Alex????
- Thread starter hart2chesson
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I think this year he's on an ultra-talented team that has a ton of versatility. Most of our guys can play multiple positions or positionless if you prefer and can affect the game multiple ways on both ends of the floor. AOC is not a great defender and is primarily a shooter on offense who is also basically locked in at SG. It's just hard to find him minutes on a team this talented with this amount of positional versatility.
A zone team is a great time to find your shot as long as you can shoot in rhythm.
Early this year, Clemson benched a very good, very successful, and very experienced QB in favor of a uber talented frosh. This was especially surprising given that Clemson had a tremendous defensive line, full of guys who are likely to declare for the upcoming NFL draft (many have indeed done just this). Now, there are a variety of valid reasons why Clemson did this, and indeed the move paid off with a title.
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One of the main reasons that Clemson made the move was that the frosh QB is so good that he's all but certain to declare for the 2021 NFL draft after his junior year. Part of the reason that Clemson made the move was that they wanted to get him on the field as much as possible while he was at Clemson. Sure, he had more upside than Bryant, the incumbent, but there was a decent chance that Bryant offered a better chance to win THIS year (turned out not to necessarily be the case). Given that thinking, and the likelihood of losing those DL studs, the safe thinking was to start Bryant this year.
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With AOC, some of the same factors are in play. He is simply behind much, much better players at his position. And most of them won't be in school for very long. AOC basically backs up RJ and Cam. He can't really play PG, and he can't play PF. Pretty much SG only, though he could play some SF in a pinch.
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Only, it doesn't make much sense to take Cam or RJ out of the game. They are OAD players, barring extraordinary circumstances. Why not play them 35+ mpg? We are getting them for 1 year, and playing them as much as possible now offers us the best chance to win in March during the only year they'll be here.
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I bet K would love to get AOC 15+ mpg this year to get him ready for next year, when, frankly, we'll need AOC to play at an all Conf level (not necessarily first team, but we'll need him to be a top tier starter). But not at the expense of taking out one of Cam or RJ unnecessarily.
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That said, expect to see AOC more in blowouts (possibly tonight), and less in tightly contested games. Further, even in blowouts, don't expect AOC to play the way rotation guys usually play in blowouts wherein they try to get the benchwarmers looks and shots. AOC will hunt his own shot, which will help for the future.
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We think we appreciate how good this roster is, but we don't. In 10 years we might better understand how fortunate we are. K probably has a much better understanding of how good this roster could be. He's going to ride this group of frosh as much as possible, because they won't be here long.
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One of the main reasons that Clemson made the move was that the frosh QB is so good that he's all but certain to declare for the 2021 NFL draft after his junior year. Part of the reason that Clemson made the move was that they wanted to get him on the field as much as possible while he was at Clemson. Sure, he had more upside than Bryant, the incumbent, but there was a decent chance that Bryant offered a better chance to win THIS year (turned out not to necessarily be the case). Given that thinking, and the likelihood of losing those DL studs, the safe thinking was to start Bryant this year.
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With AOC, some of the same factors are in play. He is simply behind much, much better players at his position. And most of them won't be in school for very long. AOC basically backs up RJ and Cam. He can't really play PG, and he can't play PF. Pretty much SG only, though he could play some SF in a pinch.
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Only, it doesn't make much sense to take Cam or RJ out of the game. They are OAD players, barring extraordinary circumstances. Why not play them 35+ mpg? We are getting them for 1 year, and playing them as much as possible now offers us the best chance to win in March during the only year they'll be here.
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I bet K would love to get AOC 15+ mpg this year to get him ready for next year, when, frankly, we'll need AOC to play at an all Conf level (not necessarily first team, but we'll need him to be a top tier starter). But not at the expense of taking out one of Cam or RJ unnecessarily.
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That said, expect to see AOC more in blowouts (possibly tonight), and less in tightly contested games. Further, even in blowouts, don't expect AOC to play the way rotation guys usually play in blowouts wherein they try to get the benchwarmers looks and shots. AOC will hunt his own shot, which will help for the future.
