Anybody else see that?
http://collegespun.com/acc/north-ca...at-they-received-ncaa-allegations-on-april-17
http://collegespun.com/acc/north-ca...at-they-received-ncaa-allegations-on-april-17
Ingram says UNC received Letter Of Allegations from NCAA on the 17th?
- Thread starter SWEc/o95
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I actually just got back from being on the UK board and saw it there. If true, UNC trying to hide it as long as they can...as ususal.
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Yeah Ingram did say that in an ESPNU interview. Here's the clip link:
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=12736816
Still a long way away from the actual reprimands against UNC to be announced though. I feel like 2015-2016 likely will be fine, though if the charges can come out quick enough I suppose there's a chance this team could have a postseason ban - but I find that highly improbable.
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=12736816
Still a long way away from the actual reprimands against UNC to be announced though. I feel like 2015-2016 likely will be fine, though if the charges can come out quick enough I suppose there's a chance this team could have a postseason ban - but I find that highly improbable.
Letter of Allegation? I guess this letter alleges that the athletics people knew about the fraud and steered guys toward it. It's not like hard evidence is going to fall from the sky this late in the game. Players and faculty have said that everyone knew, and likely that is the case, but the NCAA can't make a case on that alone. Certainly the administration and certain departments have been nailed, but I just don't see them getting all the way to the b-ball program. I think Roy and the boys cleverly kept their distance and let middle men handle the fraud. Oh well, it has still hurt them somewhat.
I agree DukeDenver. The basketball program probably deserves some sort of probation but I'm sure the Heels covered their tracks well....and the NCAA knows this. That's why I wouldn't be surprised if they allowed this whole thing to hang over UNC's heads for a little while longer. That way at least they're basketball program is getting something.
Punishment is Roy & Cunningham must attend Coack K clinic to learn correct way to run program.
Football is going to have to be sacrificed for basketball to walk away with no punishment. I just don't see any other way. Its also what UNC should have done a long time ago - admitted to propping up the football team with shady academics, take a multi year punishment in football and then case closed, no more investigation. We would be done talking about this by now.
Ain't like anyone gives two sheets about that nationally-irrelevant , historically lousy-to-mediocre cesspool of a football program anyway...not even unx fans. All this came to light with football and what does unx do? Goes out and hires another scumbag cheater (Chizik) to add to the staff. Geez Louise , nuke 'em back to the Stone Age. No one will ever miss it. I promise. The world will be a better place without it. Miserable eyesore. The "turd in the punchbowl" as its been called.
It would take almost the entire clinic to teach Roy the art of calling a timeout. It's not easy to make a "T" with your hands.....and then....what the hell are you going to talk about for 90 seconds?!?!?!?!? Nanner pudding can only carry a conversation for so long.
With the sanctions received by Syracuse, and based on the severity of issues cited in the Wainstein report, I can't see how the NCAA can get around imposing some kind of serious sanction against UNC that includes the basketball program.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Waintein report also alleges that -- unlike in past reports -- the evidence shows that UNC's no-show class system was expanded and perpetuated to help student athletes. In other words, the fact that non-athletes also benefited from the fraud does not change the fact that these no-show classes were offered to help athletes. Now, I haven't followed this case closely enough to know what facts Wainstein is relying upon to substantiate that kind of allegation -- but, at this point, I don't think it's just an issue of the athletic programs taking advantage of a loophole in the system.
From what I've read, it seems there's more than enough evidence to hit UNC hard for lack of institutional control -- regardless of whether they find an email from Roy endorsing the system. The problem for the NCAA (and what may end up saving UNC) IMO is not a lack of evidence, but line drawing. Here, the classes were so clearly fraudulent and the level of cheating so pervasive and rampant that there's no real way for people in the Athletic Department and the various programs to credibly say that they had no idea about what was going on. However, if the NCAA comes down on UNC here, does that mean athletic programs and coaches are now going to be required to review course syllabuses / student work-product and make determinations as to whether the easy jock classes are rigorous enough to be considered a credible college course? I think that's the problem. Every institution with major athletic programs offer relatively easier courses that cater to athletes (including Duke), and you'd pretty much have to put everyone on probation if you wanted to punish schools for steering their weaker student athletes to those courses. What makes UNC unusual is the extent and breadth of the cheating, not the fact that they are cutting some corners --- i.e., the difference between making student athletes do basically no work (UNC) v. directing student athletes to easy sociology classes where the professor doesn't change the exam, and the athletes have access to copies of the old tests with answers (every other institution in the NCAA). The latter situation is basically impossible to regulate and not as bad as UNC, but not a real college education either.
