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Can a Game This Early Mean Something?

youngman42

Devils Illustrated Hall of Famer
Jan 27, 2003
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In most cases, no. And, in many respects, this game really doesn't mean a lot relative to games that loom later in the season with significantly higher stakes.

However, I think this could turn out to be a very meaningful game for several reasons.

1. Of course, the performance by Grayson Allen was as spectacular a game as anyone at Duke has had - JJ-esque ... but better. Reminded me of Reddick in a big December game in '04 against Texas in his senior season. Except this was better against a better defensive team. Has to give Allen some great confidence. If he can continue to play to his abilities Duke will be in great shape.

2. Connected to the first, is that while surely his younger teammates already respected Allen as a player/teammate and leader, when you put your team on your shoulders like that in a big, competitive game, one that counts, that raises the level of respect as a leader you will listen to on the court.

3. Zone the entire game? Whaaaat? Of course, K has employed zone here or there, but I don't remember that degree of commitment to it; and, it was probably one of the better zones we've played. The zone for this team allows them to fast break on a missed shot or or steal and I think it also plays into Duke's length and quickness in jumping the passing lanes. Evidence 12 steals, including 6 by Duval and 3 by DeLaurier. This also shows K's willingness to adjust to players.

4. What may be the most significant feature of this game, is how the young Duke team went against an older, mentally and physically tough MSU team. I felt through most of the 2nd half, this game was going to come down to mental and physical toughness and for a few minutes it looked like MSU's physicality was going to eventually win out. But, of course, Allen. Nevertheless, there was significant mental fortitude by all the young guys. Without Allen they would have lost. However, I think that they held their own, especially with Bagley out. Win or lose, I think that they would have demonstrated this to themselves. So, a great learning experience. Couple of thoughts on other players:

* Wendell Carter doesn't look bulked up, but he plays like he has a lot of bulk. That dude just knows how to rebound, plays tough, is not intimidated, and doesn't quit. Loved watching him play and he is a player I wish we could see for 2-3 seasons because of the way he plays.

* Trevin Duval ... if had a decent 3 point shot, he might be the best freshmen in the country even over Bagley or Jackson. Every other part of his game is that good.

The one thing they can't do is let up. This is a great test and gives them both confidence and some good lessons about what it will take to win in March - which means they will have to build on this game and grow in their mental and physical toughness.
 
Great post, @youngman42.

IMO early season games don’t scream NCAA champ, but they can dictate how you practice. That is very important. You get a good look at where your team is when it comes to defensive rotations, quick hitters on O, etc.

What a game like this does for Duke, is allow the staff to get good competitive tape to look at and show the players where they faltered and where they hit their stride. You then compare that against what they did against Elon and UVU and see what habits are starting to form, good and bad.

A good competitive showing in November can show you if you can start working things from December or if you’re still back in October.
 
In most cases, no. And, in many respects, this game really doesn't mean a lot relative to games that loom later in the season with significantly higher stakes.

However, I think this could turn out to be a very meaningful game for several reasons.

1. Of course, the performance by Grayson Allen was as spectacular a game as anyone at Duke has had - JJ-esque ... but better. Reminded me of Reddick in a big December game in '04 against Texas in his senior season. Except this was better against a better defensive team. Has to give Allen some great confidence. If he can continue to play to his abilities Duke will be in great shape.

2. Connected to the first, is that while surely his younger teammates already respected Allen as a player/teammate and leader, when you put your team on your shoulders like that in a big, competitive game, one that counts, that raises the level of respect as a leader you will listen to on the court.

3. Zone the entire game? Whaaaat? Of course, K has employed zone here or there, but I don't remember that degree of commitment to it; and, it was probably one of the better zones we've played. The zone for this team allows them to fast break on a missed shot or or steal and I think it also plays into Duke's length and quickness in jumping the passing lanes. Evidence 12 steals, including 6 by Duval and 3 by DeLaurier. This also shows K's willingness to adjust to players.

4. What may be the most significant feature of this game, is how the young Duke team went against an older, mentally and physically tough MSU team. I felt through most of the 2nd half, this game was going to come down to mental and physical toughness and for a few minutes it looked like MSU's physicality was going to eventually win out. But, of course, Allen. Nevertheless, there was significant mental fortitude by all the young guys. Without Allen they would have lost. However, I think that they held their own, especially with Bagley out. Win or lose, I think that they would have demonstrated this to themselves. So, a great learning experience. Couple of thoughts on other players:

* Wendell Carter doesn't look bulked up, but he plays like he has a lot of bulk. That dude just knows how to rebound, plays tough, is not intimidated, and doesn't quit. Loved watching him play and he is a player I wish we could see for 2-3 seasons because of the way he plays.

* Trevin Duval ... if had a decent 3 point shot, he might be the best freshmen in the country even over Bagley or Jackson. Every other part of his game is that good.

The one thing they can't do is let up. This is a great test and gives them both confidence and some good lessons about what it will take to win in March - which means they will have to build on this game and grow in their mental and physical toughness.

#4 spot on. Great night for the team.
 