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We think we appreciate how good this roster is, but we don't. In 10 years we might better understand how fortunate we are. K probably has a much better understanding of how good this roster could be. He's going to ride this group of frosh as much as possible, because they won't be here long.
Everyone appreciates this team, but we all know what must happen for this team to be what we think they are already, and that’s cutting down the nets in April.
I don't think we appreciate it enough. When our big 3 are at the peak of the pro careers, we'll look back and realize that this might have been the greatest collection of talent on a college roster since maybe the UCLA dynasty.
C & D. Coming into the season I felt like he was going to have to be a serviceable defender and nail corner 3s for us to have a great year. Really expected him to be the X factor in those areas. Instead Jack is a monster defender/rebounder and lethal from the corner 3. With Jack playing that role, there just isn't as good of a fit for AOC this year, but I have high expectations for him in the future when we need a different set of puzzle pieces
D, but add Tre, RJ, Cam, and Zion, as well.
We started 3 (pure) guards last year. Alex was most often the guy who came in for any one of them. This year we have 4 guys in the starting line-up plus a much improved and more versatile Jack who cover all the things Alex does. Tre or RJ runs point; RJ, Cam, Zion, and Jack are on the wings; Zion and Jack are the default 4 in a lot of line-ups. I'm sure this year's Alex is better than last year's Alex, but the team around him is different: there isn't so wide-open an opportunity for him to slide into (let's not forget a lot of us were surprised at how much he played last year), and even with improvement he just doesn't create his own place in the rotation.
We started 3 (pure) guards last year. Alex was most often the guy who came in for any one of them. This year we have 4 guys in the starting line-up plus a much improved and more versatile Jack who cover all the things Alex does. Tre or RJ runs point; RJ, Cam, Zion, and Jack are on the wings; Zion and Jack are the default 4 in a lot of line-ups. I'm sure this year's Alex is better than last year's Alex, but the team around him is different: there isn't so wide-open an opportunity for him to slide into (let's not forget a lot of us were surprised at how much he played last year), and even with improvement he just doesn't create his own place in the rotation.
Now as I revisit this thread a couple weeks later, I see Alex gradually making more progress. I would point to the Syracuse game (16 pts off the bench which nearly helped us pull off a miraculous win against tough odds) and 4 timely points yesterday in a 2nd half surge vs Georgia Tech.
Add the slumps of Jack and Javin, and fact we're going to undoubtedly see mostly zone rest of year and I think Alex deserves a more meaningful role. The kid clearly needs EXTENDED MINUTES to flourish, and the earlier mentioned games proved it.
K says Alex also has exhibited better play in practice. K is the BEST w/o question, (did that turnaround timeout in the early 2nd half prove it or what?) and I feel Alex will see more PT....In fact I think the 6th man role could be back up for grabs and we clearly need more options offensively going forward. Do we have any choice to not move AOC up in rotation at this point?
Add the slumps of Jack and Javin, and fact we're going to undoubtedly see mostly zone rest of year and I think Alex deserves a more meaningful role. The kid clearly needs EXTENDED MINUTES to flourish, and the earlier mentioned games proved it.
K says Alex also has exhibited better play in practice. K is the BEST w/o question, (did that turnaround timeout in the early 2nd half prove it or what?) and I feel Alex will see more PT....In fact I think the 6th man role could be back up for grabs and we clearly need more options offensively going forward. Do we have any choice to not move AOC up in rotation at this point?
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As we saw yesterday, as his hair styling stabilizes, so will his game. Yesterday was a step in the right direction.
Alex is our best shooter. Jack is in a slump, we don’t know which Cam will show up offensively, Javin looks like he hasn’t ever played the game, and Goldwire is not going to play much at all.
So unless JJ suddenly reappears on our bench, Alex is our best guy available to give help to our starters, RJ and Zion in particular.
We know his defense isn’t great. But what he can bring to the table on offense outweighs that.
So unless JJ suddenly reappears on our bench, Alex is our best guy available to give help to our starters, RJ and Zion in particular.
