was Quinn. Heck, some of the same people who wanted him playing 15 to 20 minutes per game this past season, thought K was missing the boat by having a great shooter like Matt Jones rot away on the bench. And, well, I don't have to tell you about this past season.
I'm all for K playing a deeper bench and I do think he made mistakes there this past season....we should have been deeper and better. But 2016-17 was a sucker punch to the face for the program, the staff and fans. The built-in hype followed by what we saw and had to deal with made it even worse.
I'm not saying anything about people's opinion of Goldwire, and wasn't being disingenuous. Even though I haven't seen him play, I'm hopefully optimistic that he can develop as a player, and what better way than in games. Yes Grayson is better than him, and you're probably right that he will probably run point while Duval gets a breather.
My comments are of my opinion that game action is better than practice, and if he does ok in practice, then throwing a bone to him will further his confidence, which will help his development. With more inexperienced talent than veterans I think he could help, that's all.
Other than Allen, we are all speculating on how good the rest of the talent will do.
With all due respect I dont think the previous poster was being "disingenuous," I think he probably meant dribbling upcourt vs backcourt pressure, which can be quite an adjustment for any ACC rookie.
I too like the idea of "throwing Jordan a bone," if he merits opportunity in practice and giving him couple mins at PG in games. Sure Grayson will probably get the nod and we know he's capable, but he's just so much more effective off the ball.
Maybe this blogger, Brian Horace knows something more than all of us....Certainly seems familiar w/the kid and makes me more and more secure we got him....
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if he comes in and earns playing time im all for it. if he can play 4 mins a half at the point that keeps duval to 32 mins a game. keeps grayson from having to run point.
I'd like to think Goldwire will have a similar Duke career as Tyler Thornton. Thornton was also a 3-star guy (was nationally rated though, unlike Goldwire) but he got better every year.
Thornton barely played as a freshman (wouldn't have played at all if Kyrie stayed healthy) and it was obvious defense was Thornton's calling card.
If Goldwire has a similar career arch as Thornton, I'd take that. Especially if he becomes even 90% of the defender Thornton was.
Thornton barely played as a freshman (wouldn't have played at all if Kyrie stayed healthy) and it was obvious defense was Thornton's calling card.
If Goldwire has a similar career arch as Thornton, I'd take that. Especially if he becomes even 90% of the defender Thornton was.
If he has a career similar to Tyler Thornton, he'll get plenty of PT. I think Goldwire's defense while good is probably not at Thornton's level yet, but he will bring a better overall game and has better handles, and better passer. In fact speaking of Thornton, I kind of see Jordan as a Derryck Thornton in progress....
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True and Thornton did see a lot of PT later in his career. However the 2013 and 2014 teams weren't very deep and definitely weren't our most talented. I'd hope that our future teams will all be very talented and deep (why not with our recruiting lately) so I'd say it's very debatable if Goldwire will ever play a role as crucial as what Thornton once played.
I agree w/that assessment. I know we were at a disadvantage offensively when Tyler and Josh started together. I agree w/you, I only meant from the standpoint of comparison, because we simply get better players now...(as you noted).
It all depends on his development in practices against the best pg prospect in the country. I bet the two really go at it, and thats a good thing! OFC
He explained himself. One of the things about message boards is we can only imply tone....sometimes we're right and sometimes we're wrong. I'm glad I was wrong in this instance.
I'm not big on "trowing guys a bone" if they're not ready. I think Jordan is going to have a steep learning curve coming in to the best conference in college basketball next season. I'd love to be wrong, though.
And as I acknowledged, of course Grayson is better off the ball. We all know that. But that's not to say he isn't more prepared to take those limited minutes from Trevon. After all, Grayson has been pretty good at times in the point guard role, as well. K traditionally plays the guys he thinks give him the best chance to win. Knowing what we do know about Grayson and what we don't know about Jordan leads me to believe Grayson will handle those minutes more effectively.
I feel like I certainly have a better understanding of Jordan's game after reading the column....
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Hopefully Goldwire comes in and can get some minutes. If he is good enough to get minutes we should be a favorite. That would be two pure point guards. One come of the floor and sub another right in there. Grayson doesn't need to be point man at all. Let him be a secondary playmaker. His defense isn't good enough to play the opposing point guard. Let Grayson worry about scoring IF Goldwire is formidable like we've seen on his film
I don't understand why we keep on analyzing Jordan. How many threads is this about him now. I think everyone of us has gotten our point across about his abilities and potential. I'm just happy we have him. We need some new threads to discuss. It's off season and surely we can find some off the wall stuff to discuss just no politics please. OFC
You're one of the veterans Sky, start something. Lead the way Ol noble wizard of the keyboard
Jordan will get meaningful minutes this year. As aggressive as Duval plays and the way games are called in ACC play I can see Duval getting into foul trouble in some games and Jordan having to pilot the ship
Like most everyone else here I want to see this young man in a Duke uniform performing at a high level. Is Goldwire a "diamond in the rough"? Is there something super special the staff sees in him? It adds an aura of excitement for sure!
However I really think unless he proves to be a lock down defender that Allen will get the back up minutes at point barring foul trouble or injury this year. Like others I agree that I would MUCH rather Grayson play the 2 but K trusts his seniors. They are a known commodity.
Time will tell. It continues to be an exciting time to be a Duke fan. We really are blessed to have these types of things to debate!
Alan
However I really think unless he proves to be a lock down defender that Allen will get the back up minutes at point barring foul trouble or injury this year. Like others I agree that I would MUCH rather Grayson play the 2 but K trusts his seniors. They are a known commodity.
Time will tell. It continues to be an exciting time to be a Duke fan. We really are blessed to have these types of things to debate!
Alan
Let's just temper expectations like last year taught us. We've had 4 and 5 star recruits who were better than him sit the pine, and they've been at positions of need. The case for him to play has been built and it all makes sense. But if you've seen 12 Angry Men, you know sometimes the best case isn't always the correct one. We'll see what plays out.
Grayson is going to play 30+ minutes/game off the ball....at most we would be talking about five to six minutes a game for him playing point guard. Having watched Grayson now for three full seasons I'm comfortable with that.
Like most everyone else here I want to see this young man in a Duke uniform performing at a high level. Is Goldwire a "diamond in the rough"? Is there something super special the staff sees in him? It adds an aura of excitement for sure!
However I really think unless he proves to be a lock down defender that Allen will get the back up minutes at point barring foul trouble or injury this year. Like others I agree that I would MUCH rather Grayson play the 2 but K trusts his seniors. They are a known commodity.
Time will tell. It continues to be an exciting time to be a Duke fan. We really are blessed to have these types of things to debate!
Alan
Alan I like your enthusiasm! Yes "it continues to be an exciting time to be a Blue Devil fan, and we are truly blessed to have these types of things to debate." Like most I would love to see Jordan develop early on, and K could steal some minutes with him next yr at PG. I am not talking about huge minutes, I mean more like putting him in at the 10 minute mark 1st half, to give Tre an extra breather before the under 8 timeout. K's a master at using his bench that way. Germantondevil made a good point about potential foul trouble too.
K will make the right call, and I do think the additional 10 practices we get prior to our foreign trip this summer will be a big boost to our freshmen and all of our less experienced players(which is most of our roster)....
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