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I don't think other schools and coaches need to worry or change what they are doing, except notice red flags like: (i) this guy doesn't seem to be very academic or good at school but is taking a lot of independent studies, maybe i ask about that or (ii) this guy is failing every course except he gets A's in X department, maybe I should ask about that. I think thats going to be the take away from this.
Also on the point that Duke or other schools offer easy courses that cater to athletes, I think for the most part (and having taken my fair share of those courses) those easy courses would exist regardless of athletics. Its just athletes have registration priority so they can take up a lot of the seats for courses that otherwise fill up immediately once registration opens.
I am not sure how you police / regulate that. Is the NCAA going to start doing random audits of transcripts for anomalies? We know about what happened at UNC b/c of media investigations, whistelblowers, and internal reports --- but, in most cases, there's no way to possibly get the information needed to investigate and / or punish schools -- i.e., while it's pretty cut and dry here b/c we have so much information about what happened, that will almost never be the case in future examples.
IMO, the NCAA is probably very fearful of another-PSU type situation where it breaks new ground on NCAA oversight into areas they don't possibly have the capacity to regulate. In the PSU situation, the NCAA aggressively sanctioned a football program based on the allegedly criminal inaction of administrators after learning of allegedly heinous crimes by a former employee -- and have been backpeddling from that situation ever since, and have now basically rescinded all the remaining sanctions. While I think everyone at the NCAA knows how bad the UNC situation looks for the entire intercollegiate enterprise, I'm not sure the individual member institutions are supportive of empowering the NCAA with the authority to investigate the quality / legitimacy of education being provided by member institutions to athletes, and the additional authority to sanction member schools when the NCAA finds that the course offerings are not sufficiently rigorous. Before any sanctions come down on UNC, I think the NCAA would have to make a collective decision that (i) the NCAA's mission now includes overseeing the actual legitimacy of the educational progress being reported by member schools; (ii) develop a system for monitoring whether the reported academic progress is actually real. The NCAA knows how to investigate and punish cases of student-athletes cheating the system to stay eligible; but they have no program for overseeing cases of schools building an entirely fraudulent system to keep kids eligible.
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I don't think the NCAA polices that or regularly reviews schools anyways. The whole point of the NCAA model is that schools are supposed to police themselves and self report. I think what will happen is that when an academic issue comes to light and gets reported, an athletic department better not have a bunch of red flags that they should have noticed.
Well, that's only partially true. Schools regularly submit compliance reports where they update the NCAA on a whole variety of issues (ranging from minor recruiting violations, potentially improper benefits, grades, and a host of other areas of NCAA enforcement etc.). As far as I know, unlike most traditional violations, schools do not provide any information about the nature / substance of the courses taken by their athletes, and the NCAA never asks for that kind of information. If the NCAA delves into the UNC situation, then they're going to have come up with a system of oversight on that area as well.
UNC has convened, and a movement toward a resolution is in progress. Plans are to wipe this mess up quickly.
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Once again, ODD simplifies a complex matter with photographic evidence.
Schools have gotten banged by the ncaa in years past for a lot less than what the tarholes are guilty of. Didn't USC or ASU get caught a few years ago for having football players take bogus on line course during the summer. FSU got caught for bogus music classes a few years ago and had to give up something. I don't remember the particulars of those incidents, but, none of the schools had anything approaching 18 years of a school running a whole dept., just to keep athletes, football and basketball players eligible. The tarholes may come out of this smelling like a rose, but , if the NCAA doesn't do anything, then they should never put sanctions on any other school. IF this were ECU or Appy St. they would get clobbered.
I'm not sure about USC / ASU, but the FSU scandal primarily involved academic support staff helping FSU athletes cheat on online classes. Again, IMO, that situation is a lot simpler b/c it involved cheating in what was otherwise a legitimate online class. At UNC, its far more complicated b/c the legitimacy of an entire academic department is being raised in question -- i.e., it's that hundreds of athletes and non-athletes alike were receiving credit for clearly illegitimate classes -- not that the athletes were actually cheating themselves.