We know his defense isn’t great. But what he can bring to the table on offense outweighs that.
I think we roll with a 7 man rotation of Jack, Alex, and Bolden (depending on match ups). I like Javin, but he's just not giving us much.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. In the 2 games between Syracuse and GT, Alex played a total of 8 minutes (w/ each being fewer than in any other ACC game so far) and scored 0. He will see more minutes against zones, at least until Jack's stroke returns. That represents more definition of his role than anything we've seen so far this year, and that's good, but he isn't at a point where he controls his own destiny -- the match-up still dictates his PT.
I want to see him earning minutes while Jack and Javin are playing well. That makes us a solid 8.
I want to see him earning minutes while Jack and Javin are playing well. That makes us a solid 8.
I hope you're right, Javin just seems to have the least amount of confidence. I hope he can work his way out, but I have my doubts.
I think theres almost no doubt AOC sees more minutes against zones. K has no other choice after redshirting Joey Baker.We know Javin cant shoot even a 10 footer, and Jack seems to sadly have convinced himself the ball is not going in. Hopefully Jack gets his mojo back, his offensive contributions were valuable.
Bottom line is we will need Jack, Javin, and Alex this year. We were a little spoiled when Jack was playing like a 6th starter. Obviously, if he gets back to that level, we need less from Alex and Jav because he can play on the wing and at the 4. Even so, the Cuse game proved that we need Alex and Javin to contribute when the matchup dictates one or the other.
Jack is one of my favorite players so I hope he gets his mojo back. He's still playing hard but his rebounding has taken a dip as well. Sure he'll bounce back like a wallaby.
I think we'll see more Vrank, and less Javin, in games where the opposing bigs play like traditional bigs. IE patrolling the low post and rarely venturing to the perimeter on offense. In those situations, Vrank will simply be more useful than Jav. Conversely, vs a team where the opposing bigs play more like face up PFs, like Gonzaga, or ND on Monday, spending more time on the perimeter, we'll see more Jav. Heck, Jav will probably take some of Bolden's minutes. Bolden hedges on screens and recovers on D like a BOSS, but he's just ill equipped to chase around a mobile, PF sized player who can stroke perimeter 3s. We'll need both types and styles of play this year.
Having a guy like Vrank is a luxury most teams don't have. I'd like to see him get a few minutes a game, just to wear the other team down.
Again, vs less mobile bigs. Vrank will be too ineffective vs Mobile bigs to help more than he'd ultimately hurt. He'd give up too many easy looks vs a mobile opponent.
Given the way Javin's play has fallen off, I think you're more likely to see Zion slide over to "5" to cover these type of players and going very small with AOC/Jack plus the 4 freshmen.
I’m predicting a big game from Alex tonight. He cut his hair, he got the ceremonial hug from K. Whatever doghouse he was in he’s out. K knows they need a shooter at times this season. Get Jack and Cam back on track, to go with a confident Alex and we’re in an unbelievable spot to end the year.
Fair enough. I think that if the opposing big is a legit 3pt threat, K won't want to put Z in danger of picking up pointless fouls trying to contest long threes. Jav will be utilized in those situations. Jav's mpg might fall off some, but not completely.
I wonder if starting AOC in Cam’s spot would boost AOC’s confidence and light a fire under Cam..
Starting aoc might help his confidence. But not sure cam needs a fire lit under him. At this point he really is only missing shots. He is doing everything else pretty well.
I will say I wish k would have sat some of our past frosh for effort issues
I don’t think a fire needs to be lit under Cam. It’s not he’s walk-in around loafing not playing defense. The dude is playing his ass off in every other aspect of the game. He just can’t hit a shot.
I think there was a critical aspect of the game last night that took place after the game was no longer in doubt. We were able to get Cam a few consistent looks and he buried them. It may not have meant much on the scoreboard but building that confidence is huge for our team.
Tyus was not a great shooter coming into college but found a ton of confidence along the way and sometimes that is all that is needed. I wouldn’t have bet against a single shot he took late in the year.