It always means "something", certainly in terms of NCAA seeding and just to gauge where your team is at against a formidable foe so early in the season. That aside, had Duke lost last night it would not have been that big a deal. And it's not for KY either, they fared very well against a more experienced Kansas team.

I'll tell you one thing though, I don't wave pom pom's that easily but this Duke team, the way that it is built is a very very dangerous team. There's a stud player at every position and they are loaded with size, length and good athletes. Duval gives Duke the point guard they didn't have last year and if that kid could only shoot, he'd be near unstoppable. Right now his shot is his biggest weakness and yet he was still so impressive last night. Duke has size like they have not had since 2009-2010. K was wise to zone with that length he had and Duke dominated the glass against a Tom Izzo team that always likes to pride itself on beating people on the glass.

Gonna be one hell of a season for Duke fans as long as injuries don't interfere.
 
We knew what Grayson was capable of but that darn Duval is something special. I’m starting to believe these NBA scouts suck at their jobs. If Tre doesn’t look like someone who can run a team then there’s no such thing as a true pg. That dude makes great passes, takes care of the ball and knows when he should attack the basket. If he could hit a few jumpers a game he will be unstoppable
 
The thing that has surprised me the most is K’s willingness to change things up this year..

Playing a lot of zone, feeding the post, and using 10 players in a close game.. those are all things I don’t remember seeing in recent years.
 
Your last paragraph you state, "the one thing they can't do is let up" are you being serious? I'm fairly certain the players and coaches know that we've only played 3 games. Why would they let up lol this isn't youth league hoops.
 
The biggest point to me is the confidence boost.

I look back at 2015. Early season we went into Wisconsin and beat them. YES I know teams change and develop a LOT over the course of a 4 month season for various reasons; experience, individual player development, team synergy, rotations, injuries, even player dismissals. But you cannot tell me that when we were down double digits in the second half of the national championship game that the players weren't thinking "we beat these guys on their own floor, we can beat them again."

That to me is why a win in a game like last night means so much. It's not about the W-L record or about the national rankings.

JMHO

Alan
 
This reminds of win at Wiscy, interesting to see how team reacts in tourney environment. Without Bags playing & still winning is impressive.
 
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Your last paragraph you state, "the one thing they can't do is let up" are you being serious? I'm fairly certain the players and coaches know that we've only played 3 games. Why would they let up lol this isn't youth league hoops.

You're on a roll with seriously condescending posts the past two days. Someone must of stole your lunch money but you don't have to come take it out on us and the keyboard man. Also he compared JJ with Grayson where's the race card???
 
Yes this game meant something. It was a battle against a top ranked team that is one of the most physical teams in the country. Like I said earlier, we only had 1 guy before 7:00 last night that has been through some wars on the court. Duval, Trent and Carter all got a severe taste of playing man ball, and now they know what it will take come March, as long as they listen to K, which I think they will.
 
You're on a roll with seriously condescending posts the past two days. Someone must of stole your lunch money but you don't have to come take it out on us and the keyboard man. Also he compared JJ with Grayson where's the race card???
Yeah you are probably right. Just get tired of the same rhetoric. Compare white players to white players.... "don't let up now" after 3 games into the season, etc. But I'm also able to concede that I need to take a step back. Go Duke!
 
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Yeah you are probably right. Just get tired of the same rhetoric. Compare white players to white players.... "don't let up now" after 3 games into the season, etc. But I'm also able to concede that I need to take a step back. Go Duke!
It's natural to compare kids that are same race to one another. No big deal, and it's just a posters hope that there is no let up. Again no big deal.
Appreciate you admitting that you need to step back. Let's all enjoy this season, we all think it can be really good.
 
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Your last paragraph you state, "the one thing they can't do is let up" are you being serious? I'm fairly certain the players and coaches know that we've only played 3 games. Why would they let up lol this isn't youth league hoops.

You probably haven't had much experience watching freshmen (even at Duke in the past) play CBB.

Young players, regardless of the coach, can sometimes get it in their heads that they can walk out on the court and beat anyone. In fact, that happens in NBA games (I've heard Kerr say that about Golden State), when guys are much more mature.

And, it's not just about not trying, but they will have to get better by tourney time because teams like MSU and others will. That's always a challenge with young teams that get a big win early in the season. You start believing the hype.
 
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Yeah you are probably right. Just get tired of the same rhetoric. Compare white players to white players.... "don't let up now" after 3 games into the season, etc. But I'm also able to concede that I need to take a step back. Go Duke!

To which player in Duke history in the last decade do you compare a great three point shooting G who is 6'4, like Allen? Which is the best comparison for the way he played last night? Name one better than Reddick for that comparison. I've been a fan of Duke since 1978 and watching them closely since the early 80's.
 
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It means we beat the 2nd best team without our best interior player. It also confirms the fact that we are a ridiculously loaded TEAM and not just a bunch of talented basketball players.
 
It also means we're less likely to see black unis in our next road game. Seems like we typically play 5 straight road games in black unis immediately after a loss in the royal blue.
 
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It also means we're less likely to see black unis in our next road game. Seems like we typically play 5 straight road games in black unis immediately after a loss in the royal blue.

I think we will wear the black against Indiana. Or maybe not. We only wear them when we respect a team
 
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