Now, don't get me wrong. I think UNC does deserve some type of serious punishment for what happened. My only point here is that I do genuinely think the UNC case is unlike anything that's come before it b/c it calls on the NCAA to not only look at whether students are passing college courses and proceeding to graduation, but to look at whether those college courses have legitimate educational value. If the NCAA comes down hard on UNC, they're going to have start taking a lot of football and basketball programs who are graduating large numbers of kids who leave college unable to read at a high-school grade level.
Roy and the UNC program are trying to the stop the bleeding that's going on with the basketball program. This letter of allegations could burst their bubble. And telling the truth is alien territory to them.
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LOL @ your gif ODD.
Obviously, telling Ingram about the NOA was a last ditch effort for Duke and Coach K.
I mean, Duke and Coach K really don't have anything going for them at the moment. Just coming off a national championship, 1k wins for K, a sweep of UNC, and a bunch of open minutes to replace 4 of the starters that are leaving. Not a lot for Duke to sell Ingram on.
Meanwhile, UNC has nanner pudding, unlimited coca-cola, not a lot of extra playing time, NCAA staff on campus to answer any questions Ingram might have, and no attendance policy for "student"-athletes.
It's a slam dunk for UNC. No wonder K had to resort to lying about the NOA.
Obviously, telling Ingram about the NOA was a last ditch effort for Duke and Coach K.
I mean, Duke and Coach K really don't have anything going for them at the moment. Just coming off a national championship, 1k wins for K, a sweep of UNC, and a bunch of open minutes to replace 4 of the starters that are leaving. Not a lot for Duke to sell Ingram on.
Meanwhile, UNC has nanner pudding, unlimited coca-cola, not a lot of extra playing time, NCAA staff on campus to answer any questions Ingram might have, and no attendance policy for "student"-athletes.
It's a slam dunk for UNC. No wonder K had to resort to lying about the NOA.
As has been noted - I just don't see the NCAA doing a lot to the UNC B-Ball program (though my B-in-law, who received his PHD there and is a fan is all for big penalties, including vacating past NCAA titles, b/c of the academic mess - and when you have respected historian, UNC Prof Harry Stout saying that, that is quite a voice, imo).
But, in some ways I suspect the NCAA looks at UNC like the SEC (securities and exchange) would see some major Wall St. firms ... "too big to fail." If UNC goes down, that could really hurt the whole of CBB and create some serious changes. Given the NBA minor-leagues, the issues of one-and-done, the problems of the NCAA's draconian, unjust, and outdated rules, this could really change the NCAAB landscape for the future.
Unfortunate to say, but GOAT Roy W has been a failure here. He has assistant coaches, other staff, and himself to basically 8-10 guys to look after (the deeper parts of the bench are basically 4 year types who need a real degree - not the NBA). If they can't ensure everything is on the up-and-up and show "institutional control" over that many players with the resources UNC Basketball has at its disposal - then Roy has failed both UNC but also the rest of CBB.
But, in some ways I suspect the NCAA looks at UNC like the SEC (securities and exchange) would see some major Wall St. firms ... "too big to fail." If UNC goes down, that could really hurt the whole of CBB and create some serious changes. Given the NBA minor-leagues, the issues of one-and-done, the problems of the NCAA's draconian, unjust, and outdated rules, this could really change the NCAAB landscape for the future.
Unfortunate to say, but GOAT Roy W has been a failure here. He has assistant coaches, other staff, and himself to basically 8-10 guys to look after (the deeper parts of the bench are basically 4 year types who need a real degree - not the NBA). If they can't ensure everything is on the up-and-up and show "institutional control" over that many players with the resources UNC Basketball has at its disposal - then Roy has failed both UNC but also the rest of CBB.
As far as Ingram - that little interview seems to indicate to me that he is a total UNC lean and just needs to hear a positive word from Roy (arguably the king of BS), and he's going to declare for UNC. Would much rather it be someone like KU if not DUKE.
Unfortunate. He's a perfect fit for Duke (in the Antonio Lang, Grant Hill type mold - with a bit more length). And, while he'll be a force to reckon with at UNC, I don't think Roy will develop him as well.
Unfortunate. He's a perfect fit for Duke (in the Antonio Lang, Grant Hill type mold - with a bit more length). And, while he'll be a force to reckon with at UNC, I don't think Roy will develop him as well.