Back to last night, Cam giving us something like 10 straight points is big for him, right between the ears, which is where it’s needed most right now.
For all the people thinking he’s hurting our team obviously wasn’t watching during the Syracuse game when they were shredding us down the lane. Cam is a rock solid defender and a more than adequate rebounder. The great thing about this team is that we are shooting 30% from 3 on the year and it doesn’t seem to phase our players or the other aspects of their respective games one bit.
Exactly. You can’t stick his rebounding and defense on the bench, because he’s not shooting well. We’ve had guys in the past where if the shot isn’t falling, he’s hurting the team. Cam ain’t that guy.
Alex's triples last night were so perfect, not sure they even hit the net, just went straight through the center of the hoop.
Here's the deal with Alex....theres gonna be games come March where we need his scoring boost off the bench, I trust him to hit all of his open shots. He needs to get better defensively.
A traditional man-to-man defense (what Duke used to always run) K would always put the "weak-link" on the non-scoring player on the other team. Essentially hiding our defensive weakness on a guy that isn't gonna hurt us. However.....when we switch everything like we do, that doesn't work. Teams are gonna seek out Alex when he is on the floor, and try to beat him 1-on-1, if he can just be average, he will be a net-positive on the floor.
Here's the deal with Alex....theres gonna be games come March where we need his scoring boost off the bench, I trust him to hit all of his open shots. He needs to get better defensively.
A traditional man-to-man defense (what Duke used to always run) K would always put the "weak-link" on the non-scoring player on the other team. Essentially hiding our defensive weakness on a guy that isn't gonna hurt us. However.....when we switch everything like we do, that doesn't work. Teams are gonna seek out Alex when he is on the floor, and try to beat him 1-on-1, if he can just be average, he will be a net-positive on the floor.
I think Alex will be nice and a valuable starter for us down the road, but right now he looks really skittish on the floor. I think it's just nerves, but he gets himself in some bad situations on offense and defense. Right now, he's better served just coming off the bench as a shooter and occasional spark if our 3 ball isn't falling. But if you leave him in too long against legit talent, his deficiencies will become obvious.
I'm hopeful he can become like Kyle Guy from UVA... but a better athlete.
I'm hopeful he can become like Kyle Guy from UVA... but a better athlete.
people say get better defensively, i just dont see him getting abused too often, but just about every game, i see him getting a nice steal or 2.......just needs to work to get open better and take the shot, let it fly
I think Alex’s biggest problem is maturity. He has skill, but sometimes he’s like a 15-16 year old kid.
He needs some of K’s toughness to rub off on to him.
He needs some of K’s toughness to rub off on to him.
Syracuse put him in their pocket. On many recent Duke teams Alex would be getting more minutes because his defense wouldn't be that bad comparatively speaking. On this team, with the defense we play, it is easy for him to get lost on the bench. It will be entirely up to him and his play. He will get spot opportunities to prove himself. If those minutes are positive they will be pop up more often.
It is not an easy role for him or any player. It is tough to prove yourself in limited minutes. You want to do whats best for the team, but you also know that you are coming back out shortly. One thing that is critical is that he must be attentive to details. You can't have a scenario where you come in and don't know how many seconds are left on the shot clock. That just can't happen. Proving yourself in limited minutes is not trying to do too much, but also executing everything within your ability, down to the finest of details. Again not an easy role, but it's his role on this team.
I really like Alex and root for him to do well as soon as he enters the game. He has a beautiful stroke and a nose for the ball, just needs that little extra concentration. He may have the best stroke on the team, and when he starts working to get in a better position to get more looks, watch out, because we all know that Cam is going to find his stroke, it's just a matter of time.
We still have Feb. & the start of Mar., and I really believe that Cam, Alex, and yes, Tre, will become hot at the right time! Just keep watching, you'll see.
Go Duke!
OFC
We still have Feb. & the start of Mar., and I really believe that Cam, Alex, and yes, Tre, will become hot at the right time! Just keep watching, you'll see.
Go Duke!
OFC
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