Interesting as most I talk to seem he thinks to light up some when speaking about Duke as compared to UNC......
From what I've seen Ingram is a great offensive talent, but wow is he skinny. Alarmingly skinny, to paraphrase Doug Gottlieb. I wonder if despite his talent, his stature would be of concern to getting a high draft status next year.
Nevertheless there is a clear spot for him at Duke next year and I hope he chooses wisely on Monday.
Nevertheless there is a clear spot for him at Duke next year and I hope he chooses wisely on Monday.
He's quite young for a HS Sr., let alone a division 1 b-ball prospect (17 yr. 7 months according 247) -- and actually that's true for this entire recruiting class. Amazingly, in fact, DT is the 2nd oldest player in the class (of 5* kids) b/c Chase Jeter is the exact same age to the month as Ingram. The physical immaturity of this class may marginally hurt us on the court next season, but I think that fact will cause NBA teams to look past the weight issues. I remember people discussing that a number of years ago when Shaun Livingston went directly to the NBA instead of attend Duke, and Livingston ended up getting drafted #4 despite being measured at 6'7 186. Obviously, Durant more recently went #2 despite similar concerns (apparently he couldn't even bench 185 once). In the end of the day, I think NBA teams recognize that weight / strength is something that everyone can add -- particularly for a perimeter player who's not being asked to regularly fight guys for position in the paint.
For a frame of reference, top prospects like Skal Labissiere and Ben Simmons are a full year older than both Ingram and Jeter.
I agree, in the mixtapes I've watched he is very, very skinny and I truly am not all that impressed with his athleticism from what you can see in those. So in some ways I'm surprised he is ranked as high as he is. Mixtapes are in no way a great way to assess talent but it's all most of us have to go off of. Thing is, a lot of times you watch them and a guy flashes, like Luke Kennards for instance, but in Ingram I didn't see that. Definitely didn't see a guy I see being OAD, but I'll probably be wrong on that. (Frankly if he comes to Duke I kind of hope NBA execs agree that he isn't OAD)
Forgot to metion Duke has owned UNC dating back to 2010.
For starters, I think the 2015 recruiting class is pretty weak as a whole and Ingram's ranking is partly a reflection on that. ESPN's rankings, for instance, not only include a ranking, but provide a scouting grade that allows you to make comparisons across classes. In the 2014 class, there were 9 kids (including Jahlil & Tyus) who had ratings of 97, and 4 kids who had a rating of 96. By contrast, in 2015, there is literally only 1 kid who gets a 97 rating and 4 kids who get a 96 rating (Ingram being one of those 4). In other words, Ingram's rating would only have put him at around 10-13 if he were in the 2014 class. You see that all the way down the list. Luke Kennard is ostensibly ranked 24 by ESPN, which is nearly identical to Grayson's ranking of 21 last season. But, again, that's misleading b/c Kennard's rating is only an 89, whereas Grayson's rating was a 93. In the 2015 class, a 93 rating gets you ranked at 10 or 11 (Jeter being 11).
Also, my impression from reading scouting evaluations of Ingram's rating is that his ranking is driven by his accuracy as a jump shooter from all spots on the court (which makes him deadly at that height and wingspan). A lot of kids who look like good shooters in mix tapes turn out to actually be pretty inconsistent or mediocre shooters whose highlight package merely spliced out all the makes. In Ingram's case, though, I think he's a genuinely good shooter. Scouts at the McD AA practices were talking about how Ingram basically didn't miss any open shots the entire week. That's not really something you can see in mixtapes, but has a lot to do with his rating.
Not many people can call a timeout while squatting. If Roy can't do it, then who can?
I think Ingram is just looking for a reason to go to UNC,peer pressure from the stackhouse goonies. if that's the case, I don't want him, go to unc son. Duke is going to win with you or without you, it's as simple as that. Go ahead and run the Harry Barnes route, scorn Duke, play for unc, never win a damn thing and take multiple beat downs.
UNC has convened, and a movement toward a resolution is in progress. Plans are to wipe this mess up quickly.
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Keep them coming dirt. You'll gonna get banned again over at THR if not already..Roy and the UNC program are trying to the stop the bleeding that's going on with the basketball program. This letter of allegations could burst their bubble. And telling the truth is alien territory to them